Random Thought of the Day

[Nyctophilia]

Just realised Tori Amos lives in Cornwall. That's totally a place she would live xD I mean she has that British baroque pop vibe.

I think she should collab with Patrick Wolf now that he's making music again because he said in a recent interview that he'd recently learnt to drive and was listening to a bunch of her albums while driving.

He has a lot of songs referencing Cornwall and I think has Cornish roots (also Irish.)







The end of this track is so good it's actually a different track or part of it called The Towans:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHftABiCnKI

Its a wild stretch of land
Such a sad place to be
When the night comes heavy down
And the sands turn to sea

Many saints have lost their love
Many a pilgrim dies unseen
In that wild stretch of land
In that fire to be free

I mean some of their music is very similar I think he deviates more when he gets into the folktronica kind of area of music but I'm not familiar with most of her music just a handful of her songs so I don't know if she has anything like that:



And I guess collabing with someone who is very similar might not be that interesting but anyway.

[Nyctophilia]

The logic here is just ridiculous. If you want to sell your AI product sell your AI product but it's definitely not going to lead to higher rates of reproduction or trad values lol:

Ai Women Are Women™. SeX/acc.
More dangerous than a bear and proud.

edit: just realised not accelerationists again lmfao:



The bear thing in your bio does make you sound like you're motivated by spite.

Women, when we choose to be in the woods with the ai girlfriend instead of you, you need to understand why men would choose ai.

I'm more dangerous than a bear and proud.

Oh no he is OK.

If man declared war on bears in 2 weeks they’d be extinct.

OK the bear thing was dumb but... Are these guys actually sexually threatened by bears now?

That's funny.

Penguins I could understand.

Bugs Bunny I could understand xD (so many directions to take this joke but the penguin thing was because they supposedly are pretty dedicated dads unlike bears. Also the penguins of Madagascar fanart Strange Aeons was talking about in her tumblr sexymen video.)

Pokemon I could understand- OK

This is def age restricted because she was smoking weed in the video (oh no she wasn't I forgot edibles,) smash or pass pokemon edition lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s_rk9M9z8s

^ Lol this video is actually hilarious I forgot how funny it was.

The relationship between women and men is broken. The data shows that. Everyone knows it. The top 20% in the gene pool don't care. Their not caring is genetic warfare. All social action taken against Orifice, all protest, be it in the form of tweet or article or legislation will be gene warfare. Everything comes down to reproduction, and we're going to take non-reproductive sex with human women off the table as a commodity. It's gone. Can't trade money for it. Can't trade a meal for it. You could spend hours contemplating the consequences of that. Good, bad. It's going to end crime. It's going to wipe out job functions. But why? Because sex is about reproduction and everything breaks when you break that. Our roles don't make sense. Our institutions don't make sense. Nothing makes sense. When men stop seeking non-reproductive sex from human women, it's going to lead to an increase in reproductive sex. And it's going to save the world.

Edit: It kind of seems like a more lucid version of Nick Land if Nick Land was doing delusional optimism instead of horror. Like I can imagine this set to some kind of cyberpunk themed music with a robotic voice or something. And I guess that makes sense because it's an /acc account.



Meltdown has a place for you as a schizophrenic HIV+ transsexual chinese-latino stim-addicted LA hooker with implanted mirrorshades and a bad attitude. Blitzed on a polydrug mix of K-nova, synthetic serotonin, and female orgasm analogs, you have just iced three Turing cops with a highly cinematic 9mm automatic.

"The story goes like this: Earth is captured by a technocapital singularity as renaissance rationalitization and oceanic navigation lock into commoditization take-off. Logistically accelerating techno-economic interactivity crumbles social order in auto-sophisticating machine runaway. As markets learn to manufacture intelligence, politics modernizes, upgrades paranoia, and tries to get a grip.

[...]

Neo-China arrives from the future.

It's written in the same tone of voice you know what I mean?

This guy is like a boring reactionary now lol.

"Reactionary Nick Land arrives from the future. Sex is about reproduction we're going to end crime and also buy my sex robot."

It's not going to end crime because the men who engage in crime are mostly trying to get money and/or boost their status in a broken hierarchy or they have other sadistic impulses. This doesn't offer a compelling outlet or competition for someone who is antisocial. Also the female crime rate has been increasing for decades.

What an absurd thing to say lol.

I'm not even against AI sex bots or whatever myself but what kind of utopianist bs is that lol?

Someone else said this:

Sexbots and virtual waifus will lower female sexual market value, which means woman will need to work on themselves and what they bring to the table other than the idea of sex for being the main reason why the man wants a relationship with them. This will mean more trad values.

I don't know if this is the logic he's using but I highly doubt that outcome will happen lol.

Women can just get AI partners and sex bots themselves + have relationships with other women. It's ridiculous to think the outcome of this is going to be increased trad values or an increase in reproduction.

I think it will actually make these guys even less likely to reproduce without surrogacy or artificial wombs because women will start going to sperm banks and they'll all just select like the top rated guys in terms of their career, education background, appearence and so on. So it will be the same as now besides maybe even less guys getting into relationships with real women because the path of least residence for women is probably to find a girlfriend and go to a sperm bank - actually it's to not have kids or relationships at all which a bunch of women are already doing but yeah after that either raise the kid alone or with a woman.

In a world where that technology didn't exist and they still needed to have sex with a guy to get pregnant maybe that would make more sense but they don't so you can't gatekeep anything unless you get all men to stop donating sperm and to not have sex with women. But you would have to do that first.

I mean if by traditional values you mean women will be outcompeted for online sex work sure quite possibly but aside from that nothing is going to change in the way you think.

Once this is perfected, almost no modern women are going to be able to compete. They'll have to learn how to actually provide value to a man and not just be selfish and hateful.

It's not going to happen.

It's just so dumb though lol because everyone in this debate is ignoring that you can also use technology to get an AI boyfriend for some reason and then how is it a threat?

My wife brings a lot to the table.
More than 99% of women.

You can't compete. A talking sex box is not a replacement for women like her, who aim to give as much as they receive, it's a replacement for women like you.

She's going to divorce him eventually (statistically and considering his personality type being very disagreeable it's almost certain - I've looked into the research of what kind of personalities stay in relationships long term and it's not him,) and he's going to be insufferable about it.

Gender role conflict was related to low marital satisfaction and those who had feminine and androgynous gender roles reported more marital satisfaction. Some of the feminine characteristics, which are a combination of complex behavioral and emotional interactions, can enhance the relationships. These results can be used in marital counseling and therapy.

Neuroticism, in particular, seems the key Big Five trait related to low relationship satisfaction and a higher likelihood of getting divorced, whereas high agreeableness and conscientiousness are related to marital stability.

Women want men to want them even if the woman does not want the man. When all of the attention dries up, and you're all fighting over 2% of the male population, you'll be crying for simp attention but you won't get it.

No. That’s a cope. The fatal flaw of feminism is the belief you can rewrite millions of years of psychological evolution because you read some books. Your mental health requires the male gaze. This technology will deny you that.

This really only applies to extroverted exhibitionists.

This guy is pretty funny lol:

That is the nature of being a man. We accept that. You should accept your nature as well. Find someone to reproduce with and extract their resources.
If men can fulfill their biological needs in a cheaper, less toxic and codependent way, they will flourish with the surpluses

'Find someone and extract their resources.' Lol.

Most of men's energy and resources are wasted on the weaker end of this sexual power structure. This removes the biological power imbalance. Despite what your feminist books say, men and women are not equal. Sexual liberation will empower weak men. It will destroy weak women.

Hm I'm getting the sense here from a bunch of people that they think that this will free up men to do something else meaningful but if you're not doing anything now you won't start to do anything meaningful when you have a sex robot. This is sort of like people who argue that without work people will be more creatively productive but that's not how it works for a lot of people who are already in that situation so it's not that simple.

I think the most depressing part of this is that somehow they're not aware of just how much most people can adjust to having essentially nothing. I mean that guy (the one who has som AI product not the funny guy,) is married so wtf does he know. Especially if they start off that way which in this hypothetical future they will. They'll adjust to not having anything.

They're going to grow up creating fanfiction and playing The Sims etc and maybe some will find religion again instead of competing for male attention. Like every nerd in the 2000s and woman in a convent lol.

Oh lol he actually brought up witch covens:

That response is the future of single, childless women. [...] You can start a witch covenant. Celibate girl boss witches.

That sounds fun though. Aellas idea too but only if she's having sex with women other wise I've lost interest:

why do u need a man to approve of your lifestyle if you can use the money u get from whoring to pay nannies and co-parent with a bunch of your female friends? Get some great sperm, embryo select some badasses, live with other slutty ladies in a wealthy commune, it's the dream

sometimes internet ppl say i'll never find a man to commit to me cause i'm promiscuous. Even *if* this were true, men are giving me resources anyway, and I can cleverly use this to have kids with a much higher quality of life than if I were a housewife. win win?

Also the porn joker thread was kinda hot:

society is slowly turning me into the porn joker

the harder u try to shame me the more people i bang

yea watch me go, in my own house bangin ppl i enjoy banging. watch me contribute to the downfall of society. having a great time, a week-long afterglow and affection for my sex partners. by talking about the things i enjoy publicly and without shame im gonna make rome burn

maybe a society that can be sent into angry paroxysms by the fact that i dare to live without shame is a society that *should* burn

maybe i *should* be a threat to your way of life and norms and everything you love. maybe your wives should be happier than they are, maybe they should be sluts too. maybe seeing me having a great time will make them envious. maybe you should have been better at fucking her.

So many classics.

I usually prefer this fantasy the other way around but Aella almost makes me want to be the conservative wife...

Would I actually be into it? I don't know it's just a hot concept in general. I'm attracted to concepts.

Someone make a film about this not a porn film like a decent quality film or a book. I'm certain it exists already I'm just lazy. Who do I want to star in the film also? Hmm... A̶b̶b̶y̶ S̶h̶a̶p̶i̶r̶o̶

Oh right but I was talking about the heterosexuals.

I don't think women should freak out about this though in the way they are on twitter responding to him because it's an interesting experiment from a scientific pov lol and as he said he's going to end crime. Let the man try I guess.

And you don't need people who think like this in the first place.



Lol no but maybe.

I'm kind of mad that I'm never going to be able to hear this mashup live. Imagine how epic that would have been:

[Nyctophilia]

Funny seeing comments like this now:

Oh my god if PT ever do a reunion tour I'm gonna buy a ticket for each city in the UK and drive to every one I don't give a fuck.

I would start a war in my country and go to UK as a refugee and attend every concert in every city.

That's a original reason for wanting to come to the UK as a refugee I will say.

Well they did reunite for concerts in London and Manchester in the UK in 2022 and 2023. But in general Steven does solo concerts mostly in London I think when it comes to the UK (but I'm not really paying attention to other stuff since London is most convinient/closest to me anyway.) I went to see Porcupine Tree in Manchester though because I missed the London concert. But they also played in other countries lol. It's not like they ever only played in the UK. Also Steven Wilson tours in other places and he sometimes plays Porcupine Tree trakcs with his live band well always actually I think.

I think it's been a while since he did a solo tour now. When was his last concert besides the Porcupine Tree ones... I mean I think some stuff was cancelled because of covid but I wasn't paying close attention. Cause at one time I was going to a bunch of them and it seemed to be pretty regular and kind of took that for granted. I really want to see his new solo album live though.

Wtf when did this happen?

Sep 27, 2023

The Harmony Codex Listening Session + Steven Wilson Live Set

I didn't even hear about this? Was this like a proper concert or? I need to pay closer attention.

Following the playback of the entire 65-minute album over EartH’s amazing immersive sound system, Steven will play a unique 30-minute solo live set of music from the album, also in spatial audio.

EartH is equipped with L-Acoustics L-ISA spatial audio technology, placing the audience in a hemisphere of sound. The 17.1.8 system includes five frontal loudspeaker arrays, 12 surrounds, 8 overheads and 4 flown subwoofers, 69 speakers in total.

It looks like some kind of niche small event and not a typical concert.

Lol why is it listed as YouTube kids? Only has 91 views:



I shouldn't really watch this though I am because it's like spoilers.

Oh this is a better quality recording from this event awesome (actually not really I thought it was lol):



Also it looks like in 2021 he played a bunch of shows in the UK but one date was cancelled in Germany. Yeah just the odd random concert here and there dates in 2020 and 2019.

Looking I'm kind of glad I live in the UK now lol he definitely does more concerts here.

I saw this post on Tumblr:

I think now that I’ve gotten older and my musical tastes have shifted I can say with absolute confidence that for me personally Steven is at his peak when hes at his darkest eg. in absentia, the incident, grace for drowning

the juxtaposition of his very sweet singing voice and the absolutely heinous subject matter is just so striking I know the incident isn't talked about as much but Bonnie the cat is one of the most heinous songs ever written in the best way

And I understand Steven himself wants to try new things and good in him for doing so but I don't think for me personally he'll never give me the sheer viscera or something like raider ii again

And I could totally see where they're coming from RE: To The Bone and The Future Bites but The Harmony Codex is so amazing and like the perfect execution I think of what he's been sort of doing for the last couple of albums imo. Definitely his best electronic work so far.

Tbf their Tumblr post was about a month before that album was released lol.

Also though I really like the psychedelic Porcupine Tree stuff now.

And I don't know how becuase it's not been very long and nothing materially has changed but Fadeaway makes me nostalgic now atm:



This sounds like something kind of psychedelic mixed with something rejected from the Hellraiser sountrack lol which I love (that sounds almost like an insult but tbf Coil's Hellraiser soundtrack was rejected later on and Coil are great):



Raider II is an amazing track though especially live. I haven't seen it live in person though so far. It's a really long track so seems unlikely I'll get to hear that as time goes on. ._. I got into his music after The Raven That Refused To Sing was released so the first concert I went to was during that era too and wasn't played then.

[Nyctophilia]

This is the same Lauren Southern who would show up to troll people (liberals and trans activists mostly,) at protests, once changed her legal gender to male to prove how easy it was in Canada, was doing some weird stuff with migrant boats I can't remember, came to my hometown to hand out flyers saying Alah is gay and then got banned from the UK not long after?






I didn't realise she was this naive and she was pretty attractive too so I feel like she could have done better. Even now this situation is so bizarre since I haven't really paid attention to her for years that I'm wondering if this is just some 'well I guess I'll grift off the left instead now' arc.

Yeah I've seen so many people do this and just flip flop that I actually can't trust people.

But yeah I'd be pretty OK with being single over that.

Some research points to men with authoritarian right wing beliefs having 24/7 power fantasies as a fetish and various things like that. Now, obviously that won't apply in every case, but you have to be careful I think. It's not exactly hard to see them constantly posting abusive crap all over social media. I guess some people don't pay as much attention though and they probably act differently before they get into relationships too.

Actually seems like they got married really quickly after barely knowing each other and she was 22 (pretty young,) and she then moved to another country. None of this is a brilliant idea honestly though they're not the only people who have done this sort of thing. Definitely a huge risk.

I mean I thought she was a huge asshole really back in the day and I guess there's always a part of me that gets surprised when people like that end up being abused in relationships even though that doesn't make sense I sort of imagine they're more cynical and dominant etc. Like how I tend to assume malicious people are more intelligent than they often are.

This is where its from, i suspect he didn't link it because the writer basically runs defence for the brainrot that led to this and even gives an anti trans jab

Oh it's Mary Harrington who wrote the article.

yeah, her telling people about southern has some worth i guess, but she's a queer-hating, both-sideing pos:

"For where I lost my twenties to commune life and niche sexualities, she left media at 22 to embrace a socially conservative template for women..."

As one redditor put it lol:

I also admire ex-lesbian commune head of marketing working class trad British women.

Since a bunch of Americans also seem deluded into thinking she's working class which is still just LOL. She's not even lower middle class. Transparently upper middle class.

Me being on the internet: literally disagreeing with everyone about something always.

So, in 2019, she announced that she was leaving media and activism altogether. As Southern tells it, she was trying sincerely to put into practice the ideology she'd promoted in her videos. "I believed I had a certain role in my relationship," she told me. "And it was to be the more submissive one that supports my husband's dreams."

So she just ignored that that's obviously incompatible with her personality type considering what she spent her career/life doing up until that point?

She never was a submissive person...

I found some other article that said this but didn't expand on it:

Southern is a lot of things. She is a self-published author who has been banned by Patreon and GoFundMe; she is someone who the Southern Poverty Law Center refers to as Canada's alt-right dog whistler. She pines for the Crusades, wants to "cure" Muslims of their hatred of the West, and at one point was a tradwife. Southern left the abusive world of tradwifedom and has since publicly condemned that lifestyle. Here's what we know about the ultra-conservative influencer's divorce.

Trying to find more... Different article:

Southern goes on to endorse the Crusades, writing, "Like sword-wielding versions of Twisted Sister, Christendom declared 'We're not gonna take it anymore,'" and "The Crusaders did absolutely nothing wrong," before concluding, "I'm going to be hoisting the flag and saying 'Deus Vult.'" [Again, italics hers.] "Deus Vult," or "God Wills," was the battle cry of the First Crusade, declared by Pope Urban II, and another dog whistle for the extremist right, where it?s used as a rallying cry against Islam.

In 2017, Southern began focusing her attention beyond Canada?s borders. She appeared at the violent UC Berkeley racist rally in mid-April wearing an Army surplus helmet with a large "MAGA" sticker plastered across it, protected by a contingent of Proud Boys. She rallied the white nationalist troops, declaring, "If I don?t show up here, I?ll tell antifa right now, another patriot will show up in my place," and "We will win the war for Berkeley."

In May, Southern joined a group of European members of Generation Identitaire (Generation Identity), a far-right anti-immigration group, who'd chartered a ship in the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Italy, where she live-streamed their group shooting flares at a search and rescue ship called the Aquarius, operated by SOS Mediterranee with support from Medicins Sans Frontieres (Doctors Without Borders). SOS Mediterranee is a European charity that rescues people in distress in the Mediterranean, including stranded refugees.

"So guys, if the politicians won't stop the boats, we?ll stop the boats," Southern says in her livestream. The Italian Coast Guard detained Southern and her allies for a brief time before releasing them, but Generation Identitaire had the video it needed to start a crowdfunding campaign for its "Defend Europe" initiative.

She's very into guns as well.

In general I find the tension between traditionalism and non-conformity among dissident right and right wing libertarian people interesting. Like her, Camille Paglia, Jordan Peterson, Bronze Age Pervert, Myron Gaines, Andrew Tate etc.

And of course it begs the question why would someone looking for a feminine traditional woman marry her? And why did she feel the need to force herself into that box? The perception that there is no alternative? Some kind of heterosexual realism? Like capitalist realism?

Capitalist Realism: Is There No Alternative? is a 2009 book by British philosopher Mark Fisher. It explores Fisher's concept of "capitalist realism", which he describes as "the widespread sense that not only is capitalism the only viable political and economic system, but also that it is now impossible even to imagine a coherent alternative to it."[1]

Things aren't quite that bad with gender. There really is a black hole economically speaking.

When did she say this I just found this on wikiquotes lol. What a rabbit hole:

"This is what's hard: I know I'm legally a man, but I'm also male-minded, despite having the female appearance." - Lauren Southern

Did she say this? It seems like something someone made up. I can't believe all things considered she would say this. Is it a joke? Why is there no context?

It's a bit of an Alan Moore moment if true though.





I personally think it's bs though until I find the source. It seems like something that she'd either say as a joke because of the thing she did in that video years ago or just not true.

Tomboy fascism 😂

Lol wth. Then again every group can have fascist tendencies femboys, hippy woo conspirituality women, hypermasculine men. Failed artists. (Hitler.)

Wonder if this has something to do with how tomboys and masculine trans men historically were used to promote nationalism and war? Because that's always been weird.

Tomboys are the most powerful race.

They are afraid.

And they should be.

Tbf Lauren you actually were part of the far right though. 😂

It's kind of fascinating. I have been exploring these dynamics and contradictions for years now. The political left has many contradictions too of course.

If some people believed tomboys would lose what was thought to be women's most important power--procreation--others believed tomboyism would strengthen that power; tomboys would grow up to be the healthiest and most attractive women, the most suited to reproduce. Thus, some people began to believe that daughters should be treated, in many ways, like sons.

And yet, even as raising girls as tomboys was pitched as the solution to the problem of a declining birth rate among white people, tomboys were often depicted as dark-haired and tanned. They were seen not only as future wonderful wives, mothers, and women, but as the heroic antidote to their opposite: feminine, vain, and indulgent girly-girls. Often, they were pitted against each other in literature, the fair-skinned and fair-haired ladylike girly-girl and the raven-haired unladylike tomboy with sun-darkened skin. That is, they were racialized, their behaviors explained and excused by their color.

Tomboys took on some stereotypes affixed by whites to people of color, including African-Americans and Native Americans; its portrayal was a kind of cultural appropriation. As Sentilles wrote, tomboys could "play Indian without becoming Indian." Some books even claimed that the name Pocahontas translated into the word "tomboy" (some recent translations posit that it meant "mischievous one").

Somehow this is not brought up in any of these articles I looked up but there was also Rotha Lintorn-Orman in the UK who I think was the founder of the first fascist movement in the UK actually:

Rotha Beryl Lintorn Lintorn-Orman (7 February 1895 ? 10 March 1935) was the founder of the British Fascisti, the first avowedly fascist movement to appear in British politics.

Rotha Orman, with her friend Nesta Maude, was among the few girls who showed up at the 1909 Crystal Palace Scout Rally wanting to be Scouts[3] which led to the foundation of the Girl Guides. In 1908 they had registered as a Scout troop, using their initials rather than forenames.[4] In 1911 she was awarded one of the first of the Girl Guides' Silver Fish Awards.[5]

In the First World War, Lintorn-Orman served as a member of the Women's Volunteer Reserve and with the Scottish Women's Hospital Corps.[6] She contributed to the relief efforts at the Great Thessaloniki Fire of 1917[7] but invalided home with malaria. In 1918 she became head of the British Red Cross Motor School to train drivers in the battlefield.[8]

Following Lintorn-Orman's war service, she placed an advertisement in the right-wing journal The Patriot seeking anti-communists.[9] This led to the foundation of the British Fascisti (later the British Fascists) in 1923 as a response to the growing strength of the Labour Party, a source of great anxiety for the virulently anti-Communist Lintorn-Orman.[10] She felt Labour was too prone to advocating class conflict and internationalism, two of her pet hates.[11]

Lintorn-Orman was dependent on alcohol and drugs,[18] and rumours about her sexual orientation began to damage her reputation. Eventually her mother stopped funding her after hearing lurid tales of drink, drugs and orgies.[19] Lintorn-Orman was taken ill in 1933 and was sidelined from the British Fascists, as effective control passed to Mrs D. G. Harnett, who sought to breathe new life into the group by seeking to ally it with Ulster loyalism.[20]

Lintorn-Orman died of an alcohol-related illness at the age of 40 on 10 March 1935 at Santa Br?gida, Las Palmas, in the Canary Islands. By then her organisation was all but defunct. She was buried at the English Cemetery in Las Palmas.

They're writing articles about facist tomboys and describing all this kind of vague stuff while not mentioning an actual fascist non-conforming woman.

And you see this kind of weird [BEEP] again now like the [BEEP] saleswoman with the weird livejournal erotic fanart. In her case it's very much confirmed and I think she was also doing meth.

Tangentially related:



I don't agree with once again the absolutism of what he's saying but I think a lot of them are very repressed and try to force themselves into some box that doesn't work with their personality type.

Instead, between the lockdown claustrophobia and her husband's behaviour, she began to revise her initial willingness to leave public life. In part, she told me, she hoped it would win back his love. "He was so much kinder, sweeter and more pursuant of me when I was this 'boss babe' travelling the world working. It seemed like becoming a mother made him lose respect for me. It was shocking to me, again, because the traditional view preached the opposite -- that men love you more when you stop working and become a wife and mother." In her experience, though, this was "very much not the case". So, a year after retiring to embrace traditionalist domestic life on the Right-wing model, she posted her comeback video, and began making sporadic media appearances.

I think some of these guys have this kind of conquest thing in mind. Then they get bored. And also since you married him from his pov he doesn't have to pretend to not be an abusive asshole anymore.

Ellen (not her real name), 35, is another previously married erstwhile "trad" who is now in Southern's network. She describes how the men who self-select into these communities are often "wayward, antisocial, disagreeable and very, very misogynistic",

You don't say.

I'm being kind of a dick but my entire experience online at this point is just guys with this personality combination - which I hate btw - jumping out from everywhere so I'm honestly confused by anyone who doesn't want that ending up in this situation at this stage but I guess it was a few years back and she was pretty married to antifeminism clearly to a point that meant even throwing out self preservation.

Unironically cottagecore lesbians are waaaaay ahead of the conservative right on the tradwife game

I think you may be right.

There's something kind of weirdly defensive about so many trad wives online (the actual kind of # movement that is,) like they seem motivated by a desire to go after liberal women and don't seem... There's something off there. It goes both ways too obviously. Straight people really aren't OK (tm). Not in every case but they're very combatative on average and it doesn't surprise me that the whole thing isn't working for a lot of them. (Being a tradwife isn't working for a lot of them I mean not heterosexuality although honestly lol.... Both.)

I could be wrong but she seems happy:





None of her content involves putting down other types of women.

She is also a lesbian and married to a woman but I don't think that should be essential ideologically speaking.

If heterosexuality is a culture, and culture is mutable, that means there's hope. Even today, the idea persists that straight culture is "natural," whatever that means. The criteria Susan Sontag set out in "Notes on 'Camp,'" however, like artifice and exaggeration, can be just as neatly applied to the straight world. Wedding receptions, baby showers, and bachelor parties are all good examples.

Like the first woman she talks about in this video why lol?:



I basically don't watch adverts now and when I do I don't but this caught my attention lol.

What does this have to do with m&ms ? I never understood ?These comercials have nothing to do with the product they're selling .

This commercial is beyond stupid lmao. What does anything that happens in this have to do with the product it advertises Also wow he said feet instead of face hahahahah comedy genius!!

I feel like it's marketed at me somehow.

What's that m&m advert? Give the guys with short hair and full body tattoos a chance because they might be plant guys with small feet and I can steal their shoes?

But I really like long hair </3

I'm extracting resources (shoes.)



No my feet are like size 5 in women's UK size that's 7 in the US? That's like 4 sizes below the average men's size lol. I don't like the idea of wearing other people's shoes anyway.

Anyone know what brand of shoes he has? I want to get a pair. LOL.

It is more of a shoe advert lol. Those aren't quite my thing though I like these ones:





These shoes are like over 100 pounds though so I can't buy them.

[Nyctophilia]

I'm also specifically talking about samesex couples today rather than [BEEP] parents in general because obviously while a bisexual woman and a bisexual man are also [BEEP] parents they will have a different experience to myself and Claudia for example and you know a lot of the research that I looked at for this only focussed on lesbians and gay men it's very hard to find anything else.
But there is no mention of asexual or non-binary parents please give me your resarch papers if you have them drop me your citations down below.

Yeah now and then I'll search even for anecdotes about non-binary parents but there is very little. Non-binary people skew younger in general though + people posting online about things like this do. There are some older people who have come out like significantly older than me. It was mostly my generation who were the first to come out in any significant number though (like millennials born say in 1985 and later I was born in 1991. Oh and also labels have varied and similar concepts were being discussed in the 80s and 90s and even earlier really,) and there are only 30,000 non-binary people aged 16+ in the UK. So there are basically no role models or research about parenting outside of the very gendered roles.

I know there was this one couple who were on like talk shows and stuff both trans and I think non-binary way back in like 2016 or something and it attracted tons of controversy mostly because they were raising their kid gender neutral and so that's also not something I want to watch you know the whole sensationalised controversy framing is bleak.

Just found this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9359002/

Beyond Mum and Dad: Gendered Assumptions about Parenting and the Experiences of Trans and/or Non-Binary Parents in the UK

In Fischer's (2021) study of five non-binary birth parents, participants found that navigating their parenting identities outside of traditional scripts was challenging, given the lack of parental designations for non-binary parents. It has also been shown that parents who transition after having children often retain their father/mother role due to their biological connection to the child (Petit et al., 2017), but that this can be associated with high levels of identity tension (Simpson, 2018; Norwood, 2012)

5! Lol.

There is a lack of research looking at the distinct experiences of TNB parents with different gender identities. One US-based study indicated that trans women were more likely to experience their children limiting contact with them than were trans male and non-binary parents (S. E. James et al., 2016). Scholars such as Hines (2006) have suggested that this could be due to greater societal acceptance of female androgyny than male femininity. Consistent with this finding, Apperson et al. (2015) found that the attitudes of US college students toward the hypothetical scenario of a parent being trans were more positive if the mother came out as a trans man than if the father came out as a trans woman, indicating particularly high levels of prejudice toward trans women who are parents. These findings suggest that there may be important differences in the experiences of trans men, trans women and non-binary people, and more research is clearly needed to unpack this further.

The first theme (Motherhood: essential and exclusionary) refers to the way in which motherhood was perceived as an essential role in a child?s life. This role was also deemed to be exclusive to certain parents, primarily birth parents, who were assumed to be cis women. Participants were impacted differently by these assumptions, in that non-binary birth parents were often perceived as mothers, but did not want to be, and that trans women were excluded from accessing motherhood.

The second theme (Fathers as uninvolved parents: negotiating fatherhood) refers to the expectation that non-birth biological parents were fathers, and that fathers were less involved as parents. Such assumptions had wide-reaching legal and social implications. Participants who identified with fatherhood (either entirely or partially) negotiated with these norms, and extended the concept of fatherhood beyond biological connections, and beyond cis men.

The third theme (Mum, Dad and nothing in between: parenting beyond the binary) describes how parenting norms of mum and dad as being the only two, discrete identities impacted upon participants, and particularly non-binary parents. This theme describes how participants constructed new parenting names and practices, to avoid the highly gendered nature of traditional terms.

Yeah so this makes a lot of sense to me that motherhood is more gendered than fatherhood. In addition to not wanting to be pregnant part of the reason I don't want to go through that process is it does seem more essentialised and gendered as a role and if you give birth to a child and keep the child then that's going to happen. It may anyway though if you're the only parent or you seem like the more feminine person in a relationship with a kid.

Also instead of attempting to minimise that there's an increasing movement to make motherhood this very feminine womanly gendered thing. I can't complain about that because I'm part of a tiny minority I'm sure there are non-conforming cis women who dislike some of this stuff too but in combination that's still a minority I think. But yeah I don't want to be part of that paradigm.

Terfs actually go around trying to trigger people like I saw a twitter comment recently addressed at someone else 'you gave birth so you're obviously a woman that's the most womanly thing a person can do.' So it also becomes reassuring in a way "I may have x, y ,z trait but I've never gone through that." Of course there are numerous ways it's actually masculinising including the fact that many mothers end up with male DNA in a chimera sense if they have male offspring. Obviously nobody talks about that kind of thing though and why would they lol.

Microchimerism of fetal as well as maternal origin has recently been reported in the mouse brain. In this study, we quantified male DNA in the human female brain as a marker for microchimerism of fetal origin (i.e. acquisition of male DNA by a woman while bearing a male fetus).

Actually I think Claudia made a video about this (edit: well she didn't make the video I don't think she has a channel lol but she's the focus of the video,) not the same because she's not dysphoric about being female etc but addressing clothing:



She says in that video other people are surprised that Jessica isn't the one who's pregnant because she's more feminine and yeah that's how people's brains work too lol.

I love this! Not only because it's new Jessie and Claud content, but also because of the type of video it is. So much content surrounding pregnancy focuses on womanhood and femininity and that can be great and empowering for some people, but having the other side is surely also very necessary.

yes, and "the other side" not just being "...and, it can also be very difficult", but rather "...and, you can still be yourself, even if you aren't into presenting as super-femme".

Yeah.

Eg does she think this is inspiring:

https://unherd.com/2019/10/how-mothe...my-liberalism/

Then I had a baby. It is commonplace to observe that life after becoming a parent is different from life before, which is true, and one part of this was my cherished liberal beliefs running aground on the physical reality of being, not a parent, but specifically a mother.

For me, becoming a mother involved 12 surreal and painful hours of labour followed by a crash C-section and a week on a drip. Recovery took a month. On sharing this with other women who are mothers I discovered that most of us have a horror story of one sort or another about childbirth, but that a polite omerta exists around sharing these either with men or with non-mothers. On the whole this is probably for the best, or no woman would ever consider getting pregnant. But it is only the first layer in a cloak of obfuscation that lies over the nature of motherhood.

You see how she almost paints two roles one the role of a parent which applies to both parents and then the role of a mother which is singular. There's no fatherhood role really or it's downplayed (of course many conservatives etc will emphasise the importance of this too and then have arguments about stereotypical masculinity etc.) You also have to wonder how adopted mothers fit into this. Are they just parents? Presumably though the language we use for female adopted mothers is still the same.

Males cannot give birth, unless you count those male-identified females who are periodically reported in the papers as "pregnant fathers". Neither can males breastfeed, and it is arguably breastfeeding where the roles of a mother and her co-parent in a couple really begin to diverge.

I do actually and here's something I don't think her crowd has considered much besides to say they are against surrogacy. You can impregnate other people with your eggs now because of technology. This is actually a new reproductive role. I think there are also in the UK now people with three genetic parents (think we were the first country to do this which is weird because so many people are anti everything surrounding alternatives like this.)

A baby has been born using three people's DNA for the first time in the UK, the fertility regulator has confirmed. Most of their DNA comes from their two parents and around 0.1% from a third, donor woman. The pioneering technique is an attempt to prevent children being born with devastating mitochondrial diseases.

I embarked on motherhood with a vision of myself as rational and autonomous. It was unsettling the least to find myself in this messy, leaky symbiosis with a wholly dependent infant whose cries caused me to lactate and lose the ability to think coherently. I am not saying we should shrug our shoulders at the different ways men and women are treated by society, on the grounds that it is a biological inevitability. I want rather to suggest that the simplistic picture of sex equality promoted by popular feminism has a motherhood-shaped blind spot and, as such, lets both sexes down.

While our mainstream liberal culture pretends that all humans are essentially identical apart from our dangly bits, it will continue to recoil in disgust from the messy reality of motherhood as a deeply animal experience. And so mothers will continue to be as overworked, guilty and burned out as they currently are, and our birth rates will continue to plummet. Perhaps, finally, it is time to restart the long-overdue public conversation about what motherhood is, and move beyond the polite political omerta that covers the subject.

It's an important conversation but the more she talks the less I want to go through any of that process lol! Which is ironic because she seems to want to increase the birth rate based on the bolded part.

Sad that the theme of this article is both obvious in the real world and yet a taboo subject. And so many influential people want to fight this natural reality. In brief they want to stop people being humans and turn us into soulless automatons.

Yay for 'soulless automatons'

Hello voidpunk my old friend



I'm not watching the whole of this video I just found I'm trying to find something that really sums up Mary Harrington's position and the position of people aligned with her but a lot of it is behind paywalls and I also stumbled on this video with this title:

Motherhood, Transhumanism, and the Case for Being Normal | Mary Harrington

Things To Be Bought And Sold
What happens when you can create a baby, without creating a mother?

We can't even make a synthetic human breastmilk that's anywhere near as good as the real stuff. So quite aside from the obvious ethical horror-show of attempting to develop such a technology, the probability of developing a form of ectogenesis capable of incubating a live human child is low to say the least.

This doesn't make the fantasy less appealing, to people whose idea of freedom looks like a concerted push to transcend every given limit of humanity.

No idea why she thinks it's impossible given enough time. It seems very unlikely given enough time and research that it would be impossible in fact.

How to solve the cycle of decline? Print more babies!

From Musk's 'Believe in the future!' perspective, the stubborn trend towards human reproductive pessimism is obviously a disaster: "If there aren?t enough people for Earth, then there definitely won't be enough for Mars," Musk lamented. The tech world's Spock contingent was quick off the mark in response. Maybe it's unfair asking women to have more babies, one suggested, because of the asymmetrical career opportunity cost. He and others argued the solution must surely be synthetic wombs, to make it safer and easier to manufacture new humans.

edit: What does Spock contingent even mean lol? Is she talking about the parenting book by Dr. Spock or like the Star Trek Vulcan character? I feel like this could go either way at this point.

I don't know what Elon's position on this is I do vaguely remember someone saying something about artificial wombs and maybe he responded saying 'that won't solve the problem' but can't find searching now and honestly can't remember exactly. I would think he should have particular insight as he has attempted to create a harem of intelligent women (I'm sorry but it honestly seems that way of late like he was dating these conventionally attractive actresses etc and then just suddenly had kids with one of his employees? And the Grimes thing happened after he found her on twitter because she made the same rationalist community injoke and they both had some kind of unusual open on/off again relationship the entire time. She often calls him 'bro.') Intelligent women are much more likely to have no kids whatsoever and to not want kids and if you look at Grimes for example she once said this:



So she's had three kids two by surrogacy and only one naturally and I think the reason for that is mostly how difficult she said the process was with her first kid (think she said she almost died or something,) but I think it's obvious that even on an emotional level something is 'disconnected'

Since giving birth she's focussed on making a lesbian AI album and become fixated with AI and the idea of becoming AI. In tweets she describes her gender as female-ish and that she's a middle aged man.





Now you can argue this is just cultural I suppose and that you can magically erase all these people but I don't think I agree actually. Apparently - and I'd have to verify this for sure but from what I've read - women who are more intelligent are less likely to want kids even when they don't have a career getting in the way.

Not only do I think intelliegence is a factor but there's also something else. White people are a minority globally but I don't know if that's mostly because of events like the black death but it seems like something may have happened there that potentially isn't cultural and actually genetic. So when they compare black women and white women they find black women's happiness after having kids is neutral and white women's is negative. Black men are happier after having kids and white men are neutral. (Which seems significant, both are also raised in a Western culture.)

But the technological influence globally is obviously a thing too it's happening everywhere. The birth rate is still collapsing everywhere regardless and probably connected to technology, urbanisation and population density I think.

And then what are you going to do? Do a Ted Kaczynski and demolish all technology and civilisation? Maybe you could buy some land and do that if you want to in a localised sense, but it's not going to happen on a large scale. She still kind of has that commune mentality I think lol. I dunno what kind of commune she lived on though tbf.

It really has to be a glamorised version to appeal to people. If you stuck a camera in our house on a typical morning, you?d put young people off from ever having kids:)
It is a glimmer of hope though.
I agree about housing costs and many other issue to be overcome

They don't realise how great a job they're doing of putting people off lmfao.

At their core I would say they are anti-technology really.

So many of these conversations are along the lines of "if you don't find various sexed things appealing you are a robot/alien/cyborgs!" "People being like you means they're becoming inhuman!" Don't get me started on the TV trope of non-binary characters being robots and aliens. Most recently it seems - Doctor Who.

I mean I like and relate to aliens but damn.



I don't like Doctor Who personally because it's a bit too family friendly for me so the writing doesn't appeal. I also think some of the aliens are a bit cheesy now lol. I know a lot of people really love it though but yeah just not my cup of tea. I found this video entertaining though because she's pretty funny.

"Is LoTR gay? Is Doctor Who transgender? This is a terrible channel and you should unsubscribe."

"What are you talking about? The premise in this show is that the doctor found these clothes in a charity shop she didn't get them custom made to tell a story about the suffragettes in the inner sleeves. She didn't pick her jacket because they look like the colour of the sky."

Also some of the other clips:

"How did you come across that voice?"

"Well I was told we want the pure voice of a young boy with the mentality of a homosexual civil servant."

LOL.

The most interesting thing explored in this video though is the cybermen and daleks and how the removal of gender is treated as part of the removal of their Humanity or perhpas personhood? Which is emphasised (since both daleks and cybermen used to be either Humans or another alien race.)

The Cybermen used to be human. They began experimenting with cybernetic parts in order to survive, over time they became more cybernetic than human. During the cyber conversion they have all of their emotions removed, this is partly due to the horror of the process.

With the cybermen who all used to be humans this removal is also closer to masculinity in it's end result since they're referred to with he/him or it pronouns never she and really their body type is also more masculine than feminine (edit: even the extreme stoicism and 'removal of emotions' could be considered an extreme form of masculinity lol.) The only exception is a cyberwoman character who is basically treated as an incomplete cyberman who hasn't yet been entirely dehumanised.

This has a lot to do with how we gender people. We gender them by observing their feminine traits when it comes to body, hair length, clothing style and language etc. Though the language thing has very gradually started to become eroded since the time of Ursula K. Le Guin's writing which actually does get brought up in this video lol and I was thinking about her before I heard that.

The video also brings up how Jodie Whittaker doesn't appear androgynous despite copying an outfit from the past that she felt was androgynous - and specifically trying to look androgynous - but she couldn't pull it off and this is attributed to her hair length and style. I think it's also partly that the tops she wears are very fitted and tight showing off her chest to some extent. I think if you are afab it's very difficult to appear androgynous or even not female while having long hair. It's all about bone structure and body language really. Also not wearing makeup helps a lot and I don't just mean obvious makeup you can't cheat it won't work. I mean no makeup like Greta Thunberg. You'll know when it's working because if you have soft features people will act like you're very young and/or unattractive.

When people have batshit takes like this you'll know it's working:

Greta Thunberg - is a surprisingly androgynous seeming nymphet of climate love, who may badly need of some physical affection.

Greta has been brought forward in our society, to promote the climate hoax, but she is unusual, because she is androgynous seeming and not evocative at all in her presentations, of any sense of sexual ecstasy, or orgasmic outcomes.

This makes her into an unusual marketing tool for the perpetuation of the economic growth model that she is covertly working for.

Greta is not flirtatious and nor is she coquettish. However she was brought forwards into the spotlight prior to her obtaining her majority, and therfore at this time she was not a legitimate source for any sexual fantasy.

Now however, time is writing cruel messages upon her countenance, and one wonders that she cannot have or be participating in any satisfying or meaningful sexual liaison at this time.

Our heart goes out to this sweet and lovely climate patsy Greta Thunberg.

You'll know it's working when Andrew Tate @'s you on twitter lol.

Honestly people say some really weird things about her. I see it a lot.

I'm sure there are some people who do think Jodie is androgynous too though. At the very least I wouldn't say she's appealing to female beauty standards.

Even though most people have minimal control over that and certain things come naturally to some people more than others I still think it's impressive when people manage to pull that off:



Especially as someone who prefers having long hair but wants to appear more androgynous in spite of that and doesn't want to appear hyperfeminine.

All the same people are still going to mostly read people like this as being male with long hair. Because that's how that was coded over the past few decades that kind of casual + masculine body language + long hair vibe:



Although saying that people will comment very different things depending on if the person is afab vs amab:

This:

He kinda looks like a woman, a really beautiful one

why is every guy from this era the hottest person I've ever laid eyes on

Maybe because he sat on a "silverchair" and got a magical energy that changed him into a lady prince! xD

I thought he was a girl until i saw the comments :(

vs this:

I thought she was he

If she womanizes herself she does have a girly face. And i dare to say shes pretty. But she has the hair of a skate punk dude and the same shorts and shoes any skater would use. Id love to see her dressed and her hair done like a proper woman

No, it's a dude ffs

He would have been very good looking man. Damn shame they raised him posing as a girl ! Of course that?s why she's a 'lesbian'.

Shes a guy. Born a male and will die a male. He just changed his name to Eliot

Kind of weird really lol. I'm not sure if it's their finding out the sex that causes this distinction or not. Possibly subtle differences in mannerisms. A lot of people also discuss if that guy is gay but he isn't. Tons and tons of discussion about him being closeted it seems going back decades to the point he addressed it in some interview. To me he doesn't even read as gay even though he's androgynous though I can see why some people might read him that way if they're less observant.

Of course a lot of these comments are transvetigator types as well who have conspiracy views that various famous people were born the opposite sex. Eliot is non-binary but afab/genetically female.

There are exceptions to this though that are very recent. Like how people think shoeonhead is male or trans, and this British YouTuber everyone was doing the same thing with about a decade before. And coincidentally I did find a super old comment from shoeonhead on one of her videos lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iI9CUE9g14

Hard to know how much of that is just shitposting. Obviously a lot of people have to know and are just joking but it's still a weird phenomenon and doesn't exactly happen with everyone on this scale at least (she also had dyed blue hair for a while.) I actually wonder if part of it is - at least online - when you have a mostly male audience they want to project onto you so they try to argue why you're a guy.

I can see how people might assume shoe is a femboy because of her voice + audience being mostly male + femboys existing now and confusing some people from an aesthetic pov but Randy Taylor/Rose predated all of that lol and has an obviously female voice pitch.

But around this time (early 2010s,) in my own life I knew a guy irl - not a very masculine guy either - who asked why I act like a guy. He knew I wasn't genetically male but still said that and this was during a period where I had long unnaturally dyed hair etc which isn't exactly a masculine trait (this was before it became associated with LGBT+ people and heavily politicised I should say. Or at least most people weren't aware of that connection at the time now it's a popular caricature.) Though granted I didn't wear dresses (he asked me to do that too.) Even now this still confuses me lol. I was never butch. I don't think I asked what he meant at the time and can't even remember my response now honestly. It was just like 'eh whatever.'

I guess with her it's because her YouTube name is Randy and the way she talks is somewhat boyish. And she one time uploaded a video of herself building a PC. But when you think about this from a male pov all these things are associated with being feminine. Like being a nerdy guy is seen as being feminine or less masculine at least lol.

I dunno I'm just really fascinated by this (obviously lol....) And also how it intersects with parasocial relationships and online communication and borderline psychosis + conspiracy thinking.

edit: Also I haven't watched much of the show at all (as I say I'm not really a fan of the cheesy writing in general. There are some scenes I've seen clips from which seem better though like the one with Van Gogh) and I haven't seen the episode that's the focus of most of this video. Most people seem to be as confused by the dialogue quoted as I am.

But if I'm interpreting it correctly (spoilers obviously,) there's the idea that a character is only non-binary because they inherited part of some the doctor - an alien's - DNA. But I can't even find concrete info on whether the character is a trans woman or non-binary the actress is a trans woman. Either way the doctor seems to be portrayed as non-binary and an alien 'because he's an alien.' So this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about emphasised lol...

This is not unlike how many cultures globally have third gender categories for androgynous people who are seen as communicating with the Gods because they are part God or something. I don't know why this re-occurs as a creative idea (but I think it might be related somehow to what I go into later in the post about how identity develops in toddlers and also to openness as a personality trait. Some people have similar experiences from taking hallucinogens sometimes.)

The Bugis people thought that when a being became a woman or a man, that being could no longer communicate with the gods. Men and women were in some sense cut off from the gods that made them. But the gods had a means of communicating with humans: the bissu. Because the gods left the bissu undifferentiated – a combination of woman and man – they are accorded a position of influence. As the bissu bring together woman and man in one person, they can mediate between humans and gods through blessings.

The only thing stopping this from happening for the most part in Western culture is that God is viewed as male. Christianity is a patriarchal religion. The female is almost entirely removed, crossdressing and androgyny in general is demonised, and reproduction is emphasised as important which is also bad/limited/rigid in a different way imo.

That's why I found people talking about how when they do hallucinogens the entities they encounter seem to strongly dislike Christianity but not various pagan gods interesting:

They don't like Christianity much but if you start telling them about the Greek/Roman or Egyptian Gods they'll get friendlier and may bestow gifts if you prove you are willing to delve deeper in connecting with these Gods.

I did a peyote ceremony with the Navajo in 2014. Just like McKenna says about DMT, i literally felt like I was pushed through a membrane of sorts into a rave like dimension. A machine elf greeted me singing and welcoming me exactly as people describe them. Everything felt right, so I thought in my head what's your name not knowing this thing could read my mind and it said "Baphomet". At first the phrase meant nothing to me, but a soon as I realized what was said I very quickly thought of Christ and was launched violently Into an infinite black ocean of some kind. I was drowning in a pitch black ocean with no sky above the surface only unspeakable lengths of what looked like ropes with bugs crawling on them in the air. This was a devastating experience

I'm sure this is not always the case and is probably even culturally relative but still it's certainly interesting.

All of this is fun up until the point people are very seriously threatened, try to police your existence etc.

I was thinking if the opposite extreme moved away from dehumanisation but it doesn't when you think about it. Like characters like the hulk, super mutants in Fallout 3 and hypermasculinity is also kind of removed I think? There's this reoccuring theme of people being turned into these creatures too in an often viral fashion.

Super mutant is a general term referring to humanoid mutants created by exposing a regular and relatively unmutated human to a variant of the Forced Evolutionary Virus (FEV). The resulting hulking mutants typically possess exceptional strength, endurance, resistance or immunity to disease and radiation, as well as modified intelligence. Originally introduced in Fallout as a unique mutant menace led by the Master, super mutants have appeared in every game since, in several varieties and playing a variety of roles.

Hmm...

Anyway this actually shows imo (in addition to what I say in this about parenthood being viewed as more androgynous than motherhood,) that a large part of how we view Humans is being a woman and a mother.

Grimes was previously diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder though she disagrees with the diagnoses I think but no wonder she identifies with this (also aliens historically,) so much now lol:



I'm not saying Grimes is non-binary because she's never used that label but she does map on very well to what jreg is talking about here with the posthuman thing lol at least her creative projects map onto that:



'posthuman abomination.'

Yes it's fun aesthetically etc. What if I'm Human and an alien. Symbolically/metaphorically speaking. Most people aren't cyborgs yet and their DNA is just Human so it's pretty clear cut. Regardless of what I do or don't do I'm Human.

But I also think if someone gets some kind of implant etc as they are starting to do now they are still Human. If we did encounter a very similar alien species like via convergent evolution we would probably consider them Human too - at least from a rights perspective and probably should. Because it isn't just about DNA.



She does strike me as being on that spectrum actually. Like with schizoid PD there's this sort of thing:

Even when schizoid individuals may not long for closeness, they can become weary of being "on the outside, looking in". These feelings may lead to depression, depersonalization, or derealization.[120][6][60] If they do, schizoid people often experience feeling "like a robot" or "going through life in a dream".[159] People with SzPD may try to avoid all physical activity in order to become nobody and disconnect from reality. This can lead to the patient spending a large quantity of time sleeping and ignoring bodily functions such as hygiene.[60]

Although this disorder does not affect the patient's capacity to understand reality, they may engage in excessive daydreaming and introspection.[44][160][161] Their daydreams can grow to consume most of their lives. Real life can become secondary to their fantasy,[7] and they can have complex lives and relationships which exist entirely inside of their internal fantasy. These daydreams may constitute a defense mechanism to protect the patient from the outside world and its difficulties.[62][120][162] Common themes in their internal fantasies are omnipotence and grandiosity.[60] The related schizotypal personality disorder and schizophrenia are reported to have ties to creative thinking, and it is speculated that the internal fantasy aspect of SzPD may also be reflective of this thinking.[163][164][165] Alternatively, there has been an especially large contribution of people with schizoid symptoms to science and theoretical areas of knowledge, including mathematics, physics, economics, etc. At the same time, people with SzPD are helpless at many practical activities because of their symptoms.[166]

Of course schizoaffective disorder and schizoid are different and schizoid people don't tend to become actually psychotic or have most of the positive symptoms of schizophrenia. Mostly they just get absorbed in daydreams and thinking and fail to maintain practical and social stuff in life + have difficulty connecting with people or wanting to (this getting lost in daydreams/thinking and not focussing on the practical is something I relate to a lot of course and I also have a cousin with diagnosed schizophrenia,) but there are certain commanilities.

I know she also thinks she's autistic though and there's a lot of overlap between schizoid PD at least and autism in terms of symptoms and difficulty telling them apart.

Speaking of Mary Harrington's blog I also get particuarly annoyed when people arguing these points are male. You want to frame Humanity as engaging in normative-sexed behaviour and reproduction. OK. A lot of you are actually mostly male. Liberals are increasingly female. You can't even give birth physiologically so what the [BEEP] do you know about rejecting/embracing this?

It's why I think it would be better to be an aunt/uncle because it's a less gendered role and still get to be around kids if you want. My friend's sister has a kid so he hangs out with him sometimes.

Lol hang out with kids when they talk about their past lives. Toddlers are so weird xD:



It's so funny the way kids talk sometimes where their sense of time is all over the place (I think I read someone explain this once but I can't remember the specifics.) Like she asks him if he likes making daisy chains and he says

"Sometimes when I'm an adult but I can't do it right now."

Sometimes they say stuff that sounds really trippy like this video I watched ages ago:



"When I was the strongest Emmy I used to go there."

I wonder what's going on in their heads lol because well I don't remember being that young now. I have a couple of memories of when I was about 4-5 but not sure if they're true or if maybe one of them happened at a later age. Also maybe some other memories around a similar time but a bit later but nothing like that anyway.

Some young children, usually between the ages of 2 and 5, speak about memories of a previous life they claim to have lived. At the same time they often show behaviors, such as phobias or preferences, that are unusual within the context of their particular family and cannot be explained by any current life events.

Like these comments I found on reddit:

Wow thank you for posting! My son (5) has claimed - since age 3 - to have been born hundreds of years ago in Thailand (we are the whitest, Western Europeans you've ever seen). He referenced his other mom, his wife, his friends, and has an intense interest in Thai food. We never encouraged or discouraged his stories. Everything in the article you posted aligns with our experience and everyone in our family said he was an old soul since he was a baby? this is so wild.

My son told me at 3 that he wanted to go to his other mothers house. The one he had before he was in my tummy. I thought he was making up stories and pretty much ignored it, but there was real emotion behind this. He told me he never got big and had a brother. He preferred girls clothes as soon as he could chose and told me he used to be a girl and had dark skin like his friend. I let him wear what he wanted. His preschool was very progressive thankfully, we never identified him as trans or anything (we were very okay with him being trans though if he was, it's just he was so young we decided to just let him be who he was without pushing anything on to him. He didn't ask us to use female pronouns or anything), sometimes he would say things like "im really a girl" and I would ask him why he thought that and he would say the same thing "bc I was one before I was in your tummy. I just said okay. We neither validated or discouraged. Just let him be him and had a wait and see approach. He would draw himself as a black girl, bigger than he was at the time. His interests in toys were also more "feminine coded" lots of "cute things" (his words), stuffed animals, pink, glitter, dolls etc.

He stopped talking about it around 5, this is also the time he began to choose "boys clothing" and fully identify with his gender. I want to stress that this happened on his own, we didn't want to influence his self expression.

Interesting. Our 4 yo has been randomly telling us she's a boy for a little over a year. We've reacted how it sounds you did. She does love dresses and naturally gravitates toward all things "girly" - but who knows?

One of mine stated very matter of fact 'mummy, you know when you die and then come back as someone else .... ' can't remember the actual question they were asking but it was just they way they stated it as a known fact that stuck with me.

Wow thank you for posting! My son (5) has claimed - since age 3 - to have been born hundreds of years ago in Thailand (we are the whitest, Western Europeans you've ever seen). He referenced his other mom, his wife, his friends, and has an intense interest in Thai food. We never encouraged or discouraged his stories. Everything in the article you posted aligns with our experience and everyone in our family said he was an old soul since he was a baby? this is so wild.

So creepy story time. A few weeks ago at our playgroup a new 3 year old girl arrived. Right away she went up to my 15 month old and started petting her face, her hair and gave her a hug. My friend sitting next to me goes "they know each other" I said no they've just met, she goes "no in a past life, I'm getting chills watching them" that's when I started listening to what she was saying. She said "that's my sister " and then while they were petting each others faces she says "I missed you so much" and gave her a kiss on her cheek. My baby was equally enthralled by her even though she usually hates people touching her. After a few minutes of this they suddenly decided it was done and went their separate ways. Watching it was a reunion. It was wild but the weirdest part to me was that once they finished they completely ignored each other for the rest of the playgroup. Kids can be pretty creepy

My oldest once walked down the stairs in the middle of the night and came into my bedroom. She said she needed her mommy and when I went to hug her she backed up and said "no I need my other mommy!" She calmed down over the next few seconds and seemed to remember what was going on, but I'll never forget the lack of recognition in her eyes when she looked at me in that moment.

Super weird.

So the kid in the first video I linked also invented a story where he has a friend who died called George they were talking about death though so maybe that's why but someone else posted this on reddit:

I was on the couch with my 3 year old son and husband and what seemed to be out of nowhere, my son looks at both of us and says "Momma died, Dada died, and me. And then somebody found my head." I was like "When did this happen?" And he responded "Before I was Grayson." (His name). Then, he grabbed my face and said in a mean voice "Dig the hole." I told him "No, I'm not digging anything until you tell me who did that to us and who found your head." He responded "I don't know, somebody, but we buried in the ground and we died."

A few months ago, while I was driving and my son was in his car seat, he looked as though he was staring off into the distance and said "Mama, before I was Grayson, I was in my other mama's tummy and died." I asked him what happened and he turned his face to me and said "An accident in the car and my other mama died."

Does anybody else's child say things like this? I know children have vivid imaginations, but this seems to be a bit more than that.

Every once in a while, my 6 year old son talks about his grandfather from an old life. At first, I thought he was talking about my Dad that passed, but my son had only met him like 4x his whole life. But then he corrected me and said, "No, not your Dad. That was grandpa. I'm talking about my grandfather." Then he goes into excruciating detail of how they would pick raspberries for food, bc, there was very little available and it was a very hard life. He always gets really emotional when telling the story, sometimes sobbing and says his grandfather was killed and there was no one to protect him and he was all alone in the woods until I found him. I tell him, "Honey, I've always had you. I gave birth to you." And he'll say, "no, before you found me, I had a different mom, but she died, so my grandfather took care of me." He's told me the same story about 40ish times, for about 2.5 years.

Anyone else have a kid do this? It's really sad sometimes, bc he sounds so heartbroken.

My oldest did this for years. She was terrified of parking lots, not driving, not sidewalks, parking lots. When she was able to speak she was holding my hand walking into target and said "whenever I’m here I just think about that time we died"

I was like…. Sorry bud I have no idea what you mean. "We died, we got hit by a car walking in a place like this. Only I was still in your tummy. You died and I then I died."

For years in parking lots she would bring it up again like I was insane. How could I not remember being hit by a car and dying?? Once she even got a little testy with me about it and mentioned she had to wait forever for me to get old enough for us to start over.

My mom tells a story about me, about three years old, getting defensively mad that she didn't remember when my brother was the mommy and she and I were sisters. Another time, around the same age, we were looking at family pictures and she mentioned that I never met my grandpa because he passed away before I was born. And again in defense I said "well I met him in the place we were before I got here!". My four year old says that he and one of his cousins used to be brothers. I like to think we're onto something

My almost- 4 year old has talked about a past life since he could talk. He's very consistent in the details and has also gotten emotional talking about it more than once. It's honestly made his dad and I start believing in reincarnation.

Before he knew anything of volcanoes, he described being a builder somewhere where it suddenly got very cold and dark, the whole sky was black, and then black snow started falling, and for a little bit he was happy because the "snow" was warm. Then liquid fire came, and he and a bunch of others tried to dig what sounds like a trench to save everyone's houses. But it wasn't working so he went to the ocean and got on a ship and the last thing he remembers was it starting to go.

Like how does a kid that's just learnt to talk come up with all that? Really weird.

My daughter is 3.5 and said to me the other day "I'm so happy I chose you to be my mummy. I was waiting for you to be ready for me."

Yeah it's weird that they do that and how often death comes up seeing as young kids aren't generally exposed to the concept. I think I found an explanation for some of the ways they talk about themselves once though actually like the kid in the second video but I can't remember now. I was googling earlier and couldn't find much.

Anyway I still want more research on this topic too since it's interesting.

[Nyctophilia]

"They have this podcast called based politics. I myself have been called based at least a couple of times. I've seen at least two comments calling me based. I'm still not 100% sure what it means but I'm given to believe it's a good thing so perhaps I can join in Brad."

Based as with most online slang (as with the term woke,) originated in African American culture to mean someone addicted to crack cocaine but then some rapper reclaimed it to mean not caring what people think about you. Then 4chan reactionaries adopted it as right wing term to describe people who agree with their politics. I decided to use it for my personal but different beliefs and it seems others did too. I enjoyed doing this because it pisses off some of these people because 'you got cooties all over our word.' Essentially.

Lmao at the bit where she does an impression of when people just sit there not saying anything for ages in reaction content. Yeah.

Yeah I see a lot of people getting involved in a debate over the defintion of lesbian. Weirdly there's very little corresponding debate over the definition of gay men. Much like how no one cares about 'what is a man' in trans political debates and forgets trans men even exist. In his case he's a cis gay man and in the many defintions floating around that people like to argue about cis gay men are never included or cis men in general and yet cis men often seem to be most of the people who get involved on the 'anti-woke' side online.

Reminds me of the gay guy who- sorry the virgo who commented on this channel lol even though it's a relationship between a non-binary-adj cis woman and a trans woman and they're both bisexual:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-czbzpyD9m4

I'm a gay guy and I'm a virgo and I respect everything but seriously I cannot stop pointing out what I'm analyzing. Enya wanted to break up in the early 2010s and this guy was so in love that he went to the extreme of getting hormones just to get her attention back and it worked because most straight women are curious about gays and trans (real feminine gays and trans,) totally acceptable for a gay guy to risk it in the name of being her best self, but a straight man doing this is pointless !!!!! just for having a girl to notice you? having to transistion ??? i'm gay and I have witnessed so many straight guys doing this, having wives and still dating women after transistioning you're doing this cause YOU KNOW you will get the attention you always wished you had as a male but women are tired of these macho men straight guys who chase them and biological women always fantasise about dating a gay guy [...] and yes gay men will never care on a romantical level and women know that so they like to pretend these straight guys who transistion are actually gay they're not !!!!

Still one of the most audacious comments I've come across really.

Why are you getting involved in other people's mating strategies? You don't see me complaining about the feminine gay men who [BEEP] masculine straight men. Now go [BEEP] them and stfu lol.

No one will ever say this to him or think along these lines but I'm based that way.

We had an arrangement no lol. None of this is conducive to finding a meaningful relationship. Don't get the brain worms.

Also wondering what he thinks about the people who live as gay men, come out as trans, then switch to dating women. I've come across someone like that who was also very feminine and in the usual way that straight trans women are feminine too. It's not 100% clear cut.

Here are the groups who overlap and end up in debates over inclusion in lesbian communities and/or identity based on historical norms:

bisexual women (cis and trans)
lesbian women (cis and trans)
non-binary people (who may be exclusively or not exclusively attracted to women)
trans men (who may be exclusively or not exclusively attracted to women)

I think bisexuality became visible in the 1970s so before that bisexual and lesbian women tended to get lumped together. There still isn't much of a bisexual community/culture so I think for that reason especially alongside the general demonisation and invalidation of bisexuals there are many bisexual women who will eg: call themselves bi-lesbians. Also if they're mostly into women they see that as convinient I think.

There are also people like Leslie Feinberg who lived as a butch lesbian, then transistioned and lived as a man for a while, then medically detransistioned but continued to consider hirself transgender and a lesbian. Actually if you haven't read Stone Butch Blues you really should at least skim it.

There are people who came out as non-binary later in life and lived most of their lives as lesbians so still identify with that like Judith Butler and Eileen Myles.

Many non-binary people consider woman as part of their gender identity so it's not true that all non-binary people are agender as he suggests in the video. This is a common definition but doesn't always apply.

Trans women have also existed in these spaces and mostly date bisexual women but sometimes date cis lesbian women. Contrapoints is dating a cis lesbian woman atm. I guess you can yell at her girlfriend for how she's chosen to label herself or something.

One of the earliest trans women to transistion had to get her marriage to a woman anulled so she could transistion because it wasn't legal for two women to marry. Despite the film and book that was based on her story completely altering the real story of her life with her wife to be quite heteronormative (and also inventing weird things like getting beaten up in France which never happened,) her wife created a lot of sapphic pornographic paintings.

There was a couple on YouTube (well I saw a video about them on YT think they were prob from tiktok,) where there was a guy who was very feminine and used to identify as gay but then realised he was attracted to androgynous lesbians started dating one he met online who I think still identifies as a lesbian even though she's dating him and she's otherwise only dated women.

Gigi Gorgeous came out as a gay man, then she transistioned and then she started dating someone who at the time lived as a butch lesbian woman and so she came out as a lesbian then her partner I think after they married came out as a man and transistioned into a man and then Gigi came out as pansexual.

Obviously trans men who transistion at younger ages and never get involved in the lesbian community just ID as straight if they're exclusively into women. Some older trans men who transistion later might too. It varies. There are cis women who id as lesbians and date trans men so that provides more incentive. The trans men id'ing as lesbian is the most controversial for people I think. Among people in that community that is.

That being said I'm not a lesbian (despite a few people's opinions irl.) I'm stuck in the same limbo hell that all bisexual, non-binary, [BEEP] and otherwise not quite fitting into monosexual/monogender box people exist in.

Ironically back in the 19th century people kept trying to insist Rachilde was a lesbian despite being behaviourally bisexual and she was like 'no I'm a gay man' at some points I think but sometimes id'd as a woman as well. So basically if she was alive now she'd be called a spicy straight fujoshi because bisexuals also don't exist and everyone must be labelled based on East Asian media for some reason. I guess people would call her a furry or otherkin too or something like that because she had that whole werewolf thing going on and I think also drew herself as a cat person at some point...? Something like that.

Rachilde professed disdain and outrage in reaction to the play: "Quelle epoque! L'esprit parisien se degrade. D'ailleurs Lesbos ... je suis contre. Je suis un homme, moi!" (Choisy, Sur le chemin 112). It is a typical reaction for Rachilde, who often appears actively hostile toward lesbians. Along with mothers, they always seem to come to a bad end in her fiction, as though the author herself is punishing them. In Madame Adonis, Marcelle is stabbed to death, for example, while, in La Marquise de Sade, Mary Barbe sadistically brands the woman who makes sexual advances. This fictional hostility has its counterpart in nonfictional contexts, too. As already noted, Rachilde boasted to Apollinaire that she punished a woman who tried to seduce her by flirting with the woman's husband instead.

Rachilde's disparagement of lesbians is often taken at face value, but Choisy insightfully sees beyond the superficial, asking rhetorically: "Voulait-elle se cacher a elle-meme qu'lle s'identifiait a la femme forte de La Prisonniere?" (Sur le chemin 112). In some ways, then, Rachilde seems a perfect example of the sexologists' definition of an invert--a man trapped in a woman's body--except that this invert openly embraces a male identity but represses all feelings of attraction to women. In the taxonomy of the sexologists, Rachilde is more like a gay man trapped in a woman's body (of course the sexologists did not recognize such a category).

I love how the biographer just doesn't translate the French. Imagine if you don't speak French and aren't reading this on an electronic device. It was published in 2005 so that's also quite possible.

"What an era! The Parisian spirit is deteriorating. Besides lesbians... I am against it. I'm a man!"

"Did she want to hide from herself that she identified with the strong woman from The Prisoner?"

Another contemporary was Oscar Wilde, who was in Paris on his honeymoon at around the time Monsieur Venus was published.11 It has been suggested that the novel exercised an important influence on him since, in the first draft of The Picture of Dorian Gray, the poisonous book given to Dorian is actually named: it is Le Secret de Raoul (Ellmann 316). And, if one report at least is accurate--according to Andre Raffalovich, Wilde was excited about the novel because in it "a lesbian dresses her lover as a man" (Ellmann 282)--Wilde thought that the novel was about lesbianism. While it may seem difficult to defend this particular reading (of all the possible permutations, the lesbian seems the least likely, and, in fact, in a conversation with Raittolbe, Raoule specifically denies that her interests are sapphic), the novel is sufficiently imprecise and vague as to allow many interpretations, including the most innocent.

"As a cis gay man I think the definition of lesbian."

Yeah I suppose you do lol. Many such cases.

Tbh it's very funny that that's (at least it's implied,) what he was doing on his honeymoon.

Dividing the population into People Who Are Normal and People Who Need To Be Made Normal is one of the foundations of fascism, and a particularly baffling behavior for a gay person to indulge in

There have been many gay fascists - the first UK fascist group was created by someone who was seemingly sexually into women - and when you think about it people who are only loosely clinging to definitions of normalcy will be more threatened and feel a need to do things like this while people further up hierarchies just don't care. In theory anyway. Elon Musk and JK Rowling mysteriously exist. Hell even Elon Musk recently suggested JK Rowling might consider tweeting about something else and he agrees with her position. But it's still personal for them.

[Nyctophilia]

I'm gay

We honestly don't care. I'm straight. Does that matter? Do I shout it from the rooftops and why should I? It makes no sense. You see, nobody cares what you are. Just be yourself. That's it.

Let's be real you clicked on this video to check if Hayley Williams is gay because of the title and thumbnail and then got mad at someone saying this.

speak for godamm self. I do care, I care so much you have no idea

Lol. Tbf he does too. People who really don't care don't even interact/comment on things. They're annoyed because they have a don't ask/don't tell policy for the internet. They also ignore that for a lot of people they don't have a partner, or LGBT+ friends, or any kind of real life community, and are even closeted irl. So they use the internet instead.

And the internet is full of bigots especially twitter which she brings up in the video.

This guy cares:

I still love your music despite your odd life views.

So is Hayley Williams a leftist or liberal ?

She's both. It's one in the same. It means the same thing. She's a progressive and a feminist too. I'm not. I'm a straight male and a Conservative but I love her and Paramore. They are awesome. Period.

Both. That's why she's so annoying and preachy now.

Pretty sure you can't be both as they are contradictory economic policies. Maybe inside the heads of Americans who haven't realised that they don't have a choice in that question lol.

But looking into it now I believe the reason she does this now is that she knows that as an emo and pop punk band they have a lot of LGBT+ fans and another ex member of the band is homophobic and transphobic and I really mean that. I'm not understating it and it's easily googleable to find stuff he posted.

'Nobody cares.' There is a homophobe who literally used to be in the band lol posting stuff within the past few years.

But in 2018, Paramore stepped away from performing to learn how to become more like a family after a famously volatile existence. This Is Why is their first album to be made by the same lineup as the previous one. There have been eight Paramore members and several high-drama exits - including Farro in 2010, alongside his brother Josh. The quitters usually smeared Williams on the way out: hers was the only name on the record contract she signed as a teenager, though she always fought Atlantic for Paramore to be a band, not a glorified solo project. The media revelled in the drama and potential for the band to self-destruct. All the while, Williams and corkscrew-curled, introverted guitarist Taylor York, 32, who joined in 2007, defiantly looked forward, stressing that the band had never been stronger.

Much of the new album draws from the trio's conversations from that period to look back at the environments they came from. They discussed growing up in the Bible belt. Williams moved from Mississippi to Tennessee when her mum fled her second husband. She met Farro through a homeschool programme, and he knew York. Early on, Paramore talked openly about being a Christian band, but now they are all at different stages of unravelling their relationship to faith, says Williams. "You're brought up being told something is ultimate, you unpack that and then find out that it's tangled up with some other random [BEEP] over here." She sighs: "Zac and Taylor are the most gentle and kind about it, whereas I feel like my teeth are knives and I'm spewing fire, trying to throw all of it over the side of a cliff. It's good to be challenged - like Taylor reminds me all the time, you can?t generalise. I can be very dualistic when it comes to good people and bad people, and a lot of the record talks about what it means that people aren't just that."

I think his solo career didn't work out so that became his new hobby plus pop punk musicians were always political really in one way or another. But I imagine he kind of felt emasculated since he was neither the frontman of the band nor was there a man. Women fronted bands also get way more attention (well there are exceptions but if they present reasonably femininely and are conventionally attractive then yeah.)

I sort of think this band were underrated but I dunno I haven't listened to most of their material but it's not as good as the cover she did with Garbage though it's still decent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhJ0n5G5jCo

I didn't realise that was a cover at first and was hoping for more stuff on that level lol. Her guitar solo was so good (OK it's not quite a solo but may as well be):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOmKGjy-Ct0

I think about this a lot lol.

and lots of men are bitter about that (the attention not the guitar solo lol.) There are lots of bands where guitarists get tons of attention too but honestly comparably Paramore wasn't really one of them imo. At least not on an equivalent level.

He had some fangirls but not a ton. Fangirls were mostly into the members of MCR etc at the peak of his career and I always found more people like 'I'd go gay for Hayley' then talking about the guys in the 2000s. She had bright orange hair and a bright orange microphone and was just very visually iconic in that way that commanded a lot of attention.

I think David Bowie figured that out a long time ago (with the bright orange hair specifically too.) But I wanted to listen to this song so I'm linking this:



"Men are very visual creatures"

Actually women are as well lol.

Oh god I just remembered that reddit post lol with the toddler who really loved the orange haired character and his dad was worrying if he was gay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcElJhDlPRM

Some of the reasons he thinks our son is gay:

He loves when the light shines through the window in a way that makes rainbows on the floor.

He was curious about my makeup and has tried to take my lipstick and eyeliner (it reminds him of crayons)

He generally prefers me to my husband

[...]

His favourite thing to do outside right now is look at the flowers that are blooming and touch them

My husband thinks he likes books too much for a boy (??)

There's also a character in one of the books that my son always points and smiles at, because he has bright orange hair (son's favourite color,) but my husband things he has a crush on the character... I don't even know what to say to that.

There was a really creepy brain worms sexualised point too that I'm leaving out.

From a sex appeal perspective Josh had little. From a musical perspective I always kind of liked the band there were several tracks I liked, but I wasn't a huge fan and wasn't sitting there ever thinking 'damn the guitar on this is amazing.' While listening to songs. I also didn't buy their albums.

Usually I notice bass lines for some reason if I'm going to contemplate anything on it's own, kind of a weirdo that way. I always was treating my guitar like a bass guitar back in the day but I also love this:





But admittedly I'm not going to lie to you I discovered this song first through this amazing cover... By someone feminine. With dyed pink hair.... So....



It was a good cover the 1:35 bit 10/10 but.

You see.

Even within the genre I just love this bass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XYU7uoN_tI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwVKj3whFcs

On this note I think more musicians should upload themselves playing individual parts of their songs because it will give people more appreciation of what they're doing.

But it's not a fair competition Green Day were definitely my favourite pop punk band and I used to address a diary I wrote to the members of the band as a teenager LOL. They were a very motivational band at that time in my life I found and so I appreciate them for that more than anything especially in hindsight. I don't see much that really feels the same now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxmAGklaKMk

Mike's bass lines will forever be overlooked

Nah what am I doing now lol?

Still man isn't Alex Lifeson or something you know. So what did he expect anyway? Let's all calm down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pE558olnPg

I do think a lot of things are as primitive as that too yeah. People are very emotional creatures. Lots of envy etc.

Tbh I feel more bad for his brother (drummer in the band,) because I'm very close to my brother and he's not an intolerant or bigoted person. I have some tension with my dad over politics but it's a bit different because you're not friends with your parents.

"It's been tough. You think when you're a kid you're gonna do everything together, and we did up to a certain point."

Essentially some people's approach is to minimally discuss and not highlight bigoted stuff and just do stuff like this to counteract it. I'm not generally that sensible being an easily angered person lol. Then someone who is out of the loop comes by and is like 'why do you keep talking about it?'

It's all very facepalm.

edit: There's something else too.

I think a lot of people are annoyed more by LGBT+ people talking about being LGBT+ than they are homophobes. They see it as more cringy. Part of this is that people hate obsessivenss as a personality trait. They appreciate it when it gets them things they want like scientific breakthroughts but they hate it when it just exists as a personality trait in someone who is reasonably unintelligent and just gets obsessed with x, y, z thing. And perhaps that's an evolutionary thing it can be dangerous in some contexts after all (serial killers are obsessive.)

The first clip says it all lol:



Also the way people just react to Spencer Reid both those characters are quite informative. Reid is a lot more intelligent though obviously.

If I had to guess I think they also see emotional reactions to the homophobia as showing the person is low status and they dislike that too. You are supposed to be stoic and not emotionally react to anything. Guys also get this treatment a lot.

So essentially one third of it is being annoyed that people have a special interest in LGBT+ topics and a dislike of people with autistic and ADHD traits, another third of it is the policing of emotion that masculine people do, and another third is just genuine homophobia/bigotry.

There might be some sexism I guess too in that it sometimes seems like society especially hates things women become obsessed with like Twilight and such but I dunno they really just hate anything weird and anyone who becomes obsessed in that way. Like bronies are hugely controversial:



Lol I love Louise's reaction 'we've discovered a new kind of man!'

The brony thing is interesting too because for a long while 'horse girls' were apparently a thing but that show seems to be more popular with guys or they get more visibility anyway.

Older fans of the show use the word brony, a portmanteau of the words "bro" and "pony".[30][31] Though this generally refers to male fans, the term is often applied to fans of any gender.[6] Another term, "Pegasister", has been used to refer to older female fans of the show.[32] Two informal surveys of 2,300 and 9,000 participants respectively revealed that the average age of adult fans is around 21, that approximately 86% were male, and that 63% were currently pursuing a college degree or higher qualification.[33][34][35][36] A subsequent 2013 survey with over 21,000 respondents showed similar numbers, and highlighted that the majority of fans were in the 15?30 age range, with the average age between 19 and 20, and over 65% were heterosexual. Further, using the Jungian personality test, the survey revealed that the largest fraction of respondents (approximately 27%) fell into the "INTJ" classification, which normally only occurs in 1-3% of the population, according to the surveyors.[37][36] Many in the fandom who had difficulty in meeting others or being treated fairly by others found the fandom as a way to meet people with similar interests and become more social.

A horse girl is someone whose entire personality revolves around horses. She's usually a pre-teen or teenager. She usually has braces, and is indifferent to fashion trends and completely unaware of how uncool she is. Her bedroom is covered in pictures of horses, her wardrobe is full of clothing with horses on it, and she probably collects model horses of some kind. She has an encyclopedic knowledge of different horse breeds, only consumes media about horses, and is pretty much incapable of holding a conversation without tying everything back to horses. If it sounds like I'm being pretty heavy-handed with the stereotypes here, I just want to clarify that this is a very accurate description of me as a kid.

Tbf I've never met this person in my life. I only ever came across one girl who had horses and rode them but I am from Luton so that makes sense. She wasn't a 'horse girl' either. But then, even if you don't ride them you can still be obsessed never met anyone like that either.

Personally horses aren't my thing. I mean I like them in the way I like most animals 'oh look there are some horses in a field let me go look at them' but no particular interest.

The special interest topics of girls with ASC may seem to differ less from those of neurotypical girls than do those of boys with ASC from neurotypical peers. A clinician who hears a child talk on and on about electricity pylons or trains may think of ASC, but hearing about a boy band or horses may not ring alarm bells. Girls' interests, for example, may have a more nurturing and social focus (such as working with animals, compiling celebrity facts or exhaustive photo albums); boys are more likely to focus on technical hobbies and facts. For both, there is a tendency to objectify, collect and systematise. Gould and Ashton-Smitt is not the special interests that differentiate them from their peers, but the quality and intensity of these interests and the length of time spent on these? So, careful questioning on interests and routines is important?

Oh. Lol. I didn't realise they were a thing like the trains. I don't have a special interest in trains though. I just like that Steven Wilson keeps writing about trains lol. Also he wanted to put an electricity pylon on one album cover and they told him no. But I don't think my interest in electricity pylons is the same either I just like them in an emotional/aesthetic sense. I also like cacti and deserts right now. But I would say my special interests are LGBT+ topics, sexuality discussion in general, and music. Oh I guess occult and mythology type stuff to some extent too.

Self diagnosing again xD tbf special interests aren't unique to autism they're just very common in autism so I'm also not but just relate to that aspect. When you're told you're an annoying person you want to find a reason too. But tbf some therapist supposedly told my dad once I should seek a disgnosis for autism but then I just never did lol. I mean even if I was diagnosed privately at the place she suggested I'd have to get an NHS diagnoses and jump through those hoops again if I wanted treatment. And there is no treatment really is there?

So that's what the conversation should actually be about but I suspect 'explicitly having a conversation about neurodivergence where you still get to insult people for being weirdos and cringe.' Isn't a good look.

And then on top of all of that it's hardly just an LGBT+ thing I mean:

"Mental illness? Babes,no, you're just in your masculine energy " STOP I CHOKED ON MY FRIES

Is that a frog and a mushroom combined into one creature in the background I see.

'Is this the cottagecore you speak of?'

Hahaha I love that.

"If a man asks you on a date what you bring to the table he's told you straight away that relationship cannot happen. That man is so deep in his feminine energy that you could probably sit down, learn from him how to be in it. Because even the concept of sitting down and thinking what can this person do for me and what do they bring to the table is so in his receiving energy.'

Tbh I'm still thinking of that twitter account I stumbled on recently with the guy who is promoting sex bots with the ulterior motive of trying to get women to become perfect trad wives by brainwashing guys to become antifeminist hardcore conservatives with a breeding kink. Forcing women into a decision to either conform or die is the goal supposedly. It falls apart because he doesn't have a monopoly over technology. I don't do blackmail so it's definitely a die from me. Extreme variant seemingly but not unpopular sentiment online. That guy has 20k+ followers. Lol seirously though. People really do just be aiming for evil genius status these days.

Because of that the idea of someone just asking that like it's a job interview would spook me and make me uncomfortable honestly. I mean I have a phobia of job interviews and the insanity I've seen online has probably caused some degree of trauma realistically. I actually think most young people are now traumatised in this way by digital psychopathy. But obviously on some level people are going to have certain preferences they want fulfilled.

I don't see it as feminine for either men or women to show up to a date like it's a job interview either. It seems pretty masculine to me and assertive.

Of course people can and do define these terms however they want though. That's the thing online.

[Nyctophilia]

My brother suggested we might be able to see the Northern Lights here because there's a geomagnetic storm right now. I didn't really think it could happen this far south I know you can see them in Northern England rarely. But apparently it can happen in other parts of the UK just unlikely and the best time to see it is at sunset or sunrise. So already missed that window.

People were posting photos from here and not even far away a couple of hours ago not sure if they posted them right after they took them man this sucks. Couldn't see anything from my window anyway.

[Nyctophilia]

"They are unironically proving the feminists right."

Well every group exists for a reason and they are the reason feminists exist. Most feminists especially hardcore misandric ones were always around a lot of men like that.

Also still can't believe we've gotten to a place over the past few years where people just casually bring up how women shouldn't have the right to vote constantly.

edit: Also why was she doing his university homework? just straight up cheating to get a degree. That's not traditional in the slightest either lol.

"So that story you would have heard a million times. I can even think of three people in my extended family who have a very very similar story to that."

I don't think so honestly in my family. Maybe my grandparents generation but not my parents, my generation, and well the next generation are still young kids lol so obviously not them.

I mean it helps that most of my family both male and female didn't exactly have a career lol. Lots of patchy employment in jobs that aren't exactly careers etc. My mum did though and she didn't give that up.

[Nyctophilia]

LGBT+ people have a high rate of mental illness mostly anxiety disorders and depression but the main people who come to mind who fit the profile of BPD are the LGBT+ people who come out as right wing because they didn't like how people in their community were treating them or who switch things up every 5 minutes like Oli London. Who is also one of those right wing LGBT+ people. Of course it's difficult to know when someone is simply grifting. One person actually was diagnosed with BPD who did this (not Oli London someone else, though I'm going to quote from his wikipedia below because there's a lot going on there.)

London has been a former supporter of the Black Lives Matter organisation.[12][13] He has since backtracked, and is now a vocal opponent of BLM and "woke culture".[14][non-primary source needed]

London describes himself as someone with "an obsessive and impulsive personality".[15] He practices speaking Korean with a private teacher every week.[12] He dated the French pornographic actress Angelique Morgan.[16][17] London has spoken of his poor relationships with family and friends and society's negative views towards him because of his racial identity. This eventually meant that he had difficulty finding a romantic relationship and caused him to become reclusive.[12]

Religion and spiritual beliefs

London is a former atheist.[18] Previously he was said to worship a cardboard cut-out of Jimin and even prayed to the singer.[19] He has criticised the Islamic doctrines of women's dress codes.[13] In November 2022, London announced his conversion to Christianity and his intention to be baptized in Catholic Church.[20]

Transracial identity

Although he is of White British descent, London has previously identified as South Korean.[21] His self-identification attracted worldwide attention[22][23] and stirred debate around the validity of being transracial compared to being transgender.[24][25] Sandra Song of Paper magazine accused him of fetishising South Korean culture, calling what he had done "incredibly offensive, especially since it effectively trivializes our identities because they're suddenly 'trendy.'"[26] London received death threats on the Internet for being "transracial"[27] but defended his identity as personal and said his intention was solely to appreciate the culture.[28][29] Others showed support for him. American activist Rachel Dolezal, who similarly attracted controversy due to her racial identity, stated that someone's personal identity (including London's) should not be other people's main concern.[30]

Gender and sexuality

London came out as non-binary during the Pride Month of 2021, announcing that he used they/them pronouns as well as neopronouns inspired by Korea and Jimin.[31]

In mid-2022, he came out as a genderfluid trans woman and announced plans to get further surgeries to look like Blackpink member Ros.[32][33]

In October 2022, he told E! News that he was detransitioning, saying that he wanted to "go back to being [his] original self--a biological man", and updated his Instagram bio to indicate that he uses he/him pronouns.[33] He thereafter affiliated himself with the anti-gender movement.[2] London's book Gender Madness was published in August 2023.[34]

Even then I don't know he just has traits. And this is based on him being a public figure and having been visible and written about by people for years. You can't just find some 19 year old on tiktok, watch one or two of their 20 second clip videos and decide 'ah yes this person has BPD.' Really you shouldn't be doing this on your large platform at all - very irresponsible.

Nevermind the fact that a lot of content creators online seem to be mentally ill in general. Whether they are LGBT+ or not.

'BPD is when you have intense changes in emotion.'

No that's not a good symptom to focus on at all. Very common in ADHD, autism, a ton of other disorders, the personality trait neuroticism which is just a personality trait, someone having a bad day and you shoving a camera in their face etc.

'impulsivity sexually, binge eating, wreckless driving etc'





Boom now they all have ADHD lol.

Make sense though these people also think BPD is the only mental health condition to exist lol. Well that and NPD.

Arielle at 4:46 just including someone's clothing tiktok essentially where they switch up different outfits and look pretty good honestly.

"BPD people are attracted to cults"

Not especially no honestly. Certainly not 'SO attracted to cults.' In all caps lol. I think probably people on the schizophrenia spectrum would be more likely from what I've read. It's a common part of the symptomology of schizotypal pd:

They may dress in eccentric ways. They are often drawn to cults, mystical gurus, gnostic forms of religion, and/or the occult, probably because these groups offer them confirmation of their odd experiences and perceptions.

Schizotypal symptomatology also shows some overlap with religious experience, and in many primitive societies schizophrenia is still interpreted within a religious or spiritual, rather than a medical, framework. Members of secret cults often show shared evidence of schizotypal symptomatology. This group involvement among religious followers occurs to such an extent that the DSM-III(R) diagnostic criteria (American Psychiatric Association, 1987) specifically exclude delusions which are the shared

Non-binary people tend to be creative and high openness, according to the minimal research that exists so far (similar personalities to bisexual people this is just trends obviously not true in every case,) and so you do get weird dress sense a lot, and so are schizotypal people.

So yes some people do have BPD and/or BPD traits but no it's probably not as common as both autism and schizophrenia spectrum conditions from what I've been observing.

Yeah this video is bad it seems to be part of the wider project to argue that all left wing people are mentally ill tbh anyway. Presumably as a means of eventual control. This is definitely going to come back to bite her eventually.

Right wing political folk online want to argue that left wing people especially women and especially single women are mentally ill. That being liberal in itself is a mental illness. They also want to argue that the LGBT+ community is a cult. There are so many posts about these things so she's really just arguing in favour of this incredibly common set of beliefs. They then are attempting to strip back various rights including eventually the right for women to vote.

They've picked BPD specifically imo because it has a reputation of being associated with the historical category of hysteria which has also been used to control women.

There's a female spree killer in the UK who got diagnosed with BPD. Granted I don't know her and I'm not a proffesional but I did find that sus honestly. She was also diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder so at least they acknowledged that. She seemed to fit that very well imo. Completely similar to male killers which is actually unusual in the first place. But she still got a BPD diagnoses. They basically never diagnose male killers with BPD unless they're homosexual like Dahmer.

After the trial it emerged that the Probation Service was supervising Dennehy at the time of the murders as she had been convicted of assault and owning a dangerous dog. It was later concluded that the staff dealing with her were inexperienced.[32][33]

In November 2013, Dennehy pleaded guilty to all three murders and two further attempted murders.[13][14] Her sister Maria was unsurprised by the guilty plea and said, "I think she did that to control the situation. She likes people to know she's the boss."[15]

Assessing psychiatrists later diagnosed Dennehy with psychopathic, anti-social and borderline personality disorders.[17] The trial began at the Old Bailey in London where Dennehy could be seen laughing during proceedings, stating, "I have pleaded guilty, and that's that" when questioned about her decision. At one point during her trial, Dennehy stood up and told presiding Mr. Justice Spencer "I don't wanna be controlled by anybody. I don't want to be controlled by my lawyers, by the police, by anybody."[18].

What struck me (and I'm thinking about it now because I notice these thought patterns in my own mind lol even in this post.) She was very driven by the desire to not be controlled by others and also to show she's the boss. Her sort of core emotional issue if you will isn't really BPD-like. Like she never seemed to be acting out of a fear of abandoment which is sort of the root for BPD. She feared other's control and domination over her. Which is a much more avoidant attatchment.

Seeing such a blatantly contradictory case like that really made me wonder. Of course again, I don't know her and I'm not a professional, maybe it makes sense. Maybe it's just confused by the fact that she also (clearly,) has ASPD. Weird though. And I do think it's overdiagnosed in women.

[Nyctophilia]

Oh that's weird lol. I was just posting about 'horse girls' yesterday and then saw this video:



I still think it's basically a 'special interest' that's more common among girls and young women than boys and young men. Like the female equivalent of trains or something. Women with autism also tend to have more socially appropriate autistic interests - like horses are normal - but just more intense obviously.

Since the end of the 20th century, there have been consistent but isolated accounts of the benefits that autistic people derive from contact with horses. Temple Grandin testifies to having spent a great deal of time observing horses and cows since childhood.[16] She started riding in the 1960s,[17] realizing that these large animals are often mistreated out of ignorance.[14] Riding and contact with horses calmed her anxieties and hyperactivity,[17] and she testifies that galloping calms her.[18] In France, several therapists work with autistic children using horses or ponies as mediators, including Isabelle Claude since the 1980s in Lorraine,[10] Claudine Pelletier-Milet at her riding hall in La Chapelle-Montligeon since 1999,[19] and Isabelle Chaveneau in Sevrey.[20] In 1989, D. Athy described the case of a horse that had been retired from racing and taken in by a home for autistic children. By caring for and riding the animal, the children's symptoms diminished. At the same time, the horse regained its performance and began racing again, its winnings being used to finance the center, in particular the purchase of other therapy horses for autistic children.[21]

I haven't finished watching the video yet so I don't know if anyone's going to bring that up.

Anecdotally easy to find discussion of people who are diagnosed too:

First of all, it's sexist as hell. If a man likes fish and goes fishing every weekend, he's a fisherman. If a guy enjoys deer and goes hunting all the time, he's a hunter. If a dude is obsessed with video games and spends all his free time making YouTube videos on how to 100% the game, he’s a gamer. But when have you ever heard a woman who likes horses and rides horses being called an equestrian? No, we’re “horse girls.” And we’re “crazy.”

I'm high-functioning autistic and my special interest is horses. I rode them growing up and really bonded with my gelding. I rode in shows and had quite the resume. I was always bullied for liking horses, though. The boys would make crude jokes about killing my horse with their shotgun and how I probably committed acts of bestiality. But did anyone make fun of the autistic boy who wouldn't stop talking about robots? Of course not. He was "scientific," and "imaginative." They definitely didn't call me an athlete, and that’s the "horse girl" stigma.

Now Hollywood is perpetuating this with a movie literally titled Horse Girl. They’re using mental illness and an overdone sexist stereotype to create entertainment. It’s sickening.

This whole thing makes my blood boil and I’ve since stopped being vocal about my special interest in fear of being judged or mocked. It’s upsetting how cruel humanity can be sometimes.

I would say that fishing isn't a stereotypical 'special interest' for men. If you instead compare how people treat 'anoraks' which is I think the term I remember my dad using for guys in the UK, that's closer to how people treat 'horse girls'

"Anorak" /ˈ?nər?k/ is a British slang term which refers to a person who has a very strong interest, perhaps obsessive, in niche subjects. This interest may be unacknowledged or not understood by the general public. The term is sometimes used synonymously with "geek" or "nerd", or the Japanese term "otaku", albeit referring to different niches.

The first use of the term to describe an obsessive fan has been credited to the radio presenter Andy Archer, who used the term in the early 1970s for fans of offshore radio, who would charter boats to come out to sea to visit the radio ships.[1]

In 1983, the first edition of the Anoraks UK Weekly Report was published, featuring news of pirate radio broadcasts.[2] In 1984 the Observer newspaper used the term as a metonym for the prototype group interested in detailed trivia, the trainspotters,[3] as members of this group often wore unfashionable but warm cagoules or parkas called "anoraks" when standing for hours on station platforms or along railway tracks, noting down details of passing trains.[4]

I actually thought this term was specifically for guys into trains but I guess it's more like otaku.

However I will say even though people are always going to dislike this and be assholes about it I think there's at least some vague awareness that these guys are likely to be neurodivergent but there's sort of a gaping black hole around the fact that oh these 'quirky attention seeking women' are as well.

It's so weird too like people will also often just assume that every special interest group like this is just... a woman thing? Maybe because there's more of a spectrum where they merge into regular female interests?

It leads to both misunderstanding of women, and misunderstanding of neurodivergence in women and afab people in general tbh.

And I see this in other areas too like sexuality. We treat bisexual women and trans masc people as though they are sexologically identical to cisgender straight women. Now granted people use language and labels in very different ways but in general - no actually. Research doesn't suggest they are.

Also yeah I think there's a kind of association with horses and independence or something. Sort of see this represented in film sometimes like:



Was this an excuse to post a clip of this because I like the soundtrack of the film? It was. I was trying to find the opening scene but close enough.

i feel like a part of the reason why society looks down on animal-obsessed women (especially for cat-ladies), is bc the implication of an "animal-lady" is, that she doesnt have kids. and if a women doesnt have kids - then what is she, even??!?!?!?! you know, something like that.

Yeah that is another reason. It's associated with not marrying and not having kids.

Lol it was funny in the video about feminine energy when one woman was talking about cat and dog people and arguing you should be like a cat to get a dog guy or something.

I think I prefer cat personalities though. What if you want a cat4cat relationship?

tiktok in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlVe12Lzumk

I think it's a whole theory lol:

This doesn't work with all men. I've lost great guys because of my aloofness

I would argue this probably doesn't work with most men lol.

Just makes me think of April and Andy from parks and rec tbh lol:



Something I like about this is how you can and people do simultaneously argue that dogs are like men and cats are like women and cats are feminine but cats are also masculine in a lot of ways and dogs are feminine stereotypically speaking. There's an inherent contradiction.

Kurt Cobain had some thoughts:

"I became obsessed with turtles. I bought six of them and put them in a bathtub. They show no emotion, they're so inanimate. It's the complete opposite of what dogs are, I can't stand dogs, they're too willing to please. I like cats. Animals that require attention. Turtles have this [BEEP] you attitude, 'I'm stuck in this tank, I'm miserable and I'm not going to perform for you.'"

I don't hate dogs though they can be cute etc. I'm thinking of personality traits in Humans.

I feel like bunny guys are more sexually appealing too if thinking about submissive archetypes.

Actually though this is too simplistic (shocking lol) I like whimsical and quirky traits a lot as well. When I was younger I had a habit of finding 'manic pixie dream guys' attractive (in fiction or musicians one guy irl loosely fit that,) although I think with Andy who fits into that archetype he doesn't quite work for me because he's not my physical type at all and some other stuff. If anything I think the most attractive male character on the show is probably Orin for me lol but he wasn't a fully fleshed out character:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G96uTrEPkY

He looks like someone I would have dated or tried to date in uni anyway.

[Nyctophilia]

There's some music that keeps playing here loudly outside that sounds good but there are no lyrics and I'm too lazy to like record it and use shazam or one of those apps.

...

sorry but I just don't actually believe that society *universally* centers and lauds attraction to men, and my forever broken teeth are pretty convincing evidence of that, personally

I've essentially gone from lesbian-passing to gay-man-passing in many situations and the vocal homophobia has increased for sure.

(These two tweets are from different people btw.)

I don't think anyone praises it and I think attraction to men is viewed as universally worse and demeaning in some sense. But I think when people say it's centred they are pointing to the phallocentrism that exists. Like the same reason people argue that two women can't have sex, that sex has to include a dick, that bisexual men are gay and bisexual women are straight and so on.

Society wants (at least femme) people to be agreeable to men's wants, but it doesn't want people to *actually* be attracted to men in anyway that leads to self actualization. Genuinely thinking the latter is almost insincere

Something like that yeah.

Everyone calling this take lesbiphobic is frankly extending the patriarchy too much grace.

The patriarchy doesn't give a [BEEP] whether lesbians are sexually attracted to men, as long as they are sexually available.

I dislike the term patriarchy in this context because I don't think it's related. Some cultural trends are really just ways to pressure people into reproduction not to further male power but because Humans are somewhat eusocial and definitely social and so try to attempt to encourage everyone to reproduce so that people don't go extinct and their tribal groups can expand and so on. It's a safety thing. That's why you see people who feel their ethnic group is threatened engage in this behaviour more than others.

That's not to say there aren't a bunch of sexist men who want power over women (that describes 75% of right wing twitter at this point lol.) I just don't think that everything people describe as patriarchy is that. Some of it seems to be serving a different purpose evolutionarily speaking.

But anyway yeah if you make it obvious to other people that you refuse certain sexual acts or behaviours others will try to pressure you into doing that.

I am a transexual woman who has experienced significant amounts of homophobic violence for my attraction to men. I am not a man

yes but that's because you're trans not because you're a woman who?s attracted to men. trans women who are attracted to woman face equal amounts of violence, because society is just inherently violent to trans women

I think the violence is because she's trans. I think people in general are shamed for their attraction to and sexual behaviour involving men. Including cis women. Here's a great example from Megan Fox:

"I have no question in my mind about being bisexual. But I'm also a hypocrite: I would never date a girl who was bisexual, because that means they also sleep with men, and men are so dirty that I'd never want to sleep with a girl who had slept with a man,"

Some guy on reddit had a viewpoint about this. It was a thread about bisexual men and bisexuality more generally I guess:

I've settled this a million times. The Penis is the slut maker and corruptor. Both sexes find anyone who gets fucked as a slut. Thats how women see bi men and how straight men see slutty women the same exact thing that makes women biphobic is the same energy that makes men slut shame.

When women slut shame its because of the [BEEP] cartel and price cutting so its coming from a different place. This is why although women slut shame a ton they still defend other women from male slut shaming because its coming from a different place the exact place where womens biphobia comes from (they don't like the idea of their lover getting fucked by a dude).

The sooner y'all accept this the more the world will make a bit of sense as usual with all of my insights you're welcome.

The Penis-as-the-defiler theory also explains "bottom-shaming" in the gay world, as well as the "Mediterranean Bisexuality" (i.e. "its not gay unless you're the bottom") mindset.

That said, if the penis-as-the-defiler attitude really is the driving force behind these feelings (including the slut-shaming of women), then we should be campaigning against that attitude because it is deeply misandric.

Idealistically yes if you want to be a consistent liberal. But I don't waste time fighting natural inclinations.

One woman said this:

the last thing women need is having to compete with men, the sex that will [BEEP] anything at any time, anywhere

I'm convinced this is the real reason women hate bi men.

Men having sexual freedom scares them.

My thoughts exactly. If loyalty is absolutely crucial to me and I'm developing a new relationship, last thing I need is to worry about a partner with twice the population he can potentially cheat with.

And what if we do establish something and he decides he wants a man, well I can't exactly help in that department. It just seems like extra headache.

A lot of the discussion in that thread was about women seeing bisexual men as more feminine and that being the offputting part I disagree with that and think the above comments are more important as the core reason. Like people are sexually threatened by men and engaging with men sexually turns you into some kind of 'slut.' I think the masculinity thing might be more important to straight women though and the study the OP posted was on straight women and I can't really speak for them.

"Heterosexual and gay/lesbian people were less willing to date bisexual people than bisexual people were to date them, consistent with anti-bisexual bias rather than mere in-group preference. Preferences against dating bisexual men appeared particularly strong, even among bisexual women."

"Results indicated that heterosexual women rated bisexual men as less sexually and romantically attractive, less desirable to date and have sex with, and less masculine compared to straight men. No such differences were found for heterosexual and gay men?s ratings of female and male profiles, respectively. These results support previous research findings that indicate more negative attitudes toward dating bisexual men than bisexual women."

"These findings extend previous research by demonstrating that negative attitudes toward bisexuals may translate to less willingness to have sex with, date, or be in a relationship with bisexual partners. The differences in willingness between heterosexuals and bisexuals as well as between LGs and bisexuals were stronger for women than men, suggesting that lesbians and heterosexual women may be more concerned than gay and heterosexual men about bisexual partners"

I think this research should to put to rest the idea that men are the ones upholding masculine norms, not women.

I also think this is somewhat cultural/environmental and based on certain insecurities that can develop. So I want to challenge the idea that it's natural at least for everyone. Because I remember a time where I didn't care about this at all I used to think like 'oh having a bisexual boyfriend would be fun we can talk about guys' (probably not honestly I have very limited niche preferences but yeah lol,) and I had no viewpoint on bisexual women really and then I was in some discord servers with some trans women for a while and one was dating a non-binary person and kept talking about her sexual attraction to men. She wasn't really into them romantically but a lot of the conversations I was exposed to at that point online including her were from people who felt that having sex with men and especially like masculine cis men somehow validated their womanhood and femininity so her partner couldn't do that. So that began to bother me a lot. So I think it's like an ego thing as well.

Not that I would refuse to date someone who is bisexual and I guess this is tangential but I can see why it would make people insecure and I think it's interrelated.

also just think some of you need to really consider the implications of claiming [BEEP] alienation is due to not being attracted to men.

I don't think anyone would say that as a universal statement applying to everyone?

kicked out of the lezsep commune for getting double teamed by two gay guys who needed a way to be mutual tops

true story there were some old school lezseps who said you could [BEEP] men as long as you didn't catch feelings. they considered this a way to preserve your "amazon virginity"

I sat for a while wandering what lezsep meant but then realised they mean lesbian separatists lol.

I do not want a feminism that feels comfortable and safe for lesbians, I want one that feels comfortable and safe for hookers and f?gg?ts and deviants and crazies and addicts. I want to embrace safety and comfort as a world that is uncomfortable and scary and dangerous to you

if you're not a degenerate deviant hedonistic [BEEP] and sinner, then what is the point of you

Why are you feeding into this dichotomy?

When you reinvent the madonna/whore dichotomy but use lesbian and gay as poles lmfao.

I've been seeing it from many people culturally.

I've always though the sex worker is the constructed ideal of trans women in the same way the housewife is for cis women

And now you've split it between cis and trans women.

Men will do it with women they're attracted to, bisexual women will do it when they're only sexually into women but romantically into men and so on. I'm not criticising the preference as such I don't think people have that much control over it honestly (I know I don't,) but it develops all the same.

I mean, personally, I barely interact with any cis ppl in my life. and that seems more relevant than the fact that I'm, functionally at least, a lesbian

I'm very confused by this person lol.

Is she trying to say she's bisexual?

functionally I am a lesbian in that I've never actually had a boyfriend and rarely hookup with guys, but the way some people are absolute freaks about the label and how and who uses it makes me not ever want to use it

Makes a lot of sense.

didn't matter how bisexual my gf was or how much she loved my feminine side, it didn't remove that pressure. most (tho not all) of that pressure came from outside the relationship

I could brush off ppl saying shitty things abt me being this faggy girly boy, but not so much ppl saying it to my gf. I felt I had to tone it down for her and also coz she'd defend me by insisting how much I'm not a fag, which also felt bad coz I was like, well I am a bit!

horrible no win situation

every bisexual trans woman is like "i rly want a boyfriend :( when will I find a beautiful man :(" and every bisexual cis woman is like "i would NEVER choose to be attracted to men but alas I am cursed with this affliction and so continue to date them"

LOL

This is definitely the trend.

I love that british no-shemales-allowed lesbian bar so much like yeah lesbians in general are already extremely well known for how much they love to leave the house and have fun and go to bars so like I can only imagine how fun and cool the obsessively transphobic ones are

I love that I saw some bit of an interview going "there's only 3 lesbian bars in all the UK so that's why I felt I had to do this!" and it's like, oh yeh you're definitely gonna succeed where others failed by going into it with a cop mindset and courting weird right wingers

Wow that's crazy.

'We do like a rave!' Inside the UK's last lesbian bars

It really gives these vibes:



I love this music so much.



This is manipulative but it's also why I don't think 'stop making your sexuality into your identity' is useful or grasps the situation.

"We lost our physical spaces," says Taylor, talking about LGBTQ+ community. 'When I was in my 20s, and 30s, you could go out every night to a different type of bar or gay bar across London.

"There's one lesbian bar left in London, just one. I think we've regressed because we've lost the ability to be in the same space with one another, and so we are atomized into different opposing arguments and ever smaller identities."

"The book wants to be a bridge between all those identities. It's a call for unity, we need to come together. I'm really hoping it's beginning to do that." Coming from a "working class community", Taylor had "no access to the arts at all".

For her, music was an inspiration "punk music, and the lyrics to punk, particularly from people like Crass". "I got into it for having a really bad attitude, but one poem leads to another," she adds.

I saw this recently too lol in the description of a video by Louise Perry titled 'where have all the lesbians gone?':

We spoke about why so many women have stopped identifying as lesbians and started identifying as non-binary and bisexual,

There are people who id as both non-binary and lesbian but in general people are gatekept from the lesbian identity or it doesn't apply to them, and believe me the issue isn't people wanting to avoid that label from what I've seen online.

Also afaik the number of people identifying as lesbian has gone up over time anyway but depends on what time period and data you're looking at I guess (and region probably,) but you know lesbians are rare and it's more rare than other sexualities.

Yesterday I stumbled on this discourse about gay male sex positions that for some reason seemed to end up on everyone's timeline lots of people were like 'why is this on my timeline' lol I removed a post about it before but I'm thinking about this response again now lol:

There is literally no other place than the gay side of Twitter where you'll find [BEEP] like this 😭

The whole discourse was insane and really volatile lol. Kind of fascinating honestly how explosive it was.

This is what triggered it:

this might be shocking, but [BEEP] men DO NOT have to adhere to the heterosexual norm of penetration = sex

Because what we finna do ?
Sword fight 🥴

I compared it to this lol:



So yeah fun.

[Nyctophilia]

I do not want a feminism that feels comfortable and safe for lesbians, I want one that feels comfortable and safe for hookers and f-gg-ts and deviants and crazies and addicts. I want to embrace safety and comfort as a world that is uncomfortable and scary and dangerous to you

if you're not a degenerate deviant hedonistic [BEEP] and sinner, then what is the point of you

I love that british no-shemales-allowed lesbian bar so much like yeah lesbians in general are already extremely well known for how much they love to leave the house and have fun and go to bars so like I can only imagine how fun and cool the obsessively transphobic ones are

I love that I saw some bit of an interview going "there's only 3 lesbian bars in all the UK so that's why I felt I had to do this!" and it's like, oh yeh you're definitely gonna succeed where others failed by going into it with a cop mindset and courting weird right wingers

I'm not very one sided in general but I do have to say this mentality you find below is completely unappealing. Like completely. From the woman complaining that the OP said she wants to have sex with women to the implication that celibacy is automatically connected to being a lesbian (she didn't say she was a lesbian either,) the whole thing has sex negative vibes there's the dislike and personal issues they have with trans women as well and they blame people avoiding lesbian spaces on trans women like white rectionary men blame foreigners for stealing their jobs and women, it's so unsexy and I feel like I morph into Camille Paglia just reading this. But you know the version of Camille Paglia that's pro trans. The darkest timeline Camille Paglia if you will.

After 20 years of being a crap, intermittent heterosexual, I have come to the realisation that I really do want to explore the possibility of shagging other women. Internet dating feels too full on, so really I would much prefer to get to know more lesbians and see if anything happens. However, from other recent threads it sounds like the whole scene has become very divided given the whole trans debate. I don't want to join any groups which are bound up in TWAW-type rhetoric.

Any views/experiences would be really welcome. I live in London and do have a couple of lesbian friends, but they are pretty settled and not really part of a wider scene. Thank you!

your post said it all and I too am angry and sad about what we had and did which we can no longer do, I remember in the 70s the women’s monthly events when we could all be together, straight and lesbian having a good time, the place in Camden too in the eighties with live acts sometimes. The men have spoiled it all, and I’m y heart aches for w9men and young lesbians especially in these times. But thank you for all you did...

The BBC piece about lesbian bars is actually really nice, though it evades any discussion of why they are so rare now, which makes it ring slightly hollow in the light of the posts above on this issue.

I started to reply in what I hope was a supportive manner but couldn't get over the phrase "possibility of shagging other women" so gave up.

But I think there is quite a long conversation to be had about how women who are celibate, are in fact on the start of a journey towards becoming lesbian.

It's just kind of funny to me I know she's pretty offensive and I've gotten pissed off by various things she's said but it's funny because she just sounds so frantic all the time:

That is such bullshit. Women are socialized to be sensory, sexual creatures. Everything from the makeup you put on to the stockings you put on. You're being trained to be sensual. There are so many cliches in the air. So much garbage in the air, that's why I'm so valuable, whether you like me or not, I just cut through the crap and say "that’s bullshit!" I’m not saying we should give up lesbianism, I'm saying I want more lesbianism, much more! What I don’t like right now is that straight women are afraid to have sex with another woman because, "Oh, then I'll be gay." You're not gay just because you have sex with another woman! I want to break down the barrier between gay and straight. It’s false! As a historian of sexuality, that’s a false dichotomy, this gay/straight bullshit. That’s not true!

and it's like "And the lesbians are so boring and unsexy and can't make good porn and gay men are so creative and I love drag queens and dicks and we have to make more lesbians and I travelled around the whole of Europe and no women wanted to have sex with me and-"

Someone online described her as a gay man trapped inside a lesbians body lol.

I get it though that's what happens when you're too risk averse.

"Well," she says, "I was always cautious. I was also cautious about drugs and I'm glad I was, because my generation destroyed itself on psychedelic drugs. If my work looks odd, or sui generis, it's because people whose work should have been a context for my work lost the capacity to write."

Tbf I don't think the problem is that they don't want to appear gay. Maybe that was an issue in the past I dunno. This is an old interview from like the 90s I think.

I mean consider from the thread with the other stuff I quoted about the woman who is looking for women to have sex with:

OP, you might like to consider the fact that this:
"I have come to the realisation that I really do want to explore the possibility of shagging other women"
is unlikely to get you very far with any of the lesbians I know.

Perhaps I'm harsh but lesbians have always known the perils of straight women wanting to experiment with them and these days we have the extra complication of transbians infiltrating every group. You actually need to like the company of women-focussed women, OP, and be sensitive to what is now a beleaguered and underground community.

Paglia actually touches on something important here but because she likes to essentialise all the time people just get pissed off and don't listen so I actually don't think her approach is useful but I think it's important so I think it would be good if people:

1. stop denying this because of sex negativity

2. don't extend it to literally all women

Well actually I think the problem is that she essentialises based on sex too much and not enough based on sexuality. So it's not just that. But no I'm not writing another essay on all her ideas oh my god. Just the parts that are relevant to this post.

Women, I think, are naturally bisexual. You know I'm not telling lesbians to stop sleeping only with women, but to leave open a part of the brain toward men and accept male lust and find men extremely attractive and get horny in relation to men and ogle their bodies and do something with them, then sex with women will be hotter.

I'm assuming they can't and that she might as well ask them to become men. Because they're not naturally bisexual.

She's obviously 'mostly homosexual' though and so she thinks like a bisexual. Because she's not a lesbian in the sense below (not the colloquial sense where you pick a label to be pragmatic or something. She alternated between labelling herself bisexual and lesbian over the years anyway):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25808718/

Bisexuals reported higher sexual arousal and desire for women than heterosexuals and lesbians, while lesbians reported lower sexual arousal and desire with men than the other groups. Heterosexuals and mostly heterosexuals scored higher on the male than on the female motivational dimension of the SADI, while the reverse was found for lesbians and mostly lesbians. Findings indicate that non-monosexuals have higher sexual arousal and desire in sexual activities with women than monosexuals. Further, bisexual women did not differentiate their sexual arousal with men versus women, while the other sexual orientation groups differentiated in terms of their motivation to engage in sexual activity. These findings may have implications for how female sexual orientation is conceptualized

In a series of studies, Lippa (2006, 2007) has found that for most women (lesbians may be an exception), high sex drive is positively correlated with attraction to both men and to women (supporting the hypothesis that attraction may be bi-dimensional). Further, in that study, bisexual women reported higher general sex drive than both lesbian and heterosexual women. If there is indeed a link between non-monosexuality and higher sex drive, then one would expect there to be greater similarity between the sexual arousal and desire of mostly heterosexual, mostly lesbian, and bisexual women than between any of these groups and either lesbians or heterosexuals.

It is noteworthy that in the current study, bisexual women reported higher sexual arousal and desire but also more aversion. Future studies should further explore which mechanisms may be related to both high positive and high negative sexual arousal.

For sexual contact with women, bisexual women reported the highest sexual arousal and desire of all the sexual orientation groups and at levels significantly higher than both lesbian and heterosexual women. However, the three non-monosexual groups did not differ from each other, which suggests that these women's subjective sexual experiences with women may be more similar to each other than to those of heterosexual and to lesbian women.

However, in our study, bisexual women reported higher levels of sexual arousal and desire toward women than the lesbian women did. Illustratively, Vrangalova and Savin-Williams (2012) found that mostly heterosexual and mostly lesbian women were equally high in opposite and same-sex sexuality as heterosexual and lesbian women, implying that being less exclusive does not mean less attraction to men or to women, as would be expected if sexual orientation is one dimensional.

Lippa (2007) argued bisexual women's high sex drive may "energize latent same-sex attractions (or other-sex attractions), and it is possible that the same mechanism may be at work for mostly heterosexual and mostly lesbian women. In short, the finding that the lesbian women in this research did not report higher sexual arousal and desire toward women than the heterosexual women did could be a reflection of a generalized lower sex drive among monosexual than non-monosexual women.

Even if the bisexual women in the current study reported higher levels of sexual arousal and desire than the hetero- sexual and lesbian women did, they did not proclaim a greater number of total sexual partners, more frequent masturbation, or elevated levels of weekly sexual desire. In short, the current research does not support the stereotype that bisexual women are sexually promiscuous (Israel & Mohr, 2004; Rust, 1995, 2000). In sum, bisexual women may have the "best of both worlds," in that they report high levels of arousal and desire, without this translating into promiscuity

That's not the best of both worlds. Also anecdotally at points in my life I have done this more often compared to the average reported in some surveys etc. I think maybe for guys too... But it's not just desire it's also just that orgasms feel good so why wouldn't you?

I can tell I'm going to be quoting this paper for years lol it was so revelatory for me.

[Nyctophilia]

That eye makeup is great.

[Nyctophilia]

Oh LOL really? That's a guy in this band?:



And Miley Cyrus's brother apparently.

Also Jeffree Star makes an appearence in this video tbf he hanged out and/or appeared in tons of music videos in the 2000s but still that's cursed.

I don't do only fans or date guys with face tattoos.

No of course he's a fuckboy hypocrite lol. He looks exactly like someone Ashnikko would write a song about LOL



"Just joking he's a pretty good looking dude."

I'm sure there's a market for him but he's the opposite of my type lol.

And that's being nicer to him than he deserves.

From 2010 into 2017, Cyrus had an on-and-off relationship with actress Brenda Song, to whom he was engaged in 2011.[23][24][25][26][27]

Miley Cyrus's Brother, Trace, Said He'd Be "Much More Successful" If He Wasn't Part Of Their Family As He Opened Up About His Complicated Relationship With His Siblings’ And Parents’ Fame

I get why he's doing this now.

Some twitter user:

It's cool, ur gfs can come makeout with me and sit on my face while ur busy mansplaining what women should do with their bodies and lives.

Oh honey it looks like he doesn't have any lol.

I mean Miley's a better singer and divorcing your family won't stop your music sounding like emo with all the good parts stripped out.