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  1. #31
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    Quote Cuchculan View Post
    @Otherside you can explain this one.

    Attachment 5008
    We have that problem on our southern border with Mexico. They're letting just about everyone in - and the embarrassment at the NATO meeting. Good God - I didn't vote for him!

  2. #32
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    Lot of Africans trying to get into the UK claiming they are refugees from the Ukraine. They did move to the Ukraine. But as they have a country to go back to, if they want, they are not refugees.
    The Lovable Irish Rogue

  3. #33
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    Quote Cuchculan View Post
    Lot of Africans trying to get into the UK claiming they are refugees from the Ukraine. They did move to the Ukraine. But as they have a country to go back to, if they want, they are not refugees.
    We are going to take 100,000 Ukraine refugees! Put them in hotels with Afghani refugees!

    I sense a nasty globalist theme here, guys. The next thing I am hearing about is food shortages due to the fertilizier industry being blocked from leaving Russia.

  4. #34
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    Quote Ironman View Post
    We are going to take 100,000 Ukraine refugees! Put them in hotels with Afghani refugees!

    I sense a nasty globalist theme here, guys. The next thing I am hearing about is food shortages due to the fertilizier industry being blocked from leaving Russia.
    So, what do you propse exactly? We let Russia continue to operate as usual despite it carpet bombing Ukraine? Military intervention, as much as some people want it, is a bad idea as Russia is a nuclear power. Can't risk the nuclear war. All we can do really is sanction them into oblivion.

    I'm less worried about fertilizer - there are alternate sources, which we need to move towards. Make our own instead of relying on it coming from there. Should never have been reliant on Russia to begin with. None of us should have been.

    More worried about the fact that Ukraine supplies a large amount of food to Europe/mid-east, which won't be happening thanks to Russia.
    I'M GONNA FIGHT 'EM ALL
    A SEVEN NATION ARMY COULDN'T HOLD ME BACK.......


  5. #35
    Otherside's Avatar
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    Quote Cuchculan View Post
    Lot of Africans trying to get into the UK claiming they are refugees from the Ukraine. They did move to the Ukraine. But as they have a country to go back to, if they want, they are not refugees.
    Was a strange one. Few Nigerian students who were living in Ukraine on a Temporary visa, crossed into Poland to flee the invasion. Then went to France and tried to chunnel or ferry to the UK. Were told they needed a visa (Nigerians always have done, so I don't know why this is surprising news?), and they could not apply for a Ukrainian refugee visa scheme as they were not Ukrainian citizens. Have a safe country to return to, which the Ukrainians don't. What was it, said -

    Nationality - Nigerian.
    Studying in - Ukraine
    Which was invaded by - Russia
    Fled to - Poland
    Now in - France
    Country at Fault - ...the UK?
    I'M GONNA FIGHT 'EM ALL
    A SEVEN NATION ARMY COULDN'T HOLD ME BACK.......


  6. #36
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    Quote Otherside View Post
    So, what do you propse exactly? We let Russia continue to operate as usual despite it carpet bombing Ukraine? Military intervention, as much as some people want it, is a bad idea as Russia is a nuclear power. Can't risk the nuclear war. All we can do really is sanction them into oblivion.

    I'm less worried about fertilizer - there are alternate sources, which we need to move towards. Make our own instead of relying on it coming from there. Should never have been reliant on Russia to begin with. None of us should have been.

    More worried about the fact that Ukraine supplies a large amount of food to Europe/mid-east, which won't be happening thanks to Russia.
    Yeah, more food shortages.
    I doubt Russia is going to be able to do anything about fertilizer, unless they make bombs with it.
    We need to keep giving them an arsenal and keep the sanctions tightening.

    Our old fart President was the one who shut down our domestic oil production. Trump has us EXPORTING oil for the first time and undercutting OPEC and Russia. Putin couldn't afford to attack Ukraine. Trump ends up being called the bad guy because he violating the Greenpeace crap.
    Ukraine is fighting to avoid RE-Communism. Too many of us (including myself) have been affected by the Hell Putin is trying to reinstitute. De-nuclearizing Ukraine ended up hurting them.

    My country's hands are tied because my President needs to be in a nursing home.

  7. #37
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    Do you not get the part that nobody is doing any trade with Russia. I am sure Russia might have a lot of things they will be stuck with, because nobody will be buying anything from them. That is the whole idea of trade sanctions. There are even more sanctions on the way. Case of looking at what else can be hit. Leaving Russia out in the cold all by itself.

    Putin would have attacked the Ukraine even if Trump was in power. That part makes no difference at all. Let us pretend Trump is in power. He would want to use nukes. Who would Russia fire nukes back at? Not America. Something closer to home. Which would probably be Europe. Hence nobody wants to see nukes used at all. We would come off worse in Europe.
    The Lovable Irish Rogue

  8. #38
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    Quote Ironman View Post
    Yeah, more food shortages.
    I doubt Russia is going to be able to do anything about fertilizer, unless they make bombs with it.
    We need to keep giving them an arsenal and keep the sanctions tightening.

    Our old fart President was the one who shut down our domestic oil production. Trump has us EXPORTING oil for the first time and undercutting OPEC and Russia. Putin couldn't afford to attack Ukraine. Trump ends up being called the bad guy because he violating the Greenpeace crap.
    Ukraine is fighting to avoid RE-Communism. Too many of us (including myself) have been affected by the Hell Putin is trying to reinstitute. De-nuclearizing Ukraine ended up hurting them.

    My country's hands are tied because my President needs to be in a nursing home.
    Giving money to Russia is funding there war machine. The sanctions are an attempt to cut off the incoming money that is funding the war machine. Its access to foreign currency reserves are now limited thanks to the freezing of its dollar reserves. It won't have the funding to continue with its war for much longer.

    Canada is the worlds largest supply of fertilizer, you can get it from there. This is a case of "we wanted it cheap so we went to Russia." Canads also less likely to use withholding essetial supplies as a political weapon to get what it wants, as Russia tried with the gas it sent to Germany.

    Russia is far from a communist country at this point. More a kleptocracy. This is an act of Russia wants Ukraine because it considers Ukraine to be a part of Russia. Europe today is still dealing with the consequences of the Iron Curtain and the cold war, so we know full well what is at stake here.

    Most of Europe would have still gone to Russia due to distance, or in the case of Germany, due to an idiotic belief that trading with Russia would somehow lead to regime change because of its bizarre interpretation of how the cold war ended. Far too many countries naive about what Russia was that now cannot get off Russian imports easily. When it should have been obvious to all 2014.

    Agree with you on America should stop electing pensioners. Do you not have anyone under 50 who can do it?
    I'M GONNA FIGHT 'EM ALL
    A SEVEN NATION ARMY COULDN'T HOLD ME BACK.......


  9. #39
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    Quote Cuchculan View Post
    Putin would have attacked the Ukraine even if Trump was in power. That part makes no difference at all. Let us pretend Trump is in power. He would want to use nukes. Who would Russia fire nukes back at? Not America. Something closer to home. Which would probably be Europe. Hence nobody wants to see nukes used at all. We would come off worse in Europe.
    I wish more over there would get this.

    Trump would do this, Bush that, Obama this. Not everything happens based on who is the US president. Building up for years, this. Not the first Russian invasion to take place.

    We had separatists backed in Moldova (Transnitria), Georgia (South Ossetia and Abkhazia.) Two Chechen wars leading to the annexation of the Chechen Republic. A war in Georgia in 2008, after which the Georgians living in South Ossetia were ethnically cleansed. Then in 2014, Russia annexed Crimea, and backed separatists in Luhansk and Donetsk. Tried to do the same in Kharkiv, but failed. Tried to organize a coup in Montenegro in 2016, also failed.

    Then there is the Novichok chemical weapon use in Salisbury in 2018 (and if we want to go there with Trump, he spent his time alternating between "it wasnt Russia" and "I approve." And you wonder why we don't like him much), Radiation poisoning used here in 2006.

    Got a sternly worded letter for all of that. Maybe had Russian diplomats expelled for a few months. Why would Ukraine have been different.
    I'M GONNA FIGHT 'EM ALL
    A SEVEN NATION ARMY COULDN'T HOLD ME BACK.......


  10. #40
    Ironman's Avatar
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    Quote Otherside View Post
    I wish more over there would get this.

    Trump would do this, Bush that, Obama this. Not everything happens based on who is the US president. Building up for years, this. Not the first Russian invasion to take place.

    We had separatists backed in Moldova (Transnitria), Georgia (South Ossetia and Abkhazia.) Two Chechen wars leading to the annexation of the Chechen Republic. A war in Georgia in 2008, after which the Georgians living in South Ossetia were ethnically cleansed. Then in 2014, Russia annexed Crimea, and backed separatists in Luhansk and Donetsk. Tried to do the same in Kharkiv, but failed. Tried to organize a coup in Montenegro in 2016, also failed.

    Then there is the Novichok chemical weapon use in Salisbury in 2018 (and if we want to go there with Trump, he spent his time alternating between "it wasnt Russia" and "I approve." And you wonder why we don't like him much), Radiation poisoning used here in 2006.

    Got a sternly worded letter for all of that. Maybe had Russian diplomats expelled for a few months. Why would Ukraine have been different.
    Actually, despite all of the crap our Democratic Party did to Trump, Putin didn't do anything. Trump would not have been able to have any communication with him or our lefties would have had wild convuslions on the floor like the Exorcist Girl.
    He invaded Georgia at the end of the Bush Presidency (and into Obama in 2009) when his ratings were bad and we were sliding into the recesssion that Obama never got us out of. Crimea was Obama, Donbas was Biden. THe SOB bit off more than he could chew and the world sees it!

  11. #41
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    Quote Otherside View Post
    I wish more over there would get this.

    Trump would do this, Bush that, Obama this. Not everything happens based on who is the US president. Building up for years, this. Not the first Russian invasion to take place.

    We had separatists backed in Moldova (Transnitria), Georgia (South Ossetia and Abkhazia.) Two Chechen wars leading to the annexation of the Chechen Republic. A war in Georgia in 2008, after which the Georgians living in South Ossetia were ethnically cleansed. Then in 2014, Russia annexed Crimea, and backed separatists in Luhansk and Donetsk. Tried to do the same in Kharkiv, but failed. Tried to organize a coup in Montenegro in 2016, also failed.

    Then there is the Novichok chemical weapon use in Salisbury in 2018 (and if we want to go there with Trump, he spent his time alternating between "it wasnt Russia" and "I approve." And you wonder why we don't like him much), Radiation poisoning used here in 2006.

    Got a sternly worded letter for all of that. Maybe had Russian diplomats expelled for a few months. Why would Ukraine have been different.
    Putin wouldn’t have invaded with Trump because the US was an energy exporter and undercutting Russian gas before Biden!! Russia wouldn’t have been able to afford to start it! Trump was known as a hardliner too and probably intimidated Putin as a wildcard unlike old senile joe Biden!

  12. #42
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    Quote CloudMaker View Post
    Putin wouldn’t have invaded with Trump because the US was an energy exporter and undercutting Russian gas before Biden!! Russia wouldn’t have been able to afford to start it! Trump was known as a hardliner too and probably intimidated Putin as a wildcard unlike old senile joe Biden!
    Have to disagree. European countries would have gone to Russia anyway, up until this, was this idea amongst some that "US is as bad as Russia/China" (not just a Trump thing, longstanding view of some here, can't think of any US president anyone has really liked.). Would throw up stuff like the Snowden leaks showing the Americans were spying on us, Iraq, Libya, US backed coups in South and Central America. Up until now when it has become a "lesser evil". Not to mention distance. Easier to build a pipeline to Russia than it is to import across the Atlantic. Not to mention the lack of LNG terminals in a lot of countries. Isn't so much a case of suddenly turning it off now because they didn't build those LNG terminals. Those nations now likely to look at trying to increase supply from Norway through the baltic pipe - not enough left there though, so will then likely be the gulf. Hopefully be enough of a kick of the backside that Europe gets off of others gas and looks into Nuclear/consider fracking. Need to be energy independent here. Just need to get over the obstacles that is European NIMBYism and the German aversion to anything nuclear powered.

    Not to mention the idea of "Wandel durch Handel" (Change through trade) that the Germans were all behind. All based on this idea that it was in fact Germany trading and playing nice with the soviets that brought about an end to the cold war, rather than through a combination of factors (such as brinkmanship by Reagan.). Thought, "if we trade and play nice with the Russians, they'll change there ways." See also, trade and play nice with China, that'll do regime change in China. Had a million people telling them it was a moronic idea, only to be told that it was the way to world peace. Only really in the last few weeks come to the conclusion that you can't trade your way to regime change. Much as I loath to bring up Hitler, really, they should have known that there was absolutley no trading with Hitler that could have stopped the Third Reich.

    Other European countries? Some flirtation with Russia. French opposition pretty much been funded by it, for example. God help us in Europe if that party wins the elections here. Even been a few "let us flirt with Russia, they're mostly harmless and lets take there money and do business with them" politicians here.

    Doubt much intimidates Putin. Guy would be glad of a new cold war. Would love it if Europe was once again divided into the 2 spheres of Influence, America gets one half, Russia the other. Thing about dictators is they generally think they are untouchable. See democratic leaders come and go. 2 Term limits ends. Gets voted out. He is still the Russian president.
    I'M GONNA FIGHT 'EM ALL
    A SEVEN NATION ARMY COULDN'T HOLD ME BACK.......


  13. #43
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    Quote Ironman View Post
    Actually, despite all of the crap our Democratic Party did to Trump, Putin didn't do anything. Trump would not have been able to have any communication with him or our lefties would have had wild convuslions on the floor like the Exorcist Girl.
    He invaded Georgia at the end of the Bush Presidency (and into Obama in 2009) when his ratings were bad and we were sliding into the recesssion that Obama never got us out of. Crimea was Obama, Donbas was Biden. THe SOB bit off more than he could chew and the world sees it!
    Russians pretty much been at war with Ukraine since 2014. Never really been an end to it, have been in Donetsk and Luhansk regions since 2014. Only really gone into the wider worlds notice when it went beyond the Donetsk and Luhansk into the entire country. Similar in Azerbaijan/Armenia conflict (not in the worlds notice much, that conflict). Have also had chemical weapons in Salisbury, agitating in Srpska.

    Outside of Europe, Russia carpet bombing Syria and helping wonderfully with the peace process there, interventions in Central Africa also doing wonders for peace in that region.

    Hopefully, Ukraine is Russia biting off more than it can chew, had spend the last few years planning for sanctions and testing for "how can we manage with sanctions" (developing it's own payments system in anticipation of Swift and visa card payments being cut off, for example.) But did not seem to anticipate its dollar reserves being frozen though. That being one of the largest pots in the world, all built up in an attempt to have a pot ready to mitigate potential sanctions and fund the russian war. Can't get at the pot now. Economy is crashing, and the way out may very well be to become a Chinese vassal state. Can't be what Putin wanted for Russia.

    Nevertheless - I wouldn't be surprised to hear of the all familiar story of "Russia invades Moldova to protect ethnic Russians living in seperatist Transnistria which we formed in the 90s" when it starts looking like the idea of Moldova reuniting with Romania will happen (thus becoming NATO) in a few years time. Particularly if those sanctions are lifted without Putin being gone.
    I'M GONNA FIGHT 'EM ALL
    A SEVEN NATION ARMY COULDN'T HOLD ME BACK.......


  14. #44
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    We all know Trump doesn't care much about NATO and the EU. He would have gladly gone against both the first chance he got. Even if it meant creating instabliity in Europe. And that is meant to help anybody how exactly? Charging in with nukes. Threating to wipe Russia off the face of the earth. Create more probablems than it would sollutions. Not like Russia were saints when he was in power. What exactly did he do then? Nothing. Syria is mentioned above. Is over the other side of the world. Meant nothing to him. Let them do what they want there. If anything we would have seen once and for all if Putin really does have anything on Trump. Story always was he had pictures. Not that I ever really believed in the type of pictures mentioned. As Trump is a bit of a germaphobe. Whole golden shower thing goes against something a germaphobe would want to do. That does not mean there are not other pictures. We might have found out. The man was hot headed. Never thought things through. Just wanted to do what he wanted to do. Which is never good for others. He would not of had to live as close to Russia as the rest of would have had to. Probably the last person the world would have needed getting involved in anything right now.
    The Lovable Irish Rogue

  15. #45
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    Quote Cuchculan View Post
    We all know Trump doesn't care much about NATO and the EU. He would have gladly gone against both the first chance he got. Even if it meant creating instabliity in Europe. And that is meant to help anybody how exactly? Charging in with nukes. Threating to wipe Russia off the face of the earth. Create more probablems than it would sollutions. Not like Russia were saints when he was in power. What exactly did he do then? Nothing. Syria is mentioned above. Is over the other side of the world. Meant nothing to him. Let them do what they want there. If anything we would have seen once and for all if Putin really does have anything on Trump. Story always was he had pictures. Not that I ever really believed in the type of pictures mentioned. As Trump is a bit of a germaphobe. Whole golden shower thing goes against something a germaphobe would want to do. That does not mean there are not other pictures. We might have found out. The man was hot headed. Never thought things through. Just wanted to do what he wanted to do. Which is never good for others. He would not of had to live as close to Russia as the rest of would have had to. Probably the last person the world would have needed getting involved in anything right now.
    He just wanted them to pay their way. We were always giving more money than many other members. President after President would let it go.
    Putin didn't have anything on Trump. We spent three years here listening to stories about "collusion with Russia", "a pee-pee tape made with prostitutes in a hotel room the Obamas had once slept in". The whole thing was made up by people in Hillary Clinton's campaign. The pieces were finally put together as to where the money and communication went. THe person with the pee-pee tape would be JOEJanHorse's son BLUNTer. He's the one with the laptops full of business deals with China and lecherous drug parties and sexcapades with hoochies. He even admitted in one video that he had a laptop stolen during a drug party. He was naked and sitting in bed talking with a prostitute about it. That's not even the same one that the FBI currently has. That's a bombshell coming up. Some Chinese hackers said there were a total of three laptops....the FBI confiscated one, the missing one, and another lost one.

    Trump was never able to interact with Putin at all due to the crap his opposition put him through. That was partly what caused the Ukraine issue. Putin found the opportunity while we have an Alzheimer's patient running our country.

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