https://link.springer.com/article/10...08-023-02576-910 May 2023 Publisher?s Note: readers are alerted that concerns have been raised regarding methodology as described in this article. The publisher is currently investigating this matter and a further response will follow the conclusion of this investigation.
16 May 2023 Publisher's Note: the Supplementary Information has been removed due to a lack of documented consent by study participants.
So Bailey (one of the researchers who worked on this,) is complaining about this. While this explanation is suspect (assuming the consent in question is the consent of the parents,) I have very little sympathy for him because I know he's biased and has lied a bunch and he's choosing to pursue this line of research now, after mostly ignoring genetically female trans people for decades, and still hasn't created any equivalent papers to those for genetic males. Now he's doing research without involving any of us and just focussing on parents of teenagers. Contributing to our ongoing suppression.
Sexology is one of the most misogynistic and sexist fields of research there is imo. Maybe because I'm hyperfocussing on one segment of the field. It's just insane though. If you read further into this post you will see why.
So I've been very frustrated obviously about this and a while back in like late 2022 I was invited to some new server. I left the others all ages ago in 2020 because they attract people who are in depressing situations and toxic people in some instances and just bad vibes, and rationalists are all into IQ and race research and [BEEP] like that it's a whole lot. But I'm lurking again now. Mostly to see where these sexologists are at. I dunno if I'm going to go back to chatting in these spaces (at one point I was participating every day basically lol,) maybe if I can find some balance (I don't do balance lol.) It's not like what I'm doing now is healthy either but I was feeling more uncomfortable back then.
I'm too lazy to label all the quotes:
Oh boy this is not a good start.I don't think I'm being uncharitable because BPD = AAP is a bizarre theory that they refuse to even attempt to justify, so guessing seems appropriate and this seems like a logical guess
but just because I'm not uncharitable doesn't mean I'm not wrong
😆When I diagnose a*p, gender progressivism, etc, i do so at an individual level, eg: asking people about their sexual fantasies.
Blanchardian researchers can't do this because they don't ask large numbers of people lots of questions and also they would dismiss all the answers they get as lies anyway.
It's really weird that some people assume it doesn't exist. I mean any form of orgasm not specific forms since some people break that down further. I've had hundreds maybe a thousand+? of 'female orgasms.' I gave them all to myself but it's a thing.for a while Ive been kind of confused about this stuff because theres some vague allusion to an ideological conflict in how female sexuality works but its not clear what exactly it is. like on one extreme you get bizarre stuff like conservatives saying that the female orgasm doesn't exist
Just how though.
OK so not quoting a bunch of stuff too much there.
A lot of feminism annoys me and even I wouldn't say it's BPD. Wtf? I've missed a lot.Blanchardians don't believe female sexual desire is real. they also cant tell the difference between feminists and aaps because they dont ask feminists about their sexuality and dont meet AAPs to notice whether they are feminist. blanchardians believe that feminism is the same as bpd because blanchardian's keep gaslighting feminists. so blanchardians reason, aap = ftms = feminism = bpd
I only know brief bits and pieces I've picked up on twitter etc of what's happened here. I think a lot of this thing I'm reading now is a justification from this guy that he's not BPD either because someone implied that or he's considering his present behaviour/reaction caused by the behaviour of Blanchardian researchers etc and it's also made him reflect on feminist's reaction to conservatives and the methods employed by conservatives in general towards women and feminists. He says that he feels over time that in his interactions with Blanchardian's he's exhibited more behaviour that he thinks is similar to BPD whereas in the past his brother and other's described him as the opposite of that personality type.
Well I would say if you're part of an oppressed group you're going to have this experience at some point where you come face to face with that oppression.my explanation would be that blanchardians are absolutely terrible and bpd-adj behavior is a natural and strategically appropriate way to deal with their particular brand of terribleness.
ive come to wonder if conservatives often employ this kind of terribleness towards feminists/women/their daughters. it's basically a sort of, refusal to discuss problems or clarify things or engage with critique, plus trying to present as the other personal being unreasonable.
Separately it also seems like someone is arguing that AAP (a sexuality where you are aroused by the idea of becoming/being a man but there's a bit more to it than that,) is BPD and that's what I'm trying to figure out now because that appears to be a batshit claim to make. Ftr this person isn't genetically female or AAP he's on hrt I think and is AGP and hasn't socially transitioned. So this wouldn't apply to him personally but some also do try to pin various mental disorders on AGP people as some kind of argument also.
Is the claim that Blanchardians read and understand [x]'s AAP data and conclude it is really BPD? Or that you describe AAPlike symptoms and they chalk them up to BPD? Or do they identify some group which might not perfectly overlap with your notion of AAP and call that BPD? Or something else? [...]
My understanding is that Bailey doesn't believe in AAP, and has the "autohomoerotic" label for AAPlike traits. So I'm confused about what are the sorts of things that you would describe as AAP, that "Blanchardians" (Bailey? Lawrence? Who?) would not already be describing with a label other than BPD.He can't actually be in this server can he lol? (Not Bailey some other researcher.) I dunno can't confirm.Well the fundamental issue is that they don't clarify and they don't engage, they just throw vague stuff out there
I don't know where the person who asked me got it from
But it definitely seems like a thing they believe, hsu confirmed it too: [link]
Oh my god this entire subject area/field is a whole [BEEP] nightmare. Also it seems like there aren't many people in this field in the first place. Also I used to talk to someone who saw him as a therapist lol. I think he diagnosed her with BPD if I'm remembering right she was a trans woman.Cantor once said that they were BPD rather than persistent sexual interests in the male sense
Even if a sexual interest is transient where the [BEEP] is the BPD connection coming from?
I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist here.
But between this and the weird tendency for obvious female sociopaths who have killed multiple people and have clear violent sexual fetishes being diagnosed with BPD even when they're also diagnosed with ASPD. Which I thought was weird at the time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterb..._ditch_murders
I think it's been removed from this article? But I know there was some reference to her writing violent sexual pornographic fantasies while in prison. There's a footnote link referencing her paraphilia.In November 2013, Dennehy pleaded guilty to all three murders and two further attempted murders.[13][14] Her sister Maria was unsurprised by the guilty plea and said, "I think she did that to control the situation. She likes people to know she's the boss."[15] Dennehy was held on remand at HM Prison Bronzefield.[16] Assessing psychiatrists later diagnosed Dennehy with psychopathic, anti-social and borderline personality disorders.[17]
On 28 February 2014, at the Old Bailey, Dennehy was sentenced to life imprisonment. The trial judge, Mr Justice Spencer, ordered that she should never be released due to the premeditation of each murder. Spencer said further that Dennehy was sadomasochistic, and lacked the normal range of human emotions.[18] Dennehy was the third woman in the UK to be given a whole life tariff, after Myra Hindley and Rosemary West.[19]
Not to mention the overlap between ASD (autism spectrum,) and BPD in diagnoses. I've met numerous guys I would describe (have described) as having these traits without diagnoses. But the way it's often being used is insane and sexist.
Think he's talking about several people here when he says they.If I understand some of their views correctly, they are skeptical that a natal female's self-reported paraphilic sexual attraction is reflecting the same as a natal male's self-reported paraphilic sexual attraction. As in, for natal females, they reflect sociocultural factors (they were with a male partner with that sexual interest) or personality factors (what [x] just wrote) rather than genuine preferential sexual interest
Also I'm pretty sure they do believe female paraphilias at least occur RARELY, since Bailey and Blanchard wrote that "Gender dysphoria is not one thing" article for 4thwavenow where they talked about "autohomoerotic gender dysphoria" in natal females, which would be the result of a paraphilic interest by their standards.
This is quite a bit different than saying a specific sexual interest is just BPD, or that perhaps unconventional sexual interests in general are BPD.
Also I think regardless of whether a sexual preference comes about socially or not if someone then wants to choose to continue having this sexuality or to say transition they should have the right to do that and other people shouldn't be trying to control them. Also though a lot of personality is genetic and honestly doesn't seem very mutable.
I think Blanchard believes it and Bailey remains skepticalthis should predict a strong correlation between AAP and personality, but I don't think such a correlation has been observed anywhere
(I suspect they get this result from rounding BPD off to gender progressivism, and rounding AAP off to gender progressivism? idk; at least I don't know of any other way they could have come up with this result)Mm no because that's behaviour not sexuality. Female people are obviously less likely to act on their sexuality but that doesn't mean their sexuality isn't there psychologically.Applying that to sex, I'd notice that male sexuality seems harder to stamp out than the female version. You could have an ultra repressive regime and there'd still be a park where gay men find each other. Lesbians would not resort to cruising for other lesbians in a park in a sufficiently repressive regime
For the record, I do think that female paraphilias exist, and when they exist, they are especially likely to be found in lesbian women(I would expect them to be more likely in bisexual women and equally likely in lesbian and straight women...)I'd think so potentially. Bisexual women are less sociosexually restricted etc.I would also expect them to be more likely in bi women than lesbian or straight women
Getting off point though... I need like a source for this BPD statement because it so insane.
Reverse causality? Ie, trans AFABs picking up odd sexual tastes from social contagion?
That seems... Testable.
But also it seems like a pretty odd claim, given that it's kind of unclear whether anyones picks up sexual tastes from social contact
I guess if anyone would, it would be non-binary AFABs (who, in this hypothetical model, are all enby b/c of social contaigion)This I've heard from them before (that most of female sexuality is social contagion essentially.) Maybe he's just rounding it all off to BPD. (I'm still looking.)Kevin hsu says that that is their theory
It's not something the women in my almost-qualitative AAP survey reported, so I suspect they just made it up
There's this implication that my sexuality is some kind of frivolous superficial thing that can be adjusted to suit other's needs and I'm going to need society to know that if they forced me into some form of conversion therapy I would respond violently. And they would ultimately have to kill me.
I know this is the end game for conservative society at least when you get past a certain point.
OK so I believe I've found his position through his twitter account and it looks like he's doing what other people do where they blame gender dysphoria on various disorders but he has brought up BPD a few times. Obviously a lot of people blame it on autism and he's brought that up too. He doesn't seem to have brought up AAP on his twitter maybe he did somewhere else cause like I say they reduce dysphoria to a contagion and then when someone brings up AAP or AHE they tend to incorporate that into their contagion theory. So more things are viruses.
What did I fucking say though?
At the end of the day you don't want an autism diagnoses though even if you are autistic because 1. they can't help you and 2. sooner or later someone will use it as an excuse to inhibit your freedom. Well you're fucked either way because you might have 'traits' this study isn't pushing that position but most journalists who write about this topic, and people with blogs, do and in general they'll grasp at whatever they can. "We also know that that 48% of all referees to the Tavistock, have autistic traits, with 35% of them displaying moderate to severe traits." Etc.It would seem so yeah.Fandom is very very gender progressive, right?
I speculate that they use presence of gender progressivism as a proxy for social contagion
So they wouldn't be convinced unless you could find a community of gender conservative AAPs (or gender conservative female paraphiles)
No one responded to this but the bolded seems interesting:
So I've gradually gained the impression that a lot of the bizarre Blanchardian views originate from their contact with gender conservatives, either because the blanchardians are themselves gender conservative on those areas, or because the blanchardians are gender progressive and have asspulled some buzarre responses to the gender conservatives, or because the blanchardians have to adopt those views to be taken seriously by gender conservatives
What is the primary and most personal conflict that gender conservatives might have about female sexuality, which might explain the strong blanchardian insistence on bizarre female sexuality views?
It must surely be "my daughter is dating someone I don't approve of"!
This probably also connects to all sorts of other things like social contagion constantly being brought up in that context, e.g. I think a stereotypical case of this is a teen girl who is dating some rebellious anticonservative guyWas never paying that much attention to his twitter but Blanchard definitely often has been an edgelord on twitter.Personal opinion but Bailey seems to act like an edgelord.
A lot of his twitter comments are straight up douchey.
Ftr I think a few of the original rad fems - the ones who weren't just transphobic conservatives or other sexually conservative women were diagnosed with schizophrenia not BPD (Solanas and Firestone off the top of my head.) Technically Solanas never identified as a feminist though they just adopted her. The Scum Manifesto is really insane but it's also kind of a mirror of the far right/fascism. I can't prove this but I also think she had some kind of forced feminisation/female supremacy fetish too the features of her manifesto also came up in a play she wrote and were more explicitly sexual there. I haven't read Shulamith Firestone's work really (she actually was part of the feminist movement.) I'd probably disagree with a lot because I do with most feminists but she did at least at one point mention that artificial wombs were important and I agree with that. Not aware of anyone besides those two being diagnosed with anything and I think they are the most interesting haha.