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  1. #5596
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    Not only did cultures historically view men and women as a team, but in the case of the Greeks, they believed men and women were originally part of a whole and were punished by Zeus to be split apart and left wandering the earth in search of each other. I believe this is where the idea of a soulmate comes from. Now this is a strong statement about how important the union between man and woman is! They must have stopped teaching classical writings and thought in school nowadays.
    Very biblical.
    No That's Plato's Other Half. What he said was really not biblical. I actually almost doubt every account of it I read because it sounds so modern even if it was ancient Greece and 'it was like that' the main clue is that it's a lot more pro male so somewhat an inverse still of modern culture.

    https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/eros/platos-other-half

    First you must learn what human nature was in the beginning and what has happened to it since, because long ago our nature was not what it is now, but very different.

    There were three kinds of human beings, that?s my first point--not two as there are now, male and female. In addition to these, there was a third, a combination of those two; its name survives, though the kind itself has vanished. At that time, you see, the word 'androgynous' really meant something: a form made up of male and female elements, though now there?s nothing but the word, and that?s used as an insult. My second point is that the shape of each human being was completely round, with back and sides in a circle; they had four hands each, as many legs as hands, and two faces, exactly alike, on a rounded neck. Between the two faces, which were on opposite sides, was one head with four ears. There were two sets of sexual organs, and everything else was the way you?d imagine it from what I?ve told you. They walked upright, as we do now, whatever direction they wanted. And whenever they set out to run fast, they thrust out all their eight limbs, the ones they had then, and spun rapidly, the way gymnasts do cartwheels, by bringing their legs around straight.
    I won't quote the whole thing cause it's long but key parts:

    "Now here is why there were three kinds, and why they were as I described them: the male kind was originally an offspring of the sun, the female of the earth, and the one that combined both genders was an offspring of the moon, because the moon shares in both. They were spherical, and so was their motion, because they were like their parents in the sky.

    "In strength and power, therefore, they were terrible, and they had great ambitions. They made an attempt on the gods, and Homer?s story about Ephialtes and Otus was originally about them: how they tried to make an ascent to heaven so as to attack the gods. Then Zeus and the other gods met in council to discuss what to do, and they were sorely perplexed. They couldn't wipe out the human race with thunderbolts and kill them all off, as they had the giants, because that would wipe out the worship they receive, along with the sacrifices we humans give them. On the other hand, they couldn't let them run riot. At last, after great effort, Zeus had an idea.

    "'I think I have a plan,' he said, ?that would allow human beings to exist and stop their misbehaving: they will give up being wicked when they lose their strength. So I shall now cut each of them in two. At one stroke they will lose their strength and also become more profitable to us, owing to the increase in their number. They shall walk upright on two legs. But if I find they still run riot and do not keep the peace,' he said, ?I will cut them in two again, and they'll have to make their way on one leg, hopping.'
    "Each of us, then, is a 'matching half' of a human whole, because each was sliced like a flatfish, two out of one, and each of us is always seeking the half that matches him. That's why a man who is split from the double sort (which used to be called 'androgynous') runs after women. Many lecherous men have come from this class, and so do the lecherous women who run after men. Women who are split from a woman, however, pay no attention at all to men; they are oriented more toward women, and lesbians come from this class. People who are split from a male are male-oriented. While they are boys, because they are chips off the male block, they love men and enjoy lying with men and being embraced by men; those are the best of boys and lads, because they are the most manly in their nature. Of course, some say such boys are shameless, but they?re lying. It?s not because they have no shame that such boys do this, you see, but because they are bold and brave and masculine, and they tend to cherish what is like themselves. Do you want me to prove it? Look, these are the only kind of boys who grow up to be real men in politics. When they?re grown men, they are lovers of young men, and they naturally pay no attention to marriage or to making babies, except insofar as they are required by local custom. They, however, are quite satisfied to live their lives with one another unmarried. In every way, then, this sort of man grows up as a lover of young men and a lover of love, always rejoicing in his own kind.
    "And so, when a person meets the half that is his very own, whatever his orientation, whether it's to young men or not, then something wonderful happens: the two are struck from their senses by love, by a sense of belonging to one another, and by desire, and they don't want to be separated from one another, not even for a moment.

    "These are the people who finish out their lives together and still cannot say what it is they want from one another. No one would think it is the intimacy of sex--that mere sex is the reason each lover takes so great and deep a joy in being with the other. It's obvious that the soul of every lover longs for something else; his soul cannot say what it is, but like an oracle it has a sense of what it wants, and like an oracle it hides behind a riddle. Suppose two lovers are lying together and Hephaestus stands over them with his mending tools, asking, 'What is it you human beings really want from each other?' And suppose they're perplexed, and he asks them again, 'Is this your heart's desire, then--for the two of you to become parts of the same whole, as near as can be, and never to separate, day or night? Because if that's your desire, I'd like to weld you together and join you into something that is naturally whole, so that the two of you are made into one. Then the two of you would share one life, as long as you lived, because you would be one being, and by the same token, when you died, you would be one and not two in Hades, having died a single death. Look at your love, and see if this is what you desire: Wouldn't this be all the good fortune you could want?'

    "Surely you can see that no one who received such an offer would turn it down; no one would find anything else that he wanted. Instead, everyone would think he?d found out at last what he had always wanted: to come together and melt together with the one he loves, so that one person emerged from two. Why should this be so? It?s because, as I said, we used to be complete wholes in our original nature, and now ?love? is the name for our pursuit of wholeness, for our desire to be complete."
    Also the moon again huh? I didn't remember that but that's interesting.

    "Now here is why there were three kinds, and why they were as I described them: the male kind was originally an offspring of the sun, the female of the earth, and the one that combined both genders was an offspring of the moon, because the moon shares in both. They were spherical, and so was their motion, because they were like their parents in the sky."
    I've removed discussion of this in posts like 2+ times now lol so I actually made a point of copying and pasting this part below of my last post so I'm just going to quote this again my research into rabbit and moon gods from last month:

    I did say I was the worst of both worlds.

    Speaking of being the worst:



    Donnie is a non-binary trans guy confirmed. I would say trans guy but then I wouldn't be allowed to relate to him according to more stupid online rules and he's obviously a cis guy so it's ironic. It was the insanity, time travel and the fact he's talking to a rabbit moreso than the getting overly emotional while talking about not having a dick.

    From Videodrome to Donnie Darko, 5 Horror Movies That Give Me Transmasc Vibes
    It's not a horror movie is it? It's a psychological thriller with science fiction themes. Their reasons for concluding this are in one case kind of a personal thing about a certain relationship in the film and then they bring up the dick thing of course and just the fact that it's set in a climate of suburban moral panic of 1988 that's relatable to our current time period.

    I deleted a post or part of a post? Talking about my research into rabbit gods recently before... I told you it's the insanity lol. I'm definitely going to regret this again later I imagine. But yeah I can actually bend this narrative even more than is obvious:

    So I wasn't researching rabbit gods because of this film I was just doing that anyway because I guess... There was a porn audio I liked with a rabbit guy in (and certain conservatives would be thrilled because I know how much they love when people connect sex and transcendental themes) and then I remembered some romance story online I read as a teenager with a vampire who had a harem with a rabbit guy in who I think was his favourite and then I thought about all the music videos I'd been watching lately that had people wearing white face masks and in one of them created by The Birthday Massacre there was a woman with rabbit ears fighting with the dolls wearing white face masks and they both end up headless in the end. Which reminded me of the Jazz Emu video where he ends up headless also with white face masks.

    But The Birthday Massacre have a lot of rabbit symbolism on their album art work etc. A lot of musicians were inspired by Alice in Wonderland in the early 2000s and in general even before then so there's a lot of rabbit symbolism in a lot of the music I listened to and in other music. Another female artist who was inspired by feminism and gay culture - it says on her wikipedia page she was inspired by those things and is bisexual herself and she's created a lot of rabbit art work on top of her old band (Jack off Jill,) having rabbit themed songs and also other songs that kind of sound like they were inspired by Alice in Wonderland all on their second album and their first album is called 'sexless demons and scars.'

    The YouTube music video 'I'm God.' It's a fanmade video but the music is by Clams Casino (sampling Imogen Heap.) I'd liked this track for a while aesthetically there are two women wearing white face masks that tbh make them seem quite androgynous and I kind of projected a sapphic relationship onto the video but it actually contains clips of a film I haven't watched called Perdues dans New York (1989) created by a director who mostly makes lesbian films including vampires but in this case this film did not include lesbians ironically lol and some reviewer I stumbled on actually said that was a reason not to watch it amusingly but it is also about time travel:

    Dear God, I've sat through some bollocks in my time but Perdue Dans New York takes the biscuit. It?s a pretentious, arty, plotless, amateurish collection of largely random ideas which is as boring as it is incomprehensible. The best thing you can say about it is that?s it's only 52 minutes long.

    Of course, if you're a big fan of Jean Rollin and his somewhat, erm, distinctive approach to film-making (Requiem for a Vampire, Lips of Blood etc), this rarity will be high on your must-see list and nothing I can say will dissuade you, especially as two ultra-rare early Rollin shorts are included as extras on the UK disc. But I should warn you: there's only one vampire and no lesbians.
    This is a basic description of the film:

    Two girls discover a magical wooden device, called a Moon Goddess, which allows them to travel through time and space. They imagine they are grown up and see New York City. Meeting again with their memories as old women, after a dreamlike journey of self-discovery, they return to their days of youth.
    The moon goddess part is also relevant to some stuff I read about rabbit Gods later btw.



    He hadn't anticipated someone being insane enough to 'get it.'

    Actually Ted Kaczynski invented a grandfather rabbit God while living in the woods that was entirely unrelated to what I will talk about soon (even though he previously was considering transistioning into a woman before he decided to go live in the woods.... The creepyness continues.)

    "This is kind of personal," he begins by saying, and I ask if he wants me to turn off the tape. He says "no, I can tell you about it. While I was living in the woods I sort of invented some gods for myself" and he laughs. "Not that I believed in these things intellectually, but they were ideas that sort of corresponded with some of the feelings I had. I think the first one I invented was Grandfather Rabbit. You know the snowshoe rabbits were my main source of meat during the winters. I had spent a lot of time learning what they do and following their tracks all around before I could get close enough to shoot them. Sometimes you would track a rabbit around and around and then the tracks disappear. You can?t figure out where that rabbit went and lose the trail. I invented a myth for myself, that this was the Grandfather Rabbit, the grandfather who was responsible for the existence of all other rabbits. He was able to disappear, that is why you couldn't catch him and why you would never see him... Every time I shot a snowshoe rabbit, I would always say 'thank you Grandfather Rabbit.' After a while I acquired an urge to draw snowshoe rabbits. I sort of got involved with them to the extent that they would occupy a great deal of my thought. I actually did have a wooden object that, among other things, I carved a snowshoe rabbit in. I planned to do a better one, just for the snowshoe rabbits, but I never did get it done. There was another one that I sometimes called the Will 'o the Wisp, or the wings of the morning. That's when you go out in to the hills in the morning and you just feel drawn to go on and on and on and on, then you are following the wisp. That was another god that I invented for myself."
    https://www.thechinastory.org/how-th...-nationalists/

    How the Rabbit Became an Emblem for Both Gay Men and Chinese Nationalists

    The 'Ballad of Mulan' (circa 400-600), which recounts the story of a young woman disguising herself as a man to take her father's place in the army, concludes with a musing on the difficulties of telling the sex of rabbits:

    The male hare wildly kicks its feet,

    The female hare has shifty eyes,

    But when a pair of hares run side by side,

    Who can tell a buck from doe? [1]

    The difficulty of distinguishing the gender of rabbits (and hares, for distinction between the two species was not clearly made in the Chinese language) has led some ancient Chinese to believe that rabbits are androgynous. They become pregnant, some thought, by sucking on their fur and gazing at the moon. The Chinese name for rabbit, tu 兔, is said to derive from the idea that rabbits spit out (tu 吐) their young.
    By Han Yu's time, the rabbit had been firmly woven into the myth of Chang'e 嫦娥, a female mortal who, after consuming her husband's elixir of longevity, flew to the moon and became its guardian spirit. In some accounts of the story, a 'jade rabbit? 玉兔 -- named for its pure white fur -- was the original inhabitant of the moon; in other versions, it joined the goddess' company out of sympathy for her loneliness. [4]
    The social bunnies in The Sims 2 were inspired by Frank from Donnie Darko. They appear when Sims' social motive is very low and there are three blue, yellow and pink. The pink and blue ones will often perform romantic interactions if they're on the lot at the same time because multiple Sims have low social needs, well supposedly. Two bunnies of the same colour are also more likely to be hostile to each other. I don't know what the thought process here was but this is a game where aliens can get male Sims pregnant and all that. The Sims 4 is rated 18+ in Russia now lol and politicians in their government want to make a life sim game to compete with it.

    In the spoken dialect of Qing dynasty (1644-1911) Beijing, 'rabbit' became a slur for catamites, male actors (particularly those impersonating women on stage) and more generally, male prostitutes. (Interestingly, the same association between rabbits and homosexuals existed in ancient Rome. [6]) According to one elaborate theory, the association between rabbits and homosexuals came from the fact that, as previously mentioned, rabbit correspond to mao 卯, the fourth of the twelve 'earthly branches'. The mortise and tenon joints commonly used in traditional Chinese architecture, meanwhile, are called sun mao 榫卯. Apparently, the practice of inserting one a piece of wood into a hole in another piece of wood became euphemism for anal sex. [7] A simpler explanation could be that the rabbit was still widely perceived as androgynous, and therefore a suitable metaphor for men who were in some way 'feminine'. In modern-day speech, some still use the phrase 'son of a rabbit' 兔崽子 as an insult.
    I told you it's a curse/gift.

    Oh and on top of all of this I stick random stuff or used to on my bedroom wall that I like aesthetically and some of my own art work and other random crap. I've actually just noticed now that I have some Japanese cardboard thing with some rabbits peaking out of a bunch of moons and also a plastic thing of the same design. I can't remember where they're from? Probably some food packaging thing from many years ago. says Hangatsu in Kana on one which means half moon. I can't read the kanji though. The kanji for half moon and moon in general isn't there. I dunno I think it's probably an unrelated food company brand anyway. But yeah why wouldn't that be on my wall?
    I didn't bother to link some of the stuff in that post but I guess I'll link a few things like The Birthday Massacre video. It's kind of eldritch:



    The Jazz Emu video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mgQdF1Dhqg

    Some paintings by Jessicka Addams from Jack off Jill. There's also a bunch with moons etc:





    She also has some art work of rabbits with tentacles:

    https://assets.artworkarchive.com/im...66/20.3_wrqq7q

    She's married but her artwork seems lonely and sad mostly.

    Lots of rabbits, cats, rainbows and moons.

    Uh Patrick Wolf kind of used lycanthropy as a metaphor this way on his first album too:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vX0_H2ewmM

    And has a song about Selene (moon goddess in Greek mythology)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyP44nj25MY

    Walk tall beneath these trees boy
    You monolith not scarred by fallout
    Us wolves were right behind you and lucifer will never find you
    Oh no!

    The moon, let it guide you, when Selene comes, we'll alll know how to fight
    Dear Fenrir, my saviour, come and eat the ones, we know who taste the best

    I know just where you've been boy, i've watched you by the stream
    And don't be afraid of the dark
    'cos the darkness is simply a womb for the lonely
    Swallow your pride and walk with us through the hills and trees
    Oh yes! your english eyes they are turning red
    I I I I oh I I I I

    The moon, let it guide you and i shall find you a home in our heartland
    A heart in our homeland
    Until the moon is down, until the moon is down
    I could never get into werewolves myself though as much as other fantasy stuff.

    His stage name was partly a reference to Virginia Woolf though (who wrote Orlando actually lol) he only has a song about To The Lighthouse though:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5zjuLulK_o

    Of course I've said before these are all quite common symbols and people tend to think alike throughout time but it's kind of fun/interesting.

    But yeah no it's not quite biblical lol.
    The impulse is pure
    Sometimes our circuits get shorted
    By external interference

    Signals get crossed
    And the balance distorted
    By internal incoherence

    A tired mind become a shape-shifter
    Everybody need a mood lifter
    Everybody need reverse polarity

    Everybody got mixed feelings
    About the function and the form
    Everybody got to deviate
    From the norm

  2. #5597
    Otherside's Avatar
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    My mental health is rubbish during the winter. My mental health is rubbish during the winter, because it starts to get dark at 3pm.

    My mental health would be in a much better place if I moved to a sunnier country, or at a minimum, decamped to a sunnier country for those months. Also, the food is nicer in sunnier countries.

    On another note, why is it that the tomatoes in those countries actually have flavour, whilst they somehow manage to taste like a watery goo in the UK?
    I'M GONNA FIGHT 'EM ALL
    A SEVEN NATION ARMY COULDN'T HOLD ME BACK.......


  3. #5598
    Nyctophilia's Avatar
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    4chan may be perceptive about certain things, but SA is not involved in this situation. Please don?t spread that misinfo.
    At least contrapoints addressed this part because 4chan have been doing this for years now with no real evidence which is fucked up.

    I guess I actually have to read this shit

    Do you really? Like Seriously, I tried and gave up and I think The Phenomenology of Spirit is amazing. I love long difficult reads.

    It just reads like an edgelord who's on way too many shrooms trying to shock you.
    Huh then maybe I can read that book. I doubt it though.

    Also entirely unrelated to that:

    People hate you for saying the simple fact that "femboy" as a state is inherently unsustainable, there will come a point when aging just catches up
    I've seen it before, the ones most comfortable being femboys end up as nonbinary trans femmes or GNC cis men.
    Probably helps that it's weird to call yourself anything with "boy" or "girl" in it as an adult over 30.
    That seems like a seperate discussion. F1nn was also obviously talking about the label femboy disappearing and being replaced by something else and what he said at the end of the video is still kinda irritating but I think it's obvious bait anyway.

    bit of a hot take: there are "femboys" that are still "femboys" after 5 years, they're just rechristened as "cross dressers" once reddit pederasts stop finding them hot

    Which isn't a value judgment at all, cross dressers are cool, just I think the whole "femboy" schtick relies a lot on youth and that's why it's not sustainable
    I'm not super keen on the label cross dresser really I mean if people want to call themselves that it's whatever but the concept of 'crossing' what? They're clothes.

    Oh no it's definitely a recapture of transfeminine desire towards masculinist pederasty in most cases.
    She keeps saying this. Must be her thesis lol.

    I think some femboys exist but for the most part it's a cope for repressed dolls (binary and non-binary) and the culture built up around it is a reactionary pit of neo-roman masculinist pederasty that fetishizes pubescence which attempts to recuperate transfeminine desiring.
    Why must left wing twitter people phrase everything like this?

    And some of them are just gay and whatever.

    I'm doing Metaqueer Marxism in this shit
    No lol.

    It is objectively impossible to achieve communism without being a lesbian
    Stop.

    Every disenfranchised young man has one year to stop being disenfranchised or we're doing state mandated sapphic (MLM) relationship for the lot of them; I mean uhaul dates, constant "I love you wars", the sapphic longing. The works. Don't fucking test me
    Are you saying other people don't imagine themselves in gay male lesbian relationships in their head?

    I learnt there's a word for this an hour ago lol:

    Sapphic Achillean
    But that's not strictly how my sexuality works actually. More like straight sapphic and gay mixed together at different times and sometimes mushed together at the same time.

    Told y'all it was Roman Masculinist Pederasty crosscutting the spiral of time to reach forward through time to re-emerge once again.
    #CCRU #Lemurians #Hyperstition #Accelerate
    Cannot believe people are still doing G/acc in 2024.

    Huh I wonder if jreg has a video on that now lol.... Oh no just that accelerationist accelerationist one he made recently that I watched and the song from years ago. Probably was too niche on it's own.



    Lol I just realised he has a clip from former The Book Club channel in his video lol. There's a clip in another one of his videos that I think is funny and wanted to post as a reaction a bunch of times (I mean he's deleted all the videos on that older channel years ago and seems to frequently purge his channels and start over but there's an archive,) but I can't post it most places because later in the video he just starts doing a bunch of [BEEP] imitations lol.

    "Kant what the [BEEP] does that have to with anything? You're a hot fucking woman OK that's why we're looking at you no other reason why do you think people look at me? Because I'm a hot woman as well. We're the same that's the real that's the black pill on this YouTube thing OK. You can say fucking anything"

    Someone else:

    your ability to ignore the nuance of the fact that the argument you are making is also used to try and discourage trans women from transitioning and lock them into a life of repression and sexual subservience to men is, on the other hand, not funny at all.
    Is this a realistic scenario in the first place? There seemed to be a bunch of femboys on the subreddit years ago who I remember talking about being attracted to women.

    If you remove the label femboy which I've always felt was associated with a narrow anime aesthetic, porn genres, and really only used by gen z, none of this really makes any sense to me as someone who has found androgynous guys attractive sometimes up to the age 40+

    You're also still going to age as a woman and it doesn't particuarly make sense to call yourself a woman if your only going on hrt for aesthetic reasons imo but I realise this is a schism between different groups of trans people.

    i feel like feminine transmascs would still use the term femboy because, well... yeah
    I don't like it personally no because I don't like infantalising labels for myself. Some definitely do. I didn't even like it when people thought I was younger than my age when I was a teenager lol. I found a journal article recently where I was like 16 and like 'I sound like some cringe teen romance thing oh right I'm a 16 year old girl technically.' Sometimes.

    Pretty sure Finn forgot about transmasc femboys
    Well the weirdo below didn't. I think they're mixing it up with 'trap':

    Ngl, I don't get this one

    Trans femboys exist. Do you believe they're less valid because you still deep down see trans men as cis women? You're just recreating rigid gender labels, no?
    Why would trans men want to identify as 'deceitful gay male rapists of straight men'?

    I'm aware there are cooked people everywhere, but "I identify as the transmisogynistic caricature invoked for the trans panic defense" is perhaps where we should be drawing some lines.
    Oh I see. Now you all want to draw some lines lol.

    I think it's more like this F1nn tweet from days ago:

    Oh you're straight? Name every woman.
    "He's not trans he's gender fluid". Okay so just so we're clear you can not exist outside of patriarchy's material binary, even if you don't experience it an understanding of how it materially operates needs to exist in order for you to oppose it. You can not identify out of the material reality of this system anymore than the labour aristocrat cum bourgeoise opts back into a priviliged proletarian status by identifying back into it.
    If your ideology inteferes with or ignores my existence because it was created in isolation which it does with bigender people who are men and women (not unique to this twitter poster,) then I don't care much really.

    And again just a bunch of people being shoved in a virtual room with stuff that really bothers them like white nationalists and raceplay blogs. This discourse can't continue to go on forever and I have similar/overlapping kinks so I'm not really letting that fly either.
    The impulse is pure
    Sometimes our circuits get shorted
    By external interference

    Signals get crossed
    And the balance distorted
    By internal incoherence

    A tired mind become a shape-shifter
    Everybody need a mood lifter
    Everybody need reverse polarity

    Everybody got mixed feelings
    About the function and the form
    Everybody got to deviate
    From the norm

  4. #5599
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    I forgot how dumb and aesthetically irritating [BEEP] discourse twitter was honestly. Everyone's really annoying or terrible on twitter in different ways but it's been a while since I've really read any tweets from that group.

    Casual reminder that the terms "men" "cishet people", "white people", and "the rich" also group people in with their oppressors. And yet we're allowed to use them for analyzing power structures? Funny that, almost like there are some we're not allowed to talk about 🤔
    "Binary trans" "monosexual" is this desire to group people in with their oppressors a fetish or something
    'Casual reminder' is annoying but also yeah most terms group people with some other group like that.

    I do not think that "binary trans" people are "oppressing" nonbinary trans people that is legitimately absurd.
    Are you capable of viewing anything without ascribing a power structure to it? No you're not.

    Maybe there are issues that people from certain groups have, that everyone who isn't part of that group contributes to. Including sometimes towards white cis straight men. Imagine.

    It's not necessarily about oppression, it's also about in-group distinction 🤷🏻*♂️

    enbies often have different experiences than binary trans folks, that's all

    monosexuality is a little different, there is some systemic power in play there
    Nope everything is about oppression lol.

    is this implying that gay men and lesbians have some kind of systemic power over bisexuals cause thats very silly
    It's implying that bisexuals face different issues to homosexuals and have different personality traits on average and shouldn't be grouped with homosexuals or heterosexuals in research. That's the actual problem with erasure you have an invisible group that is also underperforming across almost everything people examine culturally but unlike many groups this group is also erased or absorbed into other groups. It's not just 'oh no that person thinks bisexuality doesn't exist and now I'm not valid.'

    It's "oh no until this study bothered to seperate people we thought women were performing better than men and lesbians are actually performing similarly to men and bisexul women are worse still."

    One recent study looks to change that. Dr. Joel Mittleman, a sociology professor at the University of Notre Dame, compared the academic performance of straight, gay, and bisexual students.
    Gay male students' collegiate success also connects to recent data about their household income, which has exceeded that of heterosexual and lesbian couples in recent years. Sexual orientation, Mittleman argues, reflects something more broadly about gender roles and how [BEEP] students abandoning some traditionally masculine or feminine traits might be linked to behavior and outcomes ? namely, that girls typically do better in school than boys.
    Personally I think it's the ADHD-like symptoms (not actual ADHD necessarily,) like distractibility/motivation issues. Same reason bisexuals can't sit in chairs:





    I've broken multiple chairs actually. Somehow. I'm tiny so it's not a weight thing. That's what makes it weird.

    It's funny because before I saw this meme I was always sitting weirdly in chairs and people sometimes commented on my sitting.

    Although previous accounts of boys' underachievement attest to the pervasiveness of homophobia in boys' peer cultures (Epstein 1998; Morris 2012), they are unable to access the perspectives of those most directly targeted by such cultures: gay/bisexual boys themselves. For gay/bisexual boys, the pressure to prove one's manhood through academic disengagement could feel particularly strong, but it also might feel liberatingly absent.
    For gay/bisexual boys, precisely those aspects of gender that are socially costly could also be academically beneficial. If locally dominant norms of masculinity denigrate academic investment, then being alienated from those norms--and excluded from the peer groups that promote them--could be tremendously beneficial. Similarly, in contexts where teachers criminalize boys' masculinities from an early age (Ferguson 2000; Rios 2011), boys with less normatively masculine gender enactments might endure peer sanctions but avoid the more formalized sanctions imposed by school officials (Mittleman 2018 ).
    I think this is a thing too. Especially in working class environments. This was pretty much a norm in general at my high school (not present in primary school just among teenagers,) that it was uncool to be good at school and if you answered any questions in class you were a 'boffin' lol I forgot about that word. It's cringe itself.

    How do you think other people at school would describe you?" Respondents were given seven response options, ranging from "very feminine" through "very masculine."
    This chart doesn't seem to have Samara from the ring or Wednesday Addams, goth, satan worshipper. I think people thought I was weird but I don't think I came across that masculine and no one used that word or compared me to guys at that age just like a weird person failing at various beauty norms (since that came up several times including one forced makeover.) One girl insisted many times I was a lesbian but that was just her personal thing.

    When I left school I didn't end up picking up my year book because I didn't want to go back to school to get it but my brother got one when he left school and I was looking through it once a long time ago and each of the teachers would write something about their class there and my old form tutor was like 'you guys were so much better than my old terrible class the year before.' And then she was ranting about my class and the students ahahaha.

    I think one guy brought a razor blade into school once (to use as a weapon,) but my memory is vague now. There was this really cute girl in another class who was good at art I think and dating him at one point and I can't remember if that was before or after she dated this cute artsy guy with slightly longer hair than the norm (so think emo-ish style but he wasn't quite emo.) weirdly they both had the same first name. But I never understood that because he didn't just have a trash personality he was also not good looking. But eventually according to Facebook she had a kid with some other guy (not either of those guys.) Either in her late teens or early 20s.

    Can't have been as bad as my brother's class though (he didn't have her as a form tutor,) one guy who bullied his friend was infamous and eventually got involved in selling drugs and then went to prison for murder cause he shot someone.

    Third, unlike the clear divide between gay boys and lesbian girls, bisexual boys and bisexual girls are generally disadvantaged compared to their straight schoolmates. These disadvantages are particularly pronounced for bisexual girls, who report statistically significant disadvantages for every academic outcome considered. For bisexual boys, the pattern of results is more complex. For several outcomes from high school, bisexual boys are almost at parity with straight boys. Nevertheless, something seems to intervene in bisexual boys' lives that prevents them from translating high school performance into postsecondary enrollment. Compared to observably similar straight boys from the same high school, bisexual boys were about 10 percentage points less likely (p < .01) to be enrolled for a bachelor?s degree at the time of the postsecondary survey.
    The results in Table 5 show that--over and above binary sex, sexual identity, race/ethnicity, nativity, and parents' socioeconomic status--gender atypicality is a highly significant (p < .001) predictor of students' high school GPAs. Moreover, for gay boys and lesbian girls, gender atypicality goes a fair way in explaining their academic (dis)advantages. Controlling for gender atypicality reduces the magnitude of gay boys' GPA advantage by about 28 percent and lesbian girls' GPA disadvantage by about 14 percent. Nevertheless, both gay boys and lesbian girls still maintain statistically significant, substantively large (dis)advantages even after controlling for gender atypicality. By contrast, controlling for gender atypicality leaves bisexual students? GPA disadvantages almost entirely unchanged. I more fully explore the implications of these results in the Discussion section.
    For lesbian/bisexual girls, to the extent that students construct academic engagement as feminine, an internally felt aversion to "girliness" may encourage some to view school skeptically. This internal feeling could find external reinforcement in how lesbian/bisexual girls are treated by school officials. If teachers see lesbian/bisexual girls as enacting masculinity, this could make them prime targets for the "bad girl" penalty identified by previous research. This risk could be especially high for Black girls, who are already stereotyped as masculine by White authority figures (Ispa-Landa 2013; Jones 2010). In this way, LGB identities could be doubly disadvantaging for girls: both socially risky and academically costly.
    Uh I don't think it's that simple all the time. I think a lot of these norms come from joining subcultures. Like alternative subcultures are mixed on how they view education. Some kind of promote certain forms of education and creativity, but also denigrate school and authority figures others are kind of nerdy and promote education and knowledge of tech - the balance always varies though. Creative people also don't tend to do well in school. Then you get messages like this (just my generation of course):



    Better homes and safety-sealed communities
    Did you remember to pay the utility?
    Caution, police line, you better not cross
    Is the cop or am I the one that's really dangerous?
    Sanitation, expiration date, question everything
    Or shut up and be a victim of authority


    I think this is about school I owned this album but didn't listen to it as much as Kerplunk and their other albums:



    And I'm looking back now
    At where I have gone wrong
    And why I could not seem to get along
    My interests are longing
    To break from these chains
    These chains that control
    My future's aim

    I sit in the state of a daydream
    With all of your words flying over my head
    Even more time gets wasted
    In a daze


    The lead singer of this band was bisexual and I think they attracted bisexual people in their audience to some extent because of this like with the emo genre where there was that stereotype although I think most guys in bands were straight and most people in these subcultures were either straight or didn't label their sexuality.

    Very political music:



    So that band did have an impact on me when I was like around 14/15 or something. B.Y.O.B espcially. I was creating art work with their song lyrics lol:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUzd9KyIDrM

    And the music of the early 2000s had a big impact on millenials relationship to war as well.

    Then as you go through the late 90s and 2000s you get a lot of music about war and terrorism and fear politics and school shootings in the US started to influence music etc. And this live performance and his opening message is very illustrative of the mood of that era so I think this is a really important historical video too:



    Song references 7/7 bombing and the backlash:



    edgy songs again with similar themes (Billy Talent River Below):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJDjLin2W5E

    When 9/11 happened I was a bit younger and I did have an American teacher that year so it came up but I don't for example remember where I was when I heard about it. But when 7/7 happened in the UK I was in English class when I found out and remember that and when I was looking through my old journal the other day I found a post about that when I was 14 which is cringe also I could never spell well etc and no spell checker lol:

    Recently I feel as if I'm in some kind of twighlight zone situation. I heard about the London bombing which I wasn't to shocked about because I knew something like that would happen soon. After this however I found out that they suspected some car in Birmingham had bombs in it and in Leihgton Buzzard. I live in Luton which is where they found a car with bombs in by the train station and my mum said she swore she heard bombs going off from our house (this would be the controlled bombs to get rid of the bombs.) The thing that seems unreal to me is how it's all happening so fast. I may sound really over the top but I'm worried I might die soon or that someone I care about might. -sigh-

    They will not stop me living my life though! That will never happen.
    Why did I assume it would happen lol? I mean the political climate and various cultural tensions at the time were crazy but it's not like I was paying that close attention most of the time and not sure what my thinking was based on now. Also they did find bombs there it was in the news but I don't remember hearing anything and not sure if my mum actually did or just imagined that. Also by 'controlled bombs' I mean explosion.

    I like how I alternate between not giving a [BEEP] and then being overly dramatic 'I might die soon'

    I still kind of have those modes though. It's like this:



    ALSO CNN:

    July 12, 2005 - More than a dozen unexploded bombs are found in a car at Luton station in north London, sources tell CNN. July 13, 2005 - Three of the four suicide bombers are identified as Shehzad Tanweer (Aldgate), Hasib Hussain (Tavistock Square), and Mohammed Siddique Khan (Edgware Road).
    STOP DOING THIS AMERICANS etc.

    It's not in London mate. It's not even ambiguous Luton is not under the mayor of London, not in greater London etc. This is a bit like saying New Jersey is New York but even further removed because parts of New Jersey are part of 'greater New York' England is much smaller country so the psychological relationship to space is very different lol like:



    I haven't seen my friend who lives in Scotland in years lol. It takes 3-4 hours or so by train to get from Bedfordshire to Manchester and you can travel through Coventry, Birmingham, Manchester, Milton Keynes, Nottingham, Luton, Sheffield, etc in the space of several hours and they're all lightyears away from each other.

    I do think people were concerned at the time though. I remember I went to London with my social circle and one close friend around that time either 2005 or 2006 and one girl wasn't allowed to go and I think she brought up the attacks or something. I always thought the underground was kind of creepy and had horror movie vibes even before this because of the sounds and the fact it's underground and everything it's a weird environment. I talked about this before as well but I started writing a story which included a magical underground train in the early 2010s lol.

    Found this thread lol:

    Places that give you a bad vibe?

    What are some places that give you a bad vibe in London? Maybe not even for any specific reason, they just make you feel unsettled/creeped out ?
    Getting away from the dangerous and threatening and into the uncanny.

    The City very late at night. Absolutely empty. Nobody actually lives there at all. Very weird liminal vibe.

    The Hawksmoor churches in the East End. Always seem oddly out of scale with their surroundings with weird angles. Lovecraftian.

    Farringdon. Spooky as fuck.

    The crossbones graveyard in Borough is pretty eerie.
    *takes notes about Hawksmoor*

    Loved walking from Leicester Square to Waterloo in the early hours of the morning lol due to disruption on the underground but there were still some homeless people around I think.

    https://www.exutopia.com/an-occult-p...ndon-churches/

    An Occult Psychogeography of Hawksmoor's London Churches
    There was a time when I used to hate London. I thought of it as a compound of tourist hotspots, rude locals and (admittedly quite useful) airports. Back then, I didn?t have much interest in graphic novels, either. My opinion on both has since reversed, and it?s in no small part due to the incomparable work of speculative historical fiction that is From Hell; written by Alan Moore, and brought vividly to life through the artwork of Eddie Campbell.
    I think it's possible to at least somewhat improve your view of any place by changing the narrative of the space. This doesn't solve the problem of other people, objective reality of what's there etc but it's the one thing you have control over.

    Jack the Ripper, Alan Moore & The Art of Psychogeography
    Essentially, the result is an occult psychogeography of London; a study not of stones, but rather a very personal exploration of the meanings etched into them? and the subtle yet pervasive effect these have on the people who live in their shadows. ?Encoded in this city?s stones are symbols thunderous enough to rouse the sleeping Gods submerged beneath the sea-bed of our dreams,? the fictional Gull tells us.
    He does seem to try to do that yeah. He was talking about this in a recent interview I watched a year or so ago and how we 'need more ghosts.' Because a lot of places are dead and lifeless. Also trying to do that with his town Northampton more. I wasn't aware of that term 'pyschogeography' though.

    I think it's especially difficult now because everything is online.

    I am quite interested in that concept of environments and what Alan Moore was talking about in the interview though but again if you spend more time online then it's easy to say 'spend less time online' but people won't so that has to be factored in.

    Psychogeography is the exploration of urban environments that emphasizes interpersonal connections to places and arbitrary routes. It was developed by members of the Letterist International and Situationist International, which were revolutionary groups influenced by Marxist and anarchist theory as well as the attitudes and methods of Dadaists and Surrealists.[1][2][3]
    Oh it reminds me of the other thing. What was it called. They had a bunch of tangential stuff. Derive yes there's an app based on this but have not tried it yet:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9rive

    The derive (French: [de.ʁiv], "drift") is an unplanned journey through a landscape, usually urban, in which participants stop focusing on their everyday relations to their social environment.[1] Developed by members of the Letterist International, it was first publicly theorized in Guy Debord's "Theory of the Derive" (1956).[2][3] Debord defines the derive as "a mode of experimental behaviour linked to the conditions of urban society: a technique of rapid passage through varied ambiances."[4]

    The derive's goals include studying the terrain of the city (psychogeography) and emotional disorientation, both of which lead to the potential creation of Situations.
    Randonautica (a portmanteau of "random" + "nautica") is an app launched on February 22, 2020 founded by Auburn Salcedo and Joshua Lengfelder (/l?nɡf?ldɛr/). It randomly generates coordinates that enable the user to explore their local area and report on their findings. According to its creators, the app is "an attractor of strange things," letting one choose specific coordinates based on a certain theme.[1] It has gained controversy after several reports on the app generating coordinates, seemingly coincidentally, where disturbing things were present.
    I was contemplating using that the last time I went to London but didn't but might in the future.

    as with all exploration apps people ended up finding a bunch of dead bodies like Pokemon Go. So that's mostly what came up while searching about it before lol! I think in this case that was played up a little by some people to make it seem more spooky/edgy/interesting etc. On a large enough scale it becomes increasingly likely of course that that will happen to someone.

    I read this page before but it's interesting:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterotopia_(space)

    Heterotopia is a concept elaborated by philosopher Michel Foucault to describe certain cultural, institutional and discursive spaces that are somehow "other": disturbing, intense, incompatible, contradictory or transforming. Heterotopias are worlds within worlds, mirroring and yet upsetting what is outside. Foucault provides examples: ships, cemeteries, bars, brothels, prisons, gardens of antiquity, fairs, Muslim baths and many more. Foucault outlines the notion of heterotopia on three occasions between 1966 and 1967. A lecture given by Foucault to a group of architects in 1967 is the most well-known explanation of the term.[1] His first mention of the concept is in his preface to The Order of Things, and refers to texts rather than socio-cultural spaces.[2]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-place

    Non-place or nonplace is a neologism coined by the French anthropologist Marc Auge to refer to anthropological spaces of transience where human beings remain anonymous, and that do not hold enough significance to be regarded as "places" in their anthropological definition. Examples of non-places would be motorways, hotel rooms, airports and shopping malls. The term was introduced by Marc Aug? in his work Non-places: introduction to an anthropology of supermodernity.[1]
    That seems to be mostly overlapping with liminal spaces.

    https://artwarepbk.nl/onderzoek-project/non-place/



    I like how this is kind of making me think of an office space combined with a parking lot.

    Website is in Dutch so have to translate it.

    As cities expand and grow towards each other, common ground is slowly but surely emerging along the external borders. It is those industrial areas, shopping malls, airports, hospitals and business parks that are creating strange new centers all over the world and that have much the same insignificant character. Aug? takes the airport as a primeval model for his theory of non place. Anyone who finds themselves in such a place never knows exactly where they are. It could be somewhere in Africa, Asia, America or Europe?

    Marc Auge then describes the Non Place as a place that is designed to be passed through and that does not challenge 'taking up space' or 'owning one's own place'. It is a place that people commit to for a shorter period of time for reasons other than the place itself. One of those reasons could be that the place is a passage, access to something else, but not only in the sense of physical movement from one thing to another, but also in a mental sense.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgelands

    Edgelands is a term for the transitional, liminal zone of space created between rural and urban areas as formed by urbanisation.[1] These spaces often contain nature alongside cities, towns, roads and other unsightly but necessary buildings, such as power substations or depots, at the edge of cities.[2]
    This is a fun rabbit hole.

    Thank you annoying twitter people. Even though this is really just my brain being chaotic and not staying on point lol.

    Also I looked at some images of those churches and wasn't really getting the vibe but it's probably going to be more obvious in person if at all. Also it's often better to stumble on things by accident. Like one time in probably early 2020 (just before covid,) me and my brother found this underground area - Leake Street Arches - near Waterloo station that was full of graffiti and insanely cool by accident. It's actually kind of a famous spot but we had no idea it was there so that was cool.

    Also going back yeah a lot of music was also gen x's personal issues and struggles of their peers etc in song lyrics:



    Jamie had a chance, well, she really did
    Woah-oh
    Instead she dropped out and had a couple of kids
    Woah-oh
    Mark still lives at home 'cause he's got no job
    Woah-oh
    He just plays guitar and smokes a lot of pot


    Which also became millenials problems. Of course bands like MCR etc took that further and this started with post-punk again I think.

    Let's go to the mall and cause chaos:





    Are you ready to be liberated
    On this sad side city street?
    Well, the birds have been freed from their cages
    I got freedom and my youth

    My name is Brody, I'm from Melbourne
    Fitzroy Melbourne, Fitzroy Melbourne
    I grew up on Bell Street, then on Bennett Street
    My mum kicked out my dad for battery

    Found a way, found a way
    She found a way out of spiritual penury
    Working single mother in an urban struggle
    Blames herself now 'cause I grew up troubled

    It hit me
    I got everything I need
    It hit me
    I got everything I need


    Freedom is kind of a recurring ideal obviously.

    This girl is drawing in class and not listening lol (I have a memory of being yelled at for this at age 5 or so which seems insane)



    I kind of can't talk about this period without bringing up Marilyn Manson I guess:



    But I imagined this song was about by my bully when I was younger. I love Deftones.



    OK you get the idea though.

    That was mainstream stuff too. It's all kind of teenage edgy stuff or 'question authority' etc. Some of this music was what I was listening to a lot in my early teens especially lol. I got more into stuff like The Cure and Patrick Wolf from about the age of 16. I point this out because if you're that much of an outcast your cultural norms will come from the internet and music and now video games. This is especially true today obviously (universal probably now,) but started with my generation in the early 2000s. (I mean the music thing started decades ago but the internet aspect the 2000s.)

    It's interesting to compare that to like the music and messages that people might have listened to in the 1980s like this song below but Rush are a 1970s band that continued making music decades later and the 1980s and the bands that got famous then were already very into this culture with post punk so you have to go back to the 60s and 70s to get more optimism generally but the comments on this music track I think are kind of revealing:



    35 years later, this song still inspires me. Every time I see a rocket launch I think of it. How many of us Rush fans grew up to be engineers, scientists, or techies of some sort? These three guys aren't just rock stars; they actually inspire people to do cool stuff with their lives.
    Absolutely science rules BSEE University of Colorado 2002, thank you HR
    They still inspire me to learn and strive to be the best I can at what ever I am doing and to understand that there is always room for improvement. Nobody is perfect but anyone can be great as long as you have drive and an open mind!
    I went from a pest control guy to a mechanic/machinist on subs so I can agree with this. Something about science versus mother nature is always so inspiring. I've also played bass since I was 14 and trying to get the Geddy chops down... Something about them just hits all the right spots for me. Love that band from up North!
    Almost 45 years later I'm a Associate Consultant for BP with a BSIT in Computer Science and a MSIT in Cybersecurity. NP inspired me to be a better player and he taught me that you could be smart and still have a primal urge to play drums.
    They inspired me to be pilot... Thanks Rush!
    Unfortunately bands like this have a bunch of pretentious fans/comments which you can see in the comment section too but not going to go into that lol. Someone felt the need to compare the song to Beyonce for some weird reason.

    Well TBH I love RUSH and am sitting here Jobless and about to lose my internet, [BEEP] happens.
    lol as a counterpoint I suppose.

    I think a lot of Green Day's music was more upbeat and I still look back on that now and then with nostalgia. I also find Cradle of Filth and their aesthetic very nostlagic even though at the time I only listened to a small amount of their songs. It reminds me of Camden again lol (everything reminds me of that in different ways because there's a diverse range of alternative stuff there or was,) independent shops with horror movie memorabilia in. And my temporary fixation with the Hellraiser films. And also I hung out with this boy a few times at my house who was friends with my brother who introduced me to this band and also maybe the Tenacious D Tribute video which was very funny at the time.



    But the culture a lot of boys had in my school I'm not even going to call it masculine it's really just thug culture. And some of them are doing it somewhat ironically (which I don't really care about that would by hypocritical,) and some of them are actually violent and get involved in criminal activity later on. I do think school is terrible in general the way it works by putting a bunch of kids together and forcing them to socialise when they're very different people and it works like prison, and that it also punishes creativity. I think the entire education system should be overhauled actually. But this particualr subset of masculine culture is just dumb and violent.

    I think part of the reason this one guy thought I was more masculine in uni was because (although most of the people I hung out with then were working class still or lower middle class,) it was an envirnoment that has norms that are of a higher class and he was of a higher class background. The higher up the class ladder you go the more feminine the culture is seen to be and vice versa for some reason. So by my home town standards I was posh by some people's standards because I didn't adopt the kind of urban social persona. But then when I went to uni people commented on that in the other direction. So you also have to factor in class based norms as well.

    And it's weird but going to uni was ultimately a kind of non-conforming act lol especially what I chose to study. I mean I'd always wanted to do it (I remember thinking about this as a young kid,) and by that point that was the subject I'd decided on. But before uni I was surrounded by people especially boys who 80% just didn't care about education or what they were studying etc. Even my dad tried to talk me out of studying what I did initially and tbf it didn't work out lol. I don't regret it at all now though and I think uni is a much better experience than school overall.

    I also struggled a lot with internal motivation and attention due to probably undiagnosed issues that have been there even as a young kid really so my grades were about average or just below rarely just above. I graduated uni with the lowest grade you can get. This could have been worse of course.

    So yeah people get so hung up on this idea of the problem being that people don't think you're valid and I know that's annoying but actually what happens is you don't understand yourself, you don't understand why you end up in the situations you're in, other people don't understand you because you're invisible (sort of - they often notice tangential things like say dyed hair.) Everyone tries to force you to be 'normal (tm)'
    The impulse is pure
    Sometimes our circuits get shorted
    By external interference

    Signals get crossed
    And the balance distorted
    By internal incoherence

    A tired mind become a shape-shifter
    Everybody need a mood lifter
    Everybody need reverse polarity

    Everybody got mixed feelings
    About the function and the form
    Everybody got to deviate
    From the norm

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    Something that I don't really see anyone bring up but seems to be at the root of a lot of online discourse/issues between transmasc and transfeminine cultures is that over the past several decades a large chunk of masculinity has been dragged into femininity or 'femaleness.' (or well plenty of people talk about this but I mean specifically with a focus on trans people.)

    But trans men didn't really get the memo lol.

    This works well for trans women to some extent because it means as long as they have feminine bone structure or can pass as reasonably female they get to be feminine but clearly a lot of non-conforming women, trans men and certain non-binary people end up having issues with this. Many people they look up to as icons of alternative masculinity end up coming out as trans women or transfemme, trans women accuse trans masc people of 'stealing their culture' or appropriating it or wanting to be trans women etc.

    These kind of ridiculous arguments:

    Why would trans men want to identify as 'deceitful gay male rapists of straight men'?

    I'm aware there are cooked people everywhere, but "I identify as the transmisogynistic caricature invoked for the trans panic defense" is perhaps where we should be drawing some lines.
    I feel like it's hard to 'rape' those guys when they're sending you private messages saying they Spoiler: want to suck your dick after you told them you weren't interested already and actually blocked them on another website because they weren't accepting that and you don't even have a dick and they know that because you posted about being non-binary and genetically female all the time and they follow all your posts.

    I dunno they didn't really try to communicate with me in any other way before getting to that point and didn't send me pictures of themselves or anything so there was no basis to form attraction based on either personality or appearence. I had nothing to work with.

    I don't think femboys are a central example of this type since I don't think most trans men or non-binary people and certainly over a certain age have any interest in using the label femboy and femboy is more associated with a specific infantalised image as I said and also this which doesn't appeal to everyone (although I think a lot of feminine trans guys are bottoms and/or submissive sexually from what I noticed anecdotally):

    What do you think the implication of femininity being conflated with submission means about femboy culture?
    Your a sub because you think femininity has to mean submission

    I'm a sub because I know femininity looks better with domination
    But something similar often occurs anyway.

    The femboy discourse specifically though gets really insane like this trans woman is considerably older I think actually but the kids are not OK:

    The femboys are developing Femboy Nationalism because the bodies of women are no longer theirs to control.
    oof. This is why I don't trust c*s male femboys, because the worst part is that she's right 💀 I've seen this happen way too many times. Traitors, every single one of em. I'll respect their new gender but god, it sucks to keep losing femboys either to this bullshit or twink death
    You mean aging lol? I think the ultimate irony like some kind of cosmic irony is a while back people were making memes about Leonardo Dicaprio the way he looked when he was in Titanic and the Terminator films (wait wrong guy lmfao. That was Edward Furlong. I'm leaving this in because that's hilarious. They're all one person to me,) and comparing it to now and then discussing his constant switching to younger girlfriends that's become a meme too he can't date anyone over age 25 (supposedly.) That is funny. He became the chaser (of young people,) now. It's working for him though because he's straight and succesful. Well the media aren't happy at all because you're supposed to find older women more attractive or something.

    I find older women attractive. In the film contact Jodie Foster was- oh wait I'm 33 too. Never mind.

    Oh that's right I'm old now.

    Leo is 49 so I'm not sure what age women he should be dating.

    "DiCaprio's girlfriend is so young she probably studied the Romeo and Juliet film he starred in when she was at school," a second chimed in.
    Eh tbf we watched that film when we studied it in school and I'm 33. So I guess the answer is 'older than 33' lol. These jokes could be better.

    Does it count if the person is old but the photo is younger? I thought I'd seen most photos of young Geddy Lee at this point (and gifs) but just found this one I haven't seen before while browsing tumblr:



    I wonder what their position is on time travel cloning.

    It's difficult to socially age as an androgynous afab person unless you go on testosterone or are Kate Moennig and that's a horrifying existence (awkward sentence construction Kate Moennig escaped the horrifying existence I'm saying):



    I didn't really need to link a video but OK.

    Also the cultural bubble they're in is funny. Like Leisha talks 16:30 minutes in about going to get her nails done with someone and how everyone around her were like 'gross why did you get them done?' and she doesn't like them but she wants to keep them to show her that she kept them LOL. I clicked to a random part of the video so I don't know who she went with (edit: her niece,) and Kate's just like 'I don't think anyone noticed your fingers.' And she's like 'people will notice if they're looking.' You can't even see her hands in the video though lol. This kind of culture is not very fun if you're a very feminine person though.

    I mean it's really down to bone structure and body language and your voice pitch if you want to not look/seem like a teenager forever.

    Otherwise so much of adult womanhood is tied up with feminine expression and obviously secondary sex characteristics. Very little choice. I can't imagine this hysteria about age gap relationships and height gap relationships and so on is going to help this either. I bet lots more people are going to develop self image issues about this.

    I have photos of myself from my mid 20s where I just look like a teen boy or something sometimes emo teen boy. I looked back. Another reason I can't have short hair though I like long hair so it's not that bad.

    I mean it will happen eventually but it takes a long time. I remember finding someone online who was agender and felt they related to Cassandra the vampire child from Interview with the Vampire and I kind of got that and contemplated that myself.

    Kind of anti-femboy in that sense lol.

    And then I love how his response to 'femboys are developing nationalism' was just 'I'm a trans man' as though that's a defence against tribalistic tendencies what?:

    I'm a trans man.
    that doesnt exempt you from misogyny or transmisogyny
    My sister is a trans woman and I'd kill if someone misgendered her.
    You still follow a regressive and misogynistic culture
    Femboys aren't a "regressive and misogynistic" culture, are you stupid?
    It is quite literally part of the reconstruction of patriarchal and pederastic culture of Roman masculinism.
    You know you're being transphobic towards me by not respecting my gender identity and how I present myself.
    "You are reconstructing the Roman ideal of masculinism" is actually the opposite of not respecting your identity.
    I also think a lot of this circle hate 'fujoshi' for similar reasons. Essentially the bishonen aesthetic overlaps with aesthetics of Western angels and Greco Roman culture and they dislike this and also see it as a threat to transfemininity. I feel like they probably hate kpop too. Lesbian culture emphasises this kind of androgynous ideal too though like a large chunk of it. Slightly different from the specific femboy presentation that appeals to cis straight men sexually but still similar.

    They're trying to recreate the gender war of cishet culture and trans men who end up in these debates online are just not really playing along propery and even bring up the fact they're trans as a defence against the idea that they could be oppressing them or misogynistic. Plus if you're afab most of the time at some point you will have experienced misogyny it's built into transphobia but pointing that kind of thing out is another thing a lot of this circle dislike. Sometimes less often cis gay men will do the same thing like use their homosexuality as a defence against why they can't be misogynistic especially if they're feminine. Which frustrates them.

    But I think the whole thing is mostly dumb lol so.

    Stumbled on this post I read a while ago again a couple of days ago which fits in:

    I was chilling with a theyfab friend telling them that I present masculine and feminine in and 70:30 ratio. Then they asked about how I feel about presenting androgynous.

    One thing led to another and the conversation turned to male rock stars and visual k idols. When they dress androgynously its seen as subversive and scandalous even. Its distinctive.

    When females do it they are just a tomboy. There needs to be outright masculinity for GNC status. I know rationally that this is because during the sexual revolution, on mass, women started embracing androgynous style and to sustain itself patriarchy needed to adapt. But its still a blackpill.

    Whilst neither myself or my friend are identified with the woman label however we still both feel stifled by this reality.

    Its honestly a blackpill that ill never be atsushi Sakurai

    iwnbas
    Apparently just unironically using 'theyfab' now fucking 4chan lol...

    Oh that's that guy from this band they're talking about. Also didn't realise but he died last October apparently:



    After falling ill during a Buck-Tick concert, Sakurai died from a brainstem hemorrhage in a Yokohama hospital on October 19, 2023.
    Something like this has happened 3 times that I'm aware of with visual kei or similar genre musicians from Japan twice while in concert which is kind of weird. I mean I've only listened to severel visual kei bands so yeah. There was one of the members of the band ADAMs who had a stroke on stage in Poland and died and then the lead singer of the band Kagerou I was reading about that band and it turned out he died in 2010 from a heart attack I think? At age 31. I feel like there are some other people I heard about and I'm forgetting about too. I mean he was a bit older but still not that old.

    Has anyone noticed how many artists in the VK scene die of brain aneurisms? Strange sicknesses? I always thought it was strange, and not the whole truth- maybe the other members were covering for suicides or something. Has anyone ever noticed this?
    So I'm not the only one who's noticed. There are a bunch of Japanese musicians and actors who have died by suicide though where they're up front about it being suicide so I dunno. But this might be like the '27 club' thing where they did a paper and found people are just paying more attention to that but it's not actually more common. Also maybe related to this:

    Karoshi (Japanese: 過労死, Hepburn: Karōshi), which can be translated into "overwork death", is a Japanese term relating to occupation-related sudden death.[1]

    The most common medical causes of karoshi deaths are heart attacks and strokes due to stress and malnourishment or fasting. Mental stress from the workplace can also cause workers to commit suicide in a phenomenon known as karojisatsu (過労自殺).[1]
    Anyway I thought at the time that Lady Gaga sort of pulled this off but people ultimately ended up thinking she was a trans woman so not really. And there's discourse about that too as well even more so with Aubrey Plaza when she once encouraged an interviewer to start a rumour that she has a dick.

    Trans women really hate it when cis women or when non-binary people and sometimes trans men but less often especially if they go on hrt - try to give off the impression online that they're amab (because a lot of identity and expression is built online now so it's easier to do this,) so they can be treated like men who are just presenting in an androgynous way. Cause obviously doing this relies on the assumption sometimes that they are trans women and that trans women are androgynous men.

    A trans woman I really thought I respected posted something about how she's tired of "theyfabs" because "they're just women lite and don't put in any effort to transition". It hurt to see since I'm AFAB and non-binary, and it made me feel like even other trans people see us as our AGABs. My best guess would be that she may have felt upset that people would willingly give up femininity, which is something I've heard from another trans girl mention when she saw some of her friends stop presenting femme.
    On the contrary a lot of men are women lite now so we're just ahead of the curve. If right wing news sources going back over a hundred years are to be believed (and someone did make a long twitter thread compiling news articles going back over a hundred years lol,) then in about 50-300 years time the men will be so feminine (due to becoming more feminine for over a hundred years) that I will be considered an alpha male by those future standards. So it's all just a matter of time. When the transhumanists finally cure aging and enough time passes it will all make sense. Apparently Ben Shapiro and Tim Pool think they are alpha males which is good. I won't have to wait much longer.

    Anyway I've invented a new form of nihilism built around the idea that I don't have a dick so it doesn't matter. And I don't really want to get surgery and I think that's pretty common not wanting surgery. And I don't even want a dick only for sex.

    There's still the social dysphoria though so can't really win.

    I am just exhausted. A friend of mine, who is a binary trans woman, said something about wishing she was a "theyfab", and it was the first time I've ever heard the word.

    After looking it up I'm just so disappointed and upset. I use any pronouns, and my gender identity is something I don't really think about at all. I am just a person. I guess you could say I'm "mostly fem presenting" but I just have long hair and wear clothes I look good in. Everyone sees me as a woman, which is frustrating and bothers me. I don't like being assigned characteristics based on the body I was born with. Obviously.
    Yeah I've come across this before. Mostly trans women from 4chan. So what happens is they'll say they want to be afab non-binary (theyfab,) not cis women they weirdly specifically envy afab non-binary (and of course only a specific kind of feminine type,) then since they're women they get annoyed that non-binary people are you know non-binary and a lot of afab non-binary people are also men and enjoy being gendered as male realistically.

    My gut instinct is your binary friend isn?t as binary as she thinks she is and is struggling with some sunk cost fallacy shit.

    I know that?s not relevant and I share in your frustration with that word.
    Yes there's a reason there are barely any amab non-binary people anyway that isn't our problem.

    Some people see this kind of thing as transgressive and that's why they like it, and for others it's just kind of who they are/normal they want it to be normalised they don't want it to be edgy and I do have a lot of sympathy with that especially when it comes to the subset of men who respond violently. It's quite difficult managing these two populations who have completly conflicting relationships to similar stuff.

    F1nn gives off the impression of someone who's kind of trolling everyone like the recent clip I was talking about where he talks about the label femboy proabably dying out in a few years to be replaced with something else because everyone using it transistions and then calling his audience 'fellas for now' and things like that. And that annoys both cis and trans femboys who identify as men or really anyone who has that attachment. It's funny it bugs me (just describing my emotional reaction not making a value judgement,) and I'm bigender but gender is really weird for me. In one context I'm a guy and in another I'm a woman lol.

    At other points he'll annoy trans woman because he plays into the 'trap' thing and jokes that men who are attracted to him are gay but also women I mean he makes this joke with his girlfriend sometimes. He's joked about that too. 'I get to decide when you're gay.' Very edgy. That's not in this video I cba searching:



    I'm constantly reminded of just how fucking bored people are lol.

    Also does things like this. He sent that to Andrew Tate and then got blocked:



    I do think this kind of thing can be very entertaining. I mean I'm kind of sadistic in general (like lowkey sadism,) and I think this is an extension of that. You have to reign it in I guess or you should but I think at the point where they're being such huge assholes it's like 'you've given me permission.'



    "I benefited from honest to god homophobia they did not like me they were genuinely scared."

    Also she said that one time she got roped into going to the toilet with a bunch of women in a nightclub and they all went into the same cubicle together to go to the toilet. That's the first time I've ever heard of anyone doing that and that is really not normal lol.

    And this is the competition that trans women don't want to be involved in especially because of the violence.

    And I started thinking about this again because aside from the makeup we wear really similar clothing and have similar build's and hair it's weird.



    I also saw this video recently:



    And I've spoken about Kurt Cobain before because this discourse has been going on for years. So I can't be bothered to touch on that aspect of this now. It's obvious though that he had a lot of issues and that suicide ran in his family for multiple generations actually. But you could see in the comments there were a lot of trans guys (or there were a bunch I'm too lazy to find now,) who talked about relating to him because of his relationship to hegemonic masculinity. Which didn't surprise me at all he's exactly the kind of guy that trans guys tend to model themselves on.

    So you get this argument between trans masc and some non-binary people and especially [BEEP] trans women and transfemme people because straight trans women tend to be so feminine and so seperated that there's less overlap overall (think that was less true in the past, but certainly now,) but [BEEP] trans women are more androgynous on average so there are overlapping cultures etc.

    The argument is a kind of territorial culture war over whether certain interests, ways of presenting, specific people are a non-conforming form of maleness and masculinity or womanhood. And obviously afab people in particular who are trans or trans-adj and are maybe dysphoric etc have a stronger connection to the male identity than amab trans and trans -adj people tend to so it becomes a huge issue.

    And you get people lamenting about why all trans guys are feminine and androgynous or don't transistion medically and aren't very masculine but obviously a lot of the guys who are go stealth and also there's a general dislike of masculinity in certain cultures too which puts people off.

    And in response to this sort of thing obviously Nyx (who is a trans woman,) created the gender accelerataionist blackpaper which talks about how everyone is being feminised and eventually the only gender left will be women. She didn't mean this in a 'this is good' sense though but in a 'this is what seems to be happening' sense. Which of course is an idea right wing men take seriously. The people who are most defensive against this idea are obviously the most masculine men because they are the group most identified with masculinity and maleness.

    And you get writers like this one annoying chaser guy (prefers having sex with trans women especially in East Asia,) from Scotland who thinks there are essentially two genders but it's like masculine cis men and then everyone else. Sometimes he includes trans men if they're very masculine and straight (attracted to women.)

    This argument is the core of a lot of issues though. Socially dysphoric afab people are not OK with being lumped exclusively or in some cases at all into womanhood and also won't commit to masculinity to the degree necessary and you have people going the other way who were always ambivalent and just like 'eh fine I guess I'm a woman sure.' Or they actively always saw themselves as women so it was ideal for them anyway.

    And I love seeing the interractions also between trans women and non-binary people where they're completely confused by how people are doing things or they're desperately trying to make it fit into a dumb feminist ideological framework:

    I don't think trans men ID as genderfluid, genderfluid seems like it's own thing that falls under the trans umbrella but it isn't a fixed position like trans man is.
    i know multiple who do.

    take bi-gender man-women for example. if they were dfab, they've transitioned into manhood while maintaining a connection to womanhood. they often refer to themselves as bi-gender trans men, gender-fluid trans men, nby trans men, etc.
    Yeah so bigender again seems like an entirely different thing that we're lumping under the same umbrella as trans man when that's a specific identification with the patriarchal class of man, not man and woman.
    are bi-gender men not men?
    I suppose that'd depend on what their second gender is.
    yeaaahhh that makes no sense to me. they ID as men cuz they're men
    If they ID as men then they ID with the patriarchal class.
    how do u think that interacts with bi-gender folk also IDing as a subordinate class? /genq
    I think the hegemonic class trumps the subordinate class in that case.
    ok i actually have a part 2 to this question cuz i just realized TME and TMA might be an important distinction. what if said bi-gender person was TMA? let?s say they?re transitioning MTF for simplicity?s sake. /genq i?m seriously wondering
    Well if they're adopting the social role and signifiers of womanhood then they will be read as woman within the class framework of patriarchy. I suppose it would depend on whether the bi-gender person is transitioning or not transitioning.
    I love how the end result is logic like 'I'm oppressing myself.' I mean technically that is a thing though people stop themselves from doing things they want to do all the time. But yeah that's actually why you can't really be a feminist and bigender. Well at least you can't be a [BEEP] theorist + feminist and bigender because there's too much invested in the differentiation of the groups man and woman.

    Then someone posted a meme image that had some image of a guy being brainwashed with 'trans girl indoctrination machine' on it and the text:

    'I understand I deserve more than being a boy and being a sex object online for men I am a girl and a lesbian and should start hrt'
    Either trolling or you've gone through some [BEEP] but actually some people are still attracted to men and going on estrogen generally makes more men attracted to you not less especially if you're reasonably feminine. This is a problem if you are attracted to women:




    Just slightly different/overlapping demographic of men.

    Black pill for you.

    I just found this video while looking up the other and I think it's very difficult like it's hard if you're a feminine cis women but at least there's some knowledge of feminine bisexual women and to a lesser extent femme lesbians but because there's almost a 1:1 association in people's minds with being amab and expressing this level of femininity with being exclusively attracted to men this would be quite difficult:



    Lol she says "all the trans women I know are straight I didn't know any trans lesbians" I'm not surprised because her social circle was probably people with similar gender expression.

    Just study a video game related degree or hang out with programmers. During my time at uni I met one trans woman who had started transistioning who I think was into women, then there was this trans woman who at the time wasn't out as a trans woman but had a crush on me which I didn't reciprocate. She once commented I love you on one of my facebook pics and then deleted the message minutes later but I read it and that was awkward. We worked on a group project once with that trans woman actually weirdly but otherwise I didn't talk to her at all but she added me on steam and a bunch of websites like I posted poetry on this one site and she followed me there she didn't present femininely at all back then and I only found out she transistioned because my friend told me about it (since I stopped using facebook in 2014.) Also met someone who later came out as non-binary at uni who I had a crush on.

    I'm trans girl, I like men but I love girls kinda tomboys OMG
    I could date a girl with a masculine energy, but I couldn't date another trans girl
    I guess the thought process here was 'oh hey I'm kind of bi/attracted to women too because of the tomboys' but not the best thing to comment on that video. I guess she's dating a cis woman anyway though.

    I've heard transitioning MTF makes you more into guys... that might be why being a lesbian as MTF is a bit more of a rarity.
    I think that only happens if you were strongly into women before transistioning otherwise I've seen this pattern happen before also with non-binary amab people after they transistion if they date guys before. That's just anecdotes though. But I imagine in some cases estrogen increases sexual fluidity.

    Oh lol I watched that show Genderquake years ago and didn't recognise her from that (don't really remember what anyone on that show looks like now really though.) The main thing I remember is there was a stealth trans guy who went on the show and didn't want anyone to know he was trans but of course someone on the show figured it out (I mean he passed but just by being on the show people were going to wonder,) and then this woman on the show became attracted to him and found out and was bothered about that I think? Not cool that people outed him but I do wonder why would you go on the show if you're trying to be stealth in the first place lol? That made no sense to me.



    Waait. Is she the woman who was like making out with another woman on the show and in this video is saying 'that experience turned me into a lesbian' LOL how is that super straight. Oh my god. She said in her YouTube video that she was saying on the show she wanted a husband and a dog etc but now didn't want any of that besides maybe the dog. But even on the show she was making out with a woman lol. If that's her.

    I have this vague memory of her kissing Howie in a hot tub which my brain has probably invented. But it seems there was a part where people were in a hot tub and obviously at some point they kiss.

    Quoting from the documentary.

    "Over the last few days Howie and Campbell have spent much of their time together. She has changed my perception like I wouldn't say I'm bisexual, wouldn't say I'm a lesbian. I'd say I'm straight. Considering I used to be male and hearing that a lesbian fancies me it's weird isn't it?"

    "I do find her attractive, I think she's very pretty. Before I had my operation I'd never even want to experiment that way because I'd feel really masculine."

    It's sounding very straight. Yeah I remember this now lol. I remember thinking yeah you're not straight lol.

    Then they're playing truth or date and she uses her dare to get another woman whose name I forget to kiss Howie hahahahha 24 minutes in:



    Maybe that's what I'm thinking of? But she was definitely talking about Howie in that other clip so something else must have happened. I'm not watching the whole thing again lol to find it plus that's the only episode that's up on YouTube anyway.

    Some of these people on twitter are actually on drugs too and like tweeting while on drugs which isn't going to help. I mean they admit to that lol.

    I don't do drugs because I'm naturally insane. Lol:

    "I don't do drugs, I am drugs." Salvador Dali

    LOL while googling that quote the top result was:

    'NHS Drug addiction: getting help'

    [BEEP] off lol. It's literally in the quote.

    I did drink socially while at uni and don't now. For me it was more fun with other people around. And at the same time not fun potentially because when I used to drink I'd get bored and my tolerance for boredom decreased or I guess I became more vocal about that because I would say it's low anyway. So I'd just nag people to do stuff or go to some club I liked while I was at a house party. I can be like that sober with people I'm comfortable with sometimes. 'Let's go on an adventure in the middle of the night on News Years Eve to find vending machines.' This was actually something I proposed to my brother sans alcohol and he was like 'no there's going to be drunk people everywhere and why are you asking at twenty minutes to midnight?' I'm a very annoying person.

    Also all of this also reminds me of this in the opposite direction:

    oh [BEEP] i just remembered Hard Candy. Elliott really ate that
    "Elliot hasn't explicitly said they're masc"

    I understand this is a special win for the trans people using he/him pronouns but I CANNOT overemphasize how important Elliot's performance in Hard Candy was for me as a closeted she/her teenager. (I will not explain this.)
    It shouldn't be seen as a 'win' in the first place though. I think you can temper this or divert it to something else possibly (music stan culture vs sports teams vs literal nationalism vs gender vs sexuality vs religion, vs all the religious denominations of Christianity alone, vs websites - 4chan vs tumblr etc,) but I also think the total removal is a bit idealistic because you're working against how the Human mind works. Nobody's figured out what to do about that so I'm not going to lol.

    I liked the concept of Hard Candy though unsurprisingly and for obvious reasons given *gestures at post*
    The impulse is pure
    Sometimes our circuits get shorted
    By external interference

    Signals get crossed
    And the balance distorted
    By internal incoherence

    A tired mind become a shape-shifter
    Everybody need a mood lifter
    Everybody need reverse polarity

    Everybody got mixed feelings
    About the function and the form
    Everybody got to deviate
    From the norm

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