# Outside the Box > Philosophy and Debate >  >  Pro-life or Pro Choice

## whiteman

Are you pro-life, pro choice, or you don't care?

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## stargirl

I'm pro-choice. I believe women should have a right to decide what they want to do with their bodies

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## Trendsetter

Pro choice

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## Koalafan

Pro-Choice definitely.

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## Otherside

Pro choice.

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## Member11

I don't have the required equipment and even if I had an opinion I can't force my views onto someone else, how rude and disrespectful would that be.

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## L

People should have choice

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## IllusionOfHappiness

Pro-choice

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## Total Eclipse

I don't pass judgment on the people who "pro-choice", however I couldn't have an abortion.

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## Tinkerbell

I would be considered pro-choice simply because I don't think the 'state' has the right to tell me what or what not I can do to my body.  I don't like the fact that the father has no consideration in the matter, I don't like some of the reasons that people have an abortion - most birth control is fool proof - use it. I believe that parameters need to be placed on abortions.  And even given all that I couldn't conceive of having an abortion - rape, maybe.

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## whiteman

I was pro-choice for years...I mean years, but I just very recently changed my mind. I was thinking about a particular group. I was once a part of this group until I learned what they're actually about. Nearly everyone in this group is pro-choice. It's almost like it's mandatory to be pro-choice if you are a member of this particular group, but I had an epiphany. This groups belief that they are more important than un-born children and it's therefore, ok to kill un-born children is one of the most damning pieces of evidence about what this group is really about.

I am not sure about most things. I see shades of gray in nearly everything, but there is one thing I'm sure of: it's that killing children is wrong. It's always wrong, regardless of anything. I also believe that it's wrong that over 40,000 children have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. So I'm not a republican toeing the party line. I'm not even a christian fundamentalist. I'm not even a Christian. I just believe killing children is wrong. It's always wrong, regardless of anything. 
I don't know why I was pro-choice for so many years. I think it's because I believe in gender equality, and I thought the right to chose was part of gender equality, and my views have always been very liberal until very recently, not that I'm a republican now either. I simply believe killing children is wrong. It's always wrong, regardless of anything, and changing my mind that abortion is wrong is consistent with this belief.

Pro-life

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## peace

I'm pro-death.

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## Otherside

I don't know if I could have an abortion or not. Is it murder? I don't know. When does an embryo become a person? Would it be within the three days that I could take the morning-after pill? Would I be killing a child if I was to use that? Because that, if it came to that, I can't see myself having any problem with using that. And even if when the embryo was killed it wasn't a person...am I okay with ending the life of something that has the potential to be a person? That's the thing. Even if it's not a life at the time it's aborted, it still has the potential to be one. And the more human it looks, the further into the pregnancy I'd be...the less likely I'd be able to abort the child. I do get that there's some situations when you wouldn't want to keep a child...if youd be raped. Would I want the child of a rapist? No, I wouldn't. But is it the fault of somebody who didn't even exist at the time the rape happened? I don't know, it's too confusing for me. And I know theres people who'd abort a child if they had some sort of disability...but then I look at a younger cousin of mine, Freya, diagnosed with Downs Syndrome...and her parents wouldn't stop her existance if they were able to go back in time and change things. My younger sister came up positive on one of the tests for Downs Syndrome. She doesn't have it. These things can be wrong. They can be so so wrong.

But I just don't agree with forcing my opinions on people, or forcing people to keep a child. I don't think I'd ever be able to abort a child. The most I'd be able to do is to take the morning after pill if it came to it. But then again, it's hardly a definitely pregnant scenario when you take it. Three days isn't enough to tell. You could be pregnant or you might not be. 

I don't know where I stand. I just don't think I'd ever be able to get rid of something that has the potential to live life, to have the same shot at existing as I do and we do in this world, to mess with nature in that way. I don't go for the whole "playing god" thing and I'm for IVF or embryonic research, so I don't know, really...

This is where I can't work it out and this post has turned into a brain dump. I'm for embryonic research. It can save lives. With it we could organs that are a perfect genetic match for a transplant patient and therefore have no, or effectively very little, chance of rejection. It would cut down the long, long waiting lists that there currently are for transplants. But killing something that has a unique genotype? I'd struggle with that.





> I'm pro-death.



Everything allright?

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## meeps

Absolutely pro-choice. Banning abortion is dangerous.

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## meeps

> This groups belief that they are more important than un-born children and it's therefore, ok to kill un-born children is one of the most damning pieces of evidence about *what this group is really about*.



 uh-huh, and what is that, may I ask?





> I am not sure about most things. I see shades of gray in nearly everything, but there is one thing I'm sure of: it's that killing children is wrong. It's always wrong, regardless of anything



 Black and white thinking like this is dangerous. It is disgusting to force a woman who was raped to go through with the pregnancy. No one has the right to govern another person's body like that. (also I wouldn't consider an embryo in certain stages of it's growth a "child")

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## meeps

> I don't like the fact that the father has no consideration in the matter



 It is not his body, therefore the decision is up to her in the end. Though most responsible couples, I assume, would have talked about their thoughts on abortion before getting to this point.

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## Tinkerbell

> It is not his body, therefore the decision is up to her in the end. Though most responsible couples, I assume, would have talked about their thoughts on abortion before getting to this point.



  You're right, that's why I told my son as he was growing up and making decisions about sex, never leave birth control solely up to the girl, it takes two to make a baby.  Responsible is the operative word and unfortunately all too often that doesn't come into play.

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## compulsive

edit: 

prochoice

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## Dust_in_the_wind

> I would be considered pro-choice simply because I don't think the 'state' has the right to tell me what or what not I can do to my body.  I don't like the fact that the father has no consideration in the matter, I don't like some of the reasons that people have an abortion - most birth control is fool proof - use it. I believe that parameters need to be placed on abortions.  And even given all that I couldn't conceive of having an abortion - rape, maybe.



I agree with your post. My ex had a very late term abortion she was able to get and I had no say in the matter. I was divested she killed our child.

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## Tinkerbell

> I agree with your post. My ex had a very late term abortion she was able to get and I had no say in the matter. I was divested she killed our child.



I'm sorry that that had happened to you.  There is also a flip side to that coin, my son's friend got a girl pregnant, he didn't want to keep the child, she did - bottom line is that he is paying child support until she is 18.  I feel that it should be legal that either parent can sever parental rights and let the parent who wants the child have custody.   It is a very convoluted issue and there are not easy answers.

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## whiteman

> I'm sorry that that had happened to you.  There is also a flip side to that coin, my son's friend got a girl pregnant, he didn't want to keep the child, she did - bottom line is that he is paying child support until she is 18.  I feel that it should be legal that either parent can sever parental rights and let the parent who wants the child have custody.   It is a very convoluted issue and there are not easy answers.



My ex-girlfriend told me she thought about trying to get pregnant,( she was on birth control),
 but she changed her mind when my dad said he would not help us if she did. What I'm saying is you can think you've both made the choice not to have children, and your girlfriend can change her mind, not tell you, stop taking her birth control, and there is nothing you can do about it. You're still obligated to pay child support. 

Even though she was on birth control, I still used a condom most of the time. Sex feels a lot better without a condom, but it's just not worth it if you don't want to have a child. If you don't want to have a child, always use a condom, always.

Masturbation and abstinence get a bad rap, but if you don't want to have children, I can't think of anything more noble than choosing not to have sex. On another website(know which one I'm talking about?) a favorite insult of a particular group, a group that is exclusively pro-choice, is you never get laid, but if you don't want children I can't think of a better compliment.  :thanks:

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## whiteman

> uh-huh, and what is that, may I ask?



The Free Masons, The Illuminati, and quite possibly the Ananoki.

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## Brasilia

Pro-choice bby

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## fordgurl_87

Pro-life....  in my opinion, as soon as it's conceived,  the baby is human.  I used to not know what I believed, but seeing my nieces and nephew grow up has made my perspective.  I mean if you think about it, all of us and the people that we love started the same, and I'm glad for all of the people I have in my life and am very glad their parents didn't abort them...  but at the same time, everyone has opinions and I don't hold it against anyone that disagrees with me.  I don't look at it as a debate, but rather agree to disagree.

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## AllToAll

I hate these terms given as they're so misleading and ambiguous, but by definition I'm pro-choice.

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## Skippy

Ether way I dun care much, but the way I see it? If you don't want the kid, why not have the baby and give the child to a family that cannot have children, like me, for example? There are people out there that can't even have children and would be loving families to such. Then everyone's happy because they dont have to have a child they dont want, AND, someone else gets to have a child they cant create!

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## metamorphosis

> Ether way I dun care much, but the way I see it? If you don't want the kid, why not have the baby and give the child to a family that cannot have children, like me, for example? There are people out there that can't even have children and would be loving families to such. Then everyone's happy because they dont have to have a child they dont want, AND, someone else gets to have a child they cant create!



Agreed, thank you for summing that up!
But I am still pro choice in instances of rape, incest, inbreeding etc.

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## meeps

Adoption isn't that easy.

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## meeps

And I kind of doubt there would be enough people wanting to adopt versus number of kids if abortion was no longer an option.

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## WineKitty

I refuse to vote with such limited options.  I won't be pinned down as "pro-choice" because I am not "FOR" abortions (and really is anyone?).  But I won't be labeled a "Pro-Life" either.  I don't think they should be illegal and forced into an underground black market.  I do support free birth control and sterilizations for those wanting it.  The attack on Planned Parenthood not all that long ago by the right was ridiculous as they provide so many other services, including low cost to free birth control, the number one way to PREVENT abortions.  I think if people are truly concerned about lowering the abortion rate then perhaps supporting programs that have education, free birth control and such is a better approach then making it illegal.  Making something illegal never works.  It's been proven over and over and over.  If a woman opts to have an abortion, she should have proper medical care and a private matter between her and her physician.  This mandatory sonogram crap some states are coming up with is just stupid.

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## compulsive

> And I kind of doubt there would be enough people wanting to adopt versus number of kids if abortion was no longer an option.



Yeah most seem to want their own kids related by blood rather than adopting.

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## compulsive

> I refuse to vote with such limited options.  I won't be pinned down as "pro-choice" because I am not "FOR" abortions (and really is anyone?).  But I won't be labeled a "Pro-Life" either.  I don't think they should be illegal and forced into an underground black market.  I do support free birth control and sterilizations for those wanting it.  The attack on Planned Parenthood not all that long ago by the right was ridiculous as they provide so many other services, including low cost to free birth control, the number one way to PREVENT abortions.  I think if people are truly concerned about lowering the abortion rate then perhaps supporting programs that have education, free birth control and such is a better approach then making it illegal.  Making something illegal never works.  It's been proven over and over and over.  If a woman opts to have an abortion, she should have proper medical care and a private matter between her and her physician.  This mandatory sonogram crap some states are coming up with is just stupid.



Yeah pretty much. I cant understand the fight against birth control in some places.

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## Brad

> I refuse to vote with such limited options.  I won't be pinned down as "pro-choice" because I am not "FOR" abortions (and really is anyone?).  But I won't be labeled a "Pro-Life" either.  I don't think they should be illegal and forced into an underground black market.  I do support free birth control and sterilizations for those wanting it.  The attack on Planned Parenthood not all that long ago by the right was ridiculous as they provide so many other services, including low cost to free birth control, the number one way to PREVENT abortions.  I think if people are truly concerned about lowering the abortion rate then perhaps supporting programs that have education, free birth control and such is a better approach then making it illegal.  Making something illegal never works.  It's been proven over and over and over.  If a woman opts to have an abortion, she should have proper medical care and a private matter between her and her physician.  This mandatory sonogram crap some states are coming up with is just stupid.



I agree with this but would still classify myself as pro-choice. I support there being an option for women to have an abortion if she ever needed to make that decision. I don't think anyone classifies abortions as a positive thing, and the idea that women are just casually getting abortions like it's no big deal is a ridiculous falsehood made by the right. I know in alot of cases it's emotionally traumatizing for women to get one.

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## Natey

110% pro life.  I think that ever since Roe v Wade there has been a holocaust in America called abortion.   That baby has the right to life just as much as the mother.  If you don't want the baby, use contraception or do not have sex.   The baby should not have to pay with its life for the mothers convenience.  So when does a life become a life? You could play this game all day.  Simply when a human has unique human DNA never to be again replicated, aka conception.  I often pray for the Planned Parenthood here in Sioux Falls every time I drive by it. (It is located right next to a high school).    Also looking at Planned Parenthoods history... It was corrupt back then and is corrupt now.   Its sickening that my tax dollars go to these gas chambers.

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## life

> I'm pro-choice. I believe women should have a right to decide what they want to do with their bodies



 i agree 100%

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## life

> So when does a life become a life?.



 when the baby can survive independently  (without medical intervention) it's harsh, but its the truth

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## Natey

> when the baby can survive independently  (without medical intervention) it's harsh, but its the truth



1st off, who gets to make that determination of when life begins?  Are you arbiter of life?  Second, A baby can't survive outside the womb either.  It needs a mother.   Also, I was born 2 months prematurely didn't know if I was going to be viable or not... So would you consider me a life right before I was born?

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## life

> 1st off, who gets to make that determination of when life begins?  Are you arbiter of life?  Second, A baby can't survive outside the womb either.  It needs a mother.   Also, I was born 2 months prematurely didn't know if I was going to be viable or not... So would you consider me a life right before I was born?



 no, but if you could survive independently from your mother (without medical intervention) yes i would, if you can respire, a baby does not need a mother once born eg another woman can breast feed or anyone can use artificial milk

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## Otherside

Ahhh, I have no idea what constitutes a life. At conception? But that doesn't always happen naturally these days. Is an embryo made in a petri dish and combined with an electric shock a life? My gut instinct is no. But...I don't know. I don't know where I stand on the whole "do we have a soul" and "when does the baby get a soul" thing. 

At the moment I'm leaning towards when the brain begins to function and nerves begin to signal. 

Is it right to kill something that has the potential to become life though? 

No godamn idea. And it's too late for me to be thinking about indepth topics.

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## Natey

I see what you are saying now, it is not a bad argument, but the fact remains you just do not know when that point is.. When is that second when they become a human being?  I mean you can mess up with this stuff because life is the most precious thing we have in this world.

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## life

> I see what you are saying now, it is not a bad argument, but the fact remains you just do not know when that point is.. When is that second when they become a human being?  I mean you can mess up with this stuff because life is the most precious thing we have in this world.



imho the second a fetus becomes a viable human being is when it can survive independently outside of the mother (without medical intervention), it is easy to prove, just remove the baby from the mother and see if it survives (im not advocating removing a baby from it's mother, just stated as a way to demonstrate the moment a fetus becomes human)

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## foe

I might be one of the very few Liberals(moderate) who's pro-life.

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## VickieKitties

> I'm pro-death.



I've often wished I'd been aborted.

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## life

> I've often wished I'd been aborted.



  :Hug:

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## Otherside

> I see what you are saying now, it is not a bad argument, but the fact remains you just do not know when that point is.. When is that second when they become a human being?  I mean you can mess up with this stuff because life is the most precious thing we have in this world.



To be honest, I don't like thinking that's there one second after which a life is a life, and that it would be okay to abort a foetus before that one second. I suppose the fact that a fertilized egg has the potential to become life is enough for me, really. The mother doesn't always give birth after conception. She could have a miscarriage. But then that's nature and not humans deciding that the child should not be born. 

A while back I would have been Pro-life. Now...I don't know where I stand, but I don't like the idea of people aborting children due to the fact that it's inconvienient at the time for them to give birth. 

Honestly? I hope I'm never in the position where I have to make a decision like this. I can't imagine I'd be able to go through with aborting a child. I'd be more likely to put him/her up for adoption if there was no way I could care for it myself.

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## Ironman

> I don't have the required equipment and even if I had an opinion I can't force my views onto someone else, how rude and disrespectful would that be.



I don't either, but I do know that I won't just use it on anyone, so pro-life for me!
I see babies and am glad their moms said NO to abortion.

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## Natey

> To be honest, I don't like thinking that's there one second after which a life is a life, and that it would be okay to abort a foetus before that one second. I suppose the fact that a fertilized egg has the potential to become life is enough for me, really. The mother doesn't always give birth after conception. She could have a miscarriage. But then that's nature and not humans deciding that the child should not be born. 
> 
> A while back I would have been Pro-life. Now...I don't know where I stand, but I don't like the idea of people aborting children due to the fact that it's inconvienient at the time for them to give birth. 
> 
> Honestly? I hope I'm never in the position where I have to make a decision like this. I can't imagine I'd be able to go through with aborting a child. I'd be more likely to put him/her up for adoption if there was no way I could care for it myself.



I appreciate the honesty here!  You are definitely right in your assumptions, so you are on the right track, and I understand the fact that the mother has to share her body with the infant makes it a sticky situation.  But, I believe God wanted to give the honor to women to birth and raise the next generation or humans, what is more honorable and important then that?    I like to use a hunting analogy.   If you are hunting deer and you see something out of the corner of your eye, you don't shoot right away.  Why is this?  Because it COULD be a life... I think the same precaution should be taken with the unborn, just given the chance they COULD be life, I wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of that coin...  Just a thought for you to chew on though.   I know its about as likely to change someones beliefs as it is to win the lottery, but I just want to make a case maybe you have not heard before.

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## Hadron

I don't really have an opinion on this. Although I lean towards being against it.

Firstly, how do you define what constitutes a human being? Is it a biological creature with human DNA who can think? If that is so, then newborn babies are not human and could be "aborted".

Or perhaps a human being is a post blastocyst embryo that developed a spine and a brain of sorts and resembles a baby. But that definition is also pretty vague as I can't figure out the cognitive differences between a blastocyst and a newborn baby.

Either way, I know that abortions are seen as necessary in cases of handicapped embryos, teenage pregnancies and rape cases. But I still can't quite figure out how an abortion is more morally right than killing a newborn baby. I get the feeling that a lot of people are pro-choice because it's more convenient for them. Everyone in this world is pretty selfish.

I'm not religious or anything, so I'm totally unbiased.

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## WintersTale

I'm pro-choice.

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## WineKitty

Holy crap this has been up for a while.  Forgot almost that I didn't vote until I saw my own post....

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## meeps

> I get the feeling that a lot of people are pro-choice because it's more convenient for them. Everyone in this world is pretty selfish.



Yeah it probably is more* convenient* for a poor woman to abort than to raise a kid she can't even provide for.

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