# Outside the Box > Philosophy and Debate >  >  Rape in modern society

## WintersTale

Just this week, I've seen two stories in the news...one about a group of men who gangraped a girl in India, and another about the Stubenville rapists (those two teens that raped that drunk underaged girl.)  So, what is your opinion on these crimes? Do you feel that the Stubenville rapists got off lightly, or too harshly?

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## Chopin12

its a real problem, especially in this day and age. nowadays you can even get raped with a penis. it wasnt like that when i was growing up.

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## Coffee

I haven't read extensively about the rape in Steuebenville but it's always more complicated when it comes to teenage offenders. I think their punishment was relatively light but it can still be extended if they haven't shown improvement in their behaviour and haven't been rehabilitated adequately. Of course this brings up other issues within the criminal justice system of whether rehabilitation is emphasised enough. I'm not exactly sure why their names were released (aren't they still juveniles?) but their football careers have been effectively destroyed so that's something. I'm concerned that her peers didn't bother taking it seriously and just circulated photos and everything.

I am _guessing_ (I haven't looked the stats up) that the rates of rape are relatively stable and have been throughout the years, but now it is getting more publicity. After the gang rape in Delhi a while back (not the most recent one) it seems as though the reports of rape have increased substantially. I think that's more of a good thing than a bad thing. It might make more female AND male victims more comfortable in speaking out and getting help. Hopefully it will decrease victim blaming and shaming and educate wider audiences on the ignorance of statements such as "s/he was asking for it".

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## WintersTale

What bothers me (and I agree with you, Coffee) is that CNN, MSNBC, and Fox were all sympathetic towards the rapists. Like they actually didn't commit a crime.

I'm sorry, but if you force yourself on someone who is passed out, and can't give consent, you are a rapist. If you argue that you aren't, you are a sexist pig.

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## Coffee

> What bothers me (and I agree with you, Coffee) is that CNN, MSNBC, and Fox were all sympathetic towards the rapists. Like they actually didn't commit a crime.
> 
> I'm sorry, but if you force yourself on someone who is passed out, and can't give consent, you are a rapist. If you argue that you aren't, you are a sexist pig.



I just edited my post a little bit to add in the coverage of rapes on the news. I think this one (the Steubenville one) is seen as 'different' because it was digital penetration instead of penile-vaginal penetration (I think? but something I read said there was actual penetration too - I'm not sure), but rape is rape. Forced digital penetration is still rape. It should be taken more seriously.

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## WintersTale

What is digital penetration?

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## Coffee

> What is digital penetration?



basically vaginal fingering

I dont know if that was the full extent of the crime though because a news source I read said something about penile-vaginal penetration too. Either way it's horrible and still serious.

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## WintersTale

One news source I read said that one rapist tried to force his penis into her mouth, but it kept on slipping out.

It's just sick what they did, and I don't understand it. As a man, I don't understand it.

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## Monotony

> basically vaginal fingering
> 
> I dont know if that was the full extent of the crime though because a news source I read said something about penile-vaginal penetration too. Either way it's horrible and still serious.



If you watch the video that anonymous leaked of them talking and laughing about it later they clearly said something about sticking a stick in her rear as well. That and apparently they showed a picture with semen on her stomach in court. Either way they covered it up at the start and then let them off with a slap on the wrist when they even recorded them selves talking and laughing about it afterwards  so why should anyone believe anything they have to say.

 Rape should be a death sentence along with murder at the very least chop their cock and balls off so that every one knows their a rapist.

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## WintersTale

> Rape should be a death sentence along with murder at the very least chop  their cock and balls off so that every one knows their a rapist.



I agree with this.

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## Trendsetter

I seen both of these crimes on the news, and I am disappointed that those reporters showed sympathy towards the offenders. I think the Studenville rapists' punishments weren't harsh enough.





> Rape should be a death sentence along with murder at the very least chop their cock and balls off so that every one knows their a rapist.



I know rape is horrible, physically and psychologically, but that's probably going too far. Here in USA, I believe that is unconstitutional, anyway.

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## Otherside

> Rape should be a death sentence along with murder at the very least chop their cock and balls off so that every one knows their a rapist.



I think they were planning on doing something like that in India at one point after the girl was raped on the bus over there.

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## T-Bone

Well this topic came up on a similar forum ::cough::. There were a bunch of complete imbeciles saying "just shoot em", thinking of ways to torture them, suggesting life in prison etc. I was called a sociopath, and told i lacked empathy for not jumping on this bandwagon. Quite frankly, if one agrees any of those are appropriate punishments, you're a psychopath. Then again there's a possibility you're just extremely naive. 

Teenagers/adolescents are fully aware of their actions, sure. But they are still at an impressionable age and i believe they can be rehabilitated. I also believe the sentence they received was light, but execution, mutilation, and life in prison? Get real ya know. Lock em up for about 5 years in an institution with some good programs they can use to learn about human emotion and consequences, get an education etc. Have some other rape victims come in a tell their stories about how the event has effected their lives and whatnot. Might sound like corny method to you guys but like i said, they're still at an impressionable age.

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## Coffee

> Well this topic came up on a similar forum ::cough::. There were a bunch of complete imbeciles saying "just shoot em", thinking of ways to torture them, suggesting life in prison etc. I was called a sociopath, and told i lacked empathy for not jumping on this bandwagon. Quite frankly, if one agrees any of those are appropriate punishments, you're a psychopath. Then again there's a possibility you're just extremely stupid and naive. 
> 
> Teenagers/adolescents are fully aware of their actions, sure. But they are still at an impressionable age and i believe they can be rehabilitated. I also believe the sentence they received was light, but execution, mutilation, and life in prison? Get real ya know. Lock em up for about 5 years in an institution with some good programs they can use to learn about human emotion and consequences, get an education etc. Have some other rape victims come in a tell their stories about how the event has effected their lives and whatnot. Might sound like corny method to you guys but like i said, they're still at an impressionable age.



I agree here. They're still young and can probably be rehabilitated.





> If you watch the video that anonymous leaked of them talking and laughing about it later they clearly said something about sticking a stick in her rear as well. That and apparently they showed a picture with semen on her stomach in court. Either way they covered it up at the start and then let them off with a slap on the wrist when they even recorded them selves talking and laughing about it afterwards  so why should anyone believe anything they have to say.
> 
>  Rape should be a death sentence along with murder at the very least chop their cock and balls off so that every one knows their a rapist.



That's horrible. In this case, their sentences should be increased. Not death though. Or chopping off their dick. But longer jail time.

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## Monotony

> I agree here. They're still young and can probably be rehabilitated.
> 
> 
> 
> That's horrible. In this case, their sentences should be increased. Not death though. Or chopping off their dick. But longer jail time.



I'm still for cutting off their Dick they aren't worthy enough to own a Penis.

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## whiteman

I think what they did is terrible, but I don't think they got off as lightly as everyone thinks. They're going to be required to live with the stigma of being a registered sex offendar for the rest of their lives. In my state, a vigilante recently killed a sex offendar who's offence was having a mutual sexual relationship with a freshman when he was a senior.


Anyways I wasn't going to post in these kinds of threads because I don't want this site to become like the other site where people without SA or any other mental illness to speak of are pushing their hate filled agendas that have nothing to do with SA. If this site becomes like that site I'm going to leave.

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## Coffee

^ they completely deserve to live with that stigma, though. That's just baseline, it's not even really punishment. it's just taking a basic amount of responsibility for your actions.

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## whiteman

I really hope this site doesn't become like the other site where people who don't have SA use the SA site to push their hate-filled agenda

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## Otherside

> I really hope this site doesn't become like the other site where people who don't have SA use the SA site to push their hate-filled agenda



I saw the other thread on a certain other forum, it was kinda different from here. Nobodies calling each other, as Goathorned said, "sociopaths". And to be honest, I think a lot of us here are here because we were getting fed up with the free-for-all attitude of a certain section of a certain forum (and just the whole whole place in general). I don't really think there's really enough of us.

India said something at one point about planning to castrate rapists in response to the protests. It seems to much of a medical punishment really though. Looking into it, South Korea seems to have ordered the castration of a 31 year old paedophile, on he grounds that he was unable to control his sexual urges (not "cutting of his dick though). California seems to use chemical castration as a punishment for paedophile as well.

Theres a couple of things on offenders who have willingly taken the drug and gone through therapy. I can't find anything on castration actually being used on people who rape adults or anywhere where that's legal though

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## T-Bone

> I saw the other thread on a certain other forum, it was kinda different from here. Nobodies calling each other, as Goathorned said, "sociopaths".



Those posts were deleted. There is some moderation over there contrary to popular belief.

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## Otherside

> Those posts were deleted. There is some moderation over there contrary to popular belief.



I do know that.

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## Harpuia

Thankful that rape crimes are actually being taken more seriously now and being more carefully investigated.  And yeah, just being on that sex offender list is like a scarlet letter you wear for as long as you're on it.

As far as the other forum goes, they can shove it for all I care.

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## takethebiscuit

Rape, as a crime, is horrific. 

Defense lawyers, however, have learned to frame rapes in certain ways to encourage the thinking that someone who is raped somehow deserves it or brought it upon themselves. Was she drunk? Was she wearing skimpy clothing on the night of the assault? Was she walking home alone in a dodgy neighbourhood?

As has been mentioned on discussions about the death penalty, it's hard to judge how to deal with these criminals in the most effective way. I'm against the death penalty but there are some truly vile people in the world. One the one hand, America has most likely executed innocent people (as have other countries with the death penalty), some of the vilest people on the planet have also been executed and I'm not shedding tears for them in a hurry.

See how this gets complicated?

Now, should rapists be killed? No. We need to have tougher punishments in place, rehabilitation programs of some kind where they work, we need to give more support to the victims and combat the idea that someone who is abused and or raped somehow brought it upon themselves.

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## WintersTale

> I really hope this site doesn't become like the other site where people who don't have SA use the SA site to push their hate-filled agenda



You need to stop obsessing about that other site. Every single post on here from you is about there. It really is unhealthy, and I'm tired of talking about it.

I don't know what that has to do with the topic I started?

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## whiteman

> You need to stop obsessing about that other site. Every single post on here from you is about there. It really is unhealthy, and I'm tired of talking about it.
> 
> I don't know what that has to do with the topic I started?



Not every post, but a lot of them-lol, and I agree I need to stop obsessing over that site. It's just that on that other, site and I'll try not to mention it again after this post because I agree with you, "it isn't healthy," I was blamed for every negative thing that has happened in the world because of my race and gender, and it was OK because it's politically correct, even though I've never oppressed anyone and I've never benefitted from white male priviledge or "patriarchy" I worked for two years doing hard labor to earn scholarships to pay for my first two years of school and I worked nearly every quarter there after to pay for school. I worked so hard I herniated a disk and I'm in pain everyday and I will be for the rest of my life. 
I'm not going to apologize to anyone for my race or gender. I'm not going to apologize to anyone for what someone that happens to be my race or gender has done in recent history or what someone that's my race or gender did before I was born. Just because some white males did something horrible doesn't mean I'm like them, and I'm responsible for there actions.
I'm, "obsessed" with that other site because someone who doesn't have SA, attacked my SA and basically said none of my opinions matter because I'm mentally ill, but she was able to get away with it because I'm the "wrong" gender, but I guess that site is a reflection of society in general, so I just have to deal with it because that's the way it is even though I believe everyone should be treated as equally as possible regardless of their race or gender. That site is fucked up, and the worlds fucked up. That's just the way it is.

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## WintersTale

Back on topic....

I think most people would have a strong reaction to rapists. Anything that is against consent is pretty sick...and that 16 year old couldn't give consent, because she was underage.

I don't know, I start to feel that these rapists could be rehabilitated, and then I start to watch that video. Yes, it's out there. It's a product of sick minds, and the fact that these guys walked the streets really turns my stomach.

It's the fault of the parents here, too. Someone raised these two boys to not respect women. What makes it even worse are the number of people who took videos with their cameras and did nothing to help her.

It's overall really sickening. If I saw someone being sexually molested, I would try to help them. I wouldn't just stand around.

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## whiteman

> Back on topic....
> 
> I think most people would have a strong reaction to rapists. Anything that is against consent is pretty sick...and *that 16 year old couldn't give consent, because she was underage.
> *
> I don't know, I start to feel that these rapists could be rehabilitated, and then I start to watch that video. Yes, it's out there. It's a product of sick minds, and the fact that these guys walked the streets really turns my stomach.
> 
> It's the fault of the parents here, too. Someone raised these two boys to not respect women. What makes it even worse are the number of people who took videos with their cameras and did nothing to help her.
> 
> It's overall really sickening. If I saw someone being sexually molested, I would try to help them. I wouldn't just stand around.



I don't know much about the story, but I thought everyone involved were teenagers and the reason she was raped was because she couldn't give consent because she was passed out, not that she was a minor???

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## whiteman

> Back on topic....
> 
> I think most people would have a strong reaction to rapists. Anything that is against consent is pretty sick...and that* 16 year old* couldn't give consent, because she was underage.
> 
> I don't know, I start to feel that these rapists could be rehabilitated, and *then I start to watch that video*. Yes, it's out there. It's a product of sick minds, and the fact that these guys walked the streets really turns my stomach.
> 
> It's the fault of the parents here, too. Someone raised these two boys to not respect women. What makes it even worse are the number of people who took videos with their cameras and did nothing to help her.
> 
> It's overall really sickening. If I saw someone being sexually molested, I would try to help them. I wouldn't just stand around.



I wouldn't watch that video. It doesn't matter to the justice system why you watched the video. The FBI plants illegal links and has arrested people and charged them with cp for just clicking on links they planted when there was nothing on the links and they had nothing else illegal. It doesn't matter to the government why you watched the video. All that matters is you watched, it and you knew she was a minor.

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## WintersTale

> I wouldn't watch that video. It doesn't matter to the justice system why you watched the video. The FBI plants illegal links and has arrested people and charged them with cp for just clicking on links they planted when there was nothing on the links and they had nothing else illegal. It doesn't matter to the government why you watched the video. All that matters is you watched, it and you knew she was a minor.



She wasn't in the video. It was just the guys talking, and it was posted on the Huffington Post site. 

If anybody should be arrested, it should be the news media for posting that. All I did was stream it from their server.

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## Ironman

> What bothers me (and I agree with you, Coffee) is that CNN, MSNBC, and Fox were all sympathetic towards the rapists. Like they actually didn't commit a crime.
> 
> I'm sorry, but if you force yourself on someone who is passed out, and can't give consent, you are a rapist. If you argue that you aren't, you are a sexist pig.



FoxNews was not sympathetic towards the two men.  I guess they are convicted rapists now.  

They are going after Jodi Arias anyway.  Now THERE'S a Fruit Loop.

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## WintersTale

> FoxNews was not sympathetic towards the two men.  I guess they are convicted rapists now.  
> 
> They are going after Jodi Arias anyway.  Now THERE'S a Fruit Loop.



Yes, Jodi Arias is even scarier than that.

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## whiteman

Who's that

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## WintersTale

> Who's that



Google her.

But here's a short definition. She is a 31 year old murderer who killed her boyfriend by shooting him, strangling him, gutting him, and slitting his throat (awful what she did to him.) She has given three different "stories" as to why she has done this, all of them contradicting each other. She also shows no remorse in court, and seems to be a sociopath. 

She has been in the news recently, the most famous (or infamous) female murderer since Casey Anthony (and there is strong evidence that she, indeed, did the crime. She faces the death penalty if convicted.)

And, of course, she is attractive, so once again a hot female murderer makes the news...

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## sanspants

> I don't know, I start to feel that these rapists could be rehabilitated, and then I start to watch that video. Yes, it's out there. It's a product of sick minds, and the fact that these guys walked the streets really turns my stomach.
> 
> It's the fault of the parents here, too. Someone raised these two boys to not respect women. What makes it even worse are the number of people who took videos with their cameras and did nothing to help her.
> 
> It's overall really sickening. If I saw someone being sexually molested, I would try to help them. I wouldn't just stand around.



Yeah, likewise. There's a lot of sociopathology there. From working in mental health for eleventeen years I've learned that rehabilitating rapists is only possible if their level of functioning was too low for them to understand what they were doing at the time. Your average fifteen-year-old gets it. Completely. If he willfully violates someone for fun, then laughs about it after hearing of her pain and so on, he's not going to "get better" in the way that we'd hope. The best we can do is modify his behavior by showing him consequences. What people fail to realize about sociopaths like rapists is that they often LOVE what they're doing. It's not a compulsion in the manner of the OCD fellow who must wash his hands 100x a day. No, chances are, the rapist loves rape because it's greatly enjoyable for him. It's a huge rush and worth the risk. 

It gives him the ultimate feeling of control. That's another craving that can't be eradicated through therapy. It just is what it is. It needs to be channeled into some other sort of activity.

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## WintersTale

Whenever I think of rapists who can't control themselves, I think of the character from American Psycho. They commit crimes, because they have a compulsion to do so.

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## whiteman

> Rape, as a crime, is horrific.
> 
> Defense lawyers, however, have learned to frame rapes in certain ways to encourage the thinking that someone who is raped somehow deserves it or brought it upon themselves. *Was she drunk? Was she wearing skimpy clothing on the night of the assault? Was she walking home alone in a dodgy neighbourhood*?
> 
> As has been mentioned on discussions about the death penalty, it's hard to judge how to deal with these criminals in the most effective way. I'm against the death penalty but there are some truly vile people in the world. One the one hand, America has most likely executed innocent people (as have other countries with the death penalty), some of the vilest people on the planet have also been executed and I'm not shedding tears for them in a hurry.
> 
> See how this gets complicated?
> 
> Now, should rapists be killed? No. We need to have tougher punishments in place, rehabilitation programs of some kind where they work, we need to give more support to the victims and combat the idea that someone who is abused and or raped somehow brought it upon themselves.



Why do you only use the pronoun, "she" aren't men also the victims of rape???

...and I do think it's interesting that this story wasn't deleted but a story about a false rape allegation where a man was the victim of a woman was deleted. I guess a story demonizing males is acceptable, but a story demonizing a woman is not acceptable on this site, right???

That's why a social anxiety site for men is necesary. Sexism is so ingrained in society today people don't even realize they're sexist. Men deserve a site where they're free to talk in an environment where there's unbiased moderation.

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## Member11

> ...a story demonizing males is acceptable, but a story demonizing a woman is not acceptable on this site, right?



No.





> Why do you only use the pronoun, "she" aren't men also the victims of rape???



If you re-read what takethebiscuit said, the pronouns "someone" and "themselves" were used which are gender-neutral, in the examples the pronoun "she" was used because those arguments are usually levelled against women, not men.

This thread is old now, so I'm going to close it.

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