# Outside the Box > Philosophy and Debate >  >  Trump

## Cuchculan

I know. This is going to be everybody's new favourite topic. Just listening to him speak to the victims and the media concerning the latest disasters to hit the US. I am sitting there thinking ' Is this guy for real or what '. There were a few deaths with what hit Florida and Texas. Trump simply talks about another time when something bigger hit and more people died. Like telling people ' This is nothing '. Back then a few thousand died. This time it was a small few. Does he even know the meaning of the word ' Sympathy '. I think what we are seeing is a person who is not a politician. Some might think that is good. You are seeing a real person. But he presents himself in such a bad way. Like he is telling people to get over it and get on with things. It is not as bad as ones that have hit in the past. Fair comment that politicians are schooled in PR work. His press secretary has it down to an art form. She was speaking of the shooting in Vegas and done so sobbing. Tears for the media. Thought she went a bit over the top with the old tears. There is a fine balance needed. She is almost there. He is nowhere near the mark at all. They should simply stop him talking to the media until they teach him how it is done. Because we are seeing the real him. Rude in how he talks. Throwing out food parcels? With a look on his face that is saying ' hey this is good fun '. If you look at previous leaders of the US in similar situations you see a different image. You hear compassion. Not like it is nothing at all. They are mingling with the people. Not keeping a distance from them. Just throwing boxes with food at them. Been a year now, has it? I am not actually counting. I wondering about his background team. It seems they have taught him nothing at all. By this stage he should be able to handle the media with respect. With compassion. And come across as a true leader. Not as an Oaf. He still looks like he doesn't fit in were he is. That it is all just some big game to him. He is having a bit of fun. Just the whole way he comes across. Somebody needs to take him aside and teach him people skills. Though I don't think he would want them. I think he wants to be different. Enjoys been smug. Enjoys the attention. Like a big kid in a school yard.

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## CloudMaker

More people die from illegal immigrants than all of the natural disasters combined...:trumps priorities lie elsewhere. 

He wants to keep us focused on the real problems facing our country. MAGA!!!

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## kevinjoseph

WTF.

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## Cuchculan

> More people die from illegal immigrants than all of the natural disasters combined...:trumps priorities lie elsewhere. 
> 
> He wants to keep us focused on the real problems facing our country. MAGA!!!



Heck that explains everything. Why he doesn't give a crap about Americans. Immigrants are more important than Disaster victims. Makes so much sense now. NOT.

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## CloudMaker

There haven’t been any other natural disasters since . . . . Part of me wonders if it’s because we finally elected a Christian president

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## JamieWAgain

OMG

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## Otherside

On a side note, this has grown popular in the UK. 

Screenshot_20180505-121428.png

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## CloudMaker

LOL I thought the UK banned trump from visiting?

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## Otherside

> LOL I thought the UK banned trump from visiting?



There was a debate in parliment to do so, that occured solely because we have a system here where if a certain number of people here sign a petition, parliment has to debate. He wasn't banned though, and to be honest, I doubt he ever would be. The Trump family has had business interests here since before he came president as well. (They owns a Golf resort in Scotland.)

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## Cuchculan

He is not wanted in this country either. But owns a golf course here too. Can't stop him visiting his own golf course. Which does have a big wall around it. This was why he fell out with the EU years before he ever became President. They tried to block him building the golf course in Ireland. The Irish were allowing him to build. The EU didn't want him to. All got to do with tax breaks that were allowed to the super rich. Trump still goes on about how the EU tried to mess things up for him in Ireland to this very day. If you ever wonder when he first fell out with the EU.

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## kevinjoseph

I can't think of any nation on Earth that would happily invite our current POTUS there without having to seriously consider it would be a bad idea.  Maybe the US, but we don't even want him here if we can help it.

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## CloudMaker

> I can't think of any nation on Earth that would happily invite our current POTUS there without having to seriously consider it would be a bad idea.  Maybe the US, but we don't even want him here if we can help it.



Speak for yourself! Trump has a 42% approval rating right now which means almost 1 in every 2 Americans likes him!

Best president since Ronald Reagan so far IMO

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## kevinjoseph

Speak for myself, CloudMaker?  I did!  I started my post with "*I* can't think of..." so I don't know why you're telling me to speak for myself!

You're right, 42 percent is almost 50 percent if you're really generous and round it up by only 8 percent!  That's nearly half of US citizens!  To be elected president you need to get at least half of the votes of people who actually go to vote on Election Day!  By that logic even people who voted for Trump dislike him now because of what he's done in office!

Ronald Reagan sucked anyway.  Iran-Contra.  While president, Reagan secretly and illegally sold US military weapons to Iran, took the profits from that and funneled them to Contra, an anti-democracy terrorist organization in Central America, which is technically treason!  A US general named Oliver North testified that Reagan did did this or at least had personally authorized it! Nothing I've said in this post is even considered controversial and is available with a simple google search! If a man who is publicly known to have committed treason against the US while president of the US is your hero, you're either uninformed, don't like the United States, a troll, or all of the above!

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## CloudMaker

I didn’t say people who voted against him like him now. I said 1 in 2 (or 1 in 3 if you want to round down) Americans like him. With how many Americans there are that is A LOT of people!

I dont really care about Central America to be honest. Reagan was good for America and the economy.

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## kevinjoseph

*CloudMaker*, it's generally a pretty good idea to put a little thought into saying something publicly that you can't really back up with any facts.  I know what you said, which was that Trump has a 42 percent approval rating right now so he's the "Best president since Ronald Reagan so far" in your opinion.  If you think I'm twisting your words in any way feel free to let me know!  I can copy and paste what you so confidently wrote if you need to read your own opinion again to fact-check yourself.  

What I'm saying is if a president having an approval rating of less than 50 percent has any indication on how good that president is at being president, even if you have to compare that president to the traitor to the US Ronald Reagan whom you love so dearly despite his actions, you're sinking really low to justify your statements. 

*Sunrise* I agree with what you've stated.  Reagan did absolutely nothing to deserve being lionized by anyone.  If anything, no "conservative" would think anything he did while president was remotely good for the country.  I guess he's been the best Republican president in recent memory, he at least paid lip service in speeches to Republican ideas, but even in terms of tax cuts to anyone he was a huge hypocrite.  No wait he wasn't even good at saying one thing and doing another, which politicians of all stripes are known for.  I can't name one concrete thing Reagan actually did that would make me consider him worthy of the office of POTUS.

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## Cuchculan

What is the idiot up to with Iran? Took people years to reach an agreement with them to do away with their nuclear programme. Now he foes and does this. My own belief is Israel. They hate Iran. Trump loves Israel. Iran once said that Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth. I can't see any other reason why he would pull out of an already agreed on deal. Then he boasts about North Korea and how he is doing so great with them? You manage to disarm one country and another starts up its nuclear programme again. That is not progress. Years ago on AZ when people were worried about another war and mentioned countries like North Korea and Russia and China, I said to watch out for Iran. The sleeping dogs. One rocket fired at Israel and we will have the war people have been worried about for years. Maybe this will be Trump's war. The Presidents before him all had their wars in various countries. Nearly all in the Middle East. Iran would make the deck complete. Is one worth keeping and eye on.

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## CloudMaker

@Cuchculan
 we should have NEVER made that deal with Iran IMO

like you said they want to wipe Israel our ally off the map. why would we make a deal with them??? Pay them to not nuke us?? Obama was a weak leader for approving that!

We were just giving them money so they could push off their nuke program to be bigger and better in the future. They still want to kill every man woman and child in Israel. Nothing has changed.

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## PinkButterfly

I read some post and think are you kidding me!! Seriously Yes there has been things happening in the USA.. Mudslides, Earth Quakes, Fires, Tornados and more lol wow unbelievable that someone post that Because a Christian Man is on Office now hahahaa sorry I can not help but laugh .. A Christian Man my foot lol he Cheated on all 3 wives, He filed Bankruptcy at least 5 times, He has Lied , He also is the one who sat in a Camper with Bill Bush laughing and talking about Grabbing Women by their..you know what!! And is also a Freaking Draft Dodger lol.. yes such an amazing Christian man who calls people names and stays on Twitter fighting with anyone and everyone but hey he is sooooooooooo loved!! 

Sorry but as a Person who Believes in God and his Son Jesus , Trump better hit his knees on  Judgment Day! 

His Wife looks miserable and when he reaches for her hand she slaps it away or moves her hand I feel so sorry for her I really do but she choose to come to America and marry him and get citizenship and yes he is rich so does she deserve what she gets NO not at all and her son doesn't either but why stay with someone she clearly can not stand and as the First Lady she needs to step up her game on doing things like many of the other First Ladies but I feel she is drained by all the Drama caused by Trump and his antics and affairs. 

His sons are Big Game Hunters that kills innocent endangered species for FUN!! FOR FUN!! REALLY? What has he taught his sons?? Nothing except to be as cruel as he is. 

Sorry just my point of view on the so called man which I do not call him a man because he is not a Real Man.

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## Cuchculan

The deal was made the take the weapons from them. So they would not be a threat to anybody. As it stood there were sanctions in place against them as long as they were nuclear. Ask yourself, which is more dangerous? Iran with the power to be nuclear or Iran with nothing nuclear at all? What do you think Iran wants to do right now? Cause havoc. I don't blame them either. It was not a weakness on the part of Obama. He done a good deal to make Iran less of a threat. Now Trump is making them more of a threat again. But we hear Trump boasting about North Korea. How he has / will make them non nuclear. How do you think this will happen exactly? The lifting of sanctions against North Korea. Is there any difference at all? Trump did say that those before him only had to reach out and talk to North Korea. Obama reached out and talked to Iran. He removed a threat. So Trump is not making progress at all. He manages to get one country to go non nuclear and makes another want to build bombs again. Would it not be a better world to have these countries all non nuclear? Less of a threat. He is giving North Korea what he is taken back from Iran.

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## InvisibleGuy

I've never been so scared, and so concerned for the future of my children as I am now with that incoherent, ignorant, crass, egotistical, moronic sexual predator that we have in office. God help us all.

Just listen to him talk. When he gives speeches sometimes, I feel like I'm watching a first grader learn how to read.

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## PinkButterfly

InvisbleGuy, You just hit the nail on the head!!! I am scared crapless that he is going to cause us to be Nuked !

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## CloudMaker

I don’t think the US will ever get nuked tbh. Yahweh will make sure that doesn’t happen as long as we keep him first. 

North Korea is different. They have always wanted to reunify with the south, just under their terms. Unlike Iran which wants to KILL all of Israel.

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## Cuchculan

As an Irishman I hate Israel. Is in our blood. We fully support Palestine. We fly their flags and all. But if them getting nuked by Iran means a big war, I would rather Iran not have the weapons to begin with. That is what this agreement was all about. 

The US will never be nuked. It will be a smaller country like Israel that will be hit. If it is by Iran can we blame Trump? He ruined any peace deal that was going on with them. He also likes to go against the EU. The EU had agreed to this deal with Iran as well. They still agree with it for the sake of peace. Which is a good enough reason in my eyes.

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## CloudMaker

If Iran nukes Israel then we should blame IRAN not trump. I don’t see how that makes sense otherwise. 

It’s like if I stop putting a lock on my bike and someone steals it is it my fault because I stopped locking it? No that is victim blaming.

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## InvisibleGuy

Bottom line is a lot of people (not just Americans, anyone with any sense) feel like nukes in the wrong hands can be dangerous. There are four countries that have nukes right now (presumably): Israel, Pakistan, North Korea and India. And of course the US. Simple logic would lead most to believe that the more countries with nukes, the greater the chance of a potential nuclear war. _There has never been a weapon invented that hasn't eventually been used._. When the machine gun was invented prior to WWI general consensus was "no one will ever use that, no one will ever wage war with a weapon that's capable of killing hundreds of men in seconds". And look what happened in WW I and II. Nuclear weapons have been used also oc, not once but twice....over Hiroshama and Nagasaki during the end of WWII.

The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons was drafted mainly to further disarmament and spread of nukes. Not all countries agree to the terms though. Iran at one time (I believe) signed the treaty but then said screw the terms we're going to do what we want, making the signing pretty much pointless.

So....you might think the next best thing would be to deescalate tensions in the countries that don't cooperate (Iran, North Korea)....right? Anything that can be done to stop further research and testing by those countries within reason would be a good idea right? I mean, you could have some free trade with those countries as long as arms inspectors from the United Nations could verify the terms are being met...and if they aren't being met, you could implement sanctions.

This is, imo why people are nervous right now. Do I think the US is going to be nuked lmao, in all likelihood no.

But you have morons like Donald Trump who instead of deescalating tensions seem to be at the controls with an itchy trigger finger. He seems to be doing everything, everything he can to escalate things, to "dare" them to start researching and testing nukes again. Why would anyone do that? That is pure f-ing insanity.

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## kevinjoseph

Cloudmaker, you realize Yahweh is Judaism, right?  If Yahweh is protecting any nation, it's not the US, it's Israel.  Why do US citizens need to worry about having Yahweh on our side?  

The US has been Israel's ally for a long long time, and it's only caused the US problems.

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## CloudMaker

@kevinjoseph
 70% of the US is Christian. We are a Christian nation IMO

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## kevinjoseph

Cloudmaker, we are most certainly not a Christian nation, despite your opinion.  We have no official religion, the Founding Fathers thought it important enough that we didn't have one they anticipated it being a problem and tried to arrange things so no one could say the United States favored any religion.  

If you want to live in a theocracy, you'd need to move to Iran, Afghanistan, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, or Yemen, somewhere Sharia Law is the basis for the justice system.

Your opinions aren't opinions when they contradict things like facts.  Opinions that contradict facts are more aptly called delusions.

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## Cuchculan

> Bottom line is a lot of people (not just Americans, anyone with any sense) feel like nukes in the wrong hands can be dangerous. There are four countries that have nukes right now (presumably): Israel, Pakistan, North Korea and India. And of course the US. Simple logic would lead most to believe that the more countries with nukes, the greater the chance of a potential nuclear war. _There has never been a weapon invented that hasn't eventually been used._. When the machine gun was invented prior to WWI general consensus was "no one will ever use that, no one will ever wage war with a weapon that's capable of killing hundreds of men in seconds". And look what happened in WW I and II. Nuclear weapons have been used also oc, not once but twice....over Hiroshama and Nagasaki during the end of WWII.
> 
> The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons was drafted mainly to further disarmament and spread of nukes. Not all countries agree to the terms though. Iran at one time (I believe) signed the treaty but then said screw the terms we're going to do what we want, making the signing pretty much pointless.
> 
> So....you might think the next best thing would be to deescalate tensions in the countries that don't cooperate (Iran, North Korea)....right? Anything that can be done to stop further research and testing by those countries within reason would be a good idea right? I mean, you could have some free trade with those countries as long as arms inspectors from the United Nations could verify the terms are being met...and if they aren't being met, you could implement sanctions.
> 
> This is, imo why people are nervous right now. Do I think the US is going to be nuked lmao, in all likelihood no.
> 
> But you have morons like Donald Trump who instead of deescalating tensions seem to be at the controls with an itchy trigger finger. He seems to be doing everything, everything he can to escalate things, to "dare" them to start researching and testing nukes again. Why would anyone do that? That is pure f-ing insanity.



I agree with you 100% on this one.

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## kevinjoseph

A lot more than 4 countries have nuclear weapons.  If you're a permanent member of the UN Security council, you have nukes.

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## Otherside

UK definatley has nukes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triden...ear_programme)

Pretty sure several other countries have nukes. Several this side of the world do.

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## InvisibleGuy

^ I stand corrected *shrug* And it doesn't surprise me at all. Just trying to construct an argument based on the few countries involved in the NPT early on. If you fact check me, you're bound to find mistakes, i'm not writing a research paper lol. Just trying to base an argument against the current United States administration's very, very flawed policies wrt nuclear proliferation, based on what I've heard.

Lol. Carry on.

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## InvisibleGuy

> UK definatley has nukes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triden...ear_programme)
> 
> Pretty sure several other countries have nukes. Several this side of the world do.



So how many other countries have nukes, Otherside?

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## Otherside

Interesting how you named dropped solely me, and not anyone else who pointed out that more than four countries had nukes. Or more than "America #1 World protector and big bad Iran India North Korea!" 

Overall though as Google would have told you, nine that are known of. Undoubtedly, there are others we don't know about. Only five had nukes legally.

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## InvisibleGuy

Lol. Well, no big deal. Just thought you could enlighten me  ::):  No reason to get offended.

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## kevinjoseph

I do find it funny in a sad way that the only country to ever have used nuclear weapons in war (the United States) is so concerned that other countries even have the capability to do the same.

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## Cuchculan

Think once the world saw the full effects of a Nuke it scared everybody. So much so that nobody wants to use one again. If you fired one today it would be blown up in the air before it leaves your own country. Or you would have one fired back at you. has anybody got a death wish?

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## InvisibleGuy

I agree. Thank the gods that, well hopefully, one won't see land if it's fired off. I suppose it's kind of a "good" thing that half the casualties in Hiroshima happened within 24 hours. What I mean by that is thank god they didn't suffer for too long.

Nuclear weapons don't kill tens of thousands of politicians, or dictators, or tyrants. They kill tens of thousands of women and children. There are eye witness accounts from Hiroshima, of women and children running from the city, naked, with their skin falling off of them like rags.

You don't have to imagine what it would be like....just look at history.

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## CloudMaker

> I agree. Thank the gods that, well hopefully, one won't see land if it's fired off. I suppose it's kind of a "good" thing that half the casualties in Hiroshima happened within 24 hours. What I mean by that is thank god they didn't suffer for too long.
> 
> Nuclear weapons don't kill tens of thousands of politicians, or dictators, or tyrants. They kill tens of thousands of women and children. There are eye witness accounts from Hiroshima, of women and children running from the city, naked, with their skin falling off of them like rags.
> 
> You don't have to imagine what it would be like....just look at history.



The Japanese wouldn’t have surrendered otherwise.... that’s what happens when you mess with the U S A ! ! !

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## Cuchculan

Look at Chernobyl. Still parts of that place you can't live in. Radiation readings are still through the roof. That happened in 1986. Might not have been a bomb dropped by another country. But it was as good as the same. Reactor melt down. Shows the effects of anything nuclear. People have seen this. Only thing there is to fear is a crazy leader who is dying and wants to take down millions with him. I know it was said in earlier post about countries who were nuclear. We have to ask how many have missiles? Ones that can fly long distances. Some countries may be nuclear but without the missile power. Short range fire only. But defence systems have improved big time.

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## kevinjoseph

I think all of Chernobyl is considered an exclusion zone and no humans can go there without special permission.  Kind of like the DMZ in Korea, it is flourishing with pristine wildlife since nobody will go there.  

But yeah Cloudmaker is totally right.  Nuclear weapons are great and their proliferation is not worrisome.

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## InvisibleGuy

ffs

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## PinkButterfly

Nuclear Weapons should have NEVER been made by anyone ever!!

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## kevinjoseph

> ffs



huh?

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## sunrise

It's passive aggression.

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## kevinjoseph

:silly:  not sure what it is

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## InvisibleGuy

My comment was in response to cloudmaker. Instead of getting into a back and forth, I chose to just make a general, very concise comment in response and just let it go.

I'll ignore the assumptions about passive aggression and the "huh" and the "what's" lmao, if they were directed at me. Not worth my time. Not worth the energy.   ::):

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