# Healing and Wellbeing > Spirituality, Religion and Faith >  >  Anyone else with a fear of church people?

## Chantellabella

I believe in God. I feel I have a very strong faith in God. I go to a program called Celebrate Recovery which is a 12 step program based on God at a church. This program helped me the first time I took it and it's helping me again.

I even like to go to church sometimes to listen to sermons.



So why am I afraid of church people? 


I have a few clues:
I've seen a lot of people who push religion, but act very mean and nasty in their daily life
I feel like I'm being judged even if I'm not
I feel they want to be my friend too fast and it scares me


I know that I'm judging right now and that makes me mad at me.  I know that I'm letting a few people dictate my view of "all" religious people when I even have proof of some really great friends who happen to go to church regularly.


I just wish I could get over my fear. The times that I've gotten close to religious people, it's been great and I've made lasting friends.

I'm just really scared about getting to know these religious people at my Celebrate Recovery group. It's like the minute they start quoting scripture or smile at me as though they "must do that" I get freaked. I know that's in my head though and they're not doing anything weird. 


Anybody else have a fear of church people? Would you like to share? 

(oh, and I'm not looking for a debate about whether there's a God or not here. Just wondering how other people feel about going to an organized church and how they get over the fear of being there with the other people. It would help to get some perspective here)

Thanks,

Cindy

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## Skippy

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## merc

I think everyone of us has run into someone who assails us with their self righteous religious beliefs. Some people really get into following the rules or steps to get some sort of reward, to live in heaven forever. The older I get the more unsure I get about wanting to live forever.  
 I go to church to learn how to be a better person.
I take my kids because I think children need "hope."  Also I get upset at how ignorant or uniformed people are about our own history of "life" on this planet. I've learned a lot of history through the bible readings. I've attended a passover dinner which is the remembers the jewish flight out of Egypt.

My neighbor likes to quote scripture quite a bit and I'm never sure how to respond. She does this with good intentions so I've never felt like she's beating me up or being cruel, but I've met some who use scriptures as weapons or to say something cruel and or thoughtless to someone.

If there is some kind of great calamity on this planet. Maybe only the religious doomsday survivalists will be around. I say this as a person who grew up on a farm and has some knowledge of animals, plants and country life.  I have a friend who when she cooks she opens a box and throws it on a cookie sheet and pops it in the oven for however long it takes!!! She won't even boil a potato for mashed potatoes. To make mashed potatoes pour out of box into bowl add hot water.

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## QuietCalamity

A lot of churchy people seem "fake" to me. It's not that they are bad people (well some are but they are easy to spot) it's just that they seem like they try really hard to be nice,  and it makes me anxious about what they are *really* thinking.
Also, it can be intimidating to be friends with someone so deep, if that makes sense.

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## Chantellabella

Thanks guys, for your responses. I hear what you're saying about the bible verse quotes. I tend to lose people when they start quoting me scripture also. I've listened to the bible with cds and so I have a knowledge of what's in the bible. I'm what you call a "Baby Christian" in that I just started believing a few years back. 

I guess the part that scares me the most is when I see people quote scripture and then in the same paragraph they're judging somebody. It just seems counter productive. 

I get it that people who have a strong faith want to share their stories and want to talk about God. But it's pretty overwhelming to people who are either just considering a belief in God or those who are trying to find a relationship with a higher power. I just see the quotes and God talk as a way to separate the "righteous" from the "unrighteous." Does that make sense? 

Like I said, I believe in God. I feel I have a relationship with God. I guess I'm struggling with the people who want to push their version of God? Not sure what it is.

Do any of you understand what I'm trying to say? I know I'm convoluted here.

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## QuietCalamity

> Thanks guys, for your responses. I hear what you're saying about the bible verse quotes. I tend to lose people when they start quoting me scripture also. I've listened to the bible with cds and so I have a knowledge of what's in the bible. I'm what you call a "Baby Christian" in that I just started believing a few years back. 
> 
> I guess the part that scares me the most is when I see people quote scripture and then in the same paragraph they're judging somebody. It just seems counter productive. 
> 
> I get it that people who have a strong faith want to share their stories and want to talk about God. But it's pretty overwhelming to people who are either just considering a belief in God or those who are trying to find a relationship with a higher power. I just see the quotes and God talk as a way to separate the "righteous" from the "unrighteous." Does that make sense? 
> 
> Like I said, I believe in God. I feel I have a relationship with God. I guess I'm struggling with the people who want to push their version of God? Not sure what it is.
> 
> Do any of you understand what I'm trying to say? I know I'm convoluted here.



I think so. As a Christian myself, it does bother me when people use the Bible like a rule book. It doesn't make sense that way because there are so many ways to interpret most scripture. I actually like that because every time it read it I find different meanings and insights to my life. I don't think it should have anything to do with other people, though. 

I remember as a teenager going to youth group and one day the topic was "Can you be gay and be a Christian?" It made me so angry! If you are not gay, why is that even your business?? And the way people treated it as fact that being gay is a sin when that's not exactly clear..... Just Grrr. 

Different denominations can be better than others in this regard also. Do you mind if I ask what kind of church you're going to?

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## Chantellabella

> I think so. As a Christian myself, it does bother me when people use the Bible like a rule book. It doesn't make sense that way because there are so many ways to interpret most scripture. I actually like that because every time it read it I find different meanings and insights to my life. I don't think it should have anything to do with other people, though. 
> 
> I remember as a teenager going to youth group and one day the topic was "Can you be gay and be a Christian?" It made me so angry! If you are not gay, why is that even your business?? And the way people treated it as fact that being gay is a sin when that's not exactly clear..... Just Grrr. 
> 
> Different denominations can be better than others in this regard also. Do you mind if I ask what kind of church you're going to?



Well, the church I visited here is a bible church, but the Celebrate Recovery people are made up of people from all religions. There are some like me who say they don't believe in God. I believe in God now and have a strong faith, but I started out with no belief, the first time I took the course. 

I've visited Baptist, Catholic, Episcopalian, Protestant, Methodist, Wesleyan, Pentacostal, Disciples of Christ, Church of Christ, Lutheran, and Non-Demoninational churches. Stayed 3 years with the Lutherans, 3 years with the Wesleyan and 3 years with the Catholics. Stayed less than a year or just a few visits of the others. 

I've also learned a great deal from the teens and young adults I worked with at my library. We had over 45 cultures and faiths, so I picked their brain often about the Islamic faith, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Judaism, Hinduism and other world religions. 

What I find interesting is that I am not threatened at all by the young people telling me about God. In fact, I'm the one asking them a ton of questions and wanting more information about their religion. It's the older adults that seem to exude something that scares me. 

I don't know. Maybe they remind me of my mother who talked about the devil being inside of me. She practiced a mixture of Santeria, voodoo and "her version" of Catholicism. But she never went to church. Just delved into the magic of it all. She sees a God as some type of punishing magician. It's sad.

Anyway, maybe my problem is not so much church people as it is older individuals who believe in God. I think you may have helped me figure out my problem QuietCalamity.  ::):  

Thanks. 


I'm still interested though in hearing if anyone has any similar fears. 


And yes.....................the whole gay bashing thing bothers me big time. I think any judgment in general while holding a bible is both hypocritical and sad. One of Jesus's most devoted followers was Mary Magdalene. I don't think we were put on this earth to judge anyone.

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## Chantellabella

> I think so. As a Christian myself, it does bother me when people use the Bible like a rule book. It doesn't make sense that way because there are so many ways to interpret most scripture. I actually like that because every time it read it I find different meanings and insights to my life. I don't think it should have anything to do with other people, though. 
> 
> I remember as a teenager going to youth group and one day the topic was "Can you be gay and be a Christian?" It made me so angry! If you are not gay, why is that even your business?? And the way people treated it as fact that being gay is a sin when that's not exactly clear..... Just Grrr. 
> 
> Different denominations can be better than others in this regard also. Do you mind if I ask what kind of church you're going to?



Well, the church I visited here is a bible church, but the Celebrate Recovery people are made up of people from all religions. There are some like me who say they don't believe in God. I believe in God now and have a strong faith, but I started out with no belief, the first time I took the course. 

I've visited Baptist, Catholic, Episcopalian, Protestant, Methodist, Wesleyan, Pentacostal, Disciples of Christ, Church of Christ, Lutheran, and Non-Demoninational churches. Stayed 3 years with the Lutherans, 3 years with the Wesleyan and 3 years with the Catholics. Stayed less than a year or just a few visits of the others. 

I've also learned a great deal from the teens and young adults I worked with at my library. We had over 45 cultures and faiths, so I picked their brain often about the Islamic faith, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Judaism, Hinduism and other world religions. 

What I find interesting is that I am not threatened at all by the young people telling me about God. In fact, I'm the one asking them a ton of questions and wanting more information about their religion. It's the older adults that seem to exude something that scares me. 

I don't know. Maybe they remind me of my mother who talked about the devil being inside of me. She practiced a mixture of Santeria, voodoo and "her version" of Catholicism. But she never went to church. Just delved into the magic of it all. She sees a God as some type of punishing magician. It's sad.

Anyway, maybe my problem is not so much church people as it is older individuals who believe in God. I think you may have helped me figure out my problem Cal ::):  

Thanks. 

I'm still interested though in hearing if anyone has any similar fears. 


And yes.....................the whole gay bashing thing bothers me big time. I think any judgment in general while holding a bible is both hypocritical and sad. One of Jesus's most devoted followers was Mary Magdalene. I don't think we were put on this earth to judge anyone. 

Cindy

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## WintersTale

I used to believe that I'd be struck down for not believing in God, and still going to church.

I no longer feel that way, but I don't believe in God anymore, or at least a specific God.

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## Chantellabella

> I used to believe that I'd be struck down for not believing in God, and still going to church.
> 
> I no longer feel that way, but I don't believe in God anymore, or at least a specific God.




yeah, I used to be always afraid too that if I did something wrong God would strike me dead with a lightning bolt. I still have somewhat of a fear, but I've gotten better about it.

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## crystaluna

> And yes.....................the whole gay bashing thing bothers me big time. I think any judgment in general while holding a bible is both hypocritical and sad.



Yes. Yes yes.
I cannot agree with this enough.

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## Misssy

Sort of all, but FIRST !!!  Winter spam >   tumblr_my35a7DlKX1qjz4kzo2_r1_500.gif



To answer this question

I went into a church store (they had purses on sale) (jesus purses) and this very perfect looking blond haired lady kept on giving me "your not really one of us" vibrations.

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## Chantellabella

> Sort of all, but FIRST !!!  Winter spam >   tumblr_my35a7DlKX1qjz4kzo2_r1_500.gif
> 
> 
> 
> To answer this question
> 
> I went into a church store (they had purses on sale) (jesus purses) and this very perfect looking blond haired lady kept on giving me "your not really one of us" vibrations.



Awesome winter spam.  ::):  

Yeah, I've had that happen also. I know it must have been my imagination, but it sure seemed like I was being judged by that person.

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## Chantellabella

> Yes. Yes yes.
> I cannot agree with this enough.



Yeah, I've seen people gay bashing right in front of their church building with their children present. How sad is that to teach your child to hate. I had that done to me by my own parents and unless they find someone with sense, they grow up being haters too.

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## Rawr

I've always had that fear. Once I went to the wrong church for me & a lot of people gave me the cold shoulder. Like the first time I visited my ex boyfriend's church while we was still dating, I was feeling VERY nervous with my social anxiety so I held his hand the entire time. Needless to say some people in his church started saying that we shouldn't have been holding hands before marriage & that we were being too lovey dovey but I didn't intend on it at all. I was SCARED & I'll hold ANYBODY'S hand when I'm scared. I feel like some of them pass on cold looks & I was even ignored a hand shake a couple of times. Then they try to test your knowledge on certain topics & just look at you oddly when you answer differently or are unsure of the topic. I know I shouldn't feel this way but I really don't like being in church with people cause I feel they push you to be social & befriend people there but in reality I just wanna hear the word of God & get home. :/

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## Chantellabella

> I've always had that fear. Once I went to the wrong church for me & a lot of people gave me the cold shoulder. Like the first time I visited my ex boyfriend's church while we was still dating, I was feeling VERY nervous with my social anxiety so I held his hand the entire time. Needless to say some people in his church started saying that we shouldn't have been holding hands before marriage & that we were being too lovey dovey but I didn't intend on it at all. I was SCARED & I'll hold ANYBODY'S hand when I'm scared. I feel like some of them pass on cold looks & I was even ignored a hand shake a couple of times. Then they try to test your knowledge on certain topics & just look at you oddly when you answer differently or are unsure of the topic. I know I shouldn't feel this way but I really don't like being in church with people cause I feel they push you to be social & befriend people there but in reality I just wanna hear the word of God & get home. :/



I hear you. I know there's no absolute and that churches have their awesome people and their judgey people just like the rest of society. I guess we put them on a higher pedestal to not be judgey or something? 

I've gotten to where when people say something judgmental to me while using bible verses...............well, I just answer..............God likes me, so that's ok if you don't.

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## Rawr

> I hear you. I know there's no absolute and that churches have their awesome people and their judgey people just like the rest of society. I guess we put them on a higher pedestal to not be judgey or something? 
> 
> I've gotten to where when people say something judgmental to me while using bible verses...............well, I just answer..............God likes me, so that's ok if you don't.



Good one! & true... Well I don't really expect them to not be judgmental. It's like anywhere I go pretty much I'm anxious of people in general. I just have my specifics about why I'm anxious in those certain environments.

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## Chantellabella

> Good one! & true... Well I don't really expect them to not be judgmental. It's like anywhere I go pretty much I'm anxious of people in general. I just have my specifics about why I'm anxious in those certain environments.



Yeah, I understand that. I was trying to explain to someone tonight, that I only get frustrated when I'm triggered and it doesn't necessary have to have anything to do with that's going on. I can be ok with one thing and then be really anxious with the exact same thing. So I understand.

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## Harpuia

I have three words to say on this topic.

F*** the church.

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## Chantellabella

> I have three words to say on this topic.
> 
> F*** the church.



Those three words are not appreciated. I asked in my original post that this not be a debate. I find your post not even close to the topic. Even though I voiced my fear of going to church, I did not ask for a discussion about a belief in God which seems to be what you're aiming at here. I know you recently had a bad experience with a church or your faith. I just don't appreciate you coming here and saying that just as much as you wouldn't appreciate me going after your post about your struggle with a church, saying, "fuck people who hate the church."

Maybe you can start your own thread called "fuck the church" and bash whomever you want to your hearts content. I do remember somewhere in the guidelines that attacking someone's religion, race, sex, etc was a no-no around here.

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## Harpuia

Tell me I'm out of line when the church stops harassing everyone and damning them to hell that actually gives a damn about their fellow human beings, the ones who kick others when they're down and out while worshipping the cruel and the rich.

Oh, but I'm out of line, not the ones who buy our political elections and tell us how wrong we are on Faux News because our minimum wage is nearing third-world status, telling us that we just aren't blessed by God enough because we're poor as shit.  I'm the one out of line, but the pastor who tried to cut me off from my two best friends and my parents who emotionally abuse me every chance they get, even when my girl is around are a-ok. I'm the one out of line, but the Church who is on a constant attack on the LGBT, non-Christian, and gaming communities praying for their suicides every day are a-ok.

I guess that's the beauty of Christian privilege.

There is nothing to debate here and I'm not debating or insulting you, in case you were wondering.  I care less what people's beliefs are.  Pretty sure there's a few good religious Christian people in this world (almost all of them would be more spiritual than religious though), but I'm tired of pretending like they are the rule when they are actually the exception.  I'm just calling it like I see it.

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## Chantellabella

> Tell me I'm out of line when the church stops harassing everyone and damning them to hell that actually gives a damn about their fellow human beings, the ones who kick others when they're down and out while worshipping the cruel and the rich.
> 
> Oh, but I'm out of line, not the ones who buy our political elections and tell us how wrong we are on Faux News because our minimum wage is nearing third-world status, telling us that we just aren't blessed by God enough because we're poor as shit.  I'm the one out of line, but the pastor who tried to cut me off from my two best friends and my parents who emotionally abuse me every chance they get, even when my girl is around are a-ok. I'm the one out of line, but the Church who is on a constant attack on the LGBT, non-Christian, and gaming communities praying for their suicides every day are a-ok.
> 
> I guess that's the beauty of Christian privilege.
> 
> There is nothing to debate here and I'm not debating or insulting you, in case you were wondering.  I care less what people's beliefs are.  Pretty sure there's a few good religious Christian people in this world (almost all of them would be more spiritual than religious though), but I'm tired of pretending like they are the rule when they are actually the exception.  I'm just calling it like I see it.



I'm not telling you that you are out of line for your beliefs. You have a right to your beliefs.

I'm telling you that you are out of line for posting your own agenda in this thread. If I wanted any kind of bashing of people, I would have titled it............"Anyone else with a fear of church people and if so, let's bash the [BEEP] outta them because they hurt me." THEN you would have been in line to come and bash people. 

Again, if you want to start your own thread on how much you hate a portion of the human race, go for it. In fact, I can refer you to an entire site that will be more than happy to oblige you. I just don't want this thread to go down the toilet. There's actually mature discussion here. 

Now if you would like to join the discussion and not make a blanket statement that assumes that "all" Christians are this or that, then go for it. If you say that you were hurt and give specific ways that you were hurt, go for it. But making statements that "all" churches or "Christian people" are bad, wrong (insert insult) isn't helping anyone. 

I get it. You were hurt. How specifically were you hurt and by whom? You obviously don't know the entire world and therefore making judgment on the entire world is a pretty closed thing. 

And hey..............."I'm just calling it like I see it." Which btw, doesn't negate the "out of line" rampage. 

Again, I would be more than happy to see you start your own religion bashing thread and stay out of this one. I would like to not have this thread moved to debate because one person doesn't know how to play nice with others.

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## Harpuia

It wouldn't be a bad idea.  I might consider it in the future but it's probably more suited for the politics forum.

No, really, I'm not joking.  It wouldn't be a spirituality issue more than it is a political or current events one.  :/

But I wanted to explain that my feelings are that to an extreme.  Very extreme.  Unabashedly very extreme.  There really wasn't any other way I can explain it without looking like a goofball.

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## Chantellabella

> It wouldn't be a bad idea.  I might consider it in the future but it's probably more suited for the politics forum.
> 
> No, really, I'm not joking.  It wouldn't be a spirituality issue more than it is a political or current events one.  :/
> 
> But I wanted to explain that my feelings are that to an extreme.  Very extreme.  Unabashedly very extreme.  There really wasn't any other way I can explain it without looking like a goofball.



Ok, first of all, you don't look like a goofball. You're judging yourself harshly.

And I get it big time about being so angry that you just want to blow up the world. I have also been hurt by people in churches, so I understand. I've not been hurt at the extreme that you were and so I can't relate to how awful that would be. But I hear you. And you have every right to be angry. Churches and church people, as well as just people in general can do a number on destroying someone's life. I mean, I've read of young people getting thrown out of their church by a pastor and then shunned by his family, wife, etc. It's awful and I don't doubt the people who were hurt, want to destroy "all religions" because of it. When your life is hurt so badly by people who are supposed to love you, it can seem like the end of the road. 

So know that I'm not faulting you on your feelings and you have a right to be very very angry. I wish people would realize how much they hurt others with their ignorance and selfishness. Or their "rules." 

So can I ask you a question? And you definitely don't have to answer because I know it's pretty personal. Were you a part of that church your entire life? And if so, are you being mistreated since you decided to leave?

Also..............I apologize for my sarcasm. I'll remove it.

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## Harpuia

Actually, I also am extra angry that the Republicans retook Congress.  After hearing for years that the nightmare was going to eventually be over if the Democrats continued to gain power (pfft, yeah right, but whatever, we'll go with it) the nightmare is only going to continue.

I was a part of Evangelicalism from the moment I was born.  I broke away once and I tried to be on the spiritual/neutral side for years but once the Crohn's Disease was diagnosed, and certain people in my life used it as an opportunity to change me into something they deem more "acceptable" for their society, I realized that the core of the hatred lies in the belief itself, not in just specific people, which is why I mention that there could be a few good Christians, but they are the exception not the rule.

And I think some religions are meh.  Buddhism being one of them where the people there are mostly peaceful, and yeah, Islam overall is physically more threatening than Christianity but no one causes more psychological mindfuckery than the Religious Right.  I still get nightmares over it some nights.  Thankfully not the last two weeks, but since I won't see my girl for the next four months, I dunno if they will continue or not.

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## Chantellabella

> Actually, I also am extra angry that the Republicans retook Congress.  After hearing for years that the nightmare was going to eventually be over if the Democrats continued to gain power (pfft, yeah right, but whatever, we'll go with it) the nightmare is only going to continue.
> 
> I was a part of Evangelicalism from the moment I was born.  I broke away once and I tried to be on the spiritual/neutral side for years but once the Crohn's Disease was diagnosed, and certain people in my life used it as an opportunity to change me into something they deem more "acceptable" for their society, I realized that the core of the hatred lies in the belief itself, not in just specific people, which is why I mention that there could be a few good Christians, but they are the exception not the rule.
> 
> And I think some religions are meh.  Buddhism being one of them where the people there are mostly peaceful, and yeah, Islam overall is physically more threatening than Christianity but no one causes more psychological mindfuckery than the Religious Right.  I still get nightmares over it some nights.  Thankfully not the last two weeks, but since I won't see my girl for the next four months, I dunno if they will continue or not.



Religious belief is one of my hobbies. Well, I guess human behavior and how religious belief plays into it, is what fascinates me. So I've done a ton of research into many religions and their beliefs..........Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, the Islamic faith, Mormonism, etc. I wanted to see what fundamental beliefs each religion holds to. I was amazed that even in the same religion, different Islamic Temples, different physical churches or different sects of the same religion could be vastly different in their belief system. Some are more structured than others. The ones who seem very structured like Catholicism and Mormonism, worked under a strict rule system. Some of the Fellowship churches I visited, seemed to be run mainly by what the pastor believed or his/her interpretation of the bible. They were only a small fraction of the various churches out there. I was amazed that there were also some religions who seemed democratic and were guided by a board of church elders and the congregation. In other words, I've not found any set ways to determine who or what a religion is or what they represent. I guess because they are made up of people and those people seem to guide the general flair of what will go on in that building.

Just wanted to let you know how I stand on religions in general.

As for your church................what did they do when your Crohn's Disease was diagnosed? I've heard of religions blaming people for getting sick. I hope they didn't do that to you. 

I also agree that religion can be easily used by people without good intentions to twist the rules to their own personal beliefs. Especially if they are in power like a pastor or voting elders. Sadly, sometimes people in power let that privilege go to their head and they become prideful, arrogant and power hungry. They can also delusionally believe that their values should be the values of everyone around them. Hence churches like Westboro Baptist Church arises where the members go out of their way to protest people who don't have their same exact belief. 

I have a strong relationship with God, but am not attached to any religion. I think the fear I have of churches is "organized mindset." What I've seen in my personal experience, is that when a group of people believe the same thing, it can actually resemble mob thought. When people are in a mob, it is easy to bully others around. They seem to get confidence or something that they are right and forget compassion. They forget how non-believers can get turned off with a lot of bible quoting. They also get very frustrated with non-believers. They literally do the exact opposite from helping the "closer to God" cause.  I've heard a couple of religious people in my life say, "The bible says that it's a sin," but never once giving thought to special circumstances. They close their eyes to the gay person whose faith is ten times more genuine than the person in the front row who gossips or treats his workers poorly. 

So yes, I can see how organized religion can be the cause of problems. And again, people make up religions. 

Just to give you an example............I work in a library. I gathered all 38 churches in our community and emailed them. I wanted to open a patnership where we just let each other know what upcoming programs were happening. Often one of our libraries or parks or large churches have events on the same exact day, thus making the families in our communities choose between programs. If we let each other know well in advance what was going on, we could try to avoid duplicating programs or competing days and times. In theory, it was supposed to be beneficial to the children of our community.

Out of 38 churches, 3 responded. One of them was the Islamic Community. 

I had to laugh. I said, "Well, I'm sure God's been trying to get churches to agree on a few things, so I was pretty pretentious to think I could do what God  can not." It's those darn people! They're so paranoid. Possessive. And downright stubborn.  ::):

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## Harpuia

I don't despise religion.  I have an issue with the Christian and to an extent, Muslim religions, and even then only on the more conservative/fundamentalist sides of them.  The Christian religion, especially the ones that I was so heavily influenced by, are just evil of the most wretched kind.  I despise them as human beings.  I used to be able to just live and let live, but after my illness and what had happened to me, I even have a hard time dealing with my family who are a lighter version of these sickos let alone one of them online.

One time one of those "true Christians" threatened to shoot me and a friend down in a polling place with a shotgun he had in the back of his truck for getting in the way of them intimidating a couple Hispanic voters.  I told them come bring that shotgun and let's see how tough you really are.  Security came in to break it up before things got worse.

Even worse than that, I have several dozen of them praying for me to kill myself to this day.

So yeah, when I say "Fuck the church."  I really mean it.  I don't believe they are just bad apples.  This is the core teaching of their religion.  Others' suffering is their gain.  Others' pleasure is their suffering.  We have to bend to their will, not the other way around, or there will be consequences.  God commands it.  They have 'dominion' after all.  I dealt with those consequences my whole life.  The only difference is I refuse to simply sit there, take it, and say "Please sir, may I have another?" anymore.  They'll have to earn their way to beat me to death.

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## Chantellabella

> I don't despise religion.  I have an issue with the Christian and to an extent, Muslim religions, and even then only on the more conservative/fundamentalist sides of them.  The Christian religion, especially the ones that I was so heavily influenced by, are just evil of the most wretched kind.  I despise them as human beings.  I used to be able to just live and let live, but after my illness and what had happened to me, I even have a hard time dealing with my family who are a lighter version of these sickos let alone one of them online.
> 
> One time one of those "true Christians" threatened to shoot me and a friend down in a polling place with a shotgun he had in the back of his truck for getting in the way of them intimidating a couple Hispanic voters.  I told them come bring that shotgun and let's see how tough you really are.  Security came in to break it up before things got worse.
> 
> Even worse than that, I have several dozen of them praying for me to kill myself to this day.
> 
> So yeah, when I say "Fuck the church."  I really mean it.  I don't believe they are just bad apples.  This is the core teaching of their religion.  Others' suffering is their gain.  Others' pleasure is their suffering.  We have to bend to their will, not the other way around, or there will be consequences.  God commands it.  They have 'dominion' after all.  I dealt with those consequences my whole life.  The only difference is I refuse to simply sit there, take it, and say "Please sir, may I have another?" anymore.  They'll have to earn their way to beat me to death.



I can see where the people of that church screwed you over big time. I'm sorry you went through that.

I've been fortunate to find some really awesome people in churches who became life-long friends. I've also had some people in churches judge me and tell me "God told them that I was an abomination." It would be nice if those judgmental people understood the damage they did to people. They say they want to bring people to church, but their behavior makes life long haters of the churches and God. 

My ex-husband married a woman who went to church regularly. She was always drunk, said mean things to my kids and told me at my son's wedding, "Have fun being single the rest of your life." My kids saw church as a bad thing because of her. Then my ex-husband "converted" to her religion and in the same week was telling my daughter, "Why do you love your mother? Don't you know she's crazy?" 

I have a strong belief and relationship with God. But I don't tell others to believe or go to church. I just try to show my kids compassion, honesty and hope. I feel God has been a part of my life and I feel very blessed. 

I also think those who hurt others, especially in the name of God, will have to answer for their cruelty when they die. 

Religion "can" be a breeding ground for self righteous people. That's probably why I don't trust the people in churches very much. But I have found some really awesome people there also. 

I know being raised in that judgmental environment had to have been very abusive. I've heard that people actually get PTSD from being brought up in too strict religions. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

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## Harpuia

> I can see where the people of that church screwed you over big time. I'm sorry you went through that.
> 
> I've been fortunate to find some really awesome people in churches who became life-long friends. I've also had some people in churches judge me and tell me "God told them that I was an abomination." It would be nice if those judgmental people understood the damage they did to people. They say they want to bring people to church, but their behavior makes life long haters of the churches and God. 
> 
> My ex-husband married a woman who went to church regularly. She was always drunk, said mean things to my kids and told me at my son's wedding, "Have fun being single the rest of your life." My kids saw church as a bad thing because of her. Then my ex-husband "converted" to her religion and in the same week was telling my daughter, "Why do you love your mother? Don't you know she's crazy?"



Lucky.

I find only two types of people in Church.  But the ones who are cruel are usually the ones most rock-solid in their faith.  The ones that are actually kind constantly have their faith questioned, which was how the basis of my theory about Christians as of August came about.  I dunno why but the few decent Christians I have met usually don't stay Christians for very long or are always, as one fanatic would call it "on the fence".  I THOUGHT there were a few nice Christians rock-solid in their faith but I learned the hard way that they eventually show their true colors in time.

I have a strong belief and relationship with God. But I don't tell others to believe or go to church. I just try to show my kids compassion, honesty and hope. I feel God has been a part of my life and I feel very blessed. 





> I also think those who hurt others, especially in the name of God, will have to answer for their cruelty when they die.



I think they will be rewarded, as God promised, with ten crowns on their head.  While the people who actually gave a [BEEP] about their fellow man will wind up in hell, sadly enough.  That is what their religion teaches.  God before man.  The ends justify the means.  Do whatever you have to do to keep God first in your (and others') lives.





> Religion "can" be a breeding ground for self righteous people. That's probably why I don't trust the people in churches very much. But I have found some really awesome people there also. 
> 
> I know being raised in that judgmental environment had to have been very abusive. I've heard that people actually get PTSD from being brought up in too strict religions. I'm sorry you had to go through that.



I actually have been diagnosed with PTSD from all that which is much of the reason why my mother hates me for it.  She has strongarmed doctors to temporarily getting rid of my PTSD and Asperger's conditions because, as she puts it "My son is not a cuckoo!  He's just a liar!"

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## Chantellabella

(I just want to explain where I'm coming from. I'm not debating your beliefs at all. You have every right to believe the way you do considering your past experiences with church people). Hence my explanation at the bottom about why I believe.





> Lucky.
> 
> I find only two types of people in Church.  But the ones who are cruel are usually the ones most rock-solid in their faith.



Have you met many people outside your particular church? I don't mean your faith, but your physical church? I'm not being flippant. I'm just wondering if you were able to visit other churches or if you were forced to do everything in your own church. 






> I think they will be rewarded, as God promised, with ten crowns on their head.  While the people who actually gave a [BEEP] about their fellow man will wind up in hell, sadly enough.



Just wanted to say that the God I know gets very upset when someone hurts one of his children. I don't know what the ten crowns are about, but my only king is God. So I won't be wearing a crown.  ::): 

I believe I saw heaven one time in a dream. My sister-in-law died in a jet ski accident. I felt very guilty because she often told me I kept her brother from her. 

In the dream, I was outside a house. I went into the house and went upstairs. We were in a bedroom. A cat I lost was sitting on the bed. I was thrilled that I saw Pooch. My sister-in-law said, "No, look out the window." I saw rolling hills with trees on both sides and flowers running down the hills. There was a blinding yellow light in the middle which obscured the scenery. 

But it wasn't what I saw. It was what I felt. For that brief instant I felt utter peace. It was something I had never felt before or after. Then I was outside the house. My sister-in-law said, "You don't have to feel guilty. Look where I am. I'm in heaven."

Then I woke up.

I know two other people who witnessed the same thing I witnessed. Without me telling them about my dream, they told me of their near death experiences. They described rolling hills with a yellow/white light. Then they said, "It wasn't what I saw. It was what I felt. Absolute peace. I'd never felt that before, nor since." 

One of these people died for a longer time. She met in heaven her grandmother and her grandchild. But she didn't have any grandchildren at the time. She was told by her grandmother that time is different in heaven. What's a lifetime here on earth is only a moment in heaven.

My point is that I saw no ten crowns. I saw no righteous or holier than thou people. I saw my sister-in-law who had trouble believing in God there. My friend saw her grandmother who attended church sometimes, but who tried to be good to others. She also saw her granddaughter who ended up being a missionary. So all types of people were there. 

What I do remember most is that utter peace. It's what made me walk toward finding a God. If heaven is like that, I want that. But I'm comforted to know that I don't have to do anything to get there. 

I try to not focus on people at all when it comes to my belief in God. People can suck big time and will drive you away from anything God-related if you give them enough time. I'm glad I decided to not depend on people to help me find that God relationship. 

I feel like that dream was a gift. At the time of the dream I did not believe in a God nor in heaven. So if God reaches out to people who don't care, don't trust, don't even want to know..................then that's good enough for me. 







> I actually have been diagnosed with PTSD from all that which is much of the reason why my mother hates me for it.  She has strongarmed doctors to temporarily getting rid of my PTSD and Asperger's conditions because, as she puts it "My son is not a cuckoo!  He's just a liar!"



Religion or Cult PTSD is fairly common. It can be caused by prolonged stress and if religion was used against you or you even got punished due to religion, it can most certainly cause PTSD. It sounds like your mother is the crazy one..............and the liar.

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## Harpuia

> Have you met many people outside your particular church? I don't mean your faith, but your physical church? I'm not being flippant. I'm just wondering if you were able to visit other churches or if you were forced to do everything in your own church.



Which one?  I've been to about seven in my life, and none of them turned out well.  The only one that sorta kinda did my parents wanted us out of immediately because they were allowing gays to be members of the church.  This was back at a time when they were even MORE conservative about their beliefs than they are now.





> Just wanted to say that the God I know gets very upset when someone hurts one of his children. I don't know what the ten crowns are about, but my only king is God. So I won't be wearing a crown. 
> 
> I believe I saw heaven one time in a dream. My sister-in-law died in a jet ski accident. I felt very guilty because she often told me I kept her brother from her. 
> 
> In the dream, I was outside a house. I went into the house and went upstairs. We were in a bedroom. A cat I lost was sitting on the bed. I was thrilled that I saw Pooch. My sister-in-law said, "No, look out the window." I saw rolling hills with trees on both sides and flowers running down the hills. There was a blinding yellow light in the middle which obscured the scenery. 
> 
> But it wasn't what I saw. It was what I felt. For that brief instant I felt utter peace. It was something I had never felt before or after. Then I was outside the house. My sister-in-law said, "You don't have to feel guilty. Look where I am. I'm in heaven."
> 
> Then I woke up.
> ...



Sorry, it was five crowns.  Ten crowns refers to a book in Revelation regarding the Beast.

*1. The incorruptible crown: 1 Cor. 9:24,25.* This is also called the imperishable crown. This crown is given to believers who faithfully run the race, who crucify every selfish desire in the flesh and point men to Jesus. 


*2. The crown of rejoicing: 1 Thess. 2:19, 20. & Dan 12:3* To those who faithfully are witnesses to the saving grace of God and leads souls to Jesus. This crown has also been named the soul winner's crown.

*3. The crown of life: James 1:12.* For those believers who endure trials, tribulations, and severe suffering, even unto death *Rev. 2:8-11.* This crown is also referred to as the martyr's crown.

*4. The crown of righteousness: 2 Tim. 4:8.* To those who love the appearing of Christ, who anxiously wait and look forward to the day when He will return for His saints. This crown is given to those who have lived a good and righteous life for God while living down here on earth.

*5. The crown of glory: 1 Pet. 5:1~4.* This is the pastor’s crown and will be given to the ministers who faithfully feed the flock of God. . This probably could also include preachers, teachers, Sunday School teachers, missionaries and all those who teach the Word of God in their respective ministries. 

I just copy/pasted that.





> What I do remember most is that utter peace. It's what made me walk toward finding a God. If heaven is like that, I want that. But I'm comforted to know that I don't have to do anything to get there. 
> 
> I try to not focus on people at all when it comes to my belief in God. People can suck big time and will drive you away from anything God-related if you give them enough time. I'm glad I decided to not depend on people to help me find that God relationship. 
> 
> I feel like that dream was a gift. At the time of the dream I did not believe in a God nor in heaven. So if God reaches out to people who don't care, don't trust, don't even want to know..................then that's good enough for me.



I used to be a guy on the fence but again, like many decent Christians, I was always on the fence not realizing that I was the apostate this whole time because I didn't follow everything the Bible said.  And to call myself forgiven and then brag about it like so many born-agains do to me is like poking fun at others because you have some big luxury that they do not.  I feel like there is special treatment given to people who are Christians who brag about it to others and do good things in front of the Church.  Notice I said in front of, I didn't mean that they were good people inside.  I call it "Christian privilege".  They feel this "privilege" allows them to be complete and total dicks and I've described a few of what I mentioned in another post.







> Religion or Cult PTSD is fairly common. It can be caused by prolonged stress and if religion was used against you or you even got punished due to religion, it can most certainly cause PTSD. It sounds like your mother is the crazy one..............and the liar.



Actually, I almost got over it until I was in the ER being diagnosed with Crohn's and all this happened.  Now I'm even more hostile towards born-again Christians than I was in my days as an atheist in college.  At least back then I backed off whenever one of those Christians got in college campus with an urge to proselytize.  Now... yeah.

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## Chantellabella

Hi Harpuia,

I looked up those passages in a ton of different bible versions and it's interpreted in all kinds of ways. The drawback of the bible............different religions can interpret them to whatever their rules are I guess. It sure seems that way. 

After listening to the entire bible on dramatized cds, I've come to see the Old Testament as a history book and the New Testament as something that gives me hope for all my flaws. I really haven't found any one or two lines that damn me. Maybe I'm reading it wrong or something. I'm kinda literal so I see the battles as happening a long time ago with people who lived a long time ago fighting. 

In fact, I try not to read one or two lines without reading the entire chapter because it seems those lines can be taken out of context when they're not with the entire story. It's pretty scary how some churches/religions/pastors focus on one little piece of the bible and make this big elaborate "doctrine" from it. That's pretty scary to me too. 

I actually was curious about how different people interpreted lines of the bible from their own religious perspective. I had over 40 religions and cultures represented in my Teen Advisory Board at my library. It was amazing that the same line could be interpreted in so many different ways. 

I actually feel sorry for the people who think they're "saved" because they attend church regularly and look down on non-believers. While they're so busy being haughty, the peons like me are hearing words from God. I've actually heard things like "Look at the sky," "Count the drops," "Build a bridge," "Because you listen, they don't," and other things that had no context when I've talked to God. When I've told "holy" people about these experiences, they always have said, "I wish God would talk to me. I never hear God's voice." Maybe it's because they're so busy judging others and believing their own self righteousness, huh? 

But again, it's not all. But yeah, I've met a few like that. 

Hey, I have a way for you to avoid people coming at you with a lot of "are you saved" stuff. I've told them in the past, "My higher power is Marvin the Martian. He just blows things up that get in his way." You should see how fast those people need to leave.  ::):

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## Harpuia

For me it was the opposite.  The bullies could speak to God but I cannot.

Life as a Christian for me was absolutely miserable.  Ever since I left Christianity, life has grown better for me by leaps and bounds, even to the point that I no longer need anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medication.

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## Chantellabella

> For me it was the opposite.  The bullies could speak to God but I cannot.
> 
> Life as a Christian for me was absolutely miserable.  Ever since I left Christianity, life has grown better for me by leaps and bounds, even to the point that I no longer need anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medication.



After hearing about your experience in the church, I understand how you can have resentment and anger. 

Thank you for explaining your background story to me. I can hear the pain in relating what happened. It took a lot of courage to talk about it. 

So thank you.

I'm glad that you're able to cope better with what's going on in your life. And you sound like you're much more grounded and happy.

 :Hug:  I hope that one day your family throws out all the religion junk and sees the wonderful person that you are.

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## Harpuia

...and my family has abandoned me.  Allowing me to say what I want to say on FB now.

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## Chantellabella

> ...and my family has abandoned me.  Allowing me to say what I want to say on FB now.



The abandonment is no fun, but you're right..................you don't have to worry now about what they say or think.  ::):

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