# Anxiety Disorders > Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) >  >  A Second Chance

## Chantellabella

Have you ever heard the quote, "The greatest gift you can give someone is a second chance"?

As many of you know I've been on the planet for quite sometime. I'm 55 for those who don't know my age. 

Hence I have made more mistakes than you guys have had days on this earth. Huge mistakes! Mistakes that have followed me around like a chain on my neck. 

Sometimes you can make amends. And other times, you have to accept you will never get forgiven. My brother doesn't seem to want to forgive me nor ever get back in my life. In a nutshell, he was 5 years younger than me, I took care of him almost from birth, I ran away from home at age 15, thus abandoning him. I didn't see it as abandonment at the time and I did go back after I graduated from high school. But then I left again at age 21 after getting married and moving to another state. After 3 years, I moved back home to New Orleans, but by that time, I got the impression he wanted nothing to do with me. Maybe it was the "I want you out of my life completely" statement he told me. He stopped talking to me then. I never understood what I did until 2005 at my father's funeral. My brother finally told me that I left him. He hasn't forgiven me since. He is 50 years old. I get very sad when I think of never seeing him again. 

But to get back to my original thought. .......

I am grateful that people in my life have forgiven me and given me a second chance. Despite major screw ups I've done, there are people out there who understand that people change, grow, improve, regret actions. 

Have you ever been in a situation where you're grateful that you've gotten a second chance to make things right? 

Do you feel you are able to give someone else a second chance?

I know there are special circumstances that you can't. You might be able to forgive an abuser, but if that person is not sorry, has not gotten help..........well, it's not safe to go back with that person. But if the person has shown you that they have changed (not just said it), are you able to forgive them?

Those with SA................can you believe a taunter has changed?
Those with PTSD.............what about your abuser?

I know it's hard to discern change. Sometimes it's merely a manipulation and one more game. But it is possible for a complete change.

Those who have been hurt in some way................... are you willing to give someone a second chance? Do you think people can change?

Thanks for answering,

Cindy

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## P0pcorn

This is hard one.

My abusers - never.
My mum. I have tried for years to just have some kind of a relationship with her, but time and time again she push me away. So I give up on that. She is also a big part of what is currently going on with me. She was abused by her father and she left me to stay with her parents for a couple of years and we visited the often..... So you can think to yourself what happened to me. My mum could tell my aunt to keep her daughters away form her father but she did not protect me from him?!?!?! At the beginning of the year I decided that she need to know everything. So I sat down with her and told her and after I had given up on her, now she wants do build a relationship with her. I will give her a change, but will watcher few carefully. 

I think your brothers hurt is very big and can not see past that as yet. Only once he can understand why you did what you did there might be a possibility of a second change.

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## L

My boyfriend gave me a second chance, I am so grateful of that as he is as of now the only person I truly love and trust. 

I forgave my mum after I learnt I am somewhat like her and started to understand that it is hard for her to talk about emotional things, even if my life was in danger. 

I did forgive my dad after I learnt to stand up to him and he put some effort in to stop shouting at me. But at the moment he is starting to pick on me again. I forgive him for calling me stupid and not discovering I'm dyslexic.  

I will never forgive my aunt who accused me of something pretty bad it has torn our family apart. My mum,  her sister, refuses to have anything to do with her and I feel ay fault....even though I did nothing. She was meant to be my god mother.

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## Chantellabella

> This is hard one.
> 
> My abusers - never.
> My mum. I have tried for years to just have some kind of a relationship with her, but time and time again she push me away. So I give up on that. She is also a big part of what is currently going on with me. She was abused by her father and she left me to stay with her parents for a couple of years and we visited the often..... So you can think to yourself what happened to me. My mum could tell my aunt to keep her daughters away form her father but she did not protect me from him?!?!?! At the beginning of the year I decided that she need to know everything. So I sat down with her and told her and after I had given up on her, now she wants do build a relationship with her. I will give her a change, but will watcher few carefully. 
> 
> I think your brothers hurt is very big and can not see past that as yet. Only once he can understand why you did what you did there might be a possibility of a second change.



I think it's easier to give people a second chance if they're not only apologized and taken responsibility for their actions, but have also shown that they aren't the same person who hurt you. I know some people are able to forgive people who have never apologized. Like I know I need to let a couple of people off the hook.......people who will never apologize. I'm sure they don't even see what they did to me. I know that letting that bitterness and resentment go will help me. 

It's just really hard unless they're actually shown me that they are sorry and have changed. 

But then I think..............how many people have I hurt in my lifetime and don't even realize it. I'm sure there are people on this earth, still steaming about things I've done to them and will no way in hell give me a second chance if our paths cross again. I would want them to see that I'm sorry and I've changed. 

I guess it works both ways, huh? 

Darn. 

Yep, POpcorn, this is a hard one to think about. I agree.

Cindy

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## Chantellabella

> My boyfriend gave me a second chance, I am so grateful of that as he is as of now the only person I truly love and trust. 
> 
> I forgave my mum after I learnt I am somewhat like her and started to understand that it is hard for her to talk about emotional things, even if my life was in danger. 
> 
> I did forgive my dad after I learnt to stand up to him and he put some effort in to stop shouting at me. But at the moment he is starting to pick on me again. I forgive him for calling me stupid and not discovering I'm dyslexic.  
> 
> I will never forgive my aunt who accused me of something pretty bad it has torn our family apart. My mum,  her sister, refuses to have anything to do with her and I feel ay fault....even though I did nothing. She was meant to be my god mother.



Is it better to forgive and give a second chance to people who have apologized? Like has your aunt admitted what she did and feels true remorse? It's just so hard to do that whole let it go, turn the other cheek (sorry for the spiritual reference) and stuff like that. 

Like where's the line? Does a person who is constantly getting abused go back over and over and over? It's hard to tell when to give a second chance. But then I hope for myself that I keep getting them. 

And with your dad. If your dad hurts you, and you try to talk with him and he says something like, "that's just the way I am," or "get over it" do you still give him chances. 

I know this world is messed up and we keep breeding messed up generations because it just seems not many people apologize for their actions or take responsibility. But what's the limit of giving second chances?

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## L

> Is it better to forgive and give a second chance to people who have apologized? Like has your aunt admitted what she did and feels true remorse? It's just so hard to do that whole let it go, turn the other cheek (sorry for the spiritual reference) and stuff like that. 
> 
> Like where's the line? Does a person who is constantly getting abused go back over and over and over? It's hard to tell when to give a second chance. But then I hope for myself that I keep getting them. 
> 
> And with your dad. If your dad hurts you, and you try to talk with him and he says something like, "that's just the way I am," or "get over it" do you still give him chances. 
> 
> I know this world is messed up and we keep breeding messed up generations because it just seems not many people apologize for their actions or take responsibility. But what's the limit of giving second chances?



I think a simple sorry goes a long way -it would mean so much - of the three people I listed none have done that or recognised the impact of their actions or if they have haven't let me know, if you get me? It is important to understand people make mistakes and we need to try and understand where their head was at that time when something went wrong. 

I have not spoken to my aunt in over four years. She really really hurt me (I'm close crying now), I don't know if I could let it go without  her coming to me and explaining why things went the way they did. What she did to me doesn't hurt me as much as it hurts me that my mum will have nothing to do with her any more. 

The only thing I have said to my dad is to stop shouting at me, talk to me, explain to me what you think I should have done instead of insulting me. He doesn't say things like he can't help it- if he shouts at me now he does say sorry, only because I refuse to talk to him - the last time he lost it at me over the phone he shortly after text sorry. I can forgive him because, even though his shouting has scared me, he is my dad and making some an effort....

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## life

i am not the same person i was 20 years ago, so i try and give people second chances. In my whole life there is only one person who i just can not forgive, not because of the effect of that persons actions on me, but the effect on other peoples lives   ::(:

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## Chantellabella

> I think a simple sorry goes a long way -it would mean so much - of the three people I listed none have done that or recognised the impact of their actions or if they have haven't let me know, if you get me? It is important to understand people make mistakes and we need to try and understand where their head was at that time when something went wrong. 
> 
> I have not spoken to my aunt in over four years. She really really hurt me (I'm close crying now), I don't know if I could let it go without  her coming to me and explaining why things went the way they did. What she did to me doesn't hurt me as much as it hurts me that my mum will have nothing to do with her any more. 
> 
> The only thing I have said to my dad is to stop shouting at me, talk to me, explain to me what you think I should have done instead of insulting me. He doesn't say things like he can't help it- if he shouts at me now he does say sorry, only because I refuse to talk to him - the last time he lost it at me over the phone he shortly after text sorry. I can forgive him because, even though his shouting has scared me, he is my dad and making some an effort....



I can see people who at least apologize after they've done something............or make the effort. What about the ones who absolutely refuse to even admit the part they played. Yeah, I can see that all relationships are two-sided, meaning we feed off each other's problems. But sometimes you can just see that you're wrong, but are too stubborn, proud, scared to admit it. Then the other person is left with the fact that you just aren't sorry. 

Would that be somebody who deserves a second chance? I'm really trying to wrap my brain about this because I want to treat people as I want/need to be treated. Plus I want to stop judging people. It's not my place to judge others. 

So would you say 100% of the time give 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances? Where's the line of no more chances. 

This helps to hear what other people think on the subject. Lots to think about.

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## Chantellabella

> i am not the same person i was 20 years ago, so i try and give people second chances. In my whole life there is only one person who i just can not forgive, not because of the effect of that persons actions on me, but the effect on other peoples lives



I can see where it would be hard to forgive someone who did something horrendous to a lot of people. Like does Hitler deserve a second chance? Like I asked Lasair.............where do you draw the line on just letting it go and taking the leap to trust them again. Or talk to them. Or even just let go of the anger?

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## L

I think every person and situation is different, as are all other influencing factors. Religion, morals, beliefs, who the person is , where they sit in your life what happened. Can everyone be judged the same. I am not one to judge or hold a grudge easily. 
If someone can truly forgive they will feel. 

Does someone still feel hurt once they have forgiven. It is a choice, something you have to work on or does it just come, you dint feel the need to hold it against them anymore

Sorry if I don't make sense, 2am, just woke after 3 hours x

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## pam

I always get in trouble on the topic of forgiveness because even tho everyone says it's a choice, I think forgiveness is a feeling. Specifically, one where you feel the anger melt and leave your heart and the bond with the person is restored. 

Unfortunately I haven't felt that too many times. But when I do, it's so nice! 

As far as anyone forgiving me, I don't know. I feel so unimportant, I don't believe I've had any impact on anyone, positive or negative, so I don't ask to be forgiven and don't even know if I hurt people. I just assume I don't cuz I just don't matter enough anyway.

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## pam

I think it's possible that I never understood the view that forgiveness is a choice because I can't force myself to not be mad or hurt through sheer will. That's how I always took it, but maybe that's not what they really meant. IDK.

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## Antidote

Depending on the transgression I believe in giving people a 2nd chances at most. Sometimes people are slow to realise how they've hurt or harmed you. But if after the 2nd chance they continue to hurt / harm you - despite you having communicated clearly your expectations of them, your interpretation of their intentions / behaviour, and the effect of their actions, leaving no ambiguity - then it's time to let them go for good. Giving them anymore chances is just you being a doormat.

Whether you give them a second chance at all depends on the nature of the transgression - how much pain they inflicted and if you think their intentions were genuinely bad. However the latter part is risky since people who are socially / interpersonally unskilled (which a lot of us on a forum like this are), can be quite off in attributing intentions to other people. We may also have trouble understanding how our behaviour may be interpreted by others. The fact that you didn't know until decades later why your brother was holding a grudge against you is an example of this. It shows how important it is for people to communicate when they feel someone has transgressed against them. On some level your brother may have assumed you knew you had 'betrayed' him, ie. he assumed your intentions were bad, rather than that you were just oblivious. 

I don't really forgive people often unless they did something minor. I am the type who holds grudges and as a result I've dropped many people throughout my life. My own view of forgiveness, is that it's mostly tied to forgetting. I don't mean that a forgiver entirely forgets a transgression that happened, but they forget the pain it caused, it no longer feels raw, and then they are able to progress to a state of forgiveness. I don't really ever forget the pain a transgression causes, hence I won't forgive. The only thing that could possibly change that is if the person expressed genuine remorse and did not repeat their transgression, and even then it's still iffy.  

I also relate to what Pam said about not feeling like I have much of an impact on people - both good or bad. I usually feel inconsequential and it surprises me and never really 'clicks' when someone indicates I've upset them, or pleased them in some way. I think this mentality causes further problems in accurately gauging the effect of your actions on other people, or what intentions others may attribute to your actions.

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## life

> I can see where it would be hard to forgive someone who did something horrendous to a lot of people. Like does Hitler deserve a second chance? Like I asked Lasair.............where do you draw the line on just letting it go and taking the leap to trust them again. Or talk to them. Or even just let go of the anger?



 (not on the scale of Hitler) im not angry, just sad,id rather not go into details, but the damage caused by this person to 2 innocent people is beyond my comprehension,  there potential, personality, life chances all damaged= how could i ever possibly forgive that

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## Chantellabella

> I think every person and situation is different, as are all other influencing factors. Religion, morals, beliefs, who the person is , where they sit in your life what happened. Can everyone be judged the same. I am not one to judge or hold a grudge easily. 
> If someone can truly forgive they will feel. 
> 
> Does someone still feel hurt once they have forgiven. It is a choice, something you have to work on or does it just come, you dint feel the need to hold it against them anymore
> 
> Sorry if I don't make sense, 2am, just woke after 3 hours x



You make a lot of sense at 2am.  ::):  

And I agree that people can't be judged the same. Maybe assess the situation. If the person continues hurting with no indication of remorse. .............. idk. Here's the judging part again. What if a person who keeps hurting over and over again does it as a defense mechanism. Or because they are scared. Maybe those malice at all. Just cluelessness even after they've been told that it hurts someone. For instance, a lot of us refuse to go out with friends. I cancel going out with co-workers all the time. One of them may feel I just don't like them and have an entire scenario in their head about how cruel I am. 

I guess like you guys said above ......... it's important to tell someone. Maybe give them examples or show them. Then it's easier to tell if they truly want to stop hurting you.





> I always get in trouble on the topic of forgiveness because even tho everyone says it's a choice, I think forgiveness is a feeling. Specifically, one where you feel the anger melt and leave your heart and the bond with the person is restored. 
> 
> I like that. Forgiveness is a feeling. It's when anger melts, leaves your heart and the bond with the person is restored. That's a perfect way to describe it!







> Unfortunately I haven't felt that too many times. But when I do, it's so nice! 
> 
> As far as anyone forgiving me, I don't know. I feel so unimportant, I don't believe I've had any impact on anyone, positive or negative, so I don't ask to be forgiven and don't even know if I hurt people. I just assume I don't cuz I just don't matter enough anyway.



You make a big impact on me.  :Hug: 





> Depending on the transgression I believe in giving people a 2nd chances at most. Sometimes people are slow to realise how they've hurt or harmed you. But if after the 2nd chance they continue to hurt / harm you - despite you having communicated clearly your expectations of them, your interpretation of their intentions / behaviour, and the effect of their actions, leaving no ambiguity - then it's time to let them go for good. Giving them anymore chances is just you being a doormat.
> 
> Whether you give them a second chance at all depends on the nature of the transgression - how much pain they inflicted and if you think their intentions were genuinely bad. However the latter part is risky since people who are socially / interpersonally unskilled (which a lot of us on a forum like this are), can be quite off in attributing intentions to other people. We may also have trouble understanding how our behaviour may be interpreted by others. The fact that you didn't know until decades later why your brother was holding a grudge against you is an example of this. It shows how important it is for people to communicate when they feel someone has transgressed against them. On some level your brother may have assumed you knew you had 'betrayed' him, ie. he assumed your intentions were bad, rather than that you were just oblivious. 
> 
> I don't really forgive people often unless they did something minor. I am the type who holds grudges and as a result I've dropped many people throughout my life. My own view of forgiveness, is that it's mostly tied to forgetting. I don't mean that a forgiver entirely forgets a transgression that happened, but they forget the pain it caused, it no longer feels raw, and then they are able to progress to a state of forgiveness. I don't really ever forget the pain a transgression causes, hence I won't forgive. The only thing that could possibly change that is if the person expressed genuine remorse and did not repeat their transgression, and even then it's still iffy.  
> 
> I also relate to what Pam said about not feeling like I have much of an impact on people - both good or bad. I usually feel inconsequential and it surprises me and never really 'clicks' when someone indicates I've upset them, or pleased them in some way. I think this mentality causes further problems in accurately gauging the effect of your actions on other people, or what intentions others may attribute to your actions.



I hear you and tend to believe that way. What's the saying? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." But then I look back at the 100x I made the same mistake or the 50 x and now as I look back I see where I was wrong, wrong, wrong. Some people I have found to make amends. Others I have not. But if ever that one or two people who I have hurt shows up in my life, I would hope after decades of anger, if they would forgive me. Would one apology make up for a lifetime of hurt?

And to those who have hurt me in such life changing ways..........if I met them today and they sincerely apologized............would I be able to forgive them or give them a second chance? Yet I would want the same. That's called two-faced, huh? Not good.  ::(: 





> (not on the scale of Hitler) im not angry, just sad,id rather not go into details, but the damage caused by this person to 2 innocent people is beyond my comprehension,  there potential, personality, life chances all damaged= how could i ever possibly forgive that



I can understand this, especially if the two people were children or people incapable of defending themselves. Were these people able to talk to their aggressor? Say they were hurt?

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## merc

Those with SA................can you believe a taunter has changed?

Interesting topic

I'm 47. A few years ago I ran into an old nemesis, back in high school she was very well-dressed, her Mom owned a small clothing boutique. She was mean and not so nice at least not to me.

She is a bit different. She is 47. She has kids a daughter and son somewhere near the ages of my children. She has some weight issues not super heavy but definitely not slender. She is very involved with her kids. She was a girl scout troop leader not my daughter's but same group but different troop. At some girl scout function she lost two of her troop and was frantic. I knew where they went and let her know. 

She was nice to me and rather friendly. We talked a little about how hard it was to fit in in high school and our worries about our kids. I was the one who was stand-offish as are a few other of her victims. I truly think she has changed for the better, but I know of one other mutual classmate who absolutely refuses to have anything to do with her. I  remember the mean things she said and did. It is just hard to equate the pudgy middle age woman she has become with the queen of mean.

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## life

I can understand this, especially if the two people were children or  people incapable of defending themselves. Were these people able to talk  to their aggressor? Say they were hurt? yes = made a difference =no

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## pam

I agree with Antidote, in her first paragraph describing how if you communicate clearly and try to explain and straighten it out (and that has to be by both parties), and it STILL is a problem, then yeah, maybe they don't deserve another chance. I agree there does come a point where you're just asking for it/being a doormat. (I have some experience doing that myself--being a doormat. But not anymore.)

Thank you Cindy for saying that.  ::): 

As far as your brother goes, he's had these feelings for decades now, so they could be so strong just because time has gone by without anything changing. But how was anything supposed to change when he didn't tell you he was mad or hurt, and, you didn't know how things affected him. There wasn't really an opportunity to clear anything up. Since it happened in your childhoods, you were not really responsible for him, so you cannot hold yourself responsible because you were trying to survive also. He obviously saw you as more than just a sister even tho you weren't his parent. Anyway, I'm sure you know all this....Have you talked to him about it? Have you apologized for hurting him? And leaving him behind? (NOT saying you're guilty, but there's nothing wrong with letting him know you feel bad that it hurt him so much). Have you ever been involved with each other's lives as adults? Actually I'm no expert on siblings. I've been estranged from my sister for...ever. Some things aren't repairable but not if both of you want to try! 

All you can do is show him how you feel bad about not being aware that he was so hurt by you leaving, and then the ball's kind of in his court. I hope he can see you never had any bad intentions toward him!

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## Chantellabella

> Those with SA................can you believe a taunter has changed?
> 
> Interesting topic
> 
> I'm 47. A few years ago I ran into an old nemesis, back in high school she was very well-dressed, her Mom owned a small clothing boutique. She was mean and not so nice at least not to me.
> 
> She is a bit different. She is 47. She has kids a daughter and son somewhere near the ages of my children. She has some weight issues not super heavy but definitely not slender. She is very involved with her kids. She was a girl scout troop leader not my daughter's but same group but different troop. At some girl scout function she lost two of her troop and was frantic. I knew where they went and let her know. 
> 
> She was nice to me and rather friendly. We talked a little about how hard it was to fit in in high school and our worries about our kids. I was the one who was stand-offish as are a few other of her victims. I truly think she has changed for the better, but I know of one other mutual classmate who absolutely refuses to have anything to do with her. I  remember the mean things she said and did. It is just hard to equate the pudgy middle age woman she has become with the queen of mean.



Funny how time can change things. I know for myself that when I remember someone as being a certain way, I picture them in that time frame. Maybe that's what contributes to our views of them as people. We see them as still a high school bully. It seems that the reality of time changing her appearance, helped you see her in a different light. I wonder if your friend saw her today or got to know her would still put her in the high school bully role. 

I'm embarrassed to say, I have a 75 year old aunt, who believes in that black and white, love/hate way and if you've crossed her once, you'll never get a second chance. I asked her one time if she would be grateful if people forgave her or didn't judge her. Her answer............"I never make mistakes. I'm perfect." She was serious. That's got to be a sad way to live.





> I can understand this, especially if the two people were children or  people incapable of defending themselves. Were these people able to talk  to their aggressor? Say they were hurt? yes = made a difference =no



I can see why it would be hard to trust that person. I've had situations like that and for me though, I had to let it go. It was just draining to hang onto such futile anger. No, I probably wouldn't trust the people, but spending the energy to hate them just made me feel bitter. So I let it go to lift my burden. Not saying anyone has to do that. I guess it was because I know how I've hurt others and been forgiven, so I just felt better no longer dwelling on their behavior or actions.

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## Chantellabella

> I agree with Antidote, in her first paragraph describing how if you communicate clearly and try to explain and straighten it out (and that has to be by both parties), and it STILL is a problem, then yeah, maybe they don't deserve another chance. I agree there does come a point where you're just asking for it/being a doormat. (I have some experience doing that myself--being a doormat. But not anymore.)
> 
> Thank you Cindy for saying that. 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as your brother goes, he's had these feelings for decades now, so they could be so strong just because time has gone by without anything changing. But how was anything supposed to change when he didn't tell you he was mad or hurt, and, you didn't know how things affected him. There wasn't really an opportunity to clear anything up. Since it happened in your childhoods, you were not really responsible for him, so you cannot hold yourself responsible because you were trying to survive also. He obviously saw you as more than just a sister even tho you weren't his parent. Anyway, I'm sure you know all this....Have you talked to him about it? Have you apologized for hurting him? And leaving him behind? (NOT saying you're guilty, but there's nothing wrong with letting him know you feel bad that it hurt him so much). Have you ever been involved with each other's lives as adults? Actually I'm no expert on siblings. I've been estranged from my sister for...ever. Some things aren't repairable but not if both of you want to try! 
> 
> All you can do is show him how you feel bad about not being aware that he was so hurt by you leaving, and then the ball's kind of in his court. I hope he can see you never had any bad intentions toward him!



You made me realize that I shouldn't give up. I need to try harder to clear things up and get into his life. At least if he gets annoyed with me, or yells at me, well, it's at least some contact. Thank you for your advice.  :Hug: 



What about others? I'd like to hear from members. How do you discern between giving others a chance and saying enough is enough?

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## compulsive

If they intended to hurt me then I will not forgive ever.  Especially if I am still afraid of them.

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## Chantellabella

> If they intended to hurt me then I will not forgive ever.  Especially if I am still afraid of them.



Thanks for sharing this. I hear you on this side of the coin also. There are a few people in my life who out right lied to cover their butts. In doing so, I got hurt. These people are harder to give chances (at least for me). 

Maybe because I'm my age, but I've gotten to the point where I've stood up to all the bullies in my life. I'm not afraid of them anymore, nor give them power over me. Standing up to them, finally allowed me to see how sad and pathetic they really are. They feel so bad about themselves that they have to push others around to feel better. I pity them. I guess since I no longer feel powerless over them, and actually pity their cowardice, I can also see them as people rather than monsters. As people would I give them a second chance? I might. I wouldn't trust them or be vulnerable around them until they showed me they got help and was truly sorry. And they would have to own up to their behavior and make amends. But I believe I will still treat them decently rather than seek revenge. 

I'm in a situation right now where I hopefully will be leaving the environment of a past bully. If I manage to do that, it would be great. My mind has played over and over how I would break the news to this person and my instinct is to be very smug, arrogant and damaging. But that's not what my heart knows is right. If I end up leaving, I have to look at the person for who she is. ........... a scared, unhealthy individual who hasn't figured out how to get her needs met without hurting others. But she also has a good heart too and tries to make amends (albeit unsuccessfully, but she tries). I just don't think I can be bitter about it anymore. She makes her own misery and lives in it. There is nothing I can say or do that would change the past. I can just keep going forward. Will I trust her? Probably not. Will I give her a chance to change. Definitely. Especially if I end up not leaving. I already see change as she reacts to my change. 

Anyway, I'm rambling here. Thank you though, complusive, for sharing. I totally get where you're coming from. It's very hard to give someone a chance when you're still afraid.

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## takethebiscuit

For me, forgiveness is different from giving someone a second chance. There have been some deep hurts done to me over the years but keeping hold of those hurts does nothing for me. Keeping hold of them weighed me down. Quite literally in fact as I tend to put on weight when I'm sad or depressed. I can't always make up with people who've hurt me or people I've hurt. But I don't hold any grudges anymore and I've made an effort to make sure that no anger, hate or aggression comes from my side anymore. 

I don't have to like someone to forgive them or have that person back in my life. It's just that life is short so why have it full of anger, hurt, hate and pain? This is just a personal way of looking at things. And it took a long time and a lot of soul searching to come up with.

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## Chantellabella

> For me, forgiveness is different from giving someone a second chance. There have been some deep hurts done to me over the years but keeping hold of those hurts does nothing for me. Keeping hold of them weighed me down. Quite literally in fact as I tend to put on weight when I'm sad or depressed. I can't always make up with people who've hurt me or people I've hurt. But I don't hold any grudges anymore and I've made an effort to make sure that no anger, hate or aggression comes from my side anymore. 
> 
> I don't have to like someone to forgive them or have that person back in my life. It's just that life is short so why have it full of anger, hurt, hate and pain? This is just a personal way of looking at things. And it took a long time and a lot of soul searching to come up with.



I like what you said, "I don't have to like someone to forgive them or have that person back in my life." That's neat how you're able to separate those aspects. I've forgiven people, but don't want them in my life. I've often wondered if I truly forgave them if I no longer wanted to be around them. But I hear you saying that's possible. Thanks for sharing that. Great discussion! I'm really liking all the sharing of your thoughts on this.

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## Trendsetter

I'd rather just forgive and move on. Holding grudges do nothing but set me back, waste energy, and remain bitter. For whoever did me wrongly, I forgive them, no matter what they did. Being friends is a lot better than being  enemies.  :Hug:

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## takethebiscuit

> I like what you said, "I don't have to like someone to forgive them or have that person back in my life." That's neat how you're able to separate those aspects. I've forgiven people, but don't want them in my life. I've often wondered if I truly forgave them if I no longer wanted to be around them. But I hear you saying that's possible. Thanks for sharing that. Great discussion! I'm really liking all the sharing of your thoughts on this.



I think you can forgive and walk away. If someone is a bad influence in your life or generally toxic then it doesn't make sense to let them back in your life. That doesn't mean that you have to hold a grudge against them or anger and hate towards them. In that case, I think forgiveness is about drawing a line under things. 

Healing a relationship is, I feel, a different matter. Forgiveness does not suddenly reverse time or make everything okay again. Trust needs to be worked on, old hurts have to be healed in whatever ways they need to be healed. I think forgiveness starts a healing process but it doesn't finish it.

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## Chantellabella

> I think you can forgive and walk away. If someone is a bad influence in your life or generally toxic then it doesn't make sense to let them back in your life. That doesn't mean that you have to hold a grudge against them or anger and hate towards them. In that case, I think forgiveness is about drawing a line under things. 
> 
> Healing a relationship is, I feel, a different matter. Forgiveness does not suddenly reverse time or make everything okay again. Trust needs to be worked on, old hurts have to be healed in whatever ways they need to be healed. I think forgiveness starts a healing process but it doesn't finish it.



I hear you about trust needing to be worked on. Do you think there's some point where you can say, "Ok. I'm going to give you a second chance." Like is there some magic number in the trust timeline to do that? 

I know this all sounds like black and white thinking. I just feel bad when I don't give people a second chance, but there's a healthy point to do it and a not so healthy point. I know this is pretty subjective and depends on the people involved, level of mistrust, level of hurt. I'm just trying to discern what others think is that healthy point where they are willing to take the leap and give people another try.





> I'd rather just forgive and move on. Holding grudges do nothing but set me back, waste energy, and remain bitter. For whoever did me wrongly, I forgive them, no matter what they did. Being friends is a lot better than being  enemies.



I actually envy people like you, my friend. You have such a forgiving heart. I'm too much of a control freak to let people get off that easy. I feel they have to bend over backwards in the trust department before I'll give them a second chance. But at the same time, I'm expecting/hoping for that second chance. 

I guess I need to think about the saying, "do unto others...............huh?" Trendsetter I've known you for a year now and I have to say that you're very lucky. You have a forgiving heart and I can see why you deserve all the second chances you can get from others. I'm not so sure I deserve them after discussing this with you guys. I see where I have double standards.

Thank you guys for posting in this thread. It's really neat to see the views of everyone. I know having SA, we've come across our fair share of bullies and people who have hurt us. Especially if you have PTSD due to abuse. Anyone else struggle with this situation?

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## takethebiscuit

Okay, here goes:

If someone hurts me and shows clear evidence that they do actually care about me, I will more often than not meet them halfway. A genuine "sorry" goes a long way in my book too but I've learned a lot about guilt these past few months and I'm no less inclined to want another person to feel guilty 

So, I guess, the healthy point for me would be when I've seen evidence that the person cares about me and cares about making things up with me. Not that it all has to come from them. But that there is some sort of movement on their side to heal things.

Now, I am aware that this can be a bad strategy. For starters, it relies on other people having to do things before I feel I can heal hurts that are affecting me as well as affecting other people. And some people are just not going to be interested in healing things. People react to conflict in many different ways and some people just want to move on and not deal with it. 

That's why I took the decision to forgive people regardless of how they responded. If they want to heal the hurt that was caused then I'm happy to be an active party in that healing process. But I won't intrude into a person's life when I'm not wanted or demand that another person change how they feel. Pain from the past eats. That's all it does. It eats you and it eats your social groups and it eats your life if you let it. Each case is obviously different depending on what actually happened. But keeping hold of that stuff is like hurting yourself over and over again. Life kicked you in the stomach once or twice or whatever and so you keep remembering it, keep going over the bad memories, the anger etc and you keep kicking  yourself in the stomach.

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## Otherside

Okay, I've been thinking about this for a while. My answer is no, I'm not sure about it, really. I guess it kinda depends on what they did and why they did it.

The people who bullied me throughout primary...No. I want nothing to do with any of them. 

There's also someone I know, an apparent friend, who ditched me and pretended I didn't exist throughout most of last year when I had pretty bad bipolar disorder. Her reasoning? Her parents told her not to talk to me and she herself was having a [BEEP] time. She knew I was suicidal at the time, I also stupidly told her I OD'd. We supposedly agreed to be civil. We made up. I saw her today. She blanked me. But then I guess I didn't exactly talk to her either. But heck, SA. It's awkward enough with her, and I'm not sure I want to talk to her. Something did happen in December, something serious. Her acting as if I didn't exist was one of the factors that led to it in December. I'm not sure what I want to do, whether I'm supposed to forgive her for that.I don't ditch people just become I'm having a [BEEP] time and so are they. I had bipolar, I was suicidal and I was having a really [BEEP] time. She knew that.

I'm not sure if I can give her a second chance. Not after when happened in December.

But, I have said this before on another post, and I'll say it again. I'm not going to talk about what happened. Please don't ask me if you do talk to me. Please respect that.

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## pam

I guess I don't actually choose to forgive, but i _do_ choose to control my behavior and I don't try to get revenge, lol....I daydream abut it, but choose not to do it. 

Abusers never say they are sorry, at least not in my experience.

I've handed out second and millionth chances, but to people who didn't even ask for them! That was kind of stupid....

Maybe it all comes down to a person just simply saying "Will you give me a second chance?" Honestly, if anyone, and I mean anyone--even my a-hole family, ever said that to me, I'd definitely say yes.

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## TheDarkness

.

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## Misssy

One girl that I went to school with was some-what mean to me. Though I had experienced that kind of thing before much worse. 

She sort of apologized to me at one point, I think it's because she became best friends with one of my friends or it could be because her father shot her mother to death...and that made her grow up a bit. 

Not sure. I never really held a grudge against her to be honest though....it just goes to show that people know when they are doing something wrong.

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## Chieve

An abuser, unless he gets serious improvements and seriously changes, Nope. And if he have tried to change and we got together, the second he even attempts to attack me no.

Now about your situation

If I was your brother I would forgive you. But at the same time, if I try to put myself in your brothers shoes, since your older your kind of someone he would go to, and abandoning him is like a parent abandoning his child. I understand why you did it, and I think your situation is actually really complicated. 

I think you should try to get your brother to understand you side, or at least thinking it, and open his mind and think about it a little and have him put himself in your shoes....

At least try to compromise, because it seems like neither of you had a great upbringing and it seems like both of you have understandable feelings about your actions and thoughts...

I would just try my best to compromise.

I am always willing to give a second chance though.

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## Chantellabella

> Okay, here goes:
> 
> If someone hurts me and shows clear evidence that they do actually care about me, I will more often than not meet them halfway. A genuine "sorry" goes a long way in my book too but I've learned a lot about guilt these past few months and I'm no less inclined to want another person to feel guilty 
> 
> So, I guess, the healthy point for me would be when I've seen evidence that the person cares about me and cares about making things up with me. Not that it all has to come from them. But that there is some sort of movement on their side to heal things.
> 
> Now, I am aware that this can be a bad strategy. For starters, it relies on other people having to do things before I feel I can heal hurts that are affecting me as well as affecting other people. And some people are just not going to be interested in healing things. People react to conflict in many different ways and some people just want to move on and not deal with it. 
> 
> That's why I took the decision to forgive people regardless of how they responded. If they want to heal the hurt that was caused then I'm happy to be an active party in that healing process. But I won't intrude into a person's life when I'm not wanted or demand that another person change how they feel. Pain from the past eats. That's all it does. It eats you and it eats your social groups and it eats your life if you let it. Each case is obviously different depending on what actually happened. But keeping hold of that stuff is like hurting yourself over and over again. Life kicked you in the stomach once or twice or whatever and so you keep remembering it, keep going over the bad memories, the anger etc and you keep kicking  yourself in the stomach.



Thanks takethebiscuit, for writing all this. It makes a lot of sense. And yes, pain from the past or bitterness and hanging on can eat away at you because it's just replaying the scenario over and over when in reality the past can't be changed. It sounds like you have a healthy viewpoint here. Thanks for the comment.

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## Chantellabella

> Okay, I've been thinking about this for a while. My answer is no, I'm not sure about it, really. I guess it kinda depends on what they did and why they did it.
> 
> The people who bullied me throughout primary...No. I want nothing to do with any of them. 
> 
> There's also someone I know, an apparent friend, who ditched me and pretended I didn't exist throughout most of last year when I had pretty bad bipolar disorder. Her reasoning? Her parents told her not to talk to me and she herself was having a [BEEP] time. She knew I was suicidal at the time, I also stupidly told her I OD'd. We supposedly agreed to be civil. We made up. I saw her today. She blanked me. But then I guess I didn't exactly talk to her either. But heck, SA. It's awkward enough with her, and I'm not sure I want to talk to her. Something did happen in December, something serious. Her acting as if I didn't exist was one of the factors that led to it in December. I'm not sure what I want to do, whether I'm supposed to forgive her for that.I don't ditch people just become I'm having a [BEEP] time and so are they. I had bipolar, I was suicidal and I was having a really [BEEP] time. She knew that.
> 
> I'm not sure if I can give her a second chance. Not after when happened in December.
> 
> But, I have said this before on another post, and I'll say it again. I'm not going to talk about what happened. Please don't ask me if you do talk to me. Please respect that.



I'm sorry that happened to you Otherside. It sounds like it's still raw and hurts. It takes me a long time to process the hurt when somebody does something. That second chance I was talking about was after years or decades of getting over the hurt and anger.

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## Chantellabella

> I guess I don't actually choose to forgive, but i _do_ choose to control my behavior and I don't try to get revenge, lol....I daydream abut it, but choose not to do it. 
> 
> Abusers never say they are sorry, at least not in my experience.
> 
> I've handed out second and millionth chances, but to people who didn't even ask for them! That was kind of stupid....
> 
> Maybe it all comes down to a person just simply saying "Will you give me a second chance?" Honestly, if anyone, and I mean anyone--even my a-hole family, ever said that to me, I'd definitely say yes.



Unfortunately that seems to be the case...............that people who hurt others don't seem to know they should apologize and therefore we don't get that much needed "I'm sorry." That would go a long way, huh? I know in my past, once I got a sincere apology, no matter what the degree of hurt was, it was easier to forgive and give a second chance. I've had to learn though to even forgive when I know I'll never get an apology. That's the hardest thing to do and I stink at that.

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## Chantellabella

> Usually i`m not too big on forgiveness, myself, nor do I really excpect it from others. But if that does somehow happens its great. As for forgiving abusers, though, I don`t think I could do that. Even if that person has truly changed, it doesn't make up for what they have done. Cliches and good intentions are great and all, and i`m sure that giving that person my "approval" or forgiveness would grant me the illusion that I was the bigger man. But, all and all, I don`t like to lie. An ex abuser or whatnot is not someone I would like to befriend, as they were probably not really my friend to begin with. If they wanna change and develop as a person that's great for them. But I aint their shrink. That`s about that.
> 
> So do I believe a taunter can change? of course. Yes. But only if they put their entire being into it.
> Though in most cases, change is something that can takes years, and how we are at our core (some of our repetitive nature) will always play a part in everything we do.
> For example. You and your brother. Despite your best intentions, he can`t forgive you. If the circumstances are bad enough, the how and why has all but become irrelevant.
> In his eyes, you abandoned him. Insulted him. Betrayed his trust. All he sees in the one person he wanted to believe in, go away time and time again. Probably when he thought that he needed you the most.
> 
> The reality of the situation of course is somewhat different. Nothing in life is ever really black and white, and you probably did what you had to do to survive. Which is understandable. But in his eyes, everything you say is probably something that he considers as an insult. I know that I should tell you something in the line of "don`t give up on him!", but, to be honest, i`m not an optimist. I don`t think that whats happening between you is ever really going to change. True, as the years go by, things may appear to settle. After all, the busier we are, the less time we have to dwell on things. But some things will stay with us forever. And I believe that there is in fact a part in him that knows that you didn't mean to hurt him, and that you were young. He probably knows that his pain is now irrational, and that him thinking about you as if you were more then just a sister, was a mistake. I`m sure he knows that. After all, he`s not a little boy anymore. He`s a grown man. But... maybe there`s a part in him that needs to be upset with you. Maybe that`s the only way for him to remember you as his big sister. Maybe he`s afraid to realize that, without resenting you, he may have to face an even more terrifying truth about himself. Maybe he`s afraid that, even if he could put all this bad blood behind him, it wont change the fact that doesn't know you anymore. I dunno anything real about this situation apart from what your willing to share here, but I do know that you cant be upset with someone for years, without liking or loving something about them. Maybe he afraid to realize that blood truly is thicker then water. Maybe a part in him needs something symbolic, maybe he needs a villain.
> 
> So to answer your final question. People are people, and no two are alike. Depends on the person. Not everyone can change, and sometimes even a positive change can develop into a different type of destructive behavior. You never know, until you know. Even a changed person doesn't really get "born again", he simply adjusts his attitude. But as for faith. That I believe is something which can truly change at any given day. I hope you enjoyed my rely and can forgive my somewhat direct input on your situation. You guys are way older then me, and i`m sure that you are much wiser then I am. You know whats best for you, better then anyone here.



Thanks for commenting. You speak and have sparked me to do some serious thinking about what I should do with my brother. Thanks for your advice. I think I'm going to send him a letter apologizing one more time and if he chooses not to give me a second chance, then it's time to let him go in my heart. He may one day come around, but I have to let go of the guilt. At some point, it's no longer my fault if he refuses to come around.

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## Chantellabella

> One girl that I went to school with was some-what mean to me. Though I had experienced that kind of thing before much worse. 
> 
> She sort of apologized to me at one point, I think it's because she became best friends with one of my friends or it could be because her father shot her mother to death...and that made her grow up a bit. 
> 
> Not sure. I never really held a grudge against her to be honest though....it just goes to show that people know when they are doing something wrong.



I totally agree that some people are aware of their behavior. I'm wondering if those are the ones who can eventually change. It's the ones who are unaware that they've done anything wrong and who fight for their right to be right. Those are the hardest to give a second chance to in my case.

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## Chantellabella

> An abuser, unless he gets serious improvements and seriously changes, Nope. And if he have tried to change and we got together, the second he even attempts to attack me no.
> 
> Now about your situation
> 
> If I was your brother I would forgive you. But at the same time, if I try to put myself in your brothers shoes, since your older your kind of someone he would go to, and abandoning him is like a parent abandoning his child. I understand why you did it, and I think your situation is actually really complicated. 
> 
> I think you should try to get your brother to understand you side, or at least thinking it, and open his mind and think about it a little and have him put himself in your shoes....
> 
> At least try to compromise, because it seems like neither of you had a great upbringing and it seems like both of you have understandable feelings about your actions and thoughts...
> ...



I agree that abusers are really a high risk for second chances. It's hard to tell if they are truly reformed. I think it's wise to be leery and guard your safety. And your comment of neither of us having a great upbringing sparked some thought in me. I started thinking about how horrible it had to have been for him. Not knowing where I was for 3 years had to eat him alive. He was only 10 when I left. Then to top that, he became the scapegoat when I left. Maybe we both just need to heal before any true relationship can be built. I need to be patient. it's just very hard to know that so many years are being wasted. Thanks for offering your comments.

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## WintersTale

Sometimes I really can't give someone a second chance, if they have hurt me enough. 

I know this is bad. I've made plenty of mistakes myself, and I'm not perfect, so I'd hope that people would give me a second chance. But sometimes it is just impossible.

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