# Outside the Box > Philosophy and Debate >  >  How do you know if someones actually suicidal, or if they're just attention seeking?

## Otherside

So bear with me. I'm sure there's been a gazillion posts on this.

So this morning I saw a post asking people whether "throwing himself in front of a lorry" would definitaly kill him or not, with him going on and on about how suicide was the only option. I don't wanna say much about whether he was serious or not, he's posted a couple of times before about being unemployed, or benefits, not doing much all day...so maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. To be honest, whether it was serious or not, the whole thread wa sick-people agreeing with him that it would, or advising him on other ways that would definatley end it all.

I don't mean to be harsh or anything, I know some of the people may well be suicidal and just looking for help or reassurance. I hate the phrase "a cry for help" but I suppose that's what it is. But there's others who say they're suicidal to get attention. I've seen it all the time. People who post that they don't see the point of living constantly and constantly on Facebook. Honestly, these posts make me sick. It's not that I can't handle the discussion of suicide...I can, and if anyone needed support or anything, I'd be more than willing to give it. It's just that "Oh my god, my life sucks, I'm gonna go kill myself now" seems an okay thing to say in some peoples mind, and isn't at all sick at all. 

I know starting a thread saying you're suicidal isn't allowed on here, and I know why and think it's the right thing, really. I've been on various places lately, a lot of them having the "no discussion of suicide methods" rule, even some of the darkest mental health forums in which there's a lot of people on there who have attempted. I just don't get it...why do a lot of people think it's okay to announce how suicidal they are in that way for attention seeking purposes?

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## L

I read that post this morning and felt the need to report it. Not for what he was saying but the way people responded was sick. I can understand your question though about it is a cry for help or what, I don't know - Personally and feel free to fight me on it but would you post that kind of post if you were? where you know a lot of people don't give a crap and will respond with hateful comments, where you have a number of threads closed for talking about the same context being told you can post it on your blog but not as a thread.

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## Chopin12

I think talking about it can definitely be a sign that it may happen. It doesnt mean they will for sure, as it could just be a plea for attention or someone to talk to. But it could very well be for real, there's no sure way to tell.

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## Otherside

> I read that post this morning and felt the need to report it. Not for what he was saying but the way people responded was sick. I can understand your question though about it is a cry for help or what, I don't know - Personally and feel free to fight me on it but would you post that kind of post if you were? where you know a lot of people don't give a crap and will respond with hateful comments, where you have a number of threads closed for talking about the same context being told you can post it on your blog but not as a thread.



I saw that post too and it kinda might be sick as I well, I reported it too. I'm not gonna fight you, I just literally have no idea how I'm supposed to respond to some of these people. May he was suicidal, maybe not. He's made a lot of posts lately and it could be that he was. I just honestly don't know what to think of these posts...I generally don't respond cos heck, I don't wanna get drawn into a million people telling me "he's trolling" "attention seeking" so on so on. I've wondered that sometimes, but what if they're not?





> I think talking about it can definitely be a sign that it may happen. It doesn't mean they will for sure, as it could just be a plea for attention or someone to talk to. But it could very well be for real, there's no sure way to tell.



Yer, I don't buy the whole "people who are really suicidal don't talk to people about it" thing. I'm sure a lot of them do try and get help before they do it. I know it probably doesn't mean they will for sure...a lot of people with depression can feel suicidal at times but they don't make an attempt. It's hard to kill yourself, even if you want to. 

It's completely impossible to tell though, definatley online. I don't know this guy, never met him, probably never will, and we've never spoke. Even if we had, out only contact would have been online, and there really is absolutley no way to tell when I'm talking to someone online.

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## Chopin12

I agree. If someone wants to do it, they definitely want to talk about it. This is your life we're talking about it. You're going to give it up without even talking to someone first, yeah right. Ive never had the guts to do it sober, but there were plenty of times where i wanted to suicide while drunk, and talking to someone about it would have been very appealing. And besides that, not everyone is the same way. I hate the new psychological paradigm that tries to lump everyone's actions into one category.

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## Otherside

> I agree. If someone wants to do it, they definitely want to talk about it. This is your life we're talking about it. You're going to give it up without even talking to someone first, yeah right. Ive never had the guts to do it sober, but there were plenty of times where i wanted to suicide while drunk, and talking to someone about it would have been very appealing. And besides that, not everyone is the same way. I hate the new psychological paradigm that tries to lump everyone's actions into one category.



Like you said, it takes guts to kill yourself even if you want to. Survival instinct really is underrated. It's very very rarely that someone commits suicide and hasn't mentioned it at anytime. Announcing plans...well, if they're serious about it then maybe they'll give that hidden, but chances are, they'll have tried to get help from pdocs/therapist before hand. But not everyone, I suppose. Everyone is different.

That said, I still can see why these threads aren't allowed on here or elsewhere and still agree with it. We're never gonna know who's really, seriously suicidal and who isn't, and we'll get a spilt between people who post "Attention seeker" and those who try to help. It's all online, like I said, we don't really know a lot of people on the forums face to face and we've never really met them...who are we to say what's really and what's not?

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## Tinkerbell

Does it matter if it attention seeking or a true cry for help.  Even the boy who cried wolf was eventually eaten by said wolf.  Why not err on the side of caution and compassion and advise that he seek professional/spiritual help.  The first time I called for a mental health appointment the first question I was asked - Do you want to hurt yourself or anyone else.  I would not want on my conscience that I gave a flip response and then find out the person went through with it, if I know the person or not.

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## WintersTale

Sometimes it is hard to really tell.

I have a friend who called me once in the middle of the night, said she was going to kill herself, then hung up the phone...and wouldn't answer it for 45 mins. I was panicking, and didn't know what to do.

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## Tinkerbell

I work in social services and we are trained to treat every suicidal threat/comment as credible and to act on it, we are mandated reporters.  If I don't I will lose my job, be put on a registry and will not be eligible to work in the field again.  The best advice is to get them in touch with a suicide help line, they are trained to deal with these type of situations.

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## WineKitty

Most people who are serious about doing it wont say a word.  There might be subtle clues, perhaps even a note left, but someone who wants to succeed will just do it.

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## Tinkerbell

According to the CDC, NIMH and NAMI, 80% of people who complete suicide told at least one other person that they were thinking about it;if they have tried suicide once there is usually another attempt - typically within 3 months; with each attempt a personâs chance of completing suicide increases; the vast majority of people who are suicidal do not want to die, they are in pain and want the pain to stop; there are almost always warning signs.  Not all suicide deaths are preventable, but a vast majority of people can be helped.  The sources mentioned are reliable, credible and not given to hyperbole.

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## kc1895

:shake:  I don't like this topic. SO triggering!

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## Sadok

If he is actually suicidal he won't whine about it to anyone because the answers that everyone will give him are so predictable,plus he has already made his mind.Attention seekers , tend to post it on forums and tell their friends.

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## Antidote

> According to the CDC, NIMH and NAMI, 80% of people who complete suicide told at least one other person that they were thinking about it;if they have tried suicide once there is usually another attempt - typically within 3 months; with each attempt a personâs chance of completing suicide increases; the vast majority of people who are suicidal do not want to die, they are in pain and want the pain to stop; there are almost always warning signs.  Not all suicide deaths are preventable, but a vast majority of people can be helped.  The sources mentioned are reliable, credible and not given to hyperbole.



That was interesting information, thanks. 
When it comes to people who threaten suicide and appear to be lapping up the attention, I don't doubt that they're still in some kind of distress, or have some other serious mental health problems. A lot are impulsive, with poor mood regulation and don't think twice about the consequences of making halfhearted suicide threats. They may underestimate the impact this has on other people because they feel inconsequential anyway. I used to do this to some extent. Not post suicide threats, but I'd make morose posts (years ago), which in a way was actually part of my warped sense of humour. But it took me a while to get that others were a little concerned by this. I honestly thought my posts would go unnoticed, but I stopped eventually when I realised they weren't always. Beside this though, if someone is claiming they're suicidal, even if it seems impulsive and melodramatic, it needs to be taken seriously. Some people do commit suicide on impulse.

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## Otherside

Yeah this probably wasn't the best thread for me to start on here, and it still seems to be pretty active. For the record, Id never tell anyone theyre attention seeking. Probably come across as a cold [BEEP] on this thread, but I'm really not. Still that thread I saw whenever it was on SAS made me sick. If someone is suicidal, how is telling them which method has the most chance of success gonna help? That guy could have been seriously suicidal.

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## Tinkerbell

It is very hard for people who are dealing with their own issues to always think outside themselves and be compassionate.  I don't mind this type of thread, sometimes it is important to put myths to bed and deal with facts.   Knowing what to do beforehand will help you go into automatic mode if you ever have to help with someone who has threatened/talked about suicide.   :Hug: to all, I have not seen a person on this site that would not help.

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## TheDarkness

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## Tinkerbell

^ :Agreed:   Well said

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## Otherside

> This is a tricky and complicated subject (possibly even triggering) as no one can actually answer that question, as it revolves purely around an assumption of which all possible facts (their negative behavior patterns, medical history, previous attempts, ongoing private disclosures about the subject, third party testimony's, a person`s public display of what bothering them etc etc) can only serve as a temporary volatile mean for something that only the person in question can truly know where he/she stands. Meaning, even if you think that something is full of S.... , everything is always 50, 50. And if you consider the fact that psychiatry is not as exact science, no one in this world can really tell which person is gonna end up being just another statistic, and which person is just saying the what comes to their mind.
> 
> In conclusion. I too don`t like it when I see people say "their calling out for attention!" or "look at all that drama!". I find such condescending approaches and philosophy`s as being very disrespectful, and rather ignorant. This may seem like common sense to many of us, but, sadly, most people gravely underestimate the emotional strain and hardships that can go on inside a person`s head when they reach the point where they no longer wish to exist. People don`t always understand how much being suicidal is actually quite similar to having a person locked up inside a dark room, having only their thoughts as company. A "cage of contradictions". How come? well, like most people plagued by depression, they wanna talk, but only with people that will understand them. However. They also know that there is a subtle line between someone that wants to help them, and between someone that just takes pity on them. Add to that the emotional vulnerability and mental strain cause on that persons ego, their need for emotional comfort and familiarity, and what you have there is a person that doesn't know where to turn too. Not to mention, that its basically taboo to even talk about the subject, being as smart person would know that they could get reported. So if that`s not gonna mess someone up in their head, then what will? and, no, i`m not speaking from experience. I`m not suicidal. I do however know a thing or two about living in isolation and having no were to turn too. I know that its not easy to deal with. It takes a lot of adjusting. Same thing with everything.



Yeah, I have to agree with that. As I said, probably said this before but being an anxious-paranoid person here, and I'd never say to anyone "Attemtion seeker" who said they were suicidal. I'd probably never publish that on this site, but that's generally just me, and I can at times not really be that open about what's going on in life, online as well as in IRL. I'm also not so great with emotion like that, so I sometimes struggle with people saying things like that...not because I have a problem with it or something, but...it's just complicated, too much emotion just makes me exhausted sometimes. And I can struggle at times on the other site with threads like this, because I've tried to help and reply and all, and been told "He's just attention seeking, trolling. don't feed the troll" or I've had the OP saying that he's too depressed to do anything, I don't understand, nobody understands him, his life is so [BEEP] he hates it all, and he hates me too for trying to help and obviously I said the wrong thing, and I just get a load of abuse spurted out at me at times, and yeah, I know it's online and I shouldn't take it personally...but at time, I was signed off sick by my doc from college, I_ had_ actually just made a suicide attempt (I don't talk about it, so please don't ask *OR* ever mention it again if you talk to me.), I was beginning to attend hospital appointments and starting new meds for my illness. I wasn't really doing much with my life, and I was also physically ill with my right ear once again playing up, and I was worried it was ruptured again. It wasn't very nice, and I kinda did take it personally and it did really make me feel like shit, and now I'm wary of really replying to those kinds of threads over there. I get the impression that I come across as confident and totally fine over there. Guess it's kinda hard to tell online, but nothing is further from the truth. And without sounding like an uncaring bitch, I also don't believe that mental illness such as depression, however [BEEP] a time you're having, makes it okay for you to spurt out abuse like that, especially on a mental health forum where other people could be suicidal.

That said, I know a quite a few of you on here and I've seen you around. Even if I didn't know you, I probably would try and help if someone put up a suicide thread. I don't think theres many people on here that'd spurt out abuse when I try and help. This probably is a triggering topic, and I didn't really think about it at the time when I posted it. So I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

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## compulsive

I cant understand why seeking attention has in society made out to be a bad thing. Someone can seek attention for "socially acceptable" things but when someone is suicidal or severely depressed its suddenly such a bad thing? If someone is suicidal and tells someone, they are an attention seeker. So what? If they hide away from people they get criticized for that too. 

'I dont understand why people want to commit suicide' isn't really good enough. If I'm expected to sympathize with  "socially acceptable" problems I dont understand, then they should sympathize with mental illness. Otherwise they are one hell of a hypocrite.

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## TheDarkness

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## sanspants

> I work in social services and we are trained to treat every suicidal threat/comment as credible and to act on it, we are mandated reporters.  If I don't I will lose my job, be put on a registry and will not be eligible to work in the field again.  The best advice is to get them in touch with a suicide help line, they are trained to deal with these type of situations.




I'm that guy, actually. The suicide-support person on the phone and in the ER as well as on the occasional standoff. Most are pretty predictable but you just never know for sure. I take most everyone seriously, but I also talk to them in an ordinary tone so they can feel free to share. It's important to let them know that they're your priority because they're a person, not because you view them as a "risk." The vast, vast majority of what we see called "suicide attempts" in the ER are cries for help, and there are people who resent working with that. I don't mind...I figure, whoever does it was out of options to communicate just how they felt, and so they did with actions what they couldn't do with words.

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## Tinkerbell

> I'm that guy, actually. The suicide-support person on the phone and in the ER as well as on the occasional standoff. Most are pretty predictable but you just never know for sure. I take most everyone seriously, but I also talk to them in an ordinary tone so they can feel free to share. It's important to let them know that they're your priority because they're a person, not because you view them as a "risk." The vast, vast majority of what we see called "suicide attempts" in the ER are cries for help, and there are people who resent working with that. I don't mind...I figure, whoever does it was out of options to communicate just how they felt, and so they did with actions what they couldn't do with words.



Kudos to you, I don't work on the acute crisis side of this but do have friends that are intake people for crisis centers.  I agree with you a cry for help is a cry for help however they try to get it across.

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## Otherside

> Kudos to you, I don't work on the acute crisis side of this but do have friends that are intake people for crisis centers.  I agree with you a cry for help is a cry for help however they try to get it across.



I hate the term "a cry for help" but that's only because I've had people ask me if what I did was a cry for help in a way that does suggest attention seeking. I'm gonna see if I can change the title of this thread. I regret typing that now like I did. I'm going to ask that if anyone wants to continue 

This thread keeps getting brought up though. A lots changed though since I started the thread and now. I'm not going to reply to this anymore, and maybe I have no right to do this, but I'm going to ask that if anyone does want to continue this, that they leave me out of it. Or is it possible I can get this thread locked? I really don't want this thread to keep cropping up. I really do regret making this now.

Really. Maybe I come across as a cold [BEEP] in this thread, and people have said that in real life. But reality, that's not the case.

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## Tinkerbell

Since you have quoted me, otherside, I can only assume that something I said was an affront to you.  I want you to know that nothing I posted was directed at you or anything you posted in any way.  I can understand that this is a very personal issue for and I respect that, and am truly sorry for anything that I posted that was thoughtless on my part caused you any pain.

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## meeps

> I hate the term "a cry for help" but that's only because I've had people ask me if what I did was a cry for help in a way that does suggest attention seeking.



image is relevant:

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## Noca

I think if someone exhibits reckless or impulsive behavior, or they have caused physical harm to themselves or others in the past, they are a higher risk to actually follow through with suicide.

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