# Outside the Box > Philosophy and Debate >  >  Idiots

## Cuchculan

Bet that got the whole 3 people who still use the forum clicking into this topic. But seriously. Let us talk about idiots. I will use bad weather for an example. Few year back we had winds of up to 160kmh. Warning to stay indoors unless you really badly had to go out. What happens? We had a woman who went swimming in the sea. An idiot. She said she swam every day of the year, no matter what the weather was like. She had to be recused as the water was too much for her. But no only did she put her own life at risk. Those of the emergency services too. I remember saying they should bill her for the cost of the rescue operation. Helicopter. Fire crew. Ambulance. Police. Add it all up. 

Same day we had those kite surfers. Two of them got carried away in the wind. Landed a good distance away from where they went up. Idiots. Had to be rescued too. Why do people do such stupid things? Would that woman not have been able to miss one single day swimming? Kite surfers not thought it a bit too windy and dangerous.

But we also have people who smash things up for no reason at all. Bus shelters. No reason to do it. Just more idiots. Anything nice appears in an area and they have to wreck it. I guess I just don't like idiots. People who do stupid things.

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## CloudMaker

Darwin in action IMO

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## Otherside

We have yet another storm like that this weekend, and I gurantee you there will be a couple of drunk idiots down on the beach hoping they get hit by a massive wave. 

People just dont take them seriously here.

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## Cuchculan

Myself and a friend once went to a beach. Far from a warm day. Windy and you could tell it was going to rain. Pitch black. I looked and said ' Is that a woman in the water '. Thought I was seeing things at first. It was a woman having a swim. We did get talking to her. Said she swam every day. This was one freezing cold day. Water was choppy. I can understand doing that if the weather is ok. 

As for people going out during storms? Likes on social media. Last storm we saw the video of the woman and her young kids running to avoid a massive wave. I would have no problem with that woman going alone. She is meant to be the grown up. But taken her young kids with her? That is just stupid.

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## Ironman

You'll have those.
I can't really say anything; I would go and get one of my runs in during an ice storm.  I was lucky I didn't hurt myself.  I take a more street route during winter storms because the roads are plowed.  Along the route, I would have passed an apartment complex.  I saw police there!  I was like - Oh $#!7, I could get pulled over for running the streets in an ice storm.  I had to backtrack to avoid them  :: .

I made it home, and was like, never again.  I could have blown out a knee if I had slipped on ice as there was a lot of it.
At the two mile mark - I turn around and head back down a road I ran for a mile.  As I was getting ready to turn, I saw a car completely miss stopping at a red light and slid right through the intersection -

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## HypnoticTrance

The idiots currently on my shitlist are the ones buying out all the damn toilet paper and disinfectant wipes.

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## sunrise

Resurrecting this thread in honor of the supreme idiot that is the president of the U.S. of A, the leader of our country and it's biggest threat.  I don't know if we can survive another 2 weeks of this.

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## Cuchculan

Next he'll have the KKk on the streets. To a person living outside of the US of A it makes for interesting viewing. As you wait for his next move. Even after he is out of the white house I am sure he will continue on.

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## Otherside

> To a person living outside of the US of A it makes for interesting viewing.



I'll second that, it's the kind of thing you'd expect to see happening in Belarus. Seeing it happen over in the US is...very strange and not something we ever thought we'd see. 

Was watching the debate on when it happened. Was kind of astounding and shocking how quickly it went from just protestors to the Capitol being stormed.

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## CloudMaker

> Next he'll have the KKk on the streets. To a person living outside of the US of A it makes for interesting viewing. As you wait for his next move. Even after he is out of the white house I am sure he will continue on.



LOL the KKK was neutered by spooks a long time ago. Doubt they’ll ever come back in any meaningful way

The people at the capitol were PATRIOTS who wanted a FAIR election that the democrats STOLE. They rightfully took over the capitol which is owned by the PEOPLE and yet didn’t burn anything down or kill anyone. The only person who died was a woman shot by the police themselves!!

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## Cuchculan

When you look around the world at countries who never accept election results you think mainly of third / second world countries. Small places. Some might have a dictator who refuses to go. You don't expect it from the so called biggest and most powerful country in the world. I can't wait to watch Biden been sworn in. More just for the whole show. Fact that the outgoing president has to be there and is meant to be nice about things. That should be funny.

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## CloudMaker

I’ve lived in California for over 30 years now and it has felt like a third world country for at least the past 20 of them IMO

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## Cuchculan

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## sunrise

You got that right, there's only one place he belongs - in a padded cell.  A police officer is now dead because of this tyrant.  This is another day that will live in infamy.

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## Cuchculan

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## Ironman

> Next he'll have the KKk on the streets. To a person living outside of the US of A it makes for interesting viewing. As you wait for his next move. Even after he is out of the white house I am sure he will continue on.



If he does continue on, he won't be the first.  Barack Obama was the first.  Generally, in our country, once a President leaves office, he stays out of the limelight except for big events.  
Obama just kept going - the refusal to allow Bush to help with the initial stages of the Great Recession and the surveillance of Trump (which was really kind of a nasty thing to do), then labeling him a Russian puppet for four years when he never had much of any correspondence with anyone there.  He was called racist and sexist over immigration and employment.  It never ended.

Personally, I didn't think Trump had any ties to Russia simply because he graduated high school the same year as my father - 1964.  That 1963-1964 year was tragic in that we lost a President in a horrible way.  Why would someone collude with a country that hurt us so bad that year especially when their leader wants "Mother Russia" to return to Communism?  That would be like saying I colluded with al-Qaeda.  I graduated in 1993 - the year the World Trade Center was first bombed (1500 people injured with smoke inhalation and nobody died!).  Hell no, terrorism is demented.





> I'll second that, it's the kind of thing you'd expect to see happening in Belarus. Seeing it happen over in the US is...very strange and not something we ever thought we'd see. 
> 
> Was watching the debate on when it happened. Was kind of astounding and shocking how quickly it went from just protestors to the Capitol being stormed.



I completely missed it.  I was working and had purposely turned the television off.  I heard President Trump at the rally on my phone and turned everything off when he said they were going to the Capitol.  I honestly thought he was going over there with him.  I only found out about it when I received a Breaking News email at work that something had happened. 





> When you look around the world at countries who never accept election results you think mainly of third / second world countries. Small places. Some might have a dictator who refuses to go. You don't expect it from the so called biggest and most powerful country in the world. I can't wait to watch Biden been sworn in. More just for the whole show. Fact that the outgoing president has to be there and is meant to be nice about things. That should be funny.



President Trump knows there is a two term (eight year) max.  That's it - he knows it; we know it.  To vote somebody out simply because one didn't like his tweets and demeanor is a bit lightweight to be honest.  He accomplished more in four years than most do in eight, and the man had a proverbial arm tied around his back by our own Government who feared he would never leave office and were intimidated by him.  He actually made our Congress look really bad (performance-wise) with all he was able to accomplish.





> LOL the KKK was neutered by spooks a long time ago. Doubt they’ll ever come back in any meaningful way
> 
> The people at the capitol were PATRIOTS who wanted a FAIR election that the democrats STOLE. They rightfully took over the capitol which is owned by the PEOPLE and yet didn’t burn anything down or kill anyone. The only person who died was a woman shot by the police themselves!!



To our Europeans, this was a VERY ugly election made worse by the Corona.  Part of me wants to throw in the phrase "Chinese bioterrorism", but it's a side note, because it did have an impact. The right felt that the Government had been after Trump this whole time and people felt like this was a fraudulent election to get him out of office - motive and opportunity. 

Basically, in six states that led to Wednesday's contested election (which has happened three times since 2000 - my state was the target in January 2005!), rules of varying degrees rules were changed in the election and the legality of those changes was in question because the Governors apparently made the changes (just like the lockdown orders!) when it was supposed to be the legislatures under them.

Focus was put on mail-in ballots because people were afraid of catching the Corona at the voting booth.  Well, the mail-in "absentee" ballots are supposed to require a registration of some kind, usually picture ID and signature match.  That was removed in some states.  Other states apparently just sent out ballots without the requirements at all, which is not good because people who are not supposed to vote might be getting ballots.  There were cases where a person went to the polling booth and were told they already voted, when they didn't! So...….far more mail in ballots than normal and all kinds of problems are possible.  Very different than other elections.

Then, there was the deadline for receiving ballots - generally Election Day 8pm is the deadline for all ballots (first Tuesday in November).  One state pushed theirs to Friday - three days later - at the last minute.  Another state apparently told there workers to backdate the ballots.  If they were received on Wednesday, make them look like Tuesday as if they made it on time.  Then, there was the "cured ballot" issue where a ballot is disqualified and another one issued if a mistake is made (this actually happened to me in my first election).  There was something off about that.

Then, there was the counting.  The six states simultaneously shut down counting and workers were told to go home (normally counting does not stop). Apparently, boxes of ballots appeared in a few of the six states and ballots were still counting....and returning workers caught it going on.  Workers putting the same ballot in multiple times, monitors being kicked out to applause.  The tabulation machines flipping votes, miscalculating or being hacked.  Financial ties of the machines. etc.

…..and then they tell Trump that questions were raised too late, judges didn't want to hear anything.  He actually said in the spring that mailin voting would be ripe for fraud, but he was dismissed or worse be blamed for interfering in the election.

All of that - and I made the decision to vote in person anyway.  I didn't get the Corona.  They sanitized all the time!  There was no problem!  Uh, do I have anxiety?  :: 

The rally was for support of the President when they felt like he wasn't being heard at all.  The event was announced ahead of time, which means anyone can join in.  
So to CloudMaker's point - they didn't feel it was a fair election and it was meant just to get rid of the President for someone who didn't campaign all that much who had a 47-year history of politics.
The whole election process this time was an embarrassment and nobody wanted to admit it - the left simply because they "won" and the right thinking every election is perfect.  Well, this one wasn't no matter how you slice it.

The mob thing in Congress - it's happened before, but is rare.  Uncalled for, but definitely not the President's fault.  When I heard him speak before it, I thought he was going to be there with him.  There were nefarious people in that mob - actual Trump supporters just wanted the law to be followed.  I feel really bed for the people who lost their lives, but it's a political stunt to blame it on the President.  People have their own will.  Trump wanted peace.  That guy in the SPeaker of the House's office was completely inappropriate.  You gotta have respect for the office.

But you can feel the tension in these latest posts on our side of the pond - it's an unsettling feeling.  Anxiety + Corona = a MESS.

I am going to remove the post, but it's a bit more into what we were dealing with on top of the lockdowns and health issues.

**On a happier note, my mother receives the first vaccine today. She is the only blood parent I have left and she is 73.

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## Cuchculan

And do you not think how a President acts reflects on a whole country? I did say, by way of running the country, he didn't do much wrong at all. That was in a post a few months back. But he conducts himself in a certain way that comes across as rude and arrogant. Some of the things he might come out with. Never listened to those around him. The PR people. Thus he was hated. If people hate you they are not going to vote for you. Might be a bad reason to vote a person out of office. But people always like to see the big names fall from power. 

From what I was reading before the election, if they have of postponed the election due to the pandemic, the person in power stays in power. Did Trump think he was so popular and refuse to go down that road? Not sure about calling elections off. Good thing or bad thing. It could have been done though. He might have got another year out of it before people could vote in the normal way. Voting by post was always going to be silly. I will admit to that one. Not sure I have ever heard of it done before. Not sure if will ever be done again either. 

As for Biden? He will have it tough. Not exactly going to have a country in tip top economic shape. America will be hit like all other countries. Chances are he will fall out of favour rather quickly. He will have to make some tough calls. Ones the public won't like at all. 

Honesly American politics does nor effect me at all. I am just looking in from the outside. Nothing more.

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## Ironman

> And do you not think how a President acts reflects on a whole country? I did say, by way of running the country, he didn't do much wrong at all. That was in a post a few months back. But he conducts himself in a certain way that comes across as rude and arrogant. Some of the things he might come out with. Never listened to those around him. The PR people. Thus he was hated. If people hate you they are not going to vote for you. Might be a bad reason to vote a person out of office. But people always like to see the big names fall from power. 
> 
> From what I was reading before the election, if they have of postponed the election due to the pandemic, the person in power stays in power. Did Trump think he was so popular and refuse to go down that road? Not sure about calling elections off. Good thing or bad thing. It could have been done though. He might have got another year out of it before people could vote in the normal way. Voting by post was always going to be silly. I will admit to that one. Not sure I have ever heard of it done before. Not sure if will ever be done again either. 
> 
> As for Biden? He will have it tough. Not exactly going to have a country in tip top economic shape. America will be hit like all other countries. Chances are he will fall out of favour rather quickly. He will have to make some tough calls. Ones the public won't like at all. 
> 
> Honesly American politics does nor effect me at all. I am just looking in from the outside. Nothing more.



He had to stand up to globalism.  It does nobody any good.  Britain had Winston Churchill!  It's nothing new!

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## CloudMaker

> He had to stand up to globalism.  It does nobody any good.  Britain had Winston Churchill!  It's nothing new!



It does the corporations plenty of good! They love using child labor and sweatshops in other countries to get around local laws!!

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## CloudMaker

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## sunrise

Trump did a lot of damage to the US.  You can't separate his crass, deranged behavior from his judgement and he's made a lot of terrible decisions, starting with the people he surrounded himself with and his cabinet choices, not to mention exhorting a mob to storm the capitol.  His policies were created to enrich himself or his cronies.  His warped definition of globalism neatly fits into his narcisstic point of view and plays into Russian interests.  Whatever weirdness there is between him and Putin, hopefully the real truth of why that is will eventually come out, maybe when he gets prosecuted and we can finally see his tax returns.

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## Ironman

> It does the corporations plenty of good! They love using child labor and sweatshops in other countries to get around local laws!!



I posted about this one.  This is another impact of globalism.  

I have been working for my company 16 1/2 years as an employee.  I worked for the same "company" as a contractor 2000 to 2002.  Back then, it was specifically an American company purchased by an even bigger American company.  When I returned in 2004,  That bigger company had sold it to a trio of investment firms (one owned by Mitt Romney *raspberries!*.  Well, a big foreign company bought s the day my father died of a heart attack.  January 22, 2007 - you don't forget a day like that!  We had FOUR name changes in seven years!  Elizabeth Taylor and Zsa Zsa Gabor didn't go through four marriages that fast!  Since then, this global company has bought seven or eight other companies.  

**Impact**  One of the purchases in 2017 caused a 10% layoff in my area before the purchase was made!  It turned out that they realized they didn't have the money to fork over, so they checked quarterly forecasts and determined that there would be a small downturn in revenue.....so they laid off about a thousand people to offset that. 
Then, there are missed promotions, problems with communication and country issues.  ?..and I have Chinese colleagues (who I don't seem to hear much from these days).





> BA06162C-0306-442B-BE4A-A01698227A78.jpeg



The Democrats need to nip BLM and Antifa in the bud, yes.  It's hypocrisy when it's that lopsided.  
And for God's Sake, if you tell your state to wear a mask, don't go to a fancy restaurant with a bunch of people and not wear one!  
If you're going to be that way and get the Corona, don't come running to me!

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## Ironman

> It does the corporations plenty of good! They love using child labor and sweatshops in other countries to get around local laws!!







> BA06162C-0306-442B-BE4A-A01698227A78.jpeg



Hypocrisy, for sure.  There will be a lot more of it unfortunately.  They don't think they can do anything wrong.
Eric Swalwell's position is still intact after carousing with a Chinese spy.  swept under the rug because he is in with the Speaker.
The "New VP" supports BLM - that's on record.  "Fweedom" as she called it.





> Trump did a lot of damage to the US.  You can't separate his crass, deranged behavior from his judgement and he's made a lot of terrible decisions, starting with the people he surrounded himself with and his cabinet choices, not to mention exhorting a mob to storm the capitol.  His policies were created to enrich himself or his cronies.  His warped definition of globalism neatly fits into his narcisstic point of view and plays into Russian interests.  Whatever weirdness there is between him and Putin, hopefully the real truth of why that is will eventually come out, maybe when he gets prosecuted and we can finally see his tax returns.



And tearing up the State of the Union address isn't crass?  Throwing the 25th Amendment around like it's a power trip?
Impeaching over a recorded phone call with witnesses hearing the entire thing.  We never found out who the whistleblower was.  Vindman?  That idiot and I were born in the same month!  He didn't make a dime off the Presidency - it was all donated and he used his own money.
Three years with Russia lies, and Bidens being implicated and investigated over China overlooked.

Caveat emptor - be careful what you wish for.  I think we're in BIG trouble starting the end of next week.
Try this - Biden's reversal of Trump tax cuts for everyone making $400,000 and under.  Guess how much the President makes per year as set by Congress?  BINGO!

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## Cuchculan

I shall leave this to you Americans. Not going to effect me in any way at all.

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## CloudMaker

> I shall leave this to you Americans. Not going to effect me in any way at all.



you say that now but we?re the worlds reserve currency, protect the free world?s trade routes, are the leader of NATO, and also have tons of corporations that use your country for tax havens. if things get bad here you might see changes too. when America takes a dump the whole world can smell it LOL

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## Cuchculan

We have had American companies pull out of Ireland before. Might effect others in Ireland. But not me. Can't say we depend on them or anything like that. A lot want to trade within the EU and want to be in a country that is in the EU. So the UK might lose a few companies that might cross the Irish sea and set up here. Good for business. For them.

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## sunrise

It may not affect you personally Cuch but I'm sure European governments are nervous because Trump's maneuvering can be used as a playbook for right-wing extremists and overthrowing democracies.  I'm pretty sure that he's influenced a lot of people over there.  If it worked in the US, it can work anywhere.

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## Cuchculan

There were very large protests in every country he ever visited. People who did not want him near their country. The leaders of these countries did not him very much either. Because he was rude and smug. Biden will be try and fix all that again. Be more welcomed into countries. Hard to imagine he will be hated as much as Trump was. I mean in other countries. He lacked diplomatic skills. Listened to nobody else. Done his own thing. Certainly didn't work when it came to making friends across the world. Except his best mate in North Korea.

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## Otherside

Yeah, but we do have our own problems with populists in Europe. 

You've got PIS in Poland and Orban in Hungary who's decided that the pandemic is the perfect excuse to suspend any elections - with little being done to deal with that being done by the EU. France flirts with the National Front, Germany has its issues with AFD being on the rise, similar stories in Austria, Italy. Turkey has an Erdogan problem, who is successful managing to inflate the value of Lira. We have our own problems here with Boris - who has been nicknamed "Britain Trump". Although he'll likely be knifed in the back at somepoint by his party and replaced this year, if he doesn't step down due to the fact that hes incompetent. 

Trump was mostly disliked here - if the US election was held here, it would have been an almost unanimous Biden win. But at the moment, a lot of the high-profile Brits who did like Trump and write articles in support of him - are currently backtracking quite fast and trying to erase any evidence of that before it comes back to bite them. Which is amusing to watch.

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## Ironman

> you say that now but we?re the worlds reserve currency, protect the free world?s trade routes, are the leader of NATO, and also have tons of corporations that use your country for tax havens. if things get bad here you might see changes too. when America takes a dump the whole world can smell it LOL



Unfortunately, that is true.  What we have here is nationalism vs. globalism.  Trump was paralleling Reagan and then zoomed past him in results, then the bioterrorism occurred.
No one wants to admit it, but that's what it was.  People are afraid to call it that, so they blame the leadership.





> We have had American companies pull out of Ireland before. Might effect others in Ireland. But not me. Can't say we depend on them or anything like that. A lot want to trade within the EU and want to be in a country that is in the EU. So the UK might lose a few companies that might cross the Irish sea and set up here. Good for business. For them.



Actually, Trump would have helped.  He said many times that if the EU was to give you guys a hard time, he would have us be the first to help.





> It may not affect you personally Cuch but I'm sure European governments are nervous because Trump's maneuvering can be used as a playbook for right-wing extremists and overthrowing democracies.  I'm pretty sure that he's influenced a lot of people over there.  If it worked in the US, it can work anywhere.



He wasn't extremist, though.  The media turned him out to be.  Outside of his tweets, the only reason people hate him is because the media told people to hate him.

@Cuchculan
 - Again, outside of the tweeting, he didn't do anything outside boundaries.  He was using his own money and donated the salary of the President to charity.  No other President has ever done that.  He literally had to lead the country with an arm tied behind his back and accomplished more than other Presidents can do in eight years.  No wars - and he is pulling troops out of Afghanistan after 2001!   Our Obama was your Neville Chamberlain; our Trump is your Winston Churchill.

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## Ironman

> Yeah, but we do have our own problems with populists in Europe. 
> 
> You've got PIS in Poland and Orban in Hungary who's decided that the pandemic is the perfect excuse to suspend any elections - with little being done to deal with that being done by the EU. France flirts with the National Front, Germany has its issues with AFD being on the rise, similar stories in Austria, Italy. Turkey has an Erdogan problem, who is successful managing to inflate the value of Lira. We have our own problems here with Boris - who has been nicknamed "Britain Trump". Although he'll likely be knifed in the back at somepoint by his party and replaced this year, if he doesn't step down due to the fact that hes incompetent. 
> 
> Trump was mostly disliked here - if the US election was held here, it would have been an almost unanimous Biden win. But at the moment, a lot of the high-profile Brits who did like Trump and write articles in support of him - are currently backtracking quite fast and trying to erase any evidence of that before it comes back to bite them. Which is amusing to watch.



Really, we should have delayed the election, but that is simply not done in the United States.  It is a set date.  Trump wanted to follow it despite people saying to delay the election.  The fact that you say that Trump is mostly disliked is all the more reason for us to be concerned about the election being rigged.  A lot of nefarious and very odd things happened with this election.  It is coming to light that our election was being messed with more than once thought.  An arrest in Italy, not even the focus of what we thought was going on is causing big concern.  People kept screaming Russia and China messing with our election, but to hear things like our election data was being sent to Germany - why? - is just leaving a door open for mayhem.  That's apparently how Italy hacked.

The target was six states - in particular four - Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (Arizona and Nevada were the other two) that had machines sending data to Germany.  None of the other states had those machines.  On January 5, we had an election in Georgia and the exact same behavior happened.  At 11pm, they "stopped counting" saying that there were no more ballots and they were waiting for ballots to come in.  The media called one of the two races and declared a winner during the downtime....there will still other votes coming in according to what we were told!  

Then, nobody even taking an interest in this odd behavior considering all of the ballot issues.  Very puzzling.  It's no wonder Poland and Hungary are trying to delay after seeing what happened here.  The Corona has everybody not thinking straight to begin with!  Depression has exploded more than the Corona has!

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## Cuchculan

Thing causing issues with all these countries in Europe is immigration. Those groups want home grown people only. Their numbers are growing quickly. The more Africans and Muslims that arrive in these countries the bigger the support for these parties. Only a matter of time before one gets fully elected in some country or another. France came very close in their last election. Even surprising to see them in Germany. What with their own background. Merkil let the borders open a few years back and had to close then again when too many people began to flood into Germany. Stupid move on her part. You had a lot of terrorist attacks in France. All Muslim related. That lit the flame there. We could even say Brexit was another outcome of wanting borders closed and lit the flame in the UK. 

I always said Trump did nothing wrong when it came to running the country. It was more just his mouth. He had a bad team around him or he refused to listen to anybody in PR. That was his undoing. Ireland did let him build a golf course here. The EU wanted him to pay us more tax for the golf course. Our government said they didn't want the money. Much like with Apple. They were told to pay us millions more in taxes but our government refused the money. Did cause some uproar. As we were going against the EU on this one. 

I have heard they want the vice president to use some article, is it 52? To remove Trump from office. Though others says to leave it be. His term is all but over. Like they want him impeached again. You would imagine they would simply be happy to just get him out of the white house. Unless they have something new we don't know about.

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## Otherside

I said hes disliked in the UK. That's really nothing new though. I'm not sure why Trump being disliked by the majority of UK Citizens means that election rigging is more likely. America is a lot more right wing than the UK, to the point that the democratic candidate is still fairly right wing by our standards - which make it even more baffling that he considered to he a socialist. As Cuchculan said - a Trump reelection would have been disliked, but not really affected the day to day lives of the people here. Most people see the drama, the angry tweets and the rhetoric - and they don't like it. The majority won't have a clue what Bidens policies are, or what Trumps are, beyond the "Build a wall", "Ban all Muslims" and the Covfefe tweet. 

Let me be clear on what's happening with Poland and Hungary - it goes beyond election delaying/rigging. Hungary has had issues for a while - well beyond the pandemic. Both countries are currently restricting the rights of those living there. Spoken to way to many people from Hungary and Poland living here who left for a very good reason. A few have stories that don't sound out of place from those that you hear a few refugees have, were they not to have come here legally. Take PIS - under there rule, Poland currently has "LGBT free-zones", and the rhetoric currently is that they're not human. Currently passing laws penalizing domestic violence. News articles over there from the government suggest that "gay people will kidnap your children and rape them". Similar taking place in Hungary. 

Agree the election should have been delayed for pandemic reasons, but its constitutionality not done. Would have made it difficult.

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## CloudMaker

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## sunrise

Of course Trump did a lot of horrible things.  His weird canoodling with Russia meant that US wasn't taking proper measures to protect themselves and now we're dealing with a massive Russian hack that experts said will take years to sort out.    Another glaring example is Trump's handling of the pandemic.  He was a COVID denier and repudiated masks. Now over 375K Americans are dead.    Not to mention that he attempted a coup.  

For state/local elections, I would've been fine with delaying the elections, but for the presidency, hell no.  Trump had been besieging courts with bogus lawsuits and pressuring state officials to meddle with the votes.  These next few days until Biden becomes president are scary enough.

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## Cuchculan

Might release the Sex Pistols classic only with the USA in the title this time. Anarchy in the USA. ( Was anarchy in the UK )

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## Ironman

> I said hes disliked in the UK. That's really nothing new though. I'm not sure why Trump being disliked by the majority of UK Citizens means that election rigging is more likely. America is a lot more right wing than the UK, to the point that the democratic candidate is still fairly right wing by our standards - which make it even more baffling that he considered to he a socialist. As Cuchculan said - a Trump reelection would have been disliked, but not really affected the day to day lives of the people here. Most people see the drama, the angry tweets and the rhetoric - and they don't like it. The majority won't have a clue what Bidens policies are, or what Trumps are, beyond the "Build a wall", "Ban all Muslims" and the Covfefe tweet. 
> 
> Let me be clear on what's happening with Poland and Hungary - it goes beyond election delaying/rigging. Hungary has had issues for a while - well beyond the pandemic. Both countries are currently restricting the rights of those living there. Spoken to way to many people from Hungary and Poland living here who left for a very good reason. A few have stories that don't sound out of place from those that you hear a few refugees have, were they not to have come here legally. Take PIS - under there rule, Poland currently has "LGBT free-zones", and the rhetoric currently is that they're not human. Currently passing laws penalizing domestic violence. News articles over there from the government suggest that "gay people will kidnap your children and rape them". Similar taking place in Hungary. 
> 
> Agree the election should have been delayed for pandemic reasons, but its constitutionality not done. Would have made it difficult.



Sadly, the people here didn't know about Biden's policies either.  He never said anything!  All he said was Trump was racist and Charlottesville made him run.  He did in his basement and told African-Americans that if they didn't vote for him, then "they ain't black".  Rather disturbing, but he got total pass.  What he did say was scripted.  He has proven so far that he can't even come up with his own Cabinet.  He went back to Obama's playbook which cost them 2016 to begin with.  He has yet to even have a news conference.  Kamala Harris hasn't been heard from at all.

I have been going to different news sources since, as you can tell from the recent posts, there is a polarized view of the President.

In Hungary, my wrestling show had to postpone and then cancel their big annual event.  Their weekly shows since November have no audience at all as small as it was given their space.  They resorted to creating a commercial to raise funds because of lost revenue.  I am not sure what you are hearing but they are against bias and one of their wrestlers took a rather interesting character - he's a dude but you wonder about his sexuality in the character - "king of tastelessness" lol.  They would not allow that from what you are saying.  I am not sure where you are getting some of that information.

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## Ironman

> Of course Trump did a lot of horrible things.  His weird canoodling with Russia meant that US wasn't taking proper measures to protect themselves and now we're dealing with a massive Russian hack that experts said will take years to sort out.    Another glaring example is Trump's handling of the pandemic.  He was a COVID denier and repudiated masks. Now over 375K Americans are dead.    Not to mention that he attempted a coup.  
> 
> For state/local elections, I would've been fine with delaying the elections, but for the presidency, hell no.  Trump had been besieging courts with bogus lawsuits and pressuring state officials to meddle with the votes.  These next few days until Biden becomes president are scary enough.



What about Inauguration Day 2017?  Madonna's speech, Ashley Judd, the "hats", Kathy Griffin, Johnny Depp, the rioting, The Hamilton confrontation?  Democrats aren't blameless.  They started it!  BLM was Obama!  Ferguson, Baltimore......continued with Trump because they were called civil rights activists.  Nobody wanted to do anything so Trump would look bad.

He said there would be fraud in the election due to mail in balloting.  He didn't do anything because he knew he would get blamed for that, too!  It happened in six states using machines that were apparently connected to the Internet among other nefarious actions.  

And the big question is.....how many times has Trump contacted Putin in the last four years.....if he colluded?

He and my father graduated high school in 1964 - they would have been less than three months apart in age.  A very ugly event happened during their Senior year of high school involving a Soviet sympathizer.  I have my dad's yearbook!  Why would a President collude with a man who was a former KGB agent wanting to return Russia to Communism after what they did to us in the 1960s?  That guy is going to lead Russia for 24 years or something like that.

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## Ironman

> Might release the Sex Pistols classic only with the USA in the title this time. Anarchy in the USA. ( Was anarchy in the UK )



God, I hope not.  We have the Second Amendment (the right to bear arms) to prevent rogue crap.  That's if the Democratic Party doesn't mess with that.  Hunger for power corrupts.

You know it's getting real when India is warning people about Big Tech and censorship.  Australia has actually covered our news better than we have!
Germany and CHINA have made comments about free speech and how Fakebook and $#!773R are taking the bans to the accounts.  Bizarre.

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## Otherside

> Sadly, the people here didn't know about Biden's policies either.  He  never said anything!  All he said was Trump was racist and  Charlottesville made him run.  He did in his basement and told  African-Americans that if they didn't vote for him, then "they ain't  black".  Rather disturbing, but he got total pass.  What he did say was  scripted.  He has proven so far that he can't even come up with his own  Cabinet.  He went back to Obama's playbook which cost them 2016 to begin  with.  He has yet to even have a news conference.  Kamala Harris hasn't  been heard from at all.



The "not Trump" campaign. There was a comedy sketch here back during the 2016 election joking about that one. Summed up it was that "Clinton was disliked, but running on a campaign of "I'm not Trump". 









> I am not sure where you are getting some of that information.



From the accounts of the multiple people I know who moved away from Hungary for that reason. Generally, you don't emigrate without a good reason. Plus the varying European news. They're restricted a bit at the moment what they can due to EU law, or it being signatory to the Council of Europe. Here's a brief run through of it - 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/11/18/...ck-lgbt-people 
https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/09/03/...ademic-freedom 
https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/29/...thoritarianism

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## Ironman

> The "not Trump" campaign. There was a comedy sketch here back during the 2016 election joking about that one. Summed up it was that "Clinton was disliked, but running on a campaign of "I'm not Trump". 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the accounts of the multiple people I know who moved away from Hungary for that reason. Generally, you don't emigrate without a good reason. Plus the varying European news. They're restricted a bit at the moment what they can due to EU law, or it being signatory to the Council of Europe. Here's a brief run through of it - 
> ...



Human Rights Watch?  They think everything is bad no matter what is going on.  ::(: 
There's an article in there are George Soros' Central European University he founded in 1991 and how Orban's "corrupt" government is limiting expression - that people from that school go into the government.  If the education is Soros-driven, given what he has been doing in other places, that's not necessarily a good thing,
The problem is George Soros is a mess.  He threw a lot of money into Log Angeles' District Attorney here.  The guy is already releasing prisoners left and right.  That's on top of the Corona mess. 
Orban told Soros not to try anything in his country.  The billionaire "philanthropist" likes to create mayhem here in the States.  He's one of those globalists.

We have a lot of that here.  With gender studies, what would someone do with a degree like that?  We sent money to Pakistan in the stimulus for transgender studies.  People here complained about getting a third of what Trump wanted to give.  





> The legislation redefines the word “nem,” which in Hungarian can mean both “sex” and “gender,” to specifically refer to a person’s sex at birth as “biological sex based on primary sex characteristics and chromosomes.” According to Hungarian law, birth sex, once recorded, cannot be amended. This means that anyone who doesn’t identify with the sex they were assigned at birth – such as transgender people – will be denied the right to change their legal gender marker to correspond to their identity.



They are referring to our DNA.  It was always that way.  I am male no matter what I would do to my body, I was born a male and will always have male DNA.  
We have issues here where transgender male-to-females are competing against females in sports.  That's not fair to women; they are at a disadvantage.

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## Otherside

> Human Rights Watch?  They think everything is bad no matter what is going on.



First I could find on a google, wasnt aware of it's reputation.  ::s: 





> There's an article in there are George Soros' Central European  University he founded in 1991 and how Orban's "corrupt" government is  limiting expression - that people from that school go into the  government.  If the education is Soros-driven, given what he has been  doing in other places, that's not necessarily a good thing,



Right, but does it not have a right to exist, and teach as it would? You can disagree with what is being taught, and how it is founded, but, in a free society, there is that right. Barring specific topics, subjects, or talking points never ends well, nor does seizing positions and handing them over to government loyalists. We have the barring problem here although in the other direction - barring specific speakers, removing books from libraries. 





> With gender studies, what would someone do with a degree like that?



Aye, personally I'm not sure what the point of a degree in that is. Near useless when it comes to actually being able to use it get a job- short of continuing studying it in academia. But, if someones willing to pay for it, whatever. They are free to do so. 





> They are referring to our DNA.  It was always that way.  I am male no  matter what I would do to my body, I was born a male and will always  have male DNA.



Yep, sex refers to the biological DNA. Part of the problem with the legislation is that it can't be changed on ID. Lot of the other European countries have an ID Cards with the same info you'd have on a passport if you have one of those, you need to use those on a regular basis. Can cause quite a few problems if you have a "M" marker whilst appearing to be an "F" if you try and travel with that ID, try and use it to open a bank account, get a job or housing with it, etc etc - ranging from embarresment to being pulled over when you try and cross an international border becuse the ID doesn't match-up. You can change the marker here, but not on a whim. Needs a diagnosis of gender dysphoria I think in order to get the ID change. 





> We have issues here where transgender male-to-females are competing  against females in sports.  That's not fair to women; they are at a  disadvantage.



True there. There are other ways of resolving that than refusing toallow the M or F marker to be changed on government ID.

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## sunrise

> What about Inauguration Day 2017?  Madonna's speech, Ashley Judd, the "hats", Kathy Griffin, Johnny Depp, the rioting, The Hamilton confrontation?  Democrats aren't blameless.  They started it!.



What does this have to do with the attempted coup that just happened?  White supremacists are the number one domestic terror threat per law enforcement.  To try to both-sides this is right out of the white supremacist playbook. And by the way, they're still threatening violence openly and everyone is predicting more bloodshed. There's no arguing with you because you mine information from sources that peddle conspiracy theories, not sure exactly where.  One of the biggest fallout of Trump's presidency - the assault on truth.  Now half the country lives in an alternate reality.

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## Ironman

> What does this have to do with the attempted coup that just happened?  White supremacists are the number one domestic terror threat per law enforcement.  To try to both-sides this is right out of the white supremacist playbook. And by the way, they're still threatening violence openly and everyone is predicting more bloodshed. There's no arguing with you because you mine information from sources that peddle conspiracy theories, not sure exactly where.  One of the biggest fallout of Trump's presidency -* the assault on truth.  Now half the country lives in an alternate reality*.



….and the boldfaced statement is why there is no much division.  If the roles were reversed, you'd have a different viewpoint, too.  Just because there isn't agreement, doesn't mean it isn't true.

How do you know they are conspiracy theories?  That is the ultimate question.  The media is too lazy or inept to look into things, which is thei rjob, not constantly delivering opinion as news.  This election was NOT like 2016 and people can't even admit it.  It's as plain as the nose on our face.  And you are saying the incident at the Capitol had white supremacists?  Trump was proven over and over again that he wasn't racist - I'd be tired of have to say it all the time, too!

Something similar happened in 2017.  Madonna threatened the White House.  Johnny Depp referenced John Wilkes Booth.  A whole play was written about killing a President.  Kathy Griffin had a bloody head of the President, BLM tearing down statues and defacing monuments.  Four years of dehumanizing comments of people who didn't vote for Hillary, and not being taken seriously.  

Just sayin' there is hypocrisy.  President Trump said nothing about violence.  That's on video.  The people doing the damage and the threats are NOT Trump supporters.  The only assault on truth we are seeing is outright censorship and outside countries are seeing it more than we are - that's the sickest part of all.  Not only are our complaints not being taken seriously, but we are being outright censored in the name of threats.  The next two years are going to be the worst this country has ever seen - there will be no peace especially after today.  The left is going to let it all go thinking they have the support.  By then enough of America will have finally realized that there was something not quite right about the 2020 elections.  Hopefully, we will recover.  It'll take a red wave that will outdo 2010.  The impeachment was the first of many Obamacare-caliber things they will pull.  One fiasco after another.  The healthcare bubble they are trying to create will destroy what is left of our economy as if the Corona wasn't bad enough.

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## CloudMaker

B488AD5D-6E56-4EA5-8584-AD53D4DB382F.jpeg

BTW here?s more PROOF of election fraud. Just because it?s a conspiracy doesn?t mean it?s WRONG!

https://www.kxxv.com/hometown/texas/...VXsJqAFKLx389E

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## sunrise

*"We heard from the Department of Homeland Security ... that this was probably the most secure election that?s ever been run in the United States.?

*




> How do you know they are conspiracy theories?  That is the ultimate question....



Facts are not immutable.  Again another example of trying to both-sides it.  Only one party sides with science.  The evidence is overwhelming regarding the integrity of the election, and most of it coming from GOP, Trump-voting election officials, not to mention his own administration, including Barr, his loyal lapdog.   The irony is that there were enough civic-minded Republicans that democracy was barely saved.  

Conspiracy theorists will look for any confirmation bias.  There's no falsifiability with them, they're immune to evidence and have a strong confirmation bias. So what if people think the moon landing was fake or if the earth is flat?  But when conspiracy mongering is coupled with white supremacy, it's a deadly brew and that's what's really concerning now.  It's always been a problem, but under Trump, the problem metastasized into a huge menace that will probably outlive Trump.  The GOP created a monster and there's no putting the genie back in that bottle.

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## Ironman

> *"We heard from the Department of Homeland Security ... that this was probably the most secure election that?s ever been run in the United States.?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> Facts are not immutable.  Again another example of trying to both-sides it.  Only one party sides with science.  The evidence is overwhelming regarding the integrity of the election, and most of it coming from GOP, Trump-voting election officials, not to mention his own administration, including Barr, his loyal lapdog.   The irony is that there were enough civic-minded Republicans that democracy was barely saved.  
> 
> Conspiracy theorists will look for any confirmation bias.  There's no falsifiability with them, they're immune to evidence and have a strong confirmation bias. So what if people think the moon landing was fake or if the earth is flat?  But when conspiracy mongering is coupled with white supremacy, it's a deadly brew and that's what's really concerning now.  It's always been a problem, but under Trump, the problem metastasized into a huge menace that will probably outlive Trump.  The GOP created a monster and there's no putting the genie back in that bottle.



There needs to be some mind expansion there.  Science can lie as much as polls do - samples skew data. Hundreds of witnesses and a swamp of courts who insisted on the lie that en election was secure.  They treated Hillary better than they did Trump and he actually has evidence!  Silence of Government is golden this time.  William Barr was the biggest swampswimmer of them all.  He lied to everybody so he could "retire quietly".  I wonder if he was threatened by Democrats.  He was tied to something nasty through his father....I think it was about Jeffrey Epstein.

The GOP didn't create a monster.  Outside of a handful of Congressmen, they were all riding the gravy train - fairweather friends.  Lindsey Grahan was the biggest example.  They were as much the swamp as Democrats.  No backbone.  The white supremacy was a total lie.  The media cut up his explanation (incomplete, no doubt) and used it to hypnotize the masses.  He wanted to stop the unrest, but it was supposed to be the states.  Then, they covered up Biden's activities with his son (I have known about it since 201 :8):  to help him so he wouldn't campaign.  

This election was fixed from day one and if it is not resolved, the people "voted in" will continue to degrade like California (Nancy Pelosi's nephew has to be recalled because they fixed the elections so much!).  I consistently hear complaints about their governor and councils, yet they just can't seem to vote out the bad candidates.  That is exactly what the Democrats wanted....with traces of foreign assistance coming to light in 2020.  Voting against a President because of his tweets is a pretty sad excuse.  I am a techie and learned my lesson from what should have been my first Presidential election - 1996.  I would have made a big mistake voting for Bill Clinton like I wanted to.  Thank God I don't have that on my conscience.  He was the last Democratic candidate I will ever vote for.

…..and The Democrats' precious "Big Tech" helpers.  I am seeing a lot of foreign accounts being voluntarily deleted after what they did to Trump!  They don't support censorship and it's ironic that America, with the First Amendment, now suddenly thanks to Democrats, no longer exists.  That will also cost everyone.

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## Ironman

> Attachment 4765
> 
> BTW here?s more PROOF of election fraud. Just because it?s a conspiracy doesn?t mean it?s WRONG!
> 
> https://www.kxxv.com/hometown/texas/...VXsJqAFKLx389E



 
@sunrise
....ah unbelievable!!!!  

It is coming out now that that Sullivan dude who said "he was documenting the Capitol mob"....who I said was a BLM member who had YouTube videos about causing a revolution?????
He, John Sullivan, was ARRESTED after the videos came to light....and now breaking...…..





> John Sullivan's brother (who turned his brother into the FBI) says "They [his brother and Antifa] planned this, *to change the public opinion against Trump supporters, and to create anarchy in the country.*



….and Nancy Antoinette and Democrats refused to look into what happened - just blame it on Trump before the truth comes out?!  FOOLS!

HOW MANY TIMES did I say that it wasn't Trump supporters?  Who sings "Let Freedom Ring", recites the Pledge of Allegiance, emphasizing "under God", and then do something like this?

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## sunrise

By definition if you think the election was "rigged" and that only the votes supporting the GOP were legit, despite all the lawsuits, despite all the scrutiny, despite Trump appointed judges/officials/administrators confirming the results, you are a conspiracy mongerer.  It's magical thinking, it defies logic.  It's not only drinking the koolaid, but bathing it. This is a serious problem of hate-mongery and bigotry in our country, and it's led to the attempted coup spurred on by none other than Trump.

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## CloudMaker

> By definition if you think the election was "rigged" and that only the votes supporting the GOP were legit, despite all the lawsuits, despite all the scrutiny, despite Trump appointed judges/officials/administrators confirming the results, you are a conspiracy mongerer.  It's magical thinking, it defies logic.  It's not only drinking the koolaid, but bathing it. This is a serious problem of hate-mongery and bigotry in our country, and it's led to the attempted coup spurred on by none other than Trump.



If you wouldn’t call what that woman did “rigging” then what would you call it ???

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## Cuchculan

They will impeach him again and find him guilty just to stop him running for office again. Even his own party might agree that this is the best option. They might simply throw him under the bus, not thinking he is worth all this trouble and just get on with it.

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