# Healing and Wellbeing > Study, Work and Welfare >  >  Retire

## CloudMaker

How do people ever retire OMG
I?m 60 and can?t claim full social security until 65 and even then it?s not nearly enough to live on !!! Maybe if I live like a bum 
I worked almost 50 years and what do I have to show for it a trailer on land I don?t own whet lot rent goes up every year and my wages buy less and less
WTF I don?t get it
Is working till U die all there is to life
I hate everything

----------


## rabidfoxes

I agree, it is ridiculous and a real injustice when the working people who create the wealth of a nation don't even get a decent quality of life in their retirement.
It must be stressful for you to think of the future when it's supposed to be the time in life when you finally sit back and relax. How the hell are you supposed to do that?

 In the U.K. there's an acceptance that your state pension won't cover you so you're strongly encouraged to build a second pension with your employer matching some of your contributions. It's great if you have disposable income to invest in this pension (many don't) and if your employer matches contributions to a high percentage of your salary (one employer that I had matched 15%, another - only 1% ). Then pension fund managers cream off extra in their fees unless the person is particularly savvy and moves their investment out of their reach.

The other day I read that the government is prepared to accept that some people might need to sell their homes to fund care in the old age. At the same time, due to Brexit many carers have left the country and there's no influx of workers. Those who are left often will move to the hospitality sector which is struggling to recruit and so is raising wages. And the older people are left with no care even as it is (and as it is carers often are so stretched they don't have the time to spend much time with the people they look after anyway). Just thinking about this makes me very sad.

----------


## Otherside

I'm fully expecting that state pension to no longer exist by the time I hit retirement age. Unless there is massive changes, retiring in the UK seems like an impossibility. Even with the private pensions and employer matching. Lot of people my age just dont see retirement happening. 

@rabidfoxes
 they have screwed up that new social care bill. Is good if you are a pensioner in the SE/London with a house in the millions range because you will be able to "pass that on." Not so good elsewhere, where the cap is almost or more than the value of your home. All that seems to do is protect Southern inheritance. 

Have one grandparent in England at the moment, rest were in Scotland before they passed. Difference is old age care and what you're eligable for, things such as sheltered housing availability...is much better North of the wall.

----------


## rabidfoxes

> I'm fully expecting that state pension to no longer exist by the time I hit retirement age. Unless there is massive changes, retiring in the UK seems like an impossibility. Even with the private pensions and employer matching. Lot of people my age just dont see retirement happening. 
> 
> @rabidfoxes
>  they have screwed up that new social care bill. Is good if you are a pensioner in the SE/London with a house in the millions range because you will be able to "pass that on." Not so good elsewhere, where the cap is almost or more than the value of your home. All that seems to do is protect Southern inheritance. 
> 
> Have one grandparent in England at the moment, rest were in Scotland before they passed. Difference is old age care and what you're eligable for, things such as sheltered housing availability...is much better North of the wall.



I haven't actually looked at the bill itself but the exception makes it sound even worse. I'm hoping that the need to placate the traditional conservative voter base (pensioners) will protect our pensions but yeah, who knows? If all else fails, we might have to make the pound stretch further by retiring to Vietnam. I'm making light of it here but the care question really does make me very sad. Ken Loach touched on it in Sorry We Missed You and it was one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever seen.

----------


## CloudMaker

Imagine moving from a “developed” country to Vietnam because your “developed” country doesn’t support u! How sad!!
I once knew a young guy who saved up a bunch then moved to Thailand because of how much cheaper it is there and he planned to retire there. they have good healthcare and prostitution is legal there which was a big selling point for him LOL

----------


## Otherside

> If all else fails, we might have to make the pound stretch further by retiring to Vietnam.



Hey, at least there'd be better food and better weather!

Bill is that if you have more than ?100k assets (including house value, so most homeowners), you pay the first ?85k on care costs. So, drop in the ocean for homes in SE/London - prices going into the stupidly high ranges, significant part of house value in other parts of England. Would have been fairer for ?85k cap to be proportional to home value.

----------


## rabidfoxes

@CloudMaker
 oh interesting, I've been to Thailand and loved it but I didn't know they had a good healthcare system. But more to the point, yeah, retiring abroad should be about choice and not about having to run away from destitution!


@Otherside
 thanks for explaining that to my lazy self, my partner also covered this over breakfast so now I feel well informed! Maybe I've got a heightened sense of entitlement but to me it's strange that someone would have to sell their home to fund their care in the first place. I thought that was automatically provided unless you wanted your extra fine care, in which you funded it privately. Turns out I was wrong. At least there's a cap now at all, hopefully it will get adjusted based on regional home values.

----------


## Otherside

@rabidfoxes
 Yeah, I think it needs to be adjusted for regional values. Huge disparity in cost based on where you are. Will have to see if this goes ahead. Politics is playing out over the plans. Looks like it will be in back for a vote in commons as the Lords will vote it down. Party wasn't happy to begin with. Not to mention sounds now coming out in the news about Boris possibly not being PM much longer if his poll ratings don't improve (that and he made a speech about Peppa Pig instead of the economy to a bunch of businessemen, no joke, and they're not happy about that.)

On Thailand - I know people who have gone (working age, work remotely from there), don't know what the public system is like, but I know you can get good private healthcare if you pay for it, cost is a lot lower than here.

Those working remotely though do it for the lower costs whilst still taking in a western salary, and getting to have a long holiday. See a lot of photos of "my office" being a tropical paradise or a beach and drinking martinis whilst working.

----------


## rabidfoxes

> Those working remotely though do it for the lower costs whilst still taking in a western salary, and getting to have a long holiday. See a lot of photos of "my office" being a tropical paradise or a beach and drinking martinis whilst working.



In case this makes you a bit sad about being in England, it's largely an Instagram fantasy. I think a lot of people tried out working with a martini in hand during the pandemic and found it's not as fun as it sounds. If it's the monsoon season, your shirt is also soaked through and clinging to your back as you are trying to look profesh on your zoom call in stifling heat. Then there are some ethical issues around digital nomad-ism. Whilst some people are transparent about their tax affairs and volunteer to give back to the local communities where they're staying, others are less scrupulous. 

Not to say that living as a digital nomad doesn't have great advantages or that the hipsters hopping around the world in search of extra buying power for their pound are to blame for the global wealth inequality. I mean, considered doing it myself at some point. But it helps to see both sides of the coin and not to take social media bragging too seriously.

----------


## Otherside

@rabidfoxes


Yeah, I know. I know a few people that do it. Is a great area legally (or just outright illegal to remote work like that on a Tourist Visa waiver). Often do not pay tax in those countries. Often ignore the reality of living in those countries when they big up how great it is living there om a western salary. El Salvador is one I've seen a lot of at the moment. Because the dictator there made crypto legal tender. Are showing themselves buying coffees with crypto. 

Actually being El Salvadorian whilst that experiment is happening...well...

Same with those living in Turkey right now with Lira tanking right now. Good if you are paid in Pound/Dollar/Euro. Bad if you're a Turk.

----------


## rabidfoxes

@Otherside
 very true. Unfettered capitalism against the backdrop of globalisation, what could possibly go wrong? If I hadn't quite drinking I'd feel strongly tempted to mix myself that martini right now.

----------


## Heelsbythebridge

My retirement plan is to die.

----------

