Other ways like what exactly? Say you wanted to teach a person about the Civil war tomorrow. But you wanted to leave out all the bad bits. How would you explain it to them? As they would ask questions. What about books in libraries? Old films. Paintings. Do people have to remove all of them as well?InvisibleGuy
The Lovable Irish Rogue
I don't think that removing the statues is about leaving out the bad parts. It's about removing negative people from spots of honor. If you want to teach someone about the Civil War or history in general and you NEED things in public spaces like statues to do so, I would wonder what kind of teacher you are. You can show people Andersonville where they kept Union POWs, or look at written histories of slaves, or any number of other things that don't commemorate the villains.
It's not about rewriting history. It's about removing those from honor who shouldn't be honored in the first place...
This ^
I really don't think you understand the basic premise here, @Cuchculan either that, or you just don't want to understand it.
It's not about erasing the bad parts of history. It's not about pretending that our country didn't enslave, murder, torture millions of human beings. History books, the biographies and autobiographies of slaves, historical sites on the internet...all of those can be used to educate. No one is suggesting we leave any of the facts out (except for you). That's insane. That would make no sense.
For the millionth time. Statues are not erected for just anyone. I'm not going to get a statue built to remember me when I'm gone. Neither are you, probably. Having a statue in your name is an honor. It's meant to honor the sacrifices you made while you were alive, or the contributions you made to society, or to acknowledge the fact that you were brave and courageous and did the right thing, even though it may not have been popular at the time. Statues are erected to honor people and the way they lived their lives.
Slave owners are not worthy of being honored. For anything. They are the biggest black eye this country has ever been given. They're a disgrace. An embarrassment. If one of my ancestors, someone on my family tree had been a slave owner or fought for the confederacy, and had a statue erected in their name, I would personally take it down. I honestly don't know what is so difficult about understanding this very, very simple concept. Unless you have some kind of ulterior motive or something.
You're going to lose people in your life, and realize that no matter how much time you spent with them or how often you told them you loved them, it will never seem like it was enough.
Hug the ones you love.
So, basically ONE MAN is calling for it to go down. Don't you find this a bit startling? ONE MAN determines what gets torn down, We are in a lot of trouble.
Did you even bother to read the article, John? Or did you just reply with a knee-jerk reaction?
~ Associated Press"The decision to take down the others came much quicker. Fenves said he spoke last week with student leaders, students, faculty members, staff members and alumni about what to do after the events in Virginia.
"The University of Texas at Austin is a public educational and research institution, first and foremost. The historical and cultural significance of the Confederate statues on our campus — and the connections that individuals have with them — are severely compromised by what they symbolize," Fenves said.
"Erected during the period of Jim Crow laws and segregation, the statues represent the subjugation of African Americans. That remains true today for white supremacists who use them to symbolize hatred and bigotry," he said."
It was not one man's decision. Read the above quote.
Also, I attended a rally / protest last Saturday in which there were four or five hundred people, all there to protest the confederate statue in Sam Houston Park here in Houston.
You make it sound like Greg Fenves is the only man in Texas that wants these racist statues removed lol. That's not the case, my friend. A whole, whole lot of people want them removed.
You're going to lose people in your life, and realize that no matter how much time you spent with them or how often you told them you loved them, it will never seem like it was enough.
Hug the ones you love.
My next question would be about the Native American Indians. Did you treat them any better than you did the slaves? That wasn't a confederate issue. That was your normal cavalry of the day. Same soldiers who would have fought against the confederate army in the civil war. So that only tells me that each side is just as bad as the other. How many Native American Indians died? How much land was stolen from them? The land was originally theirs. What you class as your average Americans only came after them and took what was theirs. How many statues are up of people who fought battles against the Native American Indians? I bet they are not seen as bad as those who had slaves. Double standards.
The Lovable Irish Rogue
It is a double standard. Those statues should be removed. I haven't heard anyone argue otherwise. Though, it wouldn't surprise me if a few people posted that it would be a "shame to try to delete a part of history" lmao.
It was the biggest holocaust in recent history, maybe in all of history. Millions and millions of people were slaughtered. Unfortunately this country was founded through a holocaust, we not only took land that wasn't ours to take but we murdered millions of Native Americans while doing it. There shouldn't be any statues up honoring those murderers.
So what's your point?
You're going to lose people in your life, and realize that no matter how much time you spent with them or how often you told them you loved them, it will never seem like it was enough.
Hug the ones you love.
I think Cuchman's point is that it's a slippery slope if we start removing statues. I wouldn't agree, but is that your point @Cuchculan ?
I mean to remove statues of a certain era only is wrong if something even bigger happened and worse happened and things from that era are still allowed and accepted. I think that is my whole point. That most people would accept the removal of those civil wars statues but not of anything of anybody involved with what happened to the Native American Indians. That might lead to a lot of name changes in towns and streets. Also be the end of thanksgiving day too. That is connected back to the days of the earliest settlers is it not? A whole public holiday. One of your biggest holiday days of the year. I am sure people would never accept that.
The Lovable Irish Rogue
Well, so much for not lumping all of us dumb Americans together. So much for not assuming we all think alike. So much for not stereotyping.
You're going to lose people in your life, and realize that no matter how much time you spent with them or how often you told them you loved them, it will never seem like it was enough.
Hug the ones you love.
How will people remove Mt. Rushmore? I wonder if the energy spent on tearing down statues is better spent on educating all of us. Instead of tearing down maybe instead erect plaques with the facts? I'm in trouble where I live if I have to start sitting Native American style instead of Indian style. I don't understand why they want to tear down historical statues even though invisableguy keeps explaining it, I still don't get it.
I guess some people just don't get it. *sigh*
You're going to lose people in your life, and realize that no matter how much time you spent with them or how often you told them you loved them, it will never seem like it was enough.
Hug the ones you love.
Never said anything about all Americans been dumb? I am simply saying a lot of bad things have happened, but to right the wrong would mean doing away with some tradition most Americans like. Like Thanksgiving which most people use as a family day. People would never agree to it. Let us be honest about it. It would be impossible to right all the wrongs ever done. So only one is been picked on for now. Which I still don't think will end well at all. Can only see it leading to trouble. Playing into the hands of the haters. Might surprise you to hear I have a lot of American friends who agree with my views. Maybe not on here. But it is debated elsewhere too. They know exactly what I am on about. Sorry if you thought I was offending you or even Americans. That was not my intention at all.
The Lovable Irish Rogue
Well, there are a whole, whole lot of people that agree with me, also. Four to five hundred people showed up at a protest I went to last Saturday. Four to five hundred people risked possibly getting into an ugly confrontation with the opposition. They risked getting into a confrontation with cops. The BLM facebook page suggested that you NOT bring children. They stated that the protesters were a radical left wing group. They stated that they are not there to make anyone comfortable. They are there to get you out of your comfort zone. They are a voice for change. They suggested wearing a bandana or scarf over your face, and at the very least sunglasses. I didn't wear either. I have nothing, nothing to be ashamed of. I have nothing to hide from. I am totally at peace with anyone and everyone knowing exactly where I stand on this issue. If anything, I'd expect the opposition to be ashamed, to be hiding their faces.
There are a lot, a whole lot of people who feel like I do. And the movement to take down the statues is gaining momentum. It's happening, whether you like it or not. If I was you I'd get used to the idea that the statues here are coming down. I think it's a step in the right direction. I think it's long, long overdue.
You're going to lose people in your life, and realize that no matter how much time you spent with them or how often you told them you loved them, it will never seem like it was enough.
Hug the ones you love.
I don't live over there so it won't really bother me at all. I just think it will turn ugly. That was my original point. Just like we have seen over here in Northern Ireland. Us against Them sort of thing. Riots. Even killings. I will watch on with interest. No offense to you ever meant in any of my posts. We have different opinions only. Mine for the reasons I just stated. I know why you have your opinions too. So we can agree to disagree and still get on with each other.
The Lovable Irish Rogue
