Random Thought of the Day

[Nyctophilia]

Lol I didn't realise she did a live cover of Basket Case that's great:



There was some tribute band in London last year who were playing that song live and then Billie Joe actually stepped on stage because he was in the pub when they were playing which is insane. That would be like 14 year old me's dream scenario:

[Nyctophilia]

Feeling like an imposter in both men's and women's spaces

I'm both, so I feel like I'm both welcome and unwelcome in gendered spaces. It?s so weird. I can honestly say I'm female but it feels like a lie if I don't say I'm also male, and vice versa. However it's not always safe/pleasant/realistic to be openly bigender so I'm stuck always feeling like I?m hiding part of myself and invading spaces where I don't belong.

I feel this way so much. Like because Im both, Im not allowed to actually be either. I get twice the imposter syndrome and so much confusion and it's part of why i've transitioned and detransitioned and retransitioned, etc.

It took a long time for me to accept being bigender because men told me I wasn't manly enough to be a man, and women have excluded me for being too much of a man. ;-; I feel like I can't win because Im too much and too little of everything.

Yeah I'm thinking about this at the moment. Well, to me I don't care too much about being in women's spaces eg: female toilets where I don't have to communicate. Because I look female so I know no one's going to care and it's a toilet. I would worry about going into male toilets because I know I'd stand out. Especially if I have longer hair. I feel like I can look vaguely male in a photo but not in real life. I'm really short etc. Maybe if I had short hair and people weren't paying close attention they might think I'm a teenage boy I dunno. The female toilet has been working so far the rare times I use them, and I'm not exactly going to do a poll lol.

F1nn continues using the male bathrooms even though he mostly passes as female unless he's speaking and I guess sometimes has people react but I don't want to deal with that when I'm just using the toilet really. So if I kept getting into confrontations I'd probably switch but I don't so it works:



The issue is in places which involve communicating or getting to know people. But I guess that's a problem in general. I wouldn't feel comfortable in male spaces because I don't pass and there's the sense that anything that's explicitly male is some kind of... I guess I wouldn't be in those spaces anyway because those spaces aren't just male they're hyper masculine probably? or gay male potentially.

I'm fine in spaces where it's not offically a male space but it's defacto male like I've been in plenty of spaces where everyone or almost everyone is a guy. I also lived with 5 guys once lol. Places that are majority female have sometimes made me more uncomfortable but I think in some cases that was just because the activity itself was uncomfortable? I dunno. PE class in high school. I didn't mind PE in primary school when it was mixed but then it just got weird and I also got more... weird with age. Later this art class that was mostly female also had a kind of uncomfortable atmosphere. I think also because I was bad at A level art lol.

But at this point my worry would be more dating type stuff or LGBT spaces. I don't know, maybe a lot of spaces are mixed as well (for obvious reasons,) but I get the impression that a lot of stuff is organised around being sapphic or being a passing gay guy. So like bisexual women or lesbians and then they seem to include non-binary people most of the time but at times in practice they exclude non-binary people who look very masculine. More masculine than say someone who would be read as an androgynous lesbian or gay guy looks aesthetically. Skinny, no facial hair and so on. Like someone like this would be included:



But someone with a huge build and a beard etc who acts masculine wouldn't. You get the idea.

That's not my personal problem since I don't look very masculine and I can't grow a beard, just an issue lots of people have with these spaces and I think that also defeats the point of non-binary identity. You might as well redefine the space as a space for androgynous and femme looking people.

I think sometimes they even have issues with some butch lesbians if they seem too like men. But it varies and that's probably less common.

Lol I'm thinking about this Jubilee video with Arielle Scarcella in. Obviously she's not typical because she's a conservative and all that but her ruleset is so idiosyncratic. It's like if you don't identify as a woman or even if you identify as non-binary (since she didn't inquire further about the person with green hair's identity, one person said they didn't identify as a woman the other just said non-binary) you're not allowed in feminist or female spaces - even though she keeps using female pronouns for this person which is very ironic. She totally sees them as female but she's really just trying to be petty and make a point but at the same time if you don't pass as a woman you're not allowed. So you both have to pass and identify as female. If everyone adopted that ruleset non-binary people basically wouldn't be able to go anywhere. Because there are no spaces for non-binary people:



I like that though it's like "you're identity as a non-binary person is valid only so I can exclude you from female spaces."

And I said this before in a post I removed but if you make the rule that only people who pass as female can be in the space you won't just exclude trans women - in fact you won't exclude a lot of trans women. You'll end up excluding cis women who don't pass. There are a lot of cis women who pass a men. I think these days a lot of people who used to identify as butch women id as non-binary - even older people who used to id as butch women sometimes id as non-binary. Some people id as both and as lesbians (actually with older people that's common like they're lesbians and non-binary.) Like Eileen Myles who completely passes as a guy at this point even with long hair:





Kind of a sidenote but I only started looking into them and their work yesterday and I think they say some interesting things in the second video (which I haven't finished watching lol but I watched several minutes of it,) about vaginas. To me Anglo culture has a very deep issue with vaginas.

It exists on a personal level like I never liked the idea of being penetrated so I didn't in relationships and so there's this kind of conflict where it's like am I allowed to have that preference or is it wrong and something that should be 'overcome' also I don't have a dick which provides additional limitations. But this issue exists culturally too and even people who are heterosexual men and they don't have a [BEEP] many are uncomfortable with vaginas.

Then another thing you see because we don't have conversations about this. Many have a masculinity complex I notice like Myron from Fresh and Fit:





I also like that he asks her if she eats [BEEP] and she says no and he says 'exacty point proven' I don't know if this means he also thinks dicks are disgusting or that he sucks dicks. Because otherwise you could use the same logic about that.

Andrew Tate "you can give head we can't do that."

Oh you can do that. You physically can. You don't want to.

I think it's OK for them to have that preference to not give oral sex. I don't really like the idea of oral sex in general (with anyone,) myself - giving or receiving but especially giving. I don't know if there are ideal circumstances where I could enjoy that but it's not something I fantasise about. I mostly fantasise about penetrating other people and manual sex (like with hands.) It's not something I dislike in the abstract in fiction and such in fact I've always liked that. Not as much as some things but I like reading and listening to stuff talking about certain acts, but if I'm thinking about my own involvement then it doesn't work.

But the way he constructs his identity and tries to justify his preferences and his sexual conflict is very toxic. Because no matter what it can't be that he's unmasculine, less of a man and so on. So giving head has to become an inherently unmasculine act other wise he's just insecure which is viewed as unmasculine.

It's also very like that one scene from the 2001 film The Believer where Ryan Gosling's character actually brings this up at one point (but somewhat the reverse sexual preference.) Maybe I shouldn't post that actually. I dunno. They're sitting in a cafe and start talking about this. He's kind of described a group of guys who give pleasure but don't feel comfortable penetrating. He considers the latter group to be essentially women. And also argues that they ruin women because after that they don't want to be with other men. He doesn't explicitly say that 'real men don't give head' though it feels like it's implied. They receive pleasure they don't give it because as he says - giving pleasure is a weakness. So really giving pleasure in any way would be considered bad in that sense at least for men.

And it is insane how entire incredibly fucked up ideologies that lead to war can stem from this tiny core like this.

I've seen this with other manosphere guys too like Bronze Age Pervert there's often some underlying sexual difference or discomfort with sex and at this point I don't think it's a coincidence I think it's all kind of connected.

And when I was trying to figure myself out am I asexual etc I noticed there are stone butch women or 'touch me nots' in the lesbian community. This is a pain you know because I'm not a lesbian but you keep encountering stuff in a community you don't belong to. When it comes to straight women there's no discussion of this and if there is you're broken. That's it. You're broken, you must change.



Also something that's interesting is in the lesbian community if you're giving pleasure that's seen as being more dominant and/or masculine but in the straight world if you're recieving pleasure that's seen as more dominant and/or masculine lol. I don't know how these norms evolved but yeah. I think it might be because historically being stone or a 'touch me not' was associated with butch women and you can't get physiological pleasure (at least in a direct sense,) from strap on sex and there were many 'pillow princesses' (usually associated with femme lesbians,) who sometimes didn't want to go near female genitals anyway. So that stereotype evolved.

And I think if you're a straight guy too. You're expected to do certain things or you're insecure and unmasculine. Which for certain kind of guys probably does hurt their ego and make them feel insecure and they respond to that with anger. Because masculine people tend to respond with anger as a response to their feelings being hurt instead of getting sad and crying etc. I mean if they have an emotional reaction it will be anger most of the time.

A lot of these guys frame non reproductive sex as being 'gay' and wrong and unmasculine. They argue if you go down on a woman 'that's gay.' They create this hyper masculine persona that's incredibly fake and defensive because they're very emotional people and they're not hiding this either it comes out:



But yeah there's not much conversation about preferences in the 'straight community' as it were. Everything is sort of expected and prescribed. If you're a female top no you're not that doesn't exist. You're not allowed to not want to go down on people and so on. Everything is very rigid. There's a bit more discussion in [BEEP] communities but it's still not perfect. And I think in very recent years like as in the last... Since 2015 lets say there has started to be discussion among straight people. Like conversations about strap on sex among straight people have become very slightly more common.

Also people will say the word dick without even thinking about it really. Technically it's a slur but it's barely one. But if you say [BEEP] in the US at least (not as much in the UK and definitely not as much in Australia,) it's a huge deal. So there's lots of ways anglo cultures - to diffrent degrees depending on the country - are uncomfortable with vaginas. As Camilla Paglia said:

Still, the [BEEP] hats: She buried her face in her hands as she discussed them. "I was horrified, horrified by the pink [BEEP] hats," she said; the pink [BEEP] hats were "a major embarrassment to contemporary feminism."

"I want dignity and authority for women," she said. "My code is Amazonism. I want weapons."

I think most weapons are phallic symbolically. People are more comfortable with that symbolism you see it everywhere. I think swords and stuff are cool aesthetically myself:



That doesn't address the problem though.

She was in her own words 'horrified.' And she's spoken about dicks before:

Women who can't deal with men, who can't deal with the penis, are just immature, they're adolescent. I'm tired of it. I'm trying to bring a whole new kind of sexual sophistication to feminism, to allow even women who are openly lesbian, as I am with my lover, to say that we regard the penis as hot. It's natural for any woman, lesbian or not, to regard the penis as hot; your body naturally responds to that.

The penis is perfect because it makes people very uncomfortable. Deal with the penis. If you can't deal with it, you are not pro-sex.

Yeah but you're uncomfortable with pussies.

So yeah anyway they don't always pass as female:



When young they passed as female in photos more (all of this is also somewhat subjective too people will sometimes disagree about people etc):



A lot of people who are very masculine (to the extent that some older lesbians are,) and young now will just come out as trans guys instead of lesbians or non-binary because these boundaries have shifted. Not all of them though, and clearly there's going to be some confusion here. Like someone talks about the difficulty in this video:



"You know there's a lot of complaints among a lot of butches that butches are dying off. That we're an endangered species. It's a very hard identity to protect in the culture because I think that the culture by affirming trans - which is a great thing - I also think what's happened is the binary's been reaffirmed."

"Here's the thing. I don't want to be a man. There's some kind of shedding of cultural prescriptions about what it means to occupy your sex. For me it's just about being at a core self."

"I identify as a they lesbian, and a butch and a d*ke. I think I'm trans. We're in such a moment now where transness is so much more in the fore and yet I think butch was the first way to identify as one who grew up thinking perhaps that you were a boy rather than a girl."

So ironically. Arielle's position makes it more difficult for people like this to exist.

And yeah some get chucked out of and harassed in bathrooms.



And we've now reached the point where people are harassing people who tbh don't pass as men. Maybe they look slightly tomboyish. They don't pass behaviourally, physiologically like the woman in this video:



Young Avril with shorter hair just getting chucked out of toilets now lol. Because some people are crazy. Well they do think she was replaced with a clone actually. There was the guy in Ireland who beat up an elderly woman and then said he did it because he thought she was trans. And people do look and sound more androgynous with age so you're going to have a really bad time if you're that much of an insane bigot.

And I kind of understand this rhetoric from straight people because for a lot of them the most masculine woman on the planet to them is Kristen fucking Stewart and they're having a meltdown about her every 5 minutes. But there are way more masculine people out there and you will end up excluding them from lesbian spaces. Which is so ironic because these spaces started out as mostly butch and femme in the first place before the 70s. Arielle is a lesbian though and before she switched to making cringe content about witches, otherkin and non-binary people who are overweight and/or have dyed hair, she made videos about LGBT+ topics for years so she knows this.

But yeah at some point the lesbian community in general I think adopted this set of rules where like lesbians are 'non-men loving non-men.' I'm not a lesbian so I'm not going to argue with that definition I know a lot of women have an issue with that definition for obvious reasons. Because of this though they'll date non-binary people if they don't identify as men and even if they don't identify as women. So basically agender people.

This isn't really how I view my gender identity. I'm bigender so I would be excluded from lesbian spaces/websites I assume? That's technically fine because I'm not a lesbian but because there are no bisexual spaces as far as I know. It's like. There's no where I can go theoretically. And I assume this would be an issue on dating sites too if I used them. I also don't really hear about non-binary spaces much.

I'm probably overthinking this I would hope a lot of spaces are mixed gender anyway. But I wouldn't feel comfortable in gay male spaces because I feel like the emphasis is so much on either cis male masculinity or a kind of femininity that doesn't fit me either. I don't know though. In sapphic spaces it's like I have to not identify as a guy. But even this seems kind of all over the place because some spaces seem to include trans men (which is a point of mass debate constantly online it seems,) and so I'm less male identified than a binary trans man - and less masculine looking generally too. Or not maybe:



I don't know anymore. Seems like a lot aren't on testosterone in some environments (68% weren't on testosterone in her sample.)

I look kind of like a teenage boy with short hair. Mostly just androgynous though:



That's why I don't at this point. Also tbf this photo is from when I was in my mid 20s. Probably around 25-26. I also just prefer having long hair mostly so have for most of my life. I mean that's still not super short, I've never had it super short. This was really funny and weird from years ago with faceapp so it gave me like female versions which look so weird and the male version is also really weird and uncanny and freaked me out lol because it looks kind of like my brother and dad fused together or something. It's like various family members and myself all mixed together.



This photo isn't exactly representative either because back when I still even took photos of myself, I would try to take photos that hide how round my face looks lol because I don't like it. Lol I randomly decided to put on a 90s tatoo choker in this photo think it's probably from around 2016 as well and I'm like 25 again but look about 12 (I'm not posting the terrible cringe Pokemon hoody image again I posted that and I think removed it in a couple of posts recently. There's another image too where I'm not wearing sunglasses in the same hoody and it's even worse but yeah I often end up looking about 12.) This isn't even the most round face photo. I'm not going to post one though. Obviously if I smile it's more obvious too.:



That's why I found this video funny lol because I noticed Dylan Brady is wearing one:





Just became a thing again at some point.

OK that's the fashion portion of this post over.

This is all on top of the sexuality issue anyway where I've only dated guys a long time ago.

Just need 'nerd spaces' lol. Even then would probably be uncomfortable because there's the sense where I don't fit in anywhere perfectly most of the time. Or eventually will come to realise that if I don't immediately. In practice I just end up hanging out with and talking to straight guys when I bother(ed) to have a social life but sometimes the gender breakdown would be like 80% male 20% female.

If it's more female it's sometimes been uncomfortable (it was fine in actual childhood, and I mostly hung out with girls especially in school, but after about age 11.) I did have a close female friend in high school though. And we'd sometimes hang out with other straight guys and this one gay guy outside of school. Everyone else was male again though. It was the same ratio somehow often. In school though we'd hang out with other girls. Part of the reason this was uncomfortable was firstly it was school, and also my bully was in this social circle. And my friend also had this other female friend who was jealous sometimes. I was less comfortable with her so wasn't talking to her at one point as much while we were both at my friends house (at this point she's also moved away but we were visiting her for the weekend,) and my other friend who was her best friend wasn't giving her enough attention either so the other girl got upset. This is all irrelevant and happened years ago though. Also teenagers are kind of just dumb anyway.

Online it's not that different I end up mostly talking to guys or trans people but not really cis women.

So Humans. They exist. Maybe. (Outside of my family and friend I talk to online and people I briefly interact with in art galleries about books/paintings and shops.) How do you even?

The last time I talked to strangers I was in an art gallery a couple of months ago and there were two interactions one far more comfortable than the other. So this woman was taking me to this painting and started talking about the painting and my anxiety got really bad. Then later I bought a book in the gallery and this guy was talking to me about the book and how he wanted to buy it and I felt more comfortable. Not entirely comfortable but more comfortable. Maybe it's because there was a desk in the way, maybe it's because he was working in the gift shop and seemed less upper middle class school teacher vibes? Maybe it's because he was a guy and not a woman, maybe it's because there was an obvious exit to the conversation because I was buying something and it wasn't indefinite. I don't know. I think the last one is important though.

Even with concerts it's weird. I like gothy aesthetics and such but I felt quite uncomfortable when I went to the IAMX concert at the end of last year. Maybe that was partly my mood at the time though too. Also the endless waiting - they take forever to get on stage. I was dressed pretty casually then though and felt like I actually stood out a bit for that reason lol. I had like a red hoody on and jeans. But there were other people who stood out too. Behind me while waiting for the band to get on stage I heard someone point out that there were a lot of people there that they wouldn't have expected to be IAMX fans.

Then I compared that to the Porcupine Tree concert I went to a few months before that. There were some younger people there too but also lots of older guys and I guess I just felt kind of invisbile there which is nice. I'm not though, I was the only person who looekd like me there. But somehow I felt invisble and didn't care quite as much. It was still somewhat anxiety inducing especially to start with while queing in that background social anxiety way that's almost always been there my entire life. But, then I had this social interaction when buying a t-shirt that felt like it went well (I don't know why, and why the [BEEP] does it matter? I'm just buying a fucking t-shirt lol. How can interaction feel like it went well when you're not even talking and it's just like scripted. That's how broken my brain is lol.)

But so I feel like it was more comfortable compared to the other concert. And I think what it is is there's this kind of background aura where I feel judged more by the people at the IAMX concert (which is ironic, because I think the fanbase and IAMX are trying to create the opposite dynamic where you're not judged, they also have a fanbase that has a lot of mentally ill people and a lot of LGBT+ people) and this might just be in my head and also might also be because of some negative stuff I read before even going to the concert about Chris and some stuff that happened at another concert.

Someone posted online about a concert they went to in the US where their autistic boyfriend was basically having a meltdown in the crowd and then he kind of highlighted this person because it was obvious apparently to other people as well (someone responded to say they were near them and noticed in the crowd,) they had their hands over their ears and weren't OK and so he said 'why are they even there? and that it was disquieting' and then he started crying and he asked them to leave. And then this person (who was the partner of the trans guy,) also corrected Chris on their boyfriend's pronouns because Chris used the wrong ones.

So Chris was like 'he, she, they whatever.' Which I think is how Chris feels about pronouns for himself he doesn't care what ones people use for him. He's spoken about that I think in Q&A stuff online when asked about it. But it's hard to get from that description how he said it like if it was dismissive or whatever. But I kind of expect this kind of sentiment from most people - like most people are annoyed if you're trans or non-binary it's this undercurrent that's always going to be there with most people. They find your existence tedious. Which again does not help socialising lol!

But the misgendering thing didn't bother them as much as everything else that happened. Like to me the really disheartning thing about this is they advertise themselves as being supportive to people who are mentally ill etc. And they actually have mental health groups after some concerts which I've not been to because I don't think they even had any for previous London concerts. I know at one concert someone actually did some messed up self harm thing at a concert - this was many years ago. Chris talked about it in an interview.

Chris apparently suggested at one point that he was autistic too. So maybe he just isn't great socially himself, and I get that impression listening to him in interviews etc. He always has Janine with him and she's a lot more socially skilled. And someone else also at that concert was talking about it and apparently he'd been having technical issues all night so I think he was in a bad mood anyway.

OK so I'm remembering a bit wrong the partner of this autistic trans guy was posting in the thread as well but the OP of the thread was actually that patner's dad. So they were complaining and apparently some photographer had emailed his son (they id as non-binary but I think are OK with the term son etc,) and this photographer wasn't at the show they went to and was rebuking him for describing this situation online lol and for disrupting the show. Even though it was Chris who decided to call them out about it. And again they advertise themselves as being supportive of mentally ill people.

I didn't get the impression they were being really disruptive either he wasn't yelling or hitting people and so on. The other person who described the situation said he had his head down and hands over his ears. So their impression was that Chris was trying to make sure he was OK. But was kind of dick about it, and doing that in a really [BEEP] way basically. And obviously he apparently asked them to leave after he started crying.

It's funny though because statistically speaking the environment full of older guys has to be people who are on average less tolerant. It's not something they're familiar with due to age and mostly being straight. And guys are less agreeable in general. As a general trend right not saying all the time. I'm sure most have never met a non-binary person, and think that's insane, and if you go back so many years no one was even getting diagnosed with autism or mental health conditions most of the time. But since it's not going to come up and hasn't it's actually been more comfortable.

Lol until something terrible happens. I'm trying not to think in black/white ways though. Statistically speaking things like this are going to happen sometimes with so many people.

Actually coincidentally the person who posted about that whose boyfriend they were talking about - they're actually also fans of Porcupine Tree. I've seen them post in a bunch of places with the same username etc.

Anyway I don't have a lot of conscious thoughts in the moment because the emotional reactions just overpower them so I'm trying to break it down.

But really I just feel that basically any social environment I could enter now will be overwhelming with a series of rules that aren't even clear.

edit: Lol I just found this thread from 2 days ago:

There is no bisexual community.

Hey as the post says, I feel as if there is no real bisexual community. I (30m) live in NYC and have been out for a number of years now and when I moved to NYC I kinda expected there to be an integration amongst the entire alphabet soup but really there's not. As I go out there's basically these pockets: The Gays, Queers (mostly trans and nonbinary folks), and Lesbians. There are no bisexual/pansexual spaces and I feel as if I have to always either be gay at [BEEP] spaces or be "straight" when I?m with my hetero friends.

I always feel like the only bisexual man in most spaces and always feel like I need to "come out" because people assume one way or the other and not that I?m bi.

Am I alone in this?

No! I'm not even trying irl but even online it's hard to find things with the exception of like certain news articles or maybe subreddits. On YouTube especially I never get suggested videos by non-binary or bisexual/pansexual people - but especially bisexual/pansexual people. Since I mostly consume YouTube this is a problem for me. It's always lesbian women, gay men, trans women and less often trans men (edit: the trans people are usually monosexual or don't talk about being bisexual much, there's two exceptions off the top of my head who I've linked in this post.) There's nothing wrong with that but where is everything else? Why don't I get suggested content about bisexual people? Rarely does it happen.

Even if someone is non-binary they are usually a lesbian as well and they have that kind of 'cultural background.' I'm aware of a few non-binary channels from over the years but usually they make other content or are very small channels or have since come out as trans men. I feel like very few of them are relatable to me as well in some kind of cultural or age sense (but even then we're talking about barely anyone in the first place.) Only recent exception I guess is F1nn who recently came out both as bisexual and genderfluid. I think that's the only new channel I've come across in probably years now lol. I'm sure they're all on tiktok right but I don't use that website or want to really. The format isn't really what I'm looking for the clips are so short. It's very different.

Edit: Another thing which I think creates the [BEEP] + non-binary + trans bubble is LGB people can be transphobic sometimes (like with straight cisgender people,) so trans people sometimes feel safer in their own spaces and also being trans has a bunch of unique issues obviously. Then with non-binary people both binary trans people and LGB people can have issues. Even the subreddit I just found lol for bisexual adults has comments in one thread that are criticising non-binary people. A lot of those comments got removed by the mods but someone was like:

Hey, welcome to r/bisexual if you'd like kinder and more supportive advice! 💜

This sub lacks basic 🌈 knowledge, manners and empathy.

I've got a NB kid and man it's real, and comes w a lot of pain due to people's ignorance. Being bi can also be very painful. Would they be able to see a 🌈 aware therapist? This pain shouldn't be on you, or on them w/out support.

And I was wary after stumbling on this post whether that would be a thing there because these more niche smaller subs that attract an older audience can be less tolerant. Which sucks because I am older but in my age range (30s,) there's far less understanding or people who are out.

There's also some weird ongoing debate about whether bisexuality includes attraction to non-binary people. A lot of bisexual people think it should, but some are very against the idea to the point of well this screenshot I just found:



Then there's a kind of split between bisexual and pansexual when it comes to this and it's all very tedious really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiuHsugRgNQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2Xtp3pHjWw

Some people think bisexual and pansexual are synonyms but I've often seen a definition for pansexual which is essentially being attracted to people regardless of gender. Like gender isn't relevant to attraction. Kat Blaque - who is straight also went into the differences for her dating men as a trans woman from what I remember her saying - generally bisexuals aren't necessarily going to be into her categorically like there are bisexual people who are not attracted to any trans people but she assumes pansexual guys will be (so it's kind of like an emphasis I suppose):



There is a bisexual culture too sort of but it gets absorbed into lesbian culture mostly. Same with non-binary culture it gets absorbed into lesbian culture to some extent, and bisexual culture also gets absorbed into non-binary and trans culture and of course the label [BEEP] has become popular as an umbrella term so there's that as well. And then bisexual men are just almost invisible anyway. There are a few famous ones in the music industry like Billie Joe from Green Day. I feel like it was a lot more visible with the emo kind of thing in the 2000s - even though not everyone associated with that was bisexual. But then it kind of disappeared again. And obviously she made a video about that:



This kind of goes back to David Bowie too although he kind of flipflopped on calling himself bisexual. And it was definitely very seperate during the Gia Carangi kind of era because it's highlighted here:

In her adolescent years, Carangi found the attention she sought from other teenage girls, befriending them by sending flowers.[3] While attending Abraham Lincoln High School, Carangi bonded with "the Bowie kids", a group of obsessive David Bowie fans who emulated Bowie's "defiantly weird, high-glam" style.[3] Carangi was drawn to Bowie for his fashion preferences and his ambiguous gender play and outspoken bisexuality.[3] One of Carangi's friends later spoke of her "tomboy persona", describing her relaxed openness about her sexuality as reminiscent of the character Cay in the 1985 film Desert Hearts.[3] Carangi and her "bi-try Bowie-mad" friends hung out in Philadelphia's gay clubs and bars. Though she's associated with the lesbian community, she did not want to take up "the accepted lesbian style."[3]

But overall I guess bisexual culture is less developed because it's newer. As this comment says:

Not trying to minimize the issue, but I wouldnt get too hung up on this. The gay and lesbian communities, especially in places like NYC, have had decades to establish themselves, whereas the bisexual movement has, to my perception, only really picked up steam in the last 10-20 years or so. We'll get there, it's just gonna take time and effort to carve out spaces of our own.

There are lots of bi communities, they just aren't explicitly labeled bi. The bisexual male community hangs out in polyamory, kink, and some nerd spaces.

Yeah I think so like emo and goth subcultures tend to have more bisexual men floating around I think. That's the stereotype anyway. But these cultures are sort of dead nowadays in most places. I didn't personally meet any bisexual men in nerd spaces either. A bunch of people who came out as trans women then or later, one non-binary person. Mostly straight men a few gay guys one bisexual woman. I met some other bisexual women too at uni but not from a nerdy/geeky background. When I say that I mean like one of the bisexual women was studying a video game related subject and she was into anime and doing cosplay and going to cons and stuff like that.

At one point as I've said a guy on my course was questioning why 'all the women on this course are lesbians' and tagged me and none of them were as far as I knew. There were a couple of women I never talked to so maybe they were but there weren't many women in the first place and most of them were straight or not open about it anyway online and they dated guys and he knew that he had most of them added on facebook as well. He also tagged me and one other person specifically and I'd had relationships that I'd spoken about on facebook with guys. I'm not a lesbian and there was one bisexual woman who was engaged to a man and very open about that on her facebook. So he was literally just basing this off of ??? vibes or people not being open to date him I guess. I was a bit more feminine presenting then too but never did wear makeup. I used to dye my hair unnatural colours but this was before that became an LGBT+ stereotype. I actually think the stereotype is older because it gets brought up in Stone Butch Blues, but straight people didn't know about it then and neither did I lol. It was just considered an alternative subculture thing. And my hair was always long as well.

But as for guys I've never met a bisexual guy irl afaik. Off the top of my head.

If you go far back enough it was just merged into gay and lesbian cultures and people would go between the straight and gay worlds. And sometimes even mix genders like Rachilde was bisexual - but she always denied being a lesbian sometimes very strongly - and she mostly hung out with gay men and she had a complicated relationship with gender where I think she sometimes described herself as a gay man but then othertimes as a woman. She had lesbian contacts and friends but I think didn't really want to be centrally part of that culture I think because of her complicated relationship with gender again and also attraction to men.

Obviously none of the current labels existed then though. And there's a tradition of like certain bisexual women hanging out with gay men as well even now. I've noticed anecdotally. And then you obviously get the bisexual women who get absorbed into the lesbian culture historically there was no differentiation there really until there was.

And then you get people like Byron and Shakespeare but a lot of these cases are kind of vague and obviously nobody used the term bisexual back then anyway. And these aren't necessarily good role models either lol. Byron especially was a bit infamous. Or like Mary Read and Anne Bonny these women are pirates. It's fun and edgy when they're fictional. But these are straight up pirates. Violent career criminals lol. but yeah.

And there are a bunch of other famous women who had relationships with men and women. I think also because being gay was either illegal or frowned upon until very recently (and it still isn't seen as OK by everyone even now but comparatively,) people like to argue that nobody was bisexual because you don't know who was just gay or lesbian and going along with a relationship to not draw attention to themselves. It's the same with women who lived as men you don't know 100% in every case why they did that.

Evidently Rush are a 'bisexual band' I didn't decide that someone online did and this is kind of an old thread too from the early 2010s:

Is Rush a gay band?

Bunch of queers at the show

No, they are bi.

Lots of lesbians

Did he do a poll do you think? I don't know.

I still love this comment like:

Not gay, def bi though like stated.

Not gay bisexual though for sure. Like they don't explain why but it's just definitely the case.

I think I saw some images on Tumblr of Rush with bisexual stage lighting so. Clearly they're onto something. I don't think you can call bands bisexual though. And I don't think any members of Rush are/were or haven't openly said they are so.

And then nobody can sit on chairs correctly:



And I do actually fit that stereotype lol. And that's basically the culture. Destroying furniture - one chair at a time. No I really have destroyed 3 chairs by accident somehow.

This is a thing? O.o Because I'm just thinking of the weird way L sits in Death Note, I think I remember that being a thing. :p

LOL yes. he was the og:



So you also have on twitter people arguing in favour of labels like bi-lesbian. You also have 'mostly straight.' people. Mostly straight isn't straight though and 'mostly lesbian' isn't lesbian and we're at the point where I'm frequently encountering these as seperate categories in research. So even researchers are pointing this out now lol.

Kristen Stewart recently called herself a lesbian in an interview and then when the director of the film said she's bisexual she remembered she's bisexual lol and said oh yeah I am too I go both ways. OK so people were uploading this on twitter



It's not in this clip it's from this interview though or the same day where they're wearing these outfits. There's all these clips on various different channels with them wearing the same outfit and talking to different people and I can't find the same one from twitter. Anyway she said that.

The comments on twitter were all like 'Kristen Stewart bi-lesbian confirmed' lol. There's lots of discourse about that.

In the past she's also defined herself as bisexual. She has had several relationships with men. I feel like because she's so big in the lesbian community and she mostly has relationships with women now, and most of her relationships with men or teen boys happened when she was a teenager and in her early 20s - there's a kind of sense where it's like 'this makes more practical sense now'

And a lot of people don't really want to be bisexual because there's a lot of stigma associated with that and a lot of policing of the label at the same time. And of all labels really in the LGBT+ community. So people tend to avoid it. People also often use sapphic now instead of bisexual so that also merges female bisexual and lesbian women and some non-binary people.

[Nyctophilia]

I found myself in the position where I was defending myself against 'the fujoshi allegations' why? Why did I feel the need to? And also what is wrong with fujoshis? And after much research, data gathering, and philosophical pondering I have come to the conclusion for this video that the vilification of the fujoshi is a hate band wagon at best, and misogynistic, racist and transphobic at worse.

Cool video. Which I've not finished watching so it might actually not be cool. But I liked the intro and the fact they're talking about this.

This might not apply to every subgroup of afab people who are into m/m stuff but in my investigations (and I don't know if she brings this up in the video,) people who read slash fanfiction on ao3 are more likely to be non-binary and bisexual. So that's not quite the same as BL but it's a very similar demographic I think. I don't say this based on anecdote - I found on a bunch of websites and blogs links to a few surveys that have been done on ao3.

In most cases, non-binary people were more likely than those who identified as men or women to be fans of M/M.

Heterosexual male respondents were hugely less likely to read or write slash than any other group, although this may be down to small sample size for that demographic. The largest group for both readers and creators of M/M was bi/pansexual women,followed by heterosexual women and women on the asexual spectrum.

https://centrumlumina.tumblr.com/pos...ale-slash-fans

However, among the 10,005 respondents to the AO3 census survey, the proportion of M/M fans who consider themselves both heterosexual and female is between 25% and 36% (depending on how precisely the terms are defined). Respondents in that demographic were less likely than average to be fans of M/M. Of course, this data has its limitations, but these results are supported by many past surveys.

So I find the insistence that this group are all women and all straight very annoying. People will just ignore this to make a point about 'straight women fetishising men.' I think so they're 'safe' because they're not part of the LGBT+ community. But it's not true in the majority of cases.

And even sometimes people who are trans eg: Contrapoints who is a trans woman will lean into this idea like in one of her patreon videos where she was discussing the book girls who like boys who like boys. She did at least mention that there were a significant number of lesbian identified women who read this stuff in the West. But bisexuality and non-binary identity was completely absent really. Even though she had a section called the genderfluid gaze. Who did you get the gaze from lol? We don't know. But she likes it. And she talks about that in the video. Which was why I paid for her patreon to see that video lol. Because I saw her mention that on twitter. Somehow in spite of that it was kind of removed and all about straight and lesbian women and straight men and gay men. And this is the kind of [BEEP] lol. It's not exclusive to her obviously but it was frustrating.

Edit: It creates this insecurity. Especially if you're not acting on your sexuality irl for any reason. So you feel the need to constantly broadcast your sexuality to justify it to others. And I'm doing it in this post. Which no one is reading lol. This is basically a diary. I've always talked about men more though and I am attracted to men more romantically. Also I feel like there's a sense where it's OK to 'objectify' men slightly more culturally speaking. I've spoken about that before.

You're in this weird situation where people are like 'don't objectify women.' But also 'you're a fake bisexual because you're not talking about women in a sexual context.'

What the [BEEP] is that?

You have to do it in just the right not male gaze way. Hmm.

It's also very ironic because at multiple points in my life irl people have insisted that I'm attracted to women or even a lesbian when I'm not. In fact my straight female bully sexually harassed me at one point to 'prove' this. I can safely say I was not attracted to her at all ever.

If you want to say I'm fetishising people though that's fine I mean I'm clearly kind of a nightmare. I fetishise everyone though. Just wait I'm coming for you too. No I don't at this point think I'll ever 'be coming' for very masculine people with short hair and huge builds. I'm sure they're crying about that lol. They're safe.

Also bisexual women are usually reported to be more attracted to men than heterosexual women are. So I don't actually find it surprising that most of the slash fanfiction is written by bisexual/pansexual women. They're more into both in most studies. At least sexually. And probably more likely to be seeking out certain content and creating it. So there you go.

As a teenager I read way more slash fanfiction but never called myself a fujoshi it was very much considered an insult though I know some people even then used it as a self identifier.

Another reason I didn't is the term seemed more associated with Yaoi/BL and Asian works specifically and although I read and watched a few things and some fanfiction based on Asian video games and anime/manga that wasn't really the majority of what I read. I was mostly reading original m/m fiction that was uploaded free on websites like adultfanfiction.net (it's ironic because it's a fanfiction site but I only really read original fiction on that website lol,) some site called nifty gay archive from time to time which I think is less associated with women and more an actual gay male site - that's how I discovered certain fetishes that aren't for me but were interesting like microphilia and macrophilia. There was this story I read with this tiny guy lol. And just Western fanfics on fanfiction.net.

I also started out reading bandfics in my early-mid teens before trying to stop doing that for ethical reasons lol (but as I've said before I fucked up on a few seperate occasions later and ended up reading fanfics about real people... I try not to though.) I occasionally read straight works too during this time and books and stuff but it was mostly m/m stuff during that period. My sexual fantasies were also mostly like that. But I would also write stuff that was androgynous/intersex.

To be clear I'm part of the same broader demographic though or was moreso when I was younger so not distancing myself from that. I just get irritated by how the image is purely just Asian stuff. I live in a Western country man. I've never just consumed East Asian stuff to the exclusion of everything else.

Then in my late teens/early 20s I switched to consuming a lot more straight stuff in a kind of 50/50 balance I guess when it came to written porn not romance. And reading a lot more straight romance instead of slash romance in fanfiction. Now the ratio with romance has kind of flipped from my teen years where it's like 80% straight 20% gay male lets say with romance.

And with audio stuff I listen to women occasionally too. I've realised I don't have a gender preference with voices. It's just whatever my mood is + specific people have hot voices but not gendered. I also look up images of women sometimes but lately not really looking up random images as much that happens now and then. Otherwise I look at images of specific people who are usually guys or genderswapped images of guys I find attractive.

If I'm doing 'things' though often I'll consume a bunch of different stuff anyway. The stuff I go back to the most atm are actually this one woman's audios where they're kinks I have but she's talking to a guy that's the set up she's talking to the listener but I don't self insert as the guy/listner. I imagine I'm kind of a third person I guess and enjoy the kink aspect but then I also like her voice and like her sapphic audios and I've listened to a bunch of those. But with the stuff that's for submissive guys. They involve themes of them changing gender or sexuality and having sex with guys but then she does some of the voices of the submissive guys with her female voice too like she tells the guy what to say and does an impression, and I go back to those parts a lot too. So it's like lol. There's a lot of different stuff happening gender and sexuality wise.

I listen to a lot of stuff recorded by submissive guys but the ones with that specific woman are probably my favourites so for the past several months I always listen to them at some point, because of the fetish themes even though I'm not the target audience lol. And then, there's another audio by another woman I like that I rediscovered and first found many years ago and that one is very weird in terms of gendered stuff happening. I'm not going to go into all the details. It's almost unique in terms of stuff happening in it lol. That I've come across anyway.

When it comes to sexual stuff I don't read fanfiction for that. I have very specific tastes and kinks too a lot of fanfiction doesn't include themes I'm into and also the way most fanfiction is written is different to straight up written porn and it it doesn't really work for that purpose ime.

It's kind of a weird thing where in childhood all of my romantic and sexual memories involved women or girls - some of them were quite fetishistic though. But then like in my teen years that kind of flipped. But I would still do things like mess around with female Sims and download very sexualised outfits for them. But it was always direct I guess the attraction/arousal I had. Watching music videos and such. I didn't ship female characters in shows together or try and read fanfiction about them during that period of my life like I would with male characters. I also think I'm less romantically interested in women so that's a big part of why I didn't do that. Like it was more sexual. I did randomly became obsessed with this older girl in school but I still don't know what the [BEEP] that was. I didn't have sexual thoughts about any of my real life crushes during my teen years anyway so.

Audio stuff has been interesting because there are more romantic elements sometimes with stuff with women. I think that helped me to integrate things more than with the written porn I read which was more fetish-like.

With fanfiction I really struggle to find femslash stuff I like. I don't know why but almost always when I look up a ship that seems interesting to me while watching a TV show or something it just doesn't exist. So apparently I have very idiosyncratic tastes. Or if it does exist there's less barely anything written about it. But this all happened and I wrote about it lol while this forum was down at some point (yeah I guess I'll just quote everything even the parts that are irrelevant. And I'm not editing this I guess. So just whatever cringe I was writing when I was writing this: )

Lol I just searched something about Jenna Ortega and one of the suggested google results was this:

Is Jenna Ortega married to Gwendoline Christie?

What!?

Why is that something a lot of people are searching lol.

Contrary to the gossip circulating in fan circles, Jenna Ortega and Gwendoline Christie are not united in matrimony nor involved romantically. This misconception gained traction when Jenna Ortega casually referred to Gwendoline Christie as her 'spouse' in public commentary.

Oh OK lol.



Oh yeah I see why they're doing this because Cate Blanchett Galadriel vibes.

People always use this music for these videos. It's the same music here:



With the captions and emoji. Yeah I know but it was a recent example I found.

I love how that's the only video on that YouTube channel lol.



They always do the same kind of editing thing like either the emojis and text and like that clip of the rainbow glitch TV thing pops up a lot too. But they didn't use the same music here lol so:

I'm living for these videos lmaoo this is like the only Steven Wilson fan-service on YouTube

There's a bit more on tumblr.

Oh wait Jenna Ortega and Gwendoline Christie worked together on the show Wednesday I actually forgot about that lol so it seemed even more random to me.

Christina Ricci's character on that show has Pamela Isley vibes lol.



I still want a non cheesy live action Poison Ivy film Hollywood

*coughs loudly*

*starts creating Christmas list of wanted TV shows*

I like the dynamic between Wednesday and Enid on that show but they're like high school students so I want someone to create something similar with adults where they're in a romantic relationship or there's at least lots of subtext and screen time.

Romantic relationship would probably be better because under normal circumstances it wouldn't matter and fanfiction/fan art would take over but this is sapphic so can't rely on that based on every pairing I've ever looked up ever on ao3.
April and Ann from parks and rec are similar but not quite that. Like a character that's really positive and girly with a cynical goth character.

I guess they don't have to be both be female but have to have a sort of '[BEEP] vibe' at least and long hair.

I've also been thinking this for a while because of some post on gatekeeping yuri lol.

I also would like a TV show with a woman who looks kind of like [lets be vague for a change] with very long hair and she sometimes wears glasses and she's like really traditional and basically [that person] but then she's actually a lesbian and has to come to terms with that and gets seduced by some woman and she's all like ohh noo. *Existential crisis*

I also would still like some kind of TV show about an androgynous guy with long hair and glasses who looks like this (let's not be vague because too hot):



Any TV show would do but specifically also one where they're some kind of secret 'crossdresser' and a university lecturer and he's like ohh noo *existential crisis* One of their students finds out and seduces th- no wait this is just porn.

OK let's go back. Stupid sex drive.

So they're a librarian and then someone comes in to take out a book just before they close and then- nope just porn again.

So they're my girlfriend.

*insert plot here*

They should be a librarian though.

I really need a show with a kind of nerdy skinny guy with long hair and glasses and he's also a woman.

I want some more shows about aliens who are disgusing themselves as Humans on Earth and they're hot.

You understand.

Thank you universe in advance.

I never got around to watching Doom Patrol I remember watching the trailer for the first season years ago and thought it seemed interesting and liked Negative Man but I thought I saw Michelle Gomez in this video I just found and I was right. She pops up all over the place lol.

I mean I wasn't watching it full screen. I was trying to find out who the character with the glasses was (not Michelle Gomez's character they were only on screen for a moment and I still don't have an answer lol.)



Madame Rouge. Is she just always playing a character called madam something haha?

Also she looks a bit like a fictional character I created in this image. Also looks even more like Olivia Octavius.



I find her attractive sometimes like while watching Sabrina and in this gif:



Please yell at me I guess.





Oh.

*ends up watching clip with Rita Farr and Madame Rouge*

So there has to be fanfiction of this pairing right?

"15 fanfics."

Yeah that tracks.

There are officially more Jesus/Satan fanfics then this. On the other hand I was always surprised by how few there were. Like probably 30 or something when I first looked back in 2017 or whenever it was and most of them written by the same two authors.

I was sure this time had to be different though.

What are you guys all writing?

Well Star Trek fanfiction I guess.

On Instagram, several fans of the Doom Patrol TV series have proposed that there should be a romance between Madame Rouge and Rita Farr,

???

This is useless let me know when people are writing fanfiction.

Romantic relationship would probably be better because under normal circumstances it wouldn't matter and fanfiction/fan art would take over but this is sapphic so can't rely on that based on every pairing I've ever looked up ever on ao3.

Lol even when one of the cast members involved knows and brings it up it doesn't influence anything:

"I know that there's a lot of online stuff about Darcy and Loki, that's been brought to my attention, which is so great," said Dennings. "So I'll hope for that."

"I think it would be exciting for a few people on Tumblr. Do it for the Tumblr"

Which OK fair enough but still.

I love Kat Dennings lol:



That is Kat Dennings old YouTube channel btw lol.

But there are thousands? of Loki/Darcy fanfics. It's actually not anywhere near the most popular ship in that fandom though lol.

My sex drive was pretty high that day I'm not in this mood now so it's a bit weird lol.

I still want Michelle Gomez to yell at me. I actually don't she just looks hot in that gif. It's inexplicable.

The Kat Dennings cheese dancing trampoline video is giving Sheogorath so have to stan:





Lol I just watched that Jenna Ortega and Gwendoline Christie video the whole way through because I didn't watch all of it before and Luis Guzman's expressions when she's flirting with Gwendoline are so funny. Maybe it's just the editing though.



Yeah I think it's mostly the editing in the other video that makes it funnier.

Did you know when Gwendoline got the roll for the principal she was very happy because she got to wear makeup? In the past she always played male roles because of her height and facial structure.

That's cuteee

That is cute.

As a straight girl who is quite sometimes assumed to be a lesbian this really bothers me. Joking with or complementing female friends does NOT make you gay. Only Jenna can know if she actually feels attracted to women and only she can decide if she wants to share how she feels, whatever way that may be.

THIS!! For the longest time I was only friends with guys because social outcasts and such. So I never had many female friends and I never learned what's a standard girl friend is, how to compliment girls, or friends, for that matter, unless it's guys. I'm a tomboy more than anything so that doesn't help having people shove sexuality stuff down my throat. I just wish I could call girls pretty, because some women very much are, and not have them think I'm attracted to them in that way.

I'm genuinely confused by fake flirting. It makes it very confusing to know when people are actually into you or not. I wouldn't assume that if someone just said 'you're pretty' or something like that. But if they were doing it constantly, and holding my hand etc like she's doing in the video and stuff like that I think it could get confusing.

I've seen many girls in real life comment flirty stuff on each other's instagram posts, so to me this doesn't really prove she's gay (girls usually call each other "cute," "wife," etc)

Yes it happens all the time but it makes things very confusing.

"I just want to call my friends wife and make out with them at parties and maybe have sex with them sometimes and why are they questioning my sexuality gosh."

Reminds me of when 2 straight girls I knew said decently loudly in a hallway (in front of one of their boyfriends mind you) that they should eat each other out and that it would be really hot and I've since lost most if not all my respect for those two

That was a joke reddit.

I can't really flirt anyway though.

I'm trying to figure out if there are cultural differences or it's just that I'm weird and prob have undiagnosed autism:

My one experience with British vs American flirting tells me that the Brits are way more direct and what Americans consider being friendly the Brits considering serious flirting.

The rest of the story-while in London waiting at the train station for my wife, a 30 something British woman was standing close to me. I made some random comment about the weather, typical American friendliness. We chatted for a minute or so in what I would consider normal friendly American banter and as I was ending the conversation about to walk off she said "are you up to bonk?" It was so unexpected, I just nervously stammered something and walked off.

If only it had been that easy with American girls 30 years ago!

Yeah I don't think that's normal here. It would make sense if she was drunk but then he probably would have noticed that. I've seen/been part of some weird drunk conversations.

Lol this thread I found is funny. Well the comments are the OP was deleted:

Is it generally not normal for British men to compliment their partners much?

ugh as one of those habitually positive Americans, it's not that i am not being genuine. any and every compliment is absolutely true. it's just that i tend to underweight or ignore or avoid bringing up any negatives because why upset someone unnecessarily? it's different for things like feedback sessions at work or something, of course.

so then i end up with only positive things to say and I'm sure non-Americans are confused as hell.

edit: another way to put it is that i seem to have this innate desire to make other people feel positively. im a woman, and I also don't know if it's partially ingrained societal expectations (at least in the US)

You sound really great! As an Englishman who hates the competition of "who can be the grumpiest about pretty much nothing" that happens in every local pub (but particularly in the North), I much prefer the American approach of positivity.

English men over a certain age have a weird thing of trying to never seem enthused about anything. They could meet a childhood friend they hadn't seen in twenty years and all you'd get is a head nod and "alright." Then a complaint about the local council.

Americans HUG and SMILE, and that's GOOD FOR YOU.

HAHA i went to uni (as you'd call it) with a brit with whom i got to be pretty good friends. he moved back to the uk after, but we've stayed in touch over the past decade. just did a video call to catch up with him the other day after not speaking for about a year beyond the odd texts here and there and i was so excited to see him! and i said as much with this massive smile on my face. dude barely nodded and said "yes it's been a while, how have you been?" with this poker face. took me a second to remember he was just being british.

it also made me realize how much my expectations have been warped as a result of being around almost exclusively americans during this pandemic (my work is quite international so normally i travel abroad at least once every other month if not more but that hasn't happened since 2020).

Sheesh... typical American.

If you don't have something negative to say, why say anything at all?

lol.

This is what makes Americans special though tbf, we are far more cynical and miserable and it's not necessarily better.

Yeah my favourite teacher in school was also probably the happiest person I've ever met and American.

Most British people just aren't that comfortable using big, superlative positive language, especially when we actually feel strongly about something. It's easy to say that a bag of chips or something is 'absolutely amazing', but when it comes to really meaningful stuff - like how great our significant other looks, or something - many of us default to understatement.

Some people are talking about grumpy old bastards who only complain and are never happy with anything, but I think that's another phenomenon entirely and distracts from the main point, which is that for many Brits, even when they genuinely love something, their mode of expression is muted. They're still expressing themselves when they say something that might sound very 'blah' to American sensibilities, you just have to learn to translate it from 'British understatement' to a language you can understand. And/or talk to them about it so they can also work on expressing themselves better to you.

I think it depends on class and whether you're English a lot as well. Also where in England you live. As a bunch of the comments suggested Scottish people give more compliments. I feel uncomfortable telling close family members I love them and stuff like that and also don't give compliments very often irl. But I also think I have schizoid traits. I sometimes communicate differently online.

[Nyctophilia]

Ugh the whatever podcast.

But this debate about age gaps in adult relationships is so tedious.

Yes most men are most attracted to women in the 18-22 year old aged range (and younger actually,) sort of pointless to deny that but people do. No it doesn't make you a pedophile (but some of the teenage girls many men are attracted to are illegal and women are always going to side eye you for that.)

You are likely contributing to this statistic though:

63% of men in their 20s are single compared to 34% of women

Although some of that is the increasing number of [BEEP] women who won't tolerate the bs they're seeing on social media (women are more sexually fluid.)

The video lol: "Men don't shame women for your preferences"

Yeah men online spend a lot of time shaming women, women spend a lot of time shaming women too. Men don't shame men as much (although they will if they're gender non-conforming,) so that's the difference lol.

Reading random comments online.

As a woman who doesn't complain about men who enjoy doing stereotypical male activities or who like offering help to women out of genuine kindness/desire (because why the hell would or should I not appreciate help/kindness???) I am both scared of the future of chronically underappreciated/unsatisfied men for all of our sakes and appalled/disappointed by the present women out there who are so self-absorbed, obsessed with proving their ability to be independent/feminist and so sadly lacking in any self-awareness or understanding/empathy for others that they drive me/the rest of us insane!

the women who promote this logic are always surrounded by the biggest yes-men around. None of which can fight, which makes me question why that mode of masculinity is so heavily promoted by these types outside of ego boosts

All the women complaining about "toxic masculinity" just wait to see if a whole generation grows up unappreciated, not valued, and purposeless. Those will be dangerous people.

I'm just not very scared of men. It might be genetic. My mum once attacked a random flasher.

I don't see most of them as being a threat so I don't have to validate behaviour that doesn't interest me personally. It's fine if they want to be masculine but I'm not a cheerleader for behaviour that doesn't interest me.

I mean it's ironic because I have social anxiety lol but I think most men are a bigger threat to themselves. Which isn't good but one way or another I'm not going to do anything that's not instinctive.

I think that's kind of insulting too isn't it? You validate them because you're scared? Not because you actually like it?

LET HIM COOK!!!

Well he can cook if he wants because I hate that.

My wife lets me do all of the man things, she also likes letting me cook because I'm more experienced with it.

Hmm lol.

True story - my gf saw me watching your videos and immediately assumed the worst so I had her watch with me (Are Women ok), figured she'd find you humorous too. Nope she hated it, in fact, she said she didn't want me to watch your videos anymore.

Broke up with her last week.

I find her somewhat entertaining though I don't follow or agree with many of her cultural views, but I would assume the vast majority of women are uninterested in her content or actively hostile especially if younger and she mentioned her viewing statistics before which were an absurd ratio like 90% male or something.

I just wanna use a drill! I don't care about feminism I just love drills. I love making it go brrr brrr when I pick it up. Love stud finding with a little magnet. It?s great.

Is someone stopping you from drilling things? I don't get it.

Why are these guys like this? If you just wanted to drill stuff there's plenty of stuff you could do but it sounds like a lot of guys just want validation.

I've never felt so minimized yet validated at the same time. ️<3 Good stuff

Let's not pretend you wouldn't let her step on you if she could!

seems like you don't listen to her words. Instead of submitting to us like we need you women to do. You all still want to step on us, and you still want to be above us. Stop trying to be the man. Accept your place as a woman. It's not a bad thing.

Lol.

That's hilarious.

Guy here, i like futanari

I don't see how that's related lol but sounds good.

Yes. Give us the jar. This is max stat accuracy. Women don't make men feel like men anymore.

I think it's a turn off. Reminds me of this discussion I saw earlier on reddit too:

Here in the states lots of American girls LOVE British guys, and just wondering if the feeling is similar in the UK. And because I'm a narcissistic American

Personally I think American guys wouldn't be able to 'handle' a British girl.

I'm a northern girl and let's just say we're not exactly ladies lol that along with the dry humour doesn't seem to fit with Americans. The guys there seem so easily offended and it looks like you're always wanting validation especially for your 'man card'. It's off putting.

especially for your 'man card'

That's a new one to me... what do you mean by that?

Can't attack their masculinity.

Most guys in the UK are thick skinned and don't care about how manly they look if they're having fun. In the US guys seem way too insecure about it and I think I'd end up offending them.

Oh you mean like wearing a pink tutu on a night out sort of thing?

Yeah I guess. Even just little digs at them I'd be worried about offending them.

For example I call my bf princess a lot and joke about buying him tampons. He will shoot back with something and we laugh it off.

Except I don't think this is just an American thing.

"Me and my boyfriend were doing .." not
"My bf was doing and I was there"

Deluded and crazy from step 1. Is this how she behaves when you're at the gloryhole together?

Well that... Escalated quickly.

Dude all the relationships I've been happiest in wer with horrible women who used me for house projects.

Why describe them as horrible then? It sounds like the relationship was irrelevant. Maybe consider a job where you get paid to do something like that instead of seeking validation from horrible women.

i think the lady is cuter for trying and failing miserably. butt whatever.

I was wondering if someone was going to say this lol.

I try so hard to like shoe on head. But she takes non serious, meme ish content on social media and makes broad generalizations of gender that ultimately support misogynistic systems in the name of "defending men".

It's difficult because she makes content to appeal to men and the stuff she says is important for a lot of men, but most women just can't be cheerleaders.

I know you're all 'independent' and shit, but do you have THE COURAGE to depend on someone?! I swear people don't trust anyone with anything anymore. 'We don't have a deep connection' YA THINK SHERLOCK!!?!

i dont know why some women dont get that. I mean i know i can do most shit. But why should i want to if some nice helpful man will do it faster, easier (bcs strong) sometimes better and with much more pleasure. Why would i torture myself and break nails if all it takes is a beer a god meal and a..nice dessert?

It don't think it's always a trust thing some people feel incompetent and useless if someone else does things for them. I understand the mentality well. When I'm reminded of things I can't do, I'll end up feeling bad about it. Probably wouldn't make for a healthy dynamic in a romantic relationship.

I guess the trust thing plays into avoidant attatchment styles as well though maybe. Either way avoidants tend to pride themselves on self sufficiency and hate asking for help because it makes them feel weak. Especially dismissive avoidants eg:

Man, my ex just could NOT do this, even though we'd talked about it. One day, she asked me to unpack her cooler while she went upstairs and changed, and her asking for help just about bowled me over.

Unfortunately, I only need one hand to count how many times it happened.

Lol:

PSA: Accepting help makes others feel good

Hello Avoidants,

I just wanted to remind you all that often times, accepting/asking for help from others makes that other person feel good, not burdened. When you/others assist one another, you are putting down a building block towards a bond.

So try asking for help today from someone :)

A lot of people also put this down to ideology with women which I think is a mistake.

"coddle me" no actually i dont want my gf to act like some weak defenseless moron out of pity

That's not what she said.

If you can open a jar as she said, but ask your boyfriend to do it for you anyway like a child, unless that is attractive to you for some reason - and I think it is to some women - it would basically be out of pity.

Conversely, what do "women in captivity" need?

Well I just started putting Sims on desert islands in The Sims 3 and then they'd fish for food and grow food etc. What I really want is a game that combines the best part of survival games with life simulation games. Life sim games aren't simmy enough and The Sims doesn't really have the capacity for survival stuff at least without mods and even then the hunting mods for The Sims 3 could be better. I downloaded a mod that allows you to make candles too for later. I haven't really thought through the limitations of the challenge though. Like am I going to gradually build stuff maybe. But it's hard with the limited gameplay + mod options. There is one that lets you cut down trees for wood.

Other than that I downloaded a cool desert world recently because I like those. I made a Sim who is employed in the fortune teller career but I gave them the lucky trait and they did the lottery and got rich too quickly. I probably should have avoided that because it's more fun when it's hard. There was a mobile home kind of area so I set up the fortune teller thing near there (because there wasn't a rabbit hole in the world already.) And I moved the Sim in there. I like mobile homes and tiny houses a lot too.

There's also a diner nearby so maybe I'll make a new save and get someone a job there too. The issue generally is that aquiring wealth in that game is a bit too easy. I should probably look into modding it to be more difficult at some point or something. Need the game to be riskier in general. Maybe some illness stuff.

I also downloaded a tiny arid apocalypse kind of Fallout inspired world with no roads. I have a Sim who I'm going to make an inventor. There was a bunker in the world that looked cool from the outside but unfortunately everything underground was super white and minimalistic futuristic style instead of grungy like above ground which would have worked better. I don't really like decorating stuff in The Sims much so cba changing it so probably just won't play on that lot.

Something like that but with better attention to detail could be awesome. The best world I've found for The Sims 3 is boroughsburg based on New York. It has a lot of custom content (mods,) but it's amazing. Feels like GTA or something. There's even train sounds in this one apartment next to the train tracks. I made a private detective Sim. They adopted a cool looking alien bird called spotted sixam. Well perhaps it's not an alien bird but Sixam is an alien planet in The Sims universe.

There's a bit of a pattern presently.

So I spend my time doing that (also playing Runescape,) when I'm not editing videos and ranting about stuff.

Oh in reality? No lol. Reality is a mostly boring place filled with uncomfortable gender roles and scary people. Well one of my favourite 'adult entertainers' just uploaded a submissive audio. He's been mostly uploading dominant stuff recently woo. omg it has strap on stuff in too. <3

So in other words never mind lol.

[Nyctophilia]

Lol someone responded to some comment I posted ages ago.

The idea that anyone thinks Andrew Tate has sex appeal blows my mind. He's incredibly unattractive imo. I don't think he has sex appeal for most women either seems to be mostly good at tricking men into thinking he's more popular than he is.

I don't think it's about looks, maybe ppl are attracted to his confidence and charisma in a world full of emasculated simps. I'm not one of them btw, I dislike Tate and can't see the appeal, I'm just trying to make sense of it lol.

Lol I wasn't just talking about looks either. Everything about him seems unappealing to me. He's like the antithesis of attractive to me.

He's uncreative, obsessed with masculinity, misogynistic, the opposite of long hair, the opposite of slim, insanely jacked, cult of gym, paranoid, arrogant, excessively materialistic, abusive to women, psychopathic, former pimp, hypocrite, sexually neurotic, unappealing extrinsic religious orientation, has adopted the insecure defensive form of masculinity that's common in certain groups.

He isn't confident.

This video:





It's possible to be somewhat attractive in spite of some of these traits like the guy from twitter I found who is a materialistic narcissist who's creative, writes science fiction, appreciates art, and obsessed with femininity. But there's nothing attractive to me about any of his traits. Not only is he sexually boring but also just a terrible Human that makes you lose faith in Humanity.

About the only thing going for him is he's reasonably intelligent I think? And for other people who care about this he's athletic but his build is unattractive to most women. Other than that he's rich so I guess some people just want money. And he's not this guy. Maybe. Probably is off camera:



But realistically I do know some women are attracted to these things. It still blows my mind.

Some psychopathic women and then they complain about how they're all fucking them over, lying, trying to destroy them lol.

But you know I'm barely attracted to men so whatever. It wasn't going to make sense.

Edit: Wow lol. I'm starting to think he's in a competition to make himself as unattractive as possible to me in the shortest possible timespan:

Imagine being a full grown man and being excited by cooking.

Not war.

Not conquest.

No. You get adrenaline from making an omelette.

Fucking nerd.

Chefs are worms.

OMG WHAT IF THE MEATS OVER DONE OMG 😮

Who cares.

Hardly getting knocked out is it.

They're trying to enslave humanity.

If you're a full grown man and enjoying:

Concerts
Sports obsessions
Getting drunk
Chasing Instagram whores
Etc

Instead of PREPARING FOR WAR AND RESISTING THE MATRIX.

You, and your bloodline will get the eternal slavery you sorely deserve.

Concerts are the best.

LGBTQ activists are paedophiles.

All of them.

Its clear to see they're demons.

If the government wasnt inept and actually cared about children, theyd investigate every single one of these "activists" and I guarantee a 99% conviction rate.

I mean this is insanity lol.

As I said it's mindblowing that anyone is theoretically attracted to him.

That's 50% of women in the UK lol:

Ranking girls 1-10 is subjective and difficult depending which autist is critiquing her, but heres the real scale.

Past 30 doesn't count they should have a child and be out of the game.

Any woman whos past 30 without kids made a mistake and is usually bitter and negative as a person.

Girls aged 18 - 29 can be ranked simply.

If youre a below a 6 you are paying half on a date.

If youre a 6 or a 7 you get free meals, free drinks, maybe a birthday present. You pay half the rent with your loser boyfriend and work a job. You are on dating apps.

If youre an 8/9 your entire life is free. You dont have dating apps you only meet men on Instagram. You live rent free in your mans house, the car you drive is from him, your spending money is from him. You do precisely zero work. Your job is to be fun and vibes and hot. Thats it.

10s is the same as an 8/9 but with a celebrity.

Thats the scale.

So girls, look at your life.

Thats how hot you are without the filters and bullshit.

"Not only do they lie and pretend I'm an enemy of females." - Andrew Tate.

LOL.

"What will happen if I turn 90+% of people against me?"

Well he wanted war right lol. It's not the war he wanted but it's the war he'll get.

I also don't think attracting women with money is impressive because they're not even attracted to you. They just want to get money out of you. So you're not attractive. In spite of everything these guys say rich women can date men who are like 40+ years younger than them too.

"Look at me I'm proof that men are more attractive with age. I have all this money I throw around and women with model looks date me for a few months before breaking up with me for some rando guy they post selfies with on instagram for an entire year." Lol

Now try it without the money and status.



It's also an insult to cults too honestly:







These songs are all about the same cult lol.

I think this is as well:



Cults are alternative power structures that appeal mostly to women because women have a harder time getting power in the current power structure. You exist within the mainstream power structure and replicate the current power structure.



I'm not saying this is good I'm just saying he's an incredibly poor parody of Satan.

His fans are all male. The ratio should be flipped like at least 70% female

Unless you're a straight woman or gay man.

eg:



She's bisexual though and increasingly terrible at appealing to women, so it's not perfect imo but you can go either way I guess. Although I'm not sure that you should in terms of expression. Otherwise you might imprison everyone who ever called you retarded and gay online haha.

"Ironically becoming the face of the red pill movement. Ironically using that influence to run for president. Ironically becoming dictator. Ironically imprisoning everyone who has ever called me gay or retarded online."

She's not idiosyncratic enough though much in the same way as Andrew. There's a real lack of creative and alternative spiritualities in these spheres. It all ends up reafirming the same order money + Abrahamic religion with edgy veneer.

can somebody explain why this is happening

Feminine people regardless of gender and sexuality like pop music. The alpha guys seem to dislike sex in general though and might be asexual. That's the impression I get from this:



"In and of itself sex is boring any man who sits and says that sex is great and sex is fun just clearly hasn't had enough sex because sex is boring, sex is a chore. Sex is like food. You don't really care unless you're really hungry and then you eat and then you don't care again." - Andrew Tate.

This is basically word for word the kind of thing I see asexuals with a sex drive post online.

"Female vaginas are disgusting." - Myron

I like how he says female vaginas. Myron is a chaser confirmed.

Tate has a sex drive but is apathetic and probably doesn't find people sexually attractive. I've never heard any of these guys express any actual attraction to women. They seem to like men as people more and dislike women as people but I doubt they're attracted to men either. Everything is a performance or based on their own masculinity. 'How does having sex with this person reflect on my own masculinity? Do I come out looking submissive/dominant, masculine/feminine.' I think this plays into most people's sexuality to some degree but not as much. I'm not convinced they're really attracted to people.

They don't have the vocabulary and hate labels so instead have to... Do what they're doing now.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36028632/

Femme/Butch/Androgyne Identity and Preferences for Femininity Across Face, Voice, and Personality Traits in Chinese Lesbian and Bisexual Women

Studies indicate that individuals preferring masculinity/femininity in one domain also prefer it in other domains. Heterosexual men and women and gay men have reported consistent preferences for masculinity/femininity across the faces and voices of their preferred sex. This study explored the femininity preferences of 417 Chinese lesbian and bisexual women in terms of face, voice pitch, vocal tract length, and personality traits and explored the effect of sexual self-labels (femme, butch, and androgyne) on these preferences. We found that lesbian and bisexual women showed a stronger preference for feminized faces, voice pitch, vocal tract length, and personality traits than masculinized versions, and these preferences were highly consistent across the four domains. Moreover, femininity preference was moderated by sexual self-labels, with butches preferring more feminine voice pitch, vocal tract length, and personality traits than femmes and androgynes. However, no significant difference was found for facial femininity preferences among different sexual self-labels. These findings present evidence of consistent femininity preference across visual, auditory, and personality traits and suggest that, regardless of sexual orientation, multiple cues may be used together when determining the attractiveness of individuals. Furthermore, these results support the hypothesis that the partner preference of lesbian and bisexual women mirrors that of heterosexual men.

I think this does actually track for me lmao:



Can just take a guy and feminise his face and it's like finding a new attractive person. Hair length helps too though. This doesn't always work either. Probably have to be attracted to them somewhat-moderately before hand or was at some point.

Sometimes the original is more attractive and sometimes the modified version. But I think it's mostly appealing because it's new and the way the filter works. No one really likes the masculine filter even trans guys using faceapp didn't like it.

[Nyctophilia]

True story - my gf saw me watching your videos and immediately assumed the worst so I had her watch with me (Are Women ok), figured she'd find you humorous too. Nope she hated it, in fact, she said she didn't want me to watch your videos anymore.

Broke up with her last week.

This is a rookie mistake btw. If he wanted to get his girlfriend to like Shoe he should have shown her:

"Egirl" Vs "Alpha Male"

I linked that in my previous post. This still won't work 90% of the time.

Are women OK is a video for men though:



With minimal exceptions from what I remember she is not identifying with women in the video so it won't appeal to them.

Actually the woman at 1:12 in that video actually looks great. Like great dress, great hair, great earrings. Their life may be [BEEP] but they're pulling off that look.

Also on that video for some reason there's a YouTube message thing:

Context: conversion therapy

Conversion therapy refers to a range of dangerous and discredited practices aimed at changing one's sexual orientation or gender identity or expression.

Did that come up in the video lol? I can't remember now.

She says 7.3% of her audience is female which is an insane ratio for a channel:



This video also will only appeal to a minority of women. Mostly conservative women, who aren't online.

I mean really the issue there is that shoe is from a liberal cultural background who has over time adopted conservative cultural traits but all the liberal parts are still kind of there which will put off the conservative women but at the same time her politics don't really align with the liberal female bubble who react like this:



So essentially she can't really attract a female audience. I also imagine women are put off by the male audience.

This comment lol:

The fact that showing the slightest bit of empathy is met with overwhelming hate is so depressing.
Edit: This comment has started a gender war. ️🤦

It's hard to get data on what percentage of people are non-binary but approximately 0.6% of the UK is (based on census data.) So it's more weird that her audience is 1.2% 'user specified.'

What men want:

When we guys are looking to get married, we want someone who understands the concepts of family, be less self centred. That's where girls from Latin & Asian countries shine. Not only girls there are extremely adorable but they are so humble and caring too. They match all the criteria for a perfect wife and mother to future children. Also, they have great amount of respect for their partner, they basically worship their husband.

Also the growing divorce rate is making life miserable for guys that's they reason most guys avoid getting married or go for prenup. Latina and Asian women are good here too, because of their family values they try to fight and work on relationship rather than just giving up like others.

What women want:





Oh wait no that's what men want again I got distracted.

You know what men want? Marissa Tomei. I have yet to meet a guy that didn't think she was undeniably attractive.

I would have chosen Marisa Tomei over Helen Hunt every single time

She's so my type.... She's singularly beautiful and I absolutely love her hair as well

When I was watching this as a kid, I'm like this chick is batshit crazy. Now as an adult, I'm literally her.

Honestly can't remember what I thought now the actress is hot though. I think she should have hooked up with Judy Greer's character

Lol there's 9 fanfics for What Women Want on AO3 (and that's it lol,) 2 are mostly unrelated crossover fics, 7 are femslash, mostly with Erin and none of them are with MARISA'S CHARACTER. Mostly Helen Hunt's character and original female characters (created by the fanfic author in other words.)

I was so close.

Calm down.

Non-binary people want Lola/Erin fanfiction. Also Isha/Slaanesh fanfiction.

After watching that fujoshi video yesterday I also realised that Wednesday Addams and Enid are one of the most popular ships on AO3 because the list of most popular ships came up in the video, but I can't be the person that reads fanfiction about teen girls lol. Can't do it. I know the actors are older but still. I wanted something with a similar dynamic with older characters though while watching the show.

I don't find Mel Gibson attractive and he kind of creeps me out rewatching now.

She was hot in Spiderman too.



"The world's wide open Kelly what do you want to do?"

"Do what?"



Also coincidentally Heather looks a bit like Marisa Tomei lol.

These videos are so 2000s lol. Also I feel like Kelly's friend Heather is a reference to the film Heathers.

"Fuck you with something hard and sandpapery." Sounds like a famous line from the film.

[Nyctophilia]

I've seen some of your content through Nux and just wanted to say I really appreciate a lot of your takes. Idk how serious you are about the pedos running the gov't take, but you?re spot on regarding the hypocrisy and brain rot of these hyper-woke political takes. I think you and Destiny address this [BEEP] really well and both of you genuinely perform a civil service through your interaction in the contemporary political/social discourse.

I've reached a point of relative ambivalence (about the chaos that is,) because very little of these discussions feel like they apply to me and I don't feel like anyone really addresses the issues I personally have due to the binary way everyone views gender and sexuality.

And yet I'm probably not that rare to the extent that this video is accurate:



The closest anyone's come to doing anything useful is Aella asking people about their political opinions during a sexual survey a couple of years ago, jreg making a video about it a couple of years ago.

That one brief moment Jordan Peterson suggested that maybe women's preference for feminine men is fuelling the political crisis somewhat.



But it's not the pill.

Other useful stuff abortion views seem to be influenced by how masculine or feminine people report being with very masculine men and very feminine women being significantly more likely to be anti-abortion:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/20...-about-gender/

The problem with an analysis of abortion views based on sex is that it's conflating two concepts: sex and gender. There aren't many social scientists who are going to argue that someone's reproductive organs make them hold certain social or political views; rather, it?s the way that those organs shape the way that they're raised, the roles they adopt in society, and the corresponding differences in the way that they?re treated and how they view their own role in society. Put another way, social and political views aren't driven by sex so much as gender: a distinction that often gets overlooked because social scientists and pollsters generally don't ask about gender (and are often squeamish about asking questions about sex, relying instead on telephone interviewers' judgment about a respondent's voice).

When we break down abortion views by the gender identities that people express, we get a very different story. While there are several ways to measure gender identity, a simple question asking people to place themselves on a scale running between "completely masculine" and "completely feminine" works well for most populations (more complex scales can be used when dealing with populations who are expected to have more diversity in their gender identities). When asked this question, about half of Americans express a gender identity that's "completely" corresponds to societal expectations about their sex: "completely feminine" women and "completely masculine" men. Most of the remainder express a gender identity that's mostly in line with it, and less than 10 percent express a gender identity that's seen as corresponding to the opposite sex (with women being more likely to say that they?re masculine than men saying that they're feminine).

Forty-five percent of "completely feminine" women say that abortion should be illegal in most or all cases, compared with just 26 percent of other women. Similarly, 49 percent of "completely masculine" men say that abortion should be mostly or always illegal, compared with 31 percent of other men. Put another way, "completely feminine" women have much more in common with "completely masculine" than they do with other women. Just so, men who don't assert a "completely masculine" gender identity have abortion attitudes much closer to women who don't say that they're "completely feminine" than they do with other men.

Feminist activists (not all feminist women,) are more likely to be masculinised according to this study:

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals...014.01011/full

The feminist movement purports to improve conditions for women, and yet only a minority of women in modern societies self-identify as feminists. This is known as the feminist paradox. It has been suggested that feminists exhibit both physiological and psychological characteristics associated with heightened masculinization, which may predispose women for heightened competitiveness, sex-atypical behaviors, and belief in the interchangeability of sex roles. If feminist activists, i.e., those that manufacture the public image of feminism, are indeed masculinized relative to women in general, this might explain why the views and preferences of these two groups are at variance with each other.

In conclusion, the feminists-as-masculinized-females theory and these supportive results yield insight into the potential biological origins of feminist beliefs and value systems. These empirical data indicate that Wilson (2010) may have been right to ascribe feministic characteristics to his sample of less feminine females, if the present results generalize to some extent from feminists activists to self-identified feminists and maybe also to women?s support for feminist views. These are important issues for future research based on this theoretical perspective. In any case, our findings shed new light on the feminist paradox and on studies such as that of Scharff (2012) exploring the reasons why women by-and-large eschew feminist ideology.

The present study tested whether feminist activists are more physiologically and psychologically masculinized than are women in general. Feminist activists were operationally defined as attendees at a feminist conference, and indices of sex-dimorphism were 2D:4D ratio and Directiveness. Consistent with our specific hypotheses, feminist activists exhibited a significantly more masculinized 2D:4D ratio relative to both Swedish and aggregate comparison groups, a substantially higher level of Directiveness than both the male and female Australian samples, and within-sample correlations between these variables.

This examines the link between masculinity sexism and support for populist right wing movements. I'd have to read through this properly but seems useful:

Masculinity, sexism and populist radical right support

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...3.1038659/full

Furthermore, while masculinity matters when explaining support for PRR parties--at least among men--femininity does not have an impact (see also Coffe, 2019 on the Dutch Party for Freedom). This could be due to the fact that PRR parties demonstrate masculine traits, and thus, men voters who possess those masculine traits are more likely to vote for them. PRR parties' relationship to femininity is less clear (Mayer, 2013; Meret, 2015; Spierings and Zaslove, 2015), meaning that feminine traits do not factor into voters' decisions as to whether or not to support PRR parties. It is possible, then, that more left leaning parties will have stronger feminine traits (or be perceived as such by voters; Winter, 2010) and will therefore be more likely to attract voters--possibly women voters--who themselves possess feminine traits (McDermott, 2016). This opens an interesting avenue for further research, examining the effect of masculinity and femininity--in interaction with gender--on support for parties of different ideological orientations.

It's not clear to me if they examined if populist right wing groups appeal to masculine women. I would doubt so, because of the sexism. They don't appeal to feminine women either. The study authors theorise that left leaning parties have stronger feminine traits but that's clearly complicated by the association with women with some masculine traits. I think it would probably be more accurate to describe 'the left' as androgynous.

While both women and men can score high on masculinity, biological sex and masculinity characteristics are intrinsically related. As a result of gender socialization forces, men generally score higher on masculinity than women (Coff?, 2019; Alexander et al., 2021b). Some literature has suggested that it is particularly masculine men who support the PRR, assuming a reinforcing effect between masculinity and being a man. The concept of "hypermasculine men" refers to men who are not just masculine and not just male (Mosher and Tomkins, 1988, p. 64). Hypermasculine men exhibit an exaggerated form of masculinity, engage in stereotypical masculine behavior, and see themselves as possessing a high level of stereotypical masculine characteristics (Gidengil and Stolle, 2021, p. 1819). They also typically fear the feminization of society and are most likely to be susceptible to masculine threats. Studying the Dutch Freedom Party, Coffe (2019) did not find a stronger effect of masculinity among men compared with women. By contrast, Gidengil and Stolle (2021) confirmed a tendency of hypermasculine men to be especially attracted to Trump.

While femininity has been found to have little effect on the likelihood to support PRR parties, masculinity is associated with higher support for these parties (e.g., Coff?, 2019; Gidengil and Stolle, 2021). Those scoring high on masculinity tend to be more likely to support PRR parties compared with those scoring low on masculinity. Smirnova (2018, p. 11) even conjectured that "associating with and voting for Trump thus becomes coded as an act of masculinity?not voting for him reflects one's lack of masculinity or brotherhood". The link between masculinity and PRR voting has been attributed to the masculine character and discourse of PRR parties and their leaders. Carian and Sobotka (2018), highlight how Trump embodied an exaggerated form of masculinity that appeals to hypermasculine white men. Similarly, Daddow and Hertner's (2021) framework of toxic masculinity in political parties reveals that the policy positions, discourses and practices of UKIP and the AfD are toxically masculine, perhaps even specifically geared to be attractive to masculine voters. Furthermore, and particularly relevant for our study, Cabezas (2022) has shown VOX's use of masculinist frames, frames based on masculine threat and frames that construct feminism as the nation's enemy and harmful to men through a comprehensive analysis of VOX's communication strategies in electoral campaigns in Spain.

It's kind of funny because in a literal sense Trump isn't really hypermasculine imo. Tbh neither are any of his followers. According to my own definitions at least lol. You can also see these people:



You have to transcend this debate entirely to be hypermasculine like some kind of stoic that lives in the woods alone, entirely self sufficient. But this is the labelling we're going with now lol and I understand what they mean.

Furthermore, and particularly relevant for our study, Cabezas (2022) has shown VOX's use of masculinist frames, frames based on masculine threat and frames that construct feminism as the nation's enemy and harmful to men through a comprehensive analysis of VOX's communication strategies in electoral campaigns in Spain.

I think any masculine outgroups are seen as threatning to the populist right so that would include feminism, islam - mostly those atm. Technically black guys are treated as a threat too and maybe the group BLM is considered the group that represents that in America. But they're getting less attention atm. Perhaps less organisation I dunno - I mean I wouldn't consider BLM to represent black men specifically either. I'm not sure they're leading it where as Islam is very much being led by Islamic men.

All black people are considered a threat to some extent though by this group of men. Sexually, nationally within the US. In the UK they're a very small group that is broken up more by nationality and while we've adopted some US politics the focus here is still mostly again on Muslim men and LGBT+ people and to a lesser extent feminism. LGBT+ is another group that overlaps with feminism (well there's strong overlap but I would consider myself LGBT+ technically but not a feminist despite an overlap in viewpoints.) Again though core feminist and LGBT+ groups are technically androgynous and the masculine groups are mostly working class men who are low status and territorial. Sensitive to threats.

You see this in a very literal sense btw:



Not every masculine guy is part of the populist right either though.

And this is vaguely useful. Maybe:



But 'lesbian' isn't useful. Gender non-conforming is.

And everything moves at such a glacial pace. We're going to be stuck here for a long time. Mostly because everyone insists on yelling about women and men like those are two useful categories in this debate. Not really honestly.

Some of the people responding angrily have trans flags in their bios, some of them look androgynous, some of them seem feminine and have probably just had bad experiences with men and been exposed to all the bs men are posting online. I would be interested in knowing what percentage of people who are pissed off cannot be helped with:

"Just go back to the 1950s man. Live a traditional life."

If it sounded appealing do you not think everyone would be a conservative? It's not appealing. To a lot of people.

Under no circumstances are either Destiny or Shoe really addressing 'woke' people. They aren't watching her videos, women aren't watching her videos, when they are watching they're hate watching. But they don't have to watch to do that they can look at thumbnails, get mad and post on twitter like in that video of people on tiktok and twitter reacting to her. Half of them were mad purely on seeing her style of makeup. Which tbh is pretty funny.

Really in terms of new viewers she's just reaching some conservative and right wing men who post things like 'Even though you're a liberal, I don't mind your content.'

Unfortunately this is no enligtened act in my opinion. She's not actually your outgroup. This is now outdated - among other things the gendered political divide has taken over a lot more and 'grey tribe' are all over the place politically mostly depending on gender and if they're LGBT+ or not. But still somewhat useful:

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/3...-the-outgroup/

Let's start by asking what exactly an outgroup is.

There?s a very boring sense in which, assuming the Emperor?s straight, gays are part of his "outgroup" ie a group that he is not a member of. But if the Emperor has curly hair, are straight-haired people part of his outgroup? If the Emperor?s name starts with the letter "A", are people whose names start with the letter "B" part of his outgroup?

Nah. I would differentiate between multiple different meanings of outgroup, where one is "a group you are not a part of" and the other is - something stronger.

I want to avoid a very easy trap, which is saying that outgroups are about how different you are, or how hostile you are. I don?t think that's quite right.

Compare the Nazis to the German Jews and to the Japanese. The Nazis were very similar to the German Jews: they looked the same, spoke the same language, came from a similar culture. The Nazis were totally different from the Japanese: different race, different language, vast cultural gap. But the Nazis and Japanese mostly got along pretty well. Heck, the Nazis were actually moderately positively disposed to the Chinese, even when they were technically at war. Meanwhile, the conflict between the Nazis and the German Jews - some of whom didn't even realize they were anything other than German until they checked their grandparents' birth certificate - is the stuff of history and nightmares. Any theory of outgroupishness that naively assumes the Nazis? natural outgroup is Japanese or Chinese people will be totally inadequate.

And this isn't a weird exception. Freud spoke of the narcissism of small differences, saying that "it is precisely communities with adjoining territories, and related to each other in other ways as well, who are engaged in constant feuds and ridiculing each other". Nazis and German Jews. Northern Irish Protestants and Northern Irish Catholics. Hutus and Tutsis. South African whites and South African blacks. Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs. Anyone in the former Yugoslavia and anyone else in the former Yugoslavia.

So what makes an outgroup? Proximity plus small differences. If you want to know who someone in former Yugoslavia hates, don?t look at the Indonesians or the Zulus or the Tibetans or anyone else distant and exotic. Find the Yugoslavian ethnicity that lives closely intermingled with them and is most conspicuously similar to them, and chances are you?ll find the one who they have eight hundred years of seething hatred toward.

There are certain theories of dark matter where it barely interacts with the regular world at all, such that we could have a dark matter planet exactly co-incident with Earth and never know. Maybe dark matter people are walking all around us and through us, maybe my house is in the Times Square of a great dark matter city, maybe a few meters away from me a dark matter blogger is writing on his dark matter computer about how weird it would be if there was a light matter person he couldn?t see right next to him.

This is sort of how I feel about conservatives.

I don?t mean the sort of light-matter conservatives who go around complaining about Big Government and occasionally voting for Romney. I see those guys all the time. What I mean is - well, take creationists. According to Gallup polls, about 46% of Americans are creationists. Not just in the sense of believing God helped guide evolution. I mean they think evolution is a vile atheist lie and God created humans exactly as they exist right now. That's half the country.

And I don?t have a single one of those people in my social circle. It's not because I?m deliberately avoiding them; I?m pretty live-and-let-live politically, I wouldn?t ostracize someone just for some weird beliefs. And yet, even though I probably know about a hundred fifty people, I am pretty confident that not one of them is creationist. Odds of this happening by chance? 1/2^150 = 1/10^45 = approximately the chance of picking a particular atom if you are randomly selecting among all the atoms on Earth.

About forty percent of Americans want to ban gay marriage. I think if I really stretch it, maybe ten of my top hundred fifty friends might fall into this group. This is less astronomically unlikely; the odds are a mere one to one hundred quintillion against.

People like to talk about social bubbles, but that doesn?t even begin to cover one hundred quintillion. The only metaphor that seems really appropriate is the bizarre dark matter world.

I live in a Republican congressional district in a state with a Republican governor. The conservatives are definitely out there. They drive on the same roads as I do, live in the same neighborhoods. But they might as well be made of dark matter. I never meet them.

To be fair, I spend a lot of my time inside on my computer. I?m browsing sites like Reddit.

Recently, there was a thread on Reddit asking - Redditors Against Gay Marriage, What Is Your Best Supporting Argument? A Reddit user who didn?t understand how anybody could be against gay marriage honestly wanted to know how other people who were against it justified their position. He figured he might as well ask one of the largest sites on the Internet, with an estimated user base in the tens of millions.

It soon became clear that nobody there was actually against gay marriage.

There were a bunch of posts saying "I of course support gay marriage but here are some reasons some other people might be against it," a bunch of others saying "my argument against gay marriage is the government shouldn?t be involved in the marriage business at all", and several more saying ?why would you even ask this question, there?s no possible good argument and you?re wasting your time". About halfway through the thread someone started saying homosexuality was unnatural and I thought they were going to be the first one to actually answer the question, but at the end they added ?But it?s not my place to decide what is or isn?t natural, I'm still pro-gay marriage."

In a thread with 10,401 comments, a thread specifically asking for people against gay marriage, I was eventually able to find two people who came out and opposed it, way near the bottom. Their posts started with "I know I?m going to be downvoted to hell for this?"

But I?m not only on Reddit. I also hang out on LW.

On last year?s survey, I found that of American LWers who identify with one of the two major political parties, 80% are Democrat and 20% Republican, which actually sounds pretty balanced compared to some of these other examples.

But it doesn?t last. Pretty much all of those "Republicans" are libertarians who consider the GOP the lesser of two evils. When allowed to choose "libertarian" as an alternative, only 4% of visitors continued to identify as conservative. But that?s still?some. Right?

When I broke the numbers down further, 3 percentage points of those are neoreactionaries, a bizarre sect that wants to be ruled by a king. Only one percent of LWers were normal everyday God-'n-guns-but-not-George-III conservatives of the type that seem to make up about half of the United States.

It gets worse. My formative years were spent at a university which, if it was similar to other elite universities, had a faculty and a student body that skewed about 90-10 liberal to conservative ? and we can bet that, like LW, even those few token conservatives are Mitt Romney types rather than God-n?-guns types. I get my news from vox.com, an Official Liberal Approved Site. Even when I go out to eat, it turns out my favorite restaurant, California Pizza Kitchen, is the most liberal restaurant in the United States.

I inhabit the same geographical area as scores and scores of conservatives. But without meaning to, I have created an outrageously strong bubble, a 10^45 bubble. Conservatives are all around me, yet I am about as likely to have a serious encounter with one as I am a Tibetan lama.

(Less likely, actually. One time a Tibetan lama came to my college and gave a really nice presentation, but if a conservative tried that, people would protest and it would be canceled.)

IV.

One day I realized that entirely by accident I was fulfilling all the Jewish stereotypes.

I'm nerdy, over-educated, good with words, good with money, weird sense of humor, don?t get outside much, I like deli sandwiches. And I'm a psychiatrist, which is about the most stereotypically Jewish profession short of maybe stand-up comedian or rabbi.

I'm not very religious. And I don?t go to synagogue. But that's stereotypically Jewish too!

I bring this up because it would be a mistake to think "Well, a Jewish person is by definition someone who is born of a Jewish mother. Or I guess it sort of also means someone who follows the Mosaic Law and goes to synagogue. But I don?t care about Scott?s mother, and I know he doesn?t go to synagogue, so I can?t gain any useful information from knowing Scott is Jewish."

The defining factors of Judaism ? Torah-reading, synagogue-following, mother-having - are the tip of a giant iceberg. Jews sometimes identify as a "tribe", and even if you don?t attend synagogue, you're still a member of that tribe and people can still (in a statistical way) infer things about you by knowing your Jewish identity - like how likely they are to be psychiatrists.

The last section raised a question - if people rarely select their friends and associates and customers explicitly for politics, how do we end up with such intense political segregation?

Well, in the same way "going to synagogue" is merely the iceberg-tip of a Jewish tribe with many distinguishing characteristics, so "voting Republican" or "identifying as conservative" or "believing in creationism" is the iceberg-tip of a conservative tribe with many distinguishing characteristics.

A disproportionate number of my friends are Jewish, because I meet them at psychiatry conferences or something ? we self-segregate not based on explicit religion but on implicit tribal characteristics. So in the same way, political tribes self-segregate to an impressive extent ? a 1/10^45 extent, I will never tire of hammering in - based on their implicit tribal characteristics.

The people who are actually into this sort of thing sketch out a bunch of speculative tribes and subtribes, but to make it easier, let me stick with two and a half.

The Red Tribe is most classically typified by conservative political beliefs, strong evangelical religious beliefs, creationism, opposing gay marriage, owning guns, eating steak, drinking Coca-Cola, driving SUVs, watching lots of TV, enjoying American football, getting conspicuously upset about terrorists and commies, marrying early, divorcing early, shouting ?USA IS NUMBER ONE!!!?, and listening to country music.

The Blue Tribe is most classically typified by liberal political beliefs, vague agnosticism, supporting gay rights, thinking guns are barbaric, eating arugula, drinking fancy bottled water, driving Priuses, reading lots of books, being highly educated, mocking American football, feeling vaguely like they should like soccer but never really being able to get into it, getting conspicuously upset about sexists and bigots, marrying later, constantly pointing out how much more civilized European countries are than America, and listening to ?everything except country".

(There is a partly-formed attempt to spin off a Grey Tribe typified by libertarian political beliefs, Dawkins-style atheism, vague annoyance that the question of gay rights even comes up, eating paleo, drinking Soylent, calling in rides on Uber, reading lots of blogs, calling American football ?sportsball?, getting conspicuously upset about the War on Drugs and the NSA, and listening to filk ? but for our current purposes this is a distraction and they can safely be considered part of the Blue Tribe most of the time)

I think these ?tribes? will turn out to be even stronger categories than politics. Harvard might skew 80-20 in terms of Democrats vs. Republicans, 90-10 in terms of liberals vs. conservatives, but maybe 99-1 in terms of Blues vs. Reds.

It?s the many, many differences between these tribes that explain the strength of the filter bubble ? which have I mentioned segregates people at a strength of 1/10^45? Even in something as seemingly politically uncharged as going to California Pizza Kitchen or Sushi House for dinner, I?m restricting myself to the set of people who like cute artisanal pizzas or sophsticated foreign foods, which are classically Blue Tribe characteristics.

Are these tribes based on geography? Are they based on race, ethnic origin, religion, IQ, what TV channels you watched as a kid? I don?t know.

Some of it is certainly genetic - estimates of the genetic contribution to political association range from 0.4 to 0.6. Heritability of one?s attitudes toward gay rights range from 0.3 to 0.5, which hilariously is a little more heritable than homosexuality itself.

(for an interesting attempt to break these down into more rigorous concepts like "traditionalism", "authoritarianism", and "in-group favoritism" and find the genetic loading for each see here. For an attempt to trace the specific genes involved, which mostly turn out to be NMDA receptors, see here)

But I don?t think it?s just genetics. There?s something else going on too. The word "class" seems like the closest analogue, but only if you use it in the sophisticated Paul Fussell Guide Through the American Status System way instead of the boring "another word for how much money you make" way.

For now we can just accept them as a brute fact - as multiple coexisting societies that might as well be made of dark matter for all of the interaction they have with one another - and move on.

Also realistically the idea that the world is being run by Satanic and coordinated pedophiles is really just a huge cope for the chaos of existence.

The criticism shoe was getting on her video from men was like:

this girl is a fake who wants every man to be a castrated beta male feminist commie like her bf probably is. She takes advantage of men like this. Do not listen to her.

Lefty women wnat to help men! Help men become good feminsits who devote their lives to helping women have all the power so they can make men their servants! Basically, we need to help men destroy men! That's the only way men should be helped. We women said so! - Shoeonhead

Actually shoe's boyfriend is a right winger and seems reasonably masculine from what I remember and a bit of an asshole. Which we've decided collectively means masculine.

But they sound exactly like feminists and the things they say about men. Probably because again feminists are on average quite masculine. So the idea of being feminine is threatning. These comments she got from guys aren't unique either this is frequent in online discourse.

Instead of accepting this right wing men continuously insist that all women - and afab people in general - should be feminine, have kids, and so on. Creating no space for masculine afab people in the culture.

According to the political compass fetish video the liberal left are into pegging, femdom stuff, male submission and also futa (Unrealistic trans-adj sexual interest essentially mostly hentai stuff.) Doesn't seem like that survey included feminisation as a kink option which is unfortunate because it would be good to get more info on that specifically. Regardless it still clearly trends in that direction.

And the authoritarian right are into well a lot of stuff honestly. They seem to have a lot of disgust oriented fetishes but aside from that specifically male domination and 24/7 power dynamics.

So I think right wing people are trying to feminise and control women and left wing people are trying to feminise men. Probably because their sexuality kind of demands that.

Not all women and men specifically men and women from these subgroups but also I think people push these preferences to varying degrees. I guess anything can feel like pressure potentially. Like just someone talking about it.

There was some tweet by of a tiktok by a woman who didn't want to leave Florida and was liberal and had decided there were two types of men. 'confident, attractive, assertive, direct, misogynistic douchebags' and 'kind, sweet, thoughtful, feminist, caring, and have the sexual prowess of a teddy bear.' so she wanted a direct, assertive, confident feminist man who can pick her up and throw her around [in the bedroom]' and when asking for that the responses from right wing men were all like 'that's impossible' and 'she wants a tall midget' I think that seems a bit limited. 'There are only two types of men' lol. But that's where we're at in general.

They're going to freak out when they realise there are femboys who are far right politically.

At least shes being honest. Many women have no idea this is what they've been programmed to want.

These liberal women sound like they're concocting some hellish chimeric hybrid like something out of Greek mythology.

Part macho, part feminist, part pornstar.

Well I know I am, but I think it's more Babylonian perhaps. Not the one she's trying to create but my own chimera.

You can either have the direct, assertive and confident part removed and have a [BEEP] feminist boyfriend, or you can remove the feminist part and accept MEN ARE MEANT TO BE MASCULINE, not little bitches who have man buns and preach about equality

Again this is very limited I want them to have long hair without the bun part.

She wants a man to peg

Tbh that sounds like the opposite of what she wants sexually.

And I don't know what the solution to this issue is. There's more segregation irl. Like the ingroup/outgroup bubbles that happen irl. But that seems impossible now because of how social media works. Not that entertainment was ever really segregated like that and it's always been liberal leaning as with all creative fields so that always triggered the conservative people anyway.

[Nyctophilia]

There are actually three kinds of men in the world:

Men who understand why women said bear

Men who are the reason why women said bear

AND

Men who couldn't care less about irrational and illogical things women say based on their emotions because they understand female nature

and 4: Men who are scrolling through twitter and keep seeing men bring up bears in tweets and responses to other tweets with no context whatsoever. Assumed some kind of weird gay joke.

Oh OK I see. Well Louis CK said this years ago:



I went through a phase of watching bear videos on YouTube a few years ago:







It's often bear families going in pools.

The view here is really great:



Some bears went into a chocolate shop to steal some chocolate on a show I watched once too. I think there are lots of videos of them showing up to shops to steal chocolate and such.

Cat chases off bear lol:



I like this goose vs cow video too:



Geese are kind of insane though.

I think feminists should watch these videos though it wasn't the point of the poll? Whatever it was of course.

The responses to the bear thing from men are not helping at all obviously.

Correct, but the people pointing that out, particularly the men trying to use this to argue that women are less intelligent, are failing the nail test. The women choosing the bear seem to be trying to make a social statement rather than seriously saying it's statistically safer.

Bingo.

I'm a feminist because when the bear discourse started men did not act dismayed about the lack of social cohesion in our society, they immediately jumped on creating very long threads about how women are silly stupid whores. This is why the birth rate is falling.

The female bears would probably prefer Human males I think. Male bears don't provide any support in raising cubs where as with Human males it varies and since most Humans are very social and caring compared to other mammals even male Humans often adopt cats and dogs etc and my male Human friend (yes I'm going to continue writing like this it entertains me,) who likes cats recently sent me a video of like a young girl teaching her two cats while they were sat in a chair:



Sometimes he sends me videos of toddlers etc.

Also male bears often kill cubs including their own I don't think they can recognise their offspring. Humans engage in infanticide too though but probably not as often. I think it's a big part of male bears reproductive strategy.

Can use Humans as a shield too:

For a mother brown bear in Scandinavia, few sights are as terrifying as a strange male. Adult male bears are known to kill cubs that are not theirs--and sometimes the mother that defends them. A new study suggests that smart mama bears have found a surprising way to protect their young. To shield her cubs from male attacks, mom just has to raise them near an adult bear's No. 1 enemy: humans.

"People fear bears," says Marcus Elfstr?m, a wildlife ecologist at the Norwegian University of Life Sciences (NMBU) in ?s, Norway, who was not involved in the research. But the new study shows that "vulnerable bears fear dominant [fellow bears] more than they fear people."

Female grizzly bears and Scandinavian brown bears move away from male territory after giving birth, often choosing areas far from the best bear habitats. If a mother loses her cub, she soon goes into heat, so an infanticidal male has a good chance of impregnating her. When researchers in Sweden found some mother bears and their cubs living near human settlements, they wondered whether it might be a reproductive strategy--a way of protecting their young from killer males. After all, adult male bears don't often venture near towns because humans are likely to kill them. If it was for safety, did the mothers' strategy work?

To find out, researchers from NMBU tracked 30 GPS-collared mother brown bears in south-central Sweden from 2005 to 2012. Nineteen of the mothers successfully raised their cubs, but 11 lost their litters to infanticidal males. That's in line with previous studies showing that some 35% of brown bear cubs in this region die every year, most of them from male attacks.

When the researchers examined where the successful mothers lived during the mating season, they found that they stayed close to human settlements, at a median distance of 783 meters, they report today in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B. Some bears stayed even closer. "They were clearly using the humans as a shield," says Sam Steyaert, a wildlife biologist at NMBU and the study's lead author.

The successful bear families also use clear-cut areas, where young trees and shrubs are thick. "These mothers select the densest vegetation, especially when they're close to humans," Steyaert says. "That way they can be very close to people, but the people don't know they're there," potentially minimizing conflicts. Every year between August and October, people in the region hunt and kill bears, often close to homes and villages. But bear families?the mothers and the cubs--are not targeted.

The smart mother bears seem to have figured this out. They stay closer to human settlements during the most likely time of male infanticide, the mating season. "It's surprising because it shows that female bears are smart enough to think way ahead," says William Ripple, an ecologist at Oregon State University, Corvallis, who was not involved in the study.

In contrast, the mothers who lost their cubs avoided areas with human settlements, roads, and clear-cuts, and instead stayed in areas with tree-rich bogs and forest. They kept a median distance of 1213 meters from any human habitation--exposing their offspring to despotic males in the process.

I'd guess after enough time this will start to domesticate the bears too.

This is a pov I haven't seen in the tweets interestingly.

Testosterone is linked to mating and competitive behaviour in male animals. Suppressing it might be nature's way of preparing fathers to cooperate with their partners and care for children, the researchers say. Although caring fathers are rare among mammals and most other animals, many can be found among birds -- and those bird fathers also experience testosterone dips.

Prolactin is another hormone linked to paternal behaviour in birds -- this time, doting bird dads have more of it -- and some studies have hinted at a similar effect in humans. Although we're only distantly related to birds, evolution may have used the same mechanisms to encourage fatherly behaviour in both animals. Understanding those mechanisms better might help us learn how fatherhood evolved.

There's a lot of weird Human behaviour that's more like birds. Male penguins for example are more involved with raising young. There's also a species of bird that have behaviour that's similar to 'fujoshi' in Humans where they're attracted by male birds having sex with feminine male birds. I always think about that because it's so idiosyncratic and yet it's something another species does and they're birds lol. I think there are other species with female mimics too though. But the suggestion that female birds were drawn in by homosexual mating was particuarly interesting. And there are multiple male morphs:

Territorial males are very site-faithful; 90% return to the same lekking sites in subsequent seasons, the most dominant males being the most likely to reappear. Site-faithful males can acquire accurate information about the competitive abilities of other males, leading to well-developed dominance relationships. Such stable relationships reduce conflict and the risk of injury, and the consequent lower levels of male aggression are less likely to scare off females. Lower-ranked territorial males also benefit from site fidelity since they can remain on the leks while waiting for the top males eventually to drop out.[32]

Satellite males, about 16% of the total number, have white or mottled ruffs and do not occupy territories; they enter leks and attempt to mate with the females visiting the territories occupied by the resident males.[33] Resident males tolerate the satellite birds because, although they are competitors for mating with the females, the presence of both types of male on a territory attracts additional females.[34][35] Females also prefer larger leks,[36] and leks surrounded by taller plants, which give better nesting habitat.[37]

This cryptic male, or "faeder" (Old English "father") obtains access to mating territories together with the females, and "steals" matings when the females crouch to solicit copulation.[11] The faeder moults into the prenuptial male plumage with striped feathers, but does not go on to develop the ornamental feathers of the more common males. As described above, this stage is thought to show the original male breeding plumage, before other male types evolved. A faeder can be distinguished in the hand by its wing length, which is intermediate between those of displaying males and females.[39] Despite their feminine appearance, the faeders migrate with the larger lekking males and spend the winter with them.[40] The faeders are sometimes mounted by independent or satellite males, but are as often "on top" in homosexual mountings as the ruffed males, suggesting that their true identity is known by the other males. Females never mount males.[11] Females often seem to prefer mating with faeders to copulation with the more common males, and those males also copulate with faeders (and vice versa) relatively more often than with females. The homosexual copulations may attract females to the lek, like the presence of satellite males.[41]

Also the singing is kind of like birds. And collection of shiny things maybe.

Very weird species. But not as weird as platypus.

Crows are actually very intelligent probably about as intelligent as gorillas and chimpanzees guess that explains the poems and mythology etc:

Dahlquist, a musician and handyman who runs a pet door installation business, shared a picture of the twigs on Twitter. "This isn't only generous, it?s creative, it's art," he wrote. It went viral, with more than 9,000 retweets and 33,000 likes.

But is it truly possible that crows crafted these objects and purposefully left them for Dahlquist to find?

"It's definitely not a behavior that I've ever seen before," says Kaeli Swift, an animal behaviorist who studies corvids at the University of Washington. "But it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if a crow did it."

Crows, as members of the corvid family, are highly intelligent creatures that make tools, recognize individual humans, and learn from one another. Wild crows are not known to create or display art. But they do occasionally leave behind objects like keys, lost earrings, bones, or rocks, for the people who feed them, a behavior that John Marzluff, conservation ecologist and Swift's colleague at the University of Washington, calls "gifting."

They use pedestrian crossings which is pretty funny:



They're not so great at keeping track of currency though:



This one goes for walks with this woman lol:



There's a stereotype about magpies stealing stuff:



But I think that's a myth and they're apparently scared of shiny objects lol.

[Nyctophilia]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGrQr3gV3vU

I've said this before but I really don't get why he concedes that there's something that appealing about him sexually. Either of the people in the second video. There's a video where he gets into this more while talking to someone that I can't find now.

They have these conversations without women even in the room. Not just in a literal sense most of the time but in the sense of having someone who understands anything.

I also wouldn't say his fanbase are the 'losers living in their parents basement' it seems to be mostly teenage - or even younger than teenage there are some primary school aged - boys in the UK at least:

One in six 6-15 year old boys (17%) have a positive opinion of Andrew Tate, including 23% of 13-15 year olds.

Not exactly the same but this is Sneako's fanbase irl:





"The other day I was sitting at the pool. And like these 9 year old kids were jumping in the pool and I noticed them whispering pointing at me. You were making fun of the fact that 14 year olds were coming up to me."

There are kids in primary school here that watch Andrew Tate like I say. The parents are entirely absent it seems.

Calling kids losers living in their parents basement seems a bit premature, even for a conservative. This isn't the Victorian era.

I also think there are a lot of adult men from an ethnic minority background here that like him. Probably not the demographic he's thinking of. White people don't tend to like him to be blunt. I've looked through his fans online and people defending him and it is often adult black guys and there's also a bunch of Muslim men from various countries and backgrounds especially after he came out as Muslim. Not the only one to have noticed so it's not just me.

I'm a 'loser' and I strongly dislike him.

Also some psychologist this guy is lol. Imagine having him as a therapist. It's OK though I grew up listening to 90s music.



Also what is appealing masculinity or aesthetically is different between race and ethnic and class background. People even change their appearence when dating people of different races sometimes lol. He talks about that with the guy who is now dating Taylor Swift (no I don't watch US sports, and I don't remember his name off hand,) and how he knew since he'd previously dated a bunch of black women I think it comes up in this video:



This gets very controversial and so most people aren't really willing to have a conversation about this intersection. People will say 'people should just listen to Jordan Peterson instead' Lol this comedy video is funny though:



Personally I don't agree with Jordan either on a lot of topics, but they're not going to see/listen to him for the most part. Because he's outside their cultural bubble. Like the dark matter universes I quoted about in my previous post. They're broken down a lot online and even generationally to some extent. People talk about how if you look at music subcultures for example everything is kind of merged now:





^ I think her more confessional stuff works better and she has better stuff musically too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoUejI6Jnlg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6bcNlp1YHc

This comment actually enchances the video somehow:

this is my crochet song, when i feel like doing some crochet project i play this and i get a rush of energy. currently working on a frog hat.

but that doesn't mean people are going to switch groups entirely. This YouTuber also goes into this he's clearly right wing and an essentialist and I don't agree with all his opinions (I disagree with basically everyone tbh lol,) but yeah:



Technically I get the feeling we're not even supposed to be 'allowed to talk about this' but if these assholes are going to be shoved in my face constantly by social media then I am going to.

I don't even think what they're doing does work sexually speaking for most women regardless:

As sociologists who study sexuality, we've noticed how more and more women are reporting that they're bisexual. But in the most recent survey, one subset stood out: 23% of black women in the 18 to 34 age group identified as bisexual - a proportion that's nearly three times higher than it was a decade ago.

But I thought LGBT+ was just for white liberal women huh. Lol.

Can't be explained by the higher rate of incarceration either:

Another aspect of the hypothesis involves the disproportionately high rates of incarceration of black men in the U.S. It's possible that because black women are, as a group, more likely to live in areas with smaller "pools of marriageable men," they?re more open to bisexuality.

We're less convinced by the shortage of men argument because it ignores the fact that incarceration rates of black men haven't increased over the past decade. Yet over this period of time, the percentages of young black women identifying as bisexual have grown substantially.

The percentage is aproximately equivalent to the number of teenage boys who reportedly like Andrew Tate. This is a slightly older demographic and the US instead of the UK but still interesting.

Reddit posts (note this is from before Elon took over so Andrew Tate has been back on twitter for a while now):

I just heard about Andrew Tate and his Twitter and Instagram getting removed. Everyone in the comments is talking about how great it is(which it is great). But then I noticed it was mostly white people(which again makes sense because Andrew Tate is 75% white). The annoying part is that they were acting like they didn't know where all this rhetoric came from and acting brand new.

Actually I am very white in every sense of the word but a huge reason I noticed him initially was just because I'm also from Luton.


a church supposedly.

As for the town itself, I have a friend who used to live in Milton Keynes, who claims that it looks like it's been bombed. Which it has, but that was 70 years ago.

And so I have a cynical and dark sense of humour have to keep it in check though.

Other than that, the only redeeming feature of the town was an Indian restaurant in Bury Park. I also had a good laugh about the fact that the local UKIP branch was sandwiched between a Polish supermarket and a gay bar, thinking that it couldn't get any more ironic than that. On the whole though, it was a dismal place. Oh, and it's home to the EDL.

God(dess) bless.

I don't think he's 75% white his dad was black and American his mum was white and from the UK. I mean genetically who knows because it doesn't work out in obvious ways but I haven't read about his dad being mixed race and he's famous enough to have his own wikipedia page too. I can think of several mixed race people who are 75% white (like one black grandparent) and a lot of them basically just pass as white. If you think about it you can sort of notice tiny details sometimes but not really. Like if thinking of famous examples IAMX I had no idea until he brought that up in an interview years ago and his natural hair colour is reddish brown he dyes it other colours:



Did I have to link this video? Yes I did. And most are like this anyway.

Sargon of Akkad the YouTuber is a 1/4 black too. Yeah I know. The British right wing nationalist guy lol.

Again I think she's 1/4 black (edit: no her mum is white and her dad is mostly African American with some Irish ancestry so basically African American because a lot of African Americans are mixed race anyway,) and it's not really obvious:



Cherry picking a bit but as a general rule it's less obvious for obvious reasons.

Also I've just realised that in her Graveyard video the woman she's with is Sydney Sweeney lol. I didn't know who she was before.



I did actually watch some of Euphoria years ago at least one episode. I don't know if her character was introduced then or not though. I didn't recognise her in this video regardless lol.

I can't tell you how angry I was when they were acting like that, but they let Kevin Samuels get mainstream recognition along with all these other black manosphere influencers. Black women and girls have been telling everyone this rhetoric was spreading and that we needed to squash it before it became more of a problem. But our advice fell onto the realm of radio silence, and now they're crying because their white sons and daughters are being affected.

I honestly should've known better than to think that non-blacks would actually care. But hey that's what happens when your rhetoric is targeted towards black women and girls.

So she's actually mad that that white people weren't talking about them lol.

1. it's not visible

2. It's considered weird to talk about black guys anyway for power dynamic reasons. And if women aren't dating them as a general rule they won't notice.

Nobody really notices most things unless they personally touch their life in some way.

This tweet still cracks me up:

Andrew Tate has started to scare conservative white moms so it'll be over soon.

I was shocked when someone looked up Samuels analytics and found most of the channel income comes from black women. Some of us are part of the problem. There's a lot we as black women need to unlearn about our images/depiction in everyday life not just social media. We have to make a point to uplift each other and turn around the shame (which to me is one of the most dangerous social weapons ppl use) about our bodies . See beauty and intelligence as cool , our humanity is undermined and darn it we deserve better.

I literally only know this guy existed because of following F.D Signifier lol. Not sure I'd heard anyone talk about him before then. And F.D Signifier obviously appeals to white people more than many social commentary YouTubers.

The sad part is a lot of prominent black men chastised black women for speaking against KS in his death and were radio silent when he was alive. This included church leaders. Black men are some of the worst perpetrators of verbal and emotional violence against black women and are part of the reason black women are the least protected. We black women need to learn to protect ourselves and our sisters. Andrew Tate was saying things that would poorly reflect in the lives of white women as a white man and that would never be allowed too continue. So OOP your point is well made and understood. [...]

But black women followed KS, defended his BS until the end. They did the same with R. Kelly and Chris Brown. Even when they were menaces to the black community or abusers of black women. That's why his visibility was raised. For KS.. They stopped when wiser women called his BS out and his ignoble and pathetic death was broadcast. His spell was broken it happened then and can happen again. That's what we need to collectively do for all these problematic men. That's when we'll be protected. We'll be protected when it's more profitable for them to protect us than to denigrate us. White women raised the alarm on Andrew Tate and community leaders like teachers were like "not on our watch" and made noise. Community leaders praised KS. Preachers mimiced his BS in sermons on why black women were like men. That's the difference. Black men make money exploiting our traumas while other men elevate their women and publicly project respect towards them. This is not to say privately they don't denigrate them but at least publicly they pretend to respect them.

Honestly I feel like a bunch of these guys try to date white women when they get rich and specifically do things like Fresh and Fit where they point out they won't date certain demographics of black women despite being the utmost trash themselves. Andrew Tate is mixed race anyway.

They date white women who are looking for cash, who are kind of dumb and don't know them, or who are otherwise psychologically damaged - mostly younger too obviously so kind of naive potentially. Eastern European and East Asian women too. Part of the reason they recommend dating women in non Western countries is because they get so much [BEEP] from Western women for being assholes. Andrew said he went to Romania so he wouldn't have to get hassled by the legal system in the UK and yet he was still imprisoned in Romania lol.

The world must "remember" misogynistic influencer Andrew Tate is from the UK, a local Romanian politician has said

I feel like he's very much a product of both being from Luton and being American. The American part (influence from his dad + spending some of his early life in Chicago etc,) is why he blew up so much imo. Americans just seem more extroverted on average and also Americans pay more attention to Americans. And the internet is mostly American. The materialism is also most pronounced in America. His dad did have a big impact on him too and was an aggressive narcissist. He was also a famous chess player so there's also that.

So would most white women tolerate their nonsense? No but at the same time a lot of the women they date are white.

White men do have to be a lot sneakier with their bs than these guys are though it's true lol. But white people have their own edgelord thing in alternative subcultures that are mostly filled with white people where because people are being ironic - sometimes - it's kind of like a game of chicken.

I started writing this song as comedomusicological exercise in attacking one specific individual for Your Entertainment. But the more I wrote, the more I started to feel like a voyeur, contorting that stranger into a reductive stereotype of my own creation. This song is about that.

The complete lack of trust is a problem too really.

People like these YouTubers can't appeal to these guys either. Like 'softboy' aesthetics. And most of this guy's audience probably is white and East Asian honestly probably mostly women as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIHHv5eQmwE

You get a guy like this again he gets accusations that his audience is mostly white though he disagrees:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7Tx69tzJ8U

He's married with kids but this doesn't interest the target demographic imo. They're looking for Batman.



I'm looking for male Poison Ivy. Well I was. As a teenager lol.

Now I'm looking for Pamela Isley. Not quite but it's funny.

Batman is gay too though Andrew.

"Some habits die hard. We must defeat Shaytan [Satan]." - Andrew Tate.

What also struck me about the Longhouse discourse is what it brought to mind from my recent interviews with an American academic who was deeply into the occult for some years. One of the things he told me is that there is running through the occult an elevation of the "dark feminine" as a strategy for opposing and overthrowing the masculine. He said it is no coincidence that so much of contemporary occultism is driven by feminists, and that gender-nonconforming people are also drawn to it. He discerned over time that they define themselves broadly against the patriarchal god of Abrahamic religion, and the order it dictates.

Tee hee.

You can be a white woman and get their attention though by just saying everything they want to hear lol:



"There's levels of grifting."

lol yeah Pearl is kind of the queen of that. She has attained max level.

And people are so threatened by the media 'putting black men in dresses' yes like that's unique to black men. I see many tweets complaining about this online like LeBron James in a dress there was some photo I think it might have been AI edited actually not a real photo.

Part of the humiliation ritual - Kanye told ya - Katt Williams told you - they're always getting the black man in a dress .. all part of their satanic ritual ...

Shaq wore a dress? Charles Barkley kissed a man on TV? LeBron wore a dress, too! This video shows it all: the effeminization of Black men? If they're on TV, they do what all of the others do to get there--bend over guys lose all of their dignity and soul.

The less status you have the more stuff like this bothers you I think. Like right wing populist men who I brought up in my other post. Mostly working class.

These were mostly responses to some woman who was expressing her preferences for some kind of feminist guy who was also sexually dominant lol personally that's not my chimera but still to punctuate my villain arc point I find the responses she got entertaining:

These liberal women sound like they're concocting some hellish chimeric hybrid like something out of Greek mythology.

Part macho, part feminist, part pornstar.

This chick is a Lesbian. If she wants a Feminist-man, what she's actually requesting is a woman. Therefore, she's a Lesbian.

If only the male characters written by other women in romance novels existed.

White liberal women are more scary than any alt right winger. When I see women like this, I see the face of evil.

There was some other tweet that I can't find now in response to the other woman talking about how liberal white women were evil lol.

I promptly realised why searching for that on twitter would not bring up that particualr tweet lol:

Liberal white women are the most evil creatures on the planet.

Liberal white women are evil.

Root of evil is white liberal women that are mentally ill.

Well, I think Liberal White Women are really at the root of all evil that we are seeing today!

White liberal women need to be studied. You bitches are the most insane people alive.

Women are pretty great, except liberal white women. They are by far the most evil creatures on the planet.

Liberal white women are the real axis of evil in this country. Idiots

Not that surprising, we all know that single white liberal women are extremely evil.

White liberal women are the most evil human beings on the face of the earth.

Someone needs to study you cunts.

💅

I can use phonk music too:



Music videos for the attention span destroyed generation lol.

This is a good track but doesn't have a music video:



I'm non-binary but most people would consider me a woman and liberal white woman is my drag persona regardless:



Lol. I almost forgot Dorian literally did that:



That's not the 'liberal' most of them are talking about though well it's mixed. There are two main types they complain about the dyed hair/piercing/tattoo aesthetic that's generally further left, and the pumpkin space latte liberal type + older variants of these.

And yes it is insane that that's how everyone views the world now because of social media brain. I mean this was always a thing but I think it's more pronounced now.

Liberal white women are certainly the most straight-up evil. They're arguably the single most evil group of people on the planet including terrorists.

I do have to stop edgelording for a moment to point out these people are a tad delusional though lol.

I mean Hollywood and comic book evil and villainy was heavily based on white women - especially bisexual white women, white feminine gay men, and otherwise white non-binary people essentially. There is a bidirectional influence at this stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxw3zcAb2tM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi1r8B5INfU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGz8KB_b4Zk

Can't even play a conventional Gabriel lmao.

Tilda Swinton also played the White Witch character in some of the Narnia films or one of them. Some people say the White Witch character was actually symbolic of Satan but I don't think that was necessarily intentional. Aslan was supposed to be Jesus though and C.S.Lewis was Christian.

Allegorically, the White Witch could be a symbol of Satan. In the novel, the Witch plays the role of the "Emperor's hangman" and she has the right to kill any Narnian caught in an act of treachery. The Witch's role is parallel to the role of Satan, to whom the souls of damned sinners are forfeited.

Wait..

In the new series, God is dead and Gabriel and Lucifer must team up to prove the Devil didn't do it.

LOL

LUCIFER #1, written by bestselling fantasy novelist Holly Black and drawn by Lee Garbett, is in stores today. It features the iconic Vertigo Comics character originally created by Neil Gaiman for THE SANDMAN and further defined through the long running LUCIFER series written by Mike Carey and drawn frequently by Peter Gross. However, if you?re unfamiliar with Vertigo?s version of the Morningstar, don?t worry. We?ve created a handy guide for getting to know your Devil.

Oh I read one of her books once actually. Tithe? Yeah.

Sixteen-year-old Kaye is a modern nomad. Fierce and independent, she travels from city to city with her mother's rock band until an ominous attack forces Kaye back to her childhood home. There, amid the industrial, blue-collar New Jersey backdrop, Kaye soon finds herself an unwilling pawn in an ancient power struggle between two rival faerie kingdoms - a struggle that could very well mean her death.

I don't remember it that well now. What I do remember might not even be from that book I'd have to re-read to know. I'm pretty sure it is that book though.

It is exactly the kind of book I would have read though.

Not the murderous yaoi geek:

Corny (Cornelius Stone) ? Janet's older brother. He is quite antisocial and even entertains murderous fantasies, but he ends up bonding with Kaye. Along with Roiben, he is one of the main supporting characters. He is a computer geek who loves comic books and manga - yaoi in particular. He is gay and out to his sister and family, and comes out early on to Kaye.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPqv0PWST1s

Sounds familiar:



The MCU plotline made no sense because they kept her appearence the same but switched her from being his daughter to his adopted sister because they wanted to include her in a film without explaining how she was born etc. But seeing as she's supposed to be Thor's biological sister none of that makes any sense.

Let's not forget the [BEEP] coding of the Joker in the comics and movie adaptations. From his flamboyant fashion choices to his over-the-top mannerisms, the Joker embodies a certain kind of campy queerness. In many ways, he's a [BEEP] icon, a representation of those who refuse to conform.

Even though the bar is actually in hell for us I still don't see him as iconic or someone to emulate. I mean there's literally an entire cast of evil [BEEP] coded (and now sometimes canonically bisexual,) people who are slightly less bad lol.

Riddler, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Clayface, Bane:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67ISHOGdMIk

I haven't watched most of this show. I started watching it years ago and I can't remember at what point I stopped now. Maybe I watched the whole of the first season.

In the 1954 Seduction of the Innocent, psychiatrist Fredric Wertham claimed, "the Batman type of story may stimulate children to homosexual fantasies, of the nature of which they may be unconscious" and "only someone ignorant of the fundamentals of psychiatry and of the psychopathology of sex can fail to realize a subtle atmosphere of homoeroticism which pervades the adventures of the mature 'Batman' and his young friend Robin".[3] This book was issued in the context of the "lavender scare" where authorities regarded homosexuality as a security risk.[4] Wertham's work is now often criticized, with one review of his work by Carol L. Tilley stating that he "manipulated, overstated, compromised and fabricated evidence".[5]

I would have thought he'd appreciate Poison Ivy:

Many of his other conjectures, particularly about hidden sexual themes (e.g. images of female nudity concealed in drawings of muscles and tree bark, or Batman and Robin as gay lovers), were met with skepticism from his fellow mental health professionals, but found an audience in those concerned with "public morals", such as Senator Estes Kefauver, who had Wertham testify before the Senate Subcommittee on Juvenile Delinquency, which he led.[10][11]

War. War never changes.

A lot of these characters are Satanic or associated with Satan.

There are technically other types of evil and villain characters they just don't tend to resonate with people as much so they don't stick in people's unconcious mind. Part of the reason for that imo is that they don't map well onto Satan which is the most popular myth in the West (and most of the World I suppose.) Satan is coded as a woman partly because God is coded as a man and that's how the Human brain works but also partly because Satan is cthonic. And there's a kind of association people make there. Possibly tied to the fact that in many ancient cultures women were respsonsible for funerary rites.

If you get outside of this West (tm) bubble Inanna was a sky goddess though.

Of course Satan also had spin off characters like Lilith who was mostly created centuries ago. Because Satan wasn't feminine enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9fIbGEbfns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PdH-zavwO4

This is all a bit dramatic.

But he's also a representation of the "apex" of what can be achieved in life, at least based on Western values.

He has extreme wealth, has slept with several women and has a huge following.

You can deny that with your own personal philosophy (I certainly do), but on an objective level you have to admit he is the extreme end of what "success" looks like, he's at the 0.00001%.

Tate THINKS he's a model for masculinity. But he really, truly isn't though. True masculine power is in being humble and honest and able to speak on vulnerability. Being hard headed and "tough" doesn't make one "masculine" per-say. Tate is not someone I'd want to become like. He isn't a great role model just because he has a few positive traits.

No it's dumb and I'm being continously told that he supposedly has some appeal because he's attractive to women and can fight.

1. considering he's a multi millionaire who is as famous as he is no he isn't popular with women relatively speaking he's very unpopular with women. With his level of visibility most people in his position would have fanfiction written about them if they had any appeal whatsoever (hell even YouTubers with a million followers will get fanfiction written about them most of the time,) and you'd see social media posts about them. He has a niche appeal with Eastern European women who are looking for money.

This woman has more sex appeal with women than Andrew Tate lol:



2. So many more interesting guys on the planet + throughout history:

I choose to believe that Herzog shows up in random places to save people from potential explosions on a regular basis.

Yeah that's great get back to me when you move a ship across a mountain bye.

This is hilarious OK:



"The harmony of overwhelming and collective murder."

Werner Herzog tells a joke:

"Why did the penguin cross the road? To die. Alone. Insane and unnoticed."

[Nyctophilia]

It's Star Wars day.







I'm actually more into Auralnauts fan videos than the actual Star Wars films.



Creepio is my favourite character though of course.

[Nyctophilia]

"In ancient Greek cities, only the citizens were allowed to lift weights and work in the gym: slaves were forbidden. It's no wonder that the robots of Babylon seek to ban gyms for men in our time. The pathetic failure of the "swole-left," an entirely artificial construct promoted in a pre-planned and coordinated way by formal organs of the left, all of this is very instructive: the occasional exception aside, it's not possible to be "swole-left" today. Any man who improves his body through sun and steel will drift away from the modern left, a program of decrepitude and resentful monstrosity. They know this and are afraid.

First of all lol who is trying to ban gyms? But yes a lot of left wing people especially women I imagine aren't fans. And I'm going to go into why.

Do you think female bears fear male bears drifting away? They're only providing sperm.

Besides:





^ this video is funny but embedding doesn't work.

"Another factor to consider is that most of these smaller creatures like cats and badgers are batshit crazy creatures and their gigachad behaviour might be so sudden and surprising for the bear that they instantly trigger its flight response."

"Even small sassy cats are known to easily scare these big boys away."

The sassy cat is a female republican politician apparently lol that terrifies Andrew Tate:

I'm genuinely terrified of Nikki Haley.
Any man who knows how vindictive, evil, short sighted and psychotic women can be.
Coupled with a basic understanding physiognomy,
Takes a single look at Nikki Haley and is terrified.
I genuinely believe her victory would spell the end of the free world.

I don't know anything about her.

He's also terrified of feminisation and femboys:

They've brainwashed you.
That's why you can feel something isn't quite right.
Your soul is fighting against the poison they've injected into your MIND.
You must be true to yourself. Your masculine urge of conquest.
Do not be defeated by apparitions.
Resist the slave mind.

^ linked a video with a bunch of femboys

Also lots of tweets about people being demons including LGBT+ people but also fears about demons.

Lol actually! He is a sassy cat:



Oh my god they stole the 2016 tattoo choker revival idea from me too!:





I think various people have been doing this since the early 2010s lol but the timing is funny because I brought that up in a post a few days ago.

Thinking about it she turned 25 recently too I think? which was the age I was in this photo I think (think it's from around 2016.) So that's funny too. Oh no 24 close though.

But why don't people like gymbros? Let's see:

Men who are more muscular than average are much more likely to have short-term affairs and multiple sex partners than their scrawnier peers, according to new UCLA research published in the August issue of the Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin

The self-identified muscular men had not only had more sexual partners than their less burly peers, but they were twice as likely to have had brief flings or one-night stands with women. The difference in the number of sexual partners reported by the men who were more muscular than average was also notable: They reported having had an average of four partners, compared with an average of 1.5 partners for men who reported average or below-average muscularity.

In a similar study, Frederick and Haselton asked 60 undergraduate males an additional question: How many affairs had they had with women who already had a boyfriend at the time of the affair? Muscularity mattered here as well. The more muscular individuals were twice as likely as their less well-built peers to have hooked up with someone else's sweetheart.

Interestingly, women in the study seemed to be on to muscular men. When presented with six standardized silhouettes of men ranging from brawny to slender, 141 undergraduate women consistently identified the most muscular ones as not only less likely to commit but also more volatile and domineering. In the study, the women rated "toned" guys -- the physical type two notches down from "brawny" -- as the most sexually attractive.

"Moderate muscularity demonstrates that men are in good condition, but they're not so overloaded with testosterone that they are volatile, aggressive and dominant," Frederick said. "Just based on their experiences, women seem to be able to weigh good and bad male traits."

Carrying a gym bag while asking strangers for their number is worse than nothing in France:

In the first study, researchers from Universite de Bretagne-Sud, France enlisted the assistance of a young "good looking" male volunteer. He was asked to approach 300 young women on the street, tell them he thought they were pretty and ask for their number. During 100 of the encounters he carried a guitar, another 100 times a gym bag and the other 100 times nothing at all. In tabulating the results, the researchers found that women gave their number to the young man 31 percent of the time when he was holding a guitar, but only 14 percent of the time when he was carrying nothing. When he was holding a gym bag, he got a number just 9 percent of the time.

Basically guys who are overly muscular and have too high testosterone levels are more likely to cheat statistically, and be domineering, controlling, and probably bad dads frankly, so women usually avoid those guys especially for long term relationships.

BASED.
This is why you cant let women cuck you into not expanding your genetic bloodline.
Theyre the slow ones.
If it took a week instead of 9 months I wouldnt need 10 women.
Skill issue.

If you invented an artificial womb you wouldn't have to keep doing this seeing as you don't enjoy sex anyway.

Skill issue.

You're really going to need to develop a wider vocabulary too considering you're supposedly cucking every woman you sleep with. In the literal sense. Not in the 'commitment scares me and it's everyone else's problem.' Sense.

This was confusing because I took the cuck part literally then realised he was using it in the 'they got me to commit' sense again lol:

There's an active competition online about which chick can cuck her boyfriend or husband the most on video.
"OH LOOK MY HUSBAND BOUGHT ME THIS AND THIS AND GAVE ME A DREAM WEDDING AND IS OBSESSED WITH ME YAASSSSS"
They just want to flex how badly they can beat their slave and he sit there desperate to get [BEEP] twice a month.
Social media is truly poison for the female brain, because then they think they can "get" this.
They think they "want" this.
Spiral into insanity.
Yes im filthy rich and yes youre my girl and no you wont have whatever you want.
Make me a sandwich.

I wonder if that's why there's a bunch of these sort of guys commenting everytime a woman shares anything nice her male partner does on social media lol. Or anything cute. Or a guy sharing stuff. I bet it is. I didn't make the connection before.

I've seen people posting about people doing this on reddit there was this one couple on instagram which got tons of negative responses. They were from the UK but like British-Pakistani and Bangladeshi couple or something like that? I forget just they were both South Asian but different ethnic background and I think from the UK or at least travelled between countries. All these guys were pissed lol about this post where he baked her a cake for her birthday.

Back to Bronze Age Pervert for a moment:

That this resentment was manipulated itself by the Satanic power that rules our time, and that through this very drive for freedom woman became enslaved more than she had been before?is beside the point. You won't be able to make women "see reason" and love a "beta civilization"--a fabrication of the HBD cuckold crowd of our time. Women will love you if you are a warrior. And they will help, through the entirely retarded mechanism of democracy, to elect men of glamor and charisma who are our only immediate hope against the machine that runs our garbage world

Nope!

The amount of stupid stuff he tweets though is off the charts so I actually got distracted though there was a video I wanted to post/say something about:

Ohhhh. All you white boys lost control of you're women and now they won't accept multiple wives anymore.
Now they tell you they don't want anymore kids. Ones enough!
[...]
So you're genetic potential is stumped by the whims of some singular female.
A female who takes 9 whole months to grow a single baby.
Other races have multiple ovens for bread. We're not cucked.

Well North East Asians are kind of in a similar place. Probably a technological thing along with the extreme work culture and ongoing gender issues.

This tweet went on for a while all very insulting and I'm only quoting parts of it but the community notes were really funny:

Readers added context they thought people might want to know

Fertility rates have been falling in all parts of the world and among all races. The fertility rate of non-whites has fallen more than that of whites.

I'll avoid making certain additional points I could here.

Not quoting but some of these guys really do sound a bit gay for white guys with the very sexualised comments. That's understandable I guess.

I can't remember if he said this but someone did and it probably was him I don't want to search again but he was also I think arguing that white women in general are trying to have kids with black guys instead and that's so delusional lol.

I've got bad news for you though Andrew. You're half white. And if the photos you post online are anything to go by you seem to at least want to project the image that you date white women.

Oh no not the hot blond women who instantly gain mass media attention ruining your reputation:





It appears you've been *checks notes* cucked.

Still not the definition of that word.

I don't know if she's lying or not, and I don't generally approve, but these guys seem to have this issue a lot:



That's one of the guys on the Fresh and Fit podcast (tbh I don't even remember which one oh the one who isn't Myron I don't remember his name,) sleeping with a woman, getting her pregnant (maybe,) pressuring her to have an abortion, she gets one anyway (sensible,) and it turns out she was a prostitute without him realising all along. Which I thnk Destiny dug up before. I don't know all the details but either he knew the whole time and was trying to hide it or he's just dumb. To be blunt people can be like that but not if they look like that.

"The reason you fell for this is because you wanted to believe that she was super into you."

The malavolence jumps out at me so I ignore the stupidity but it really is the two in combination with these most of these guys.

But either way the money is the primary reason any of them are hanging around. They don't have anything else that women would typically find attractive going for them. In fact they seem to work hard to make themselves seem as unattractive as possible. But they have to sell this brand so they have to hide that most of the women are literal prostitutes.

Also more bad news.

Black women on reddit aren't amused with the cheating either. Or the weird justifications from various people for the cheating that they're seeing in their own families and on social media. I was going to quote because I was reading a bunch of threads but you know this post is going to be long enough. Then some guys they're complaining about are from Zimbabwe or something so it's like a global conversation lol. Some of these guys were trying to justify it/deflect blame by arguing 'all men cheat' and things like that. Also one woman finding it pathetic how some guys are enslaved to their dick.

I do have to quote this though some instagram screenshots someone included in a thread from this one guy:

Lupita Nyongo in her 40s walking away from her relationship because her man cheated is peak female delusion. Of course the sisterhood will support such stupidity with the rhetoric "you deserve better queen" as if there's any high value man out there waiting to pick up a 40 year old woman.

I mean when people say that they don't even necessarily mean a better guy is available. It's just sometimes better to be single than date a fuckboy.

But 40 year old women can potentially attract more attactive and more monogamous butch women especially if famous see: Elvira.

They can just use a sperm donor if they haven't had kids already but if they have (or if they don't want kids,) there's no reason to continue the relationship with the fuckboy because they don't tend to make good dads anyway and the kids will just grow up not respecting them. It's a myth that it's always better to have a dad in the picture. This is because in research they usually compare single mothers to all dads and not just bad dads but I once saw something that did and it wasn't good in terms of criminality but won't be able to find it now.

Modern women truly lack the understanding of how a man behaves, something their mothers and grandmothers understood very well. Men are polygamous by nature, a man cheating at most has nothing to do with his woman, it doesn't mean she lacks something or he doesn't love her anymore.

It's simply the natural urge biologically embedded in them to seek variety, the urge to satisfy his libido. And the only thing that can stop a man cheating is cutting off his manhood, other than that, he will cheat at one point or other.

And there's the need to understood that, men and women are not the same, they're biological differences. it is foolish to hold men to the same standards of fidelity women are held to.
[...]

Leaving a man because he slept with another woman is foolishness. Learn or perish!!!!

*there are. Not they are.

Lol 🤡 indeed:

Saw this on YouTube and had to share. Of course, the comments are full of dusties claiming that Goddess Lupita is "low value" and worthy of every bad thing. Do these deluded 🤡🤡🤡 realize that the world is watching and taking notes?

There are young women who are posting about how female family members who are older are telling their daughters that it's just something you have to deal with etc. But they're saying they'd rather be single.

My own family had numerous issues I dislike talking about so I'm glad younger generations (including my own,) aren't putting up with [BEEP] as often.

Because I said they cant control their women and they know im right.
So they have to act tough guys on twitter because no woman begs them for babies.
Most white women are begging black guys for babies.
I am trying to encourage the white man to try harder.
Tough love.

The only women begging you guys for babies are weird psychopathic women who are playing some game or other.

Also seems like cope for the trauma surrounding his parents bad relationship with his white mum:

Men raise [BEEP] sons because they cuck to wives.
My father lost his wife for ME.

Dad lost his mind.
What the [BEEP] is wrong with you woman?
YOU'RE RAISING MY SON TO BE A [BEEP]? Crying about his haircut?
This is the kinda man you're raising when I'm not around?
Mum started screaming back calling dad crazy and telling him to leave the house.

I heard them on the phone.
Mum: you're fucking crazy Emory why did you do that it's only a fucking haircut I don't want to see you ever again [BEEP] off back to America
And that's what dad did.
He left England.

My mother complained about how crazy dad is and how it's impossible to even speak around him without him losing his temper and going crazy.
"Forcing Andrew to shave his head" became a story mother would tell of how "insane" my dad was for years to come.
But guess what...
He was totally right.
I look back now and THANK him.

Imagine if therapy was good quality/actually worked and everyone went.

That reminds me he was insulting fast food workers in a tweet recently and someone came back with the most edgy insult response but I can't repeat it here. As bad as this post is. I don't think I can.

As for general trends dating site statistics tell a very different story that's all I'll say lol.

I need a sexy witch who is constantly telling me how shes fighting the demons which are attacking my Aura and running around with incense sticks to protect my spirit on the astral plane while im doing real things like making money and paying the bills.

Team work.

He thinks he's joking (I assume,) but he does actually need this:

If she really loves you, evil can't attack you.

A woman's pure love is a powerful protection spell.

But he's not 'programmed' to actually ever get that:

Whats the point in struggling to be the king and dealing with all that pain and stress to find ONE woman and make her a spoilt brat?
If I wanted one woman I could have worked in Starbucks.
I deserve WIVES.
Im me?

Bro... how in TF do you stomach these girls? It has to be such an epic turn off when one of them starts in on this display. It seems so primitive... in a bad way.

Just like himself.

Women throw themselves at Tate. And when he ignores them, they cry rape or some other lie. They are gold diggers. Nothing more.

Well he's not offering anything else tbf.

Poor people pretend they don't want expensive things, perma cope in an attempt to not feel the dull ache of resentment.
This is also why ugly women are feminists.
They pretend they don?t want a real man to feel better about the fact real men don't want them.
The bigger the feminist...
the more desperate she is for a masculine male.

There are plenty (well some,) attractive famous guys who are skilled etc sometimes from the 1970s who I find attractive. Do I find being very physically strong attractive? No because I'm living in the 21st century doing something mean to it



music tracks just pop into my head constantly.

It's just not very practically useful nowadays though and I don't think that's necessarily the reason or that there needs to be something that concrete but it's one potential explanation that makes a lot of sense.

I don't need money either atm and I've been kind of taught that I shouldn't rely on partners for that.

what I mean is I have a place to live, I'm not starving, I have an internet connection. My basic needs are met. I don't own a car so that's not relevant. I pirate TV shows/films and research papers and occasionally non fiction books. Rarely I'll buy an e-book which are generally cheap. I buy video games occasionally but there will be some years now where I don't. I play an mmo that I fund with in game currency from the game.

I rarely get the urge to buy clothes etc because I don't have mainstream tastes but Tumblr sometimes causes me to think about that because I'll like some things people post on that website but then I just avoid buying stuff most of the time - it's now been several years where I've bought clothes except from occasionally t-shirts or something else from concerts I go to. I've actually wanted a pair of sword earings for years now and just haven't bothered to buy any. So it's also just being lazy and not committing actually has an advantage when you're not spending money lol. Although it's also that I often see stuff on Etsy that I want to buy but the VAT situation with buying stuff on that site is an extra hassle if you don't say anything and they're based in the US or somewhere else, sometimes you get charged by the post office.

I also have to buy new PC parts now and then and that is more expensive which I don't like. I kept the same phone for over a decade. Like I bought one in early 2013 and kept that until the summer of 2023. Basically everything had stopped working on it by then due to the update situation lol.

I go to concerts 1-2 times a year and visit London for other reasons now and then. Maybe 1-4 times a year in recent years. If I had to I could cut that out to but I did get really bad generalised anxiety and panic about various things in 2022 after avoiding the small amount of things I did do outside the house for years because of covid. That could be a coincidence though. I started listening to Rush's music and using headphones and then my issues there started to decreased around March 2023 lol. Probably a coincidence though.

I basically just live in my head lol.

So not that it wouldn't be useful but it's not necessary and I would also feel uncomfortable about relying on someone in a romantic relationship economically. I wouldn't form a relationship based on that and I don't think if you did that would be healthy.

And that's another thing relating to these guys they try to attract women with money and then shame them for being into them for that reason and needing money. Very toxic. Why they think that's going to work out I have no idea.

Edit: You don't really want someone like me to have access to a bunch of money though tbh because I'm just going to do crazy things with it like commission and/or build an army of animatronic robot spider furbies and then wander around in public with them. Unsurprisingly someone has already sort of come up with this idea:



But I was thinking of the old school furbies for the furby part, and probably something larger and more realistic in terms of movement. Like those Robugtix spider robots:



Like the size of the furby dog:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEc2up6cBlE

I want a furby mask too like in that video.

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become Sid from Toy Story.

It would be too much power as you can see.

I also have racial dating preferences. They're not strictly racial but most guys I've been attracted to have been white or East Asian, or mixed race people who mostly pass as white and look nothing like Andrew Tate, or latino with a few Native American guys at certain points (but kind of redundant I'm not meeting them here in the UK.) Not that it's impossible if he had long hair etc but it's just less likely to happen because of the traits I find attractive and cultural trends.

But you're a piece of trash you spray painted gold and expected nobody to notice. Then act like it's just that they envy you. It's a cope you are a terrible Human being.

You made the mistake of thinking that women generally select men based off money but the money is kind of secondary to other things that usually but don't always correlate.

If you want to put it in evolutionary terms. This would be a huge turn off:

Yes im filthy rich and yes youre my girl and no you wont have whatever you want.
Make me a sandwich.

Because they don't care if you have resources, they care if you'll share your resources. But you shouldn't talk about money at all. You're supposed to talk about skills etc you have, show you're not emotionally unstable/patient, talk about small animals. That way women will be attracted to you even if you don't have any money. You also shouldn't constantly walk around topless and show off how big you are if you want a long term relationship.

He has some tweets about his dog so he's not entirely clueless but somehow he managed to make most of those tweets antagonistic about women as well.

And for the love of God stop calling people 'brokies.' This is exactly the kind of attitude women hate and find unattractive.

He wants to sleep around but also have like several wives who are totally comitted to him it's insanity.

And he doesn't get that and in a sense he's ranting at white guys for in his opinion being responsible for women not doing what he wants them to do. But he's not going to admit that publically he just says "they don't do what I want with you, but they do it with me." Lol no they don't. It's very obvious that he cannot maintain relationships long term. He has 10 kids and not all with one women probably none with one woman. This is assuming he even has kids, he could well be lying. Nobody has seen these kids and paparazzi are very good at getting pictures of celebs kids. They're creepy about it.

Also most women he dates or rejects (he claims some were women he rejected but that still means those are the type of women he attracts,) express extreme disaproval with him. There's evidence that he's abused at least some of them. "Why don't they quietly put up with this forever" lol.

"Why is everyone disagreeing with my tweet about white guys? It's because it's true."

Are you serious?

The people who defend him too:

You might dislike some things the media says about Tate like him being a misogynist or whatever the bullshit they say. But Andrew Tate, at his core, is a high quality, very knowledge, very inspiring smart man. All he does is talk about self improvement and becoming better. He tells men and young boys to control their feelings or else there will be chaos, he tells men to do what they have to do every morning and everyday, not what they feel like. He tells men to treat women with respect and see the good qualities in them. All he does is tell young boys to grow to be a strong and competent person or life will kick their ass. They shouldn't be depressed but rather motivated to take action to beat that depressions. If you bought and watched any of his courses, un-cut un-edited, he has hour-long videos of him and Tristan just talking to the camera about these self development topics and how to be a better person on EVERY TOPIC. There?s literally not a single video where he says to beat and rape women or whatever. That?s bullshit.

The [BEEP] you hear on the media is posted by haters who simply just don't like this man because of their own ego. Everyone has haters, Rate's haters just don?t like his fit, his demeanor, his intimidation, the way he approaches life's problems, that's all. So their excuse to justify this hate is? "he's a misogynist, end of story." Just watch one full length video of Andrew Tate, without any edits or from anyone else's account. Only from him, you?ll understand.

I wasn't born yesterday so no I'm not going to pay money to hear him say things he doesn't even post on his own twitter page.

He's classist, racist (to white people despite being half white ironically,) and misogynistic.

You own a dog.

You're owned by a cat.

Always sus reasoning.

He can't handle women again:

When I was young I used to think that dogs were boys and cats were girls.

Then I grew up and realised I was right.

If a dog loves you it is loyal until the end, even if you're homeless, even if they starve, they will sit beside you and fight to protect you.

Cats love you sometimes if you feed them always. If you can't feed them, watch how quickly they forget you and find somebody who can.

You're thinking like 'I want to have all these women at the same time but I also want them to all commit to me emotionally' it's just never going to happen and it wasn't ever really historically because... Were there ever even proper harems in the West? Probably it would have been a really long time ago.

If you just go around acting like the complete opposite in every way of what women find attractive for a long term relationships but show off your money and then are like 'I won't give you any anyway [BEEP] make me a sandwich.' While insulting everyone else as well and acting like an asshole. Only a mentally ill woman/psychopath/prostitute is going to 'play' with you.

He often goes on about worms being negative things and comparing people to worms too and saying nobody likes worms:

A worm exists in the dirt.
Unnoticed and uncared for.
Blind - unable to accurately perceive the world around him.
Ugly and unloved.
If you see a dead dog in the street, it sparks emotion.
If you see a dead worm, you don?t care. Nobody does.
There isn?t a single fable in history which has described the valor of a worm.
Or a worm's courage.
In fact,
There are no stories about worms at all.
They are insignificant to the pages of history and disappear from thought the second they are destroyed.
Even children chop them up for fun.
The musings of a worm are of no interest to anybody.
Nobody cares if a worm is happy or sad.
Watch a lion in the jungle and stare into his wizened eyes, you will wonder what he thinks.
Nobody cares about the thoughts of a worm.
Nobody wonders what a worm is contemplating.
Nobody asks for the opinion of a worm.
Nobody thinks: 'What would a worm do?'
The worm is ultimately pathetic.
On every measurable level.
And you sir.
Are a worm.

It's funny because Tumblr has a thing about insects and worms etc. It's because Tumblr is a very feminine website so it's more empathetic.

Women will be judging how he talks about worms too. The fact he's even repeatedly talking about worms and such and insulting them is already a bit insane lol.

It's like his contempt for weakness is so overpowering that he has to also project it onto other species. And that's a huge red flag.

Again to women who aren't psychopaths.

Wasn't there a greentext story related to this actually that shoeonhead once posted lol? It might have been fake. But I can sort of see it happening.

Did prageru call me a f*g?

Lol.

I mean I guess if they ask first it's OK but they should probably buy their own clothes instead of stealing women's.

Shoe seems a bit naive to me sometimes (I'm still trying to find this tweet):

one of the strangest discoveries i made recently (thanks to the Whatever podcast) was many people dont date to marry. they go in with the intention of it being short term. every person i dated was long term/assumed the relationship continuing to possible marriage. normies explain

you do not have a "breeding kink", that is called being a woman

What if I'm a lesbian who wants to knock up other women

Problem, Shoe

Im a dude

Some woman lol:

then why does my ex bf want me to get him pregnant

Yeah I like stuff where feminine guys talk about wanting people to get them pregnant including women. And that actually is very niche and unfortunately guys don't always tag their audios with that in so I just stumbled on some stuff by accident and there's probably other stuff where it's not tagged.

I liked reading stuff with women getting impregnated too years ago but I'm not reading stuff as often now mostly listening to audio stuff and for various reasons that's not common for me to listen to in audio form - including not wanting to listen to guys talking to female listeners about that kind of thing, a lot of female audios being femdom for women where it doesn't come up. I don't like stuff that's for men because it might make me dysphoric or envious these days sometimes it works and I'll listen to stuff if I really like someone's voice etc, but I don't tend to seek that out now. Just not seeking out new stuff often due to being lazy and having a bunch of people I found whose voices I like etc. When you realise it's going to actually be hard work to find things with voices you like + free + tags you like and so on it just becomes easier to reuse stuff that works.

Not all women are into the idea of being impregnated

Projecting again Shoe

I do hate the idea. But I'm also non-binary. But I hate the idea as a woman because why not.

I do think it is a kink functionally though the way most people fantasise especially the more extreme forms of that floating around it's not necessarily just someone getting pregnant there are entire dystopian fantasies. They see getting pregnant as taboo now and something they don't want irl or something that disgusts them personally so they fantasise about it in the same way some guys do with being force feminised, and some people especially women do with being raped, and some white nationalists do with being cucked by black guys and so on yes there are actually white nationalists who hate themsleves with that kink and are distressed about it. I don't like reading people talk about their very ego dystonic kinks tbh it's disturbing to me like a horror film especially the ones I'm kind of into on the opposite side like feminisation stuff just seems upsetting to be involved with someone like that. It's ironic when it's something as basic as pregnancy, but that's the culture.

OK I've been scrolling forever and can't find it I'm sure she posted it though. Basically there was a guy who had no friends or romantic relationships etc, went to uni and managed to get a social life etc by talking about his interest in some insect and I think it was worms but it might have been something else. People were claiming it was a lie but I could sort of see it happening because these people exist:



And a lot of actual insect and animal fandoms are on Tumblr.

Plus he wasn't claiming he got a girlfriend which everyone assumed. So it's not that unrealistic. It's pretty bleak when people think merely changing social environment + bonding over some hobby is an unrealistic scenario in today's culture (moving to uni makes it easier for a lot of people ime because everyone is starting over socially. There are certain periods in life where it's just easier for that reason.) I get why people think that and it is becoming increasingly hard but bleak.

Also lol:



I know she's joking but there's an unfortunate lack of acknowlegement or understanding of why certain kinds of viewpoints etc don't appeal to different groups of people.

I think the funniest cultural thing now in light of everything I've been reading, is the sort of mass fearmongering, panic and shaming of people who are choosing not to date/have relationships now sometimes intentionally and sometimes not intentionally but we just have high standards. When the standards previously were like 'get married in your early 20s and don't leave a guy who's cheating on you. He never loved you and just hope that one day things will work out.' And people tricking other people into thinking they're on birth control to get pregnant and so on.

Anywho, I (25F) was on a group call with my mother (58F) and sister (21F) earlier today. Usually we do this weekly to keke and catch up. The discussion got to us talking about how one of our cousin's husband was cheating on her w/ a much younger woman and they have been separated for about two years (kind of a sugar daddy/baby situation. They never got officially divorced). He had been running around town with this woman with absolutely no shame. Well, now the younger woman has decided she doesn't want him anymore, he's broke and (we think) back on drugs and surprise surprise, he's running back to his wife begging to come home. She's refusing to take him back.

Basically me and my sister are "lol good for her" and my mother says "Well, she should honestly take him back for the simplicity of their family unit and support? they are still married after all." Small backstory, their daughter got arrested for drug trafficking a couple weeks ago (she has 3 young kids I think?) and they are trying to get legal counsel in order for her ect. My mom thinks that it would be better if they got back together so that they can be there for each other while supporting their daughter.

The discussion got pretty heated bc me and my sister are like "are you insane?" And my mom says this, which pains me:

"I'm gonna keep it 100 with both of you and it's important you learn this now, you need to go into every relationship with a man with the expectation that they WILL eventually cheat on you."

Me and my sister basically say we will be by ourselves before we sit around and get dogged out by a man and she essentially says we are in for a rude awakening. She then gets into tangent about how men physically can?t help but to cheat (because they get Morning wood or something like that? Idk y'all), they should get a free pass and that it sucks for women but it is what it is. Infidelity runs pretty rampant in my family and I?ve noticed that the women tend to just accept it rather than choosing to leave and try to find real love.

The [BEEP] is this you know lol?

It's one thing to support a guy who earns less or is even unemployed. This is a common story for 'working class' women actually despite everyone banging on about hypergamy. It's another when they're on various drugs, they cheat repeatedly, gambling addictions and so on.

A lot of people talking about this on YT etc are from an upper middle class or lets say top 30+% of society kind of background. Have no idea the circumstances that led to most of the bottom 30-40% of society's birth in the previous few generations and well historically even.

More people are being educated now, which had led to some of this shift and is part of the reason right wingers online are claiming this was a bad thing. LOL.

Cope.

Don't get me wrong it would be nice if people could find decent relationships and I'm not exactly a proponent of the mass nihilism that has taken over, but on the other hand there are some things that are worse than being single and not reproducing in this life and probably worse for society too.

God tehse fucking tweets I stumbled on while searching for worm post. Worm post is actually very wholesome and everything I found while trying was very not:

Women will generally draft to a political position near their husband within 2-3 years if he isn't a bitch

I've never met a liberal couple that actually seems happy

it's natural for the wife to if not completely adopt, to imbibe some the husband's politics and views

my wife began randomly send me screenshots of last names and early life

I told my wife that women voting was a mistake 5 years ago. She didn't like it then, but now she gets it (mostly)

Someone responded with an image of whatshisname. I always forget lmfao. Conservative political YouTuber/failed entertainer. The guy who was abusing his pregnant wife. Enough said really.

I'm not convinced this is a universal phenomenon I think it's just that disagreeable and/or avoidant women don't date right wing men because their personalities are incompatible in the first place. You date women who are already sort of conservative or ambivalent or otherwise agreeable. Overly trusting and naive.

So the women who date liberal guys would be even less happy with you.

As the West, especially America, has become more disagreeable and avoidant over time (I believe this is happening, but in one study I read it was actually men who were much more disagreeable compared to other parts of the world,) women especially are refusing to date men they disagree with and women are becoming more liberal. The way twitter works I don't get into arguments that often I mostly just post my opinion and leave lol and often don't even bother since I am now posting thoughts here.

Politics are increasingly a dating dealbreaker -- especially for women

Then politics came up. As Nadia drove her date back home, he revealed he had not voted during the 2016 presidential election because he had not liked either candidate, former President Trump or the Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.

"And I was like 'I'm never speaking to him again," she said. "I almost kicked him out of my car."

Nadia?s memorably bad date reflects broader shifts experts have observed in dating culture in the years since Trump was elected.

My parents definitely disagree on politics but my mum would just refuse to talk about them with anyone almost as a trauma response it seems even asking her who she voted for will make her have this really intense negative reaction. My dad has typically been obnoxious about his political opinions and very outspoken. Neither my brother or me agree with him for the most part. I spent most of my teen years arguing with him and also ended up arguing with people online tons, but now try to avoid certain topics with him.

I'm the kind of person where I have to be in control so even if I agree if you frame things in a way like this I will be inclined to do and especially think the opposite and not listen to anything you say even to the point of going against my own interests it's pretty bad. I will also fantasise about dominating you and/or finding ways to destroy you so it's about the worst thing you can do lol.

If it's someone close to me I'll probably be more confrontational than with strangers - I'm not as aggressive as my mum can be with strangers like she has no issue complaining about things if she's unhappy. I think I'm less so these days though because it's a lot of energy.

I've also ended up in a lot of situations where I've put up with [BEEP] I shouldn't have sometimes also for idiosyncratic reasons like with this girl who bullied me for most of my life I didn't want to look weak to others and people kept trying to intervene. So I had to pretend everything was OK to avoid looking weak essentially. This also made the situation worse imo having that be a signficant part of my youth from a young age to mid teen years.

So because of social anxiety I'll avoid situations instead of doing what people want or risking being controlled or in a situation I can't escape from. Kind of like the norms of Japanese culture I've seen people complain about online - it's very common there people will agree to meet people or whatever then just never show haha. I mean I've done this sort of thing before not with meeting people but agreeing to do something and then not doing it, but I do try to not be that bad lol. But the agreeability doesn't extend internally.

I'm going to hate you where applicable, I'm not going to psychologically find ways to pretend I don't like many people do to cope.

It reminds me of what Joanna Dennehy said during her trial but this is an extreme form of course and she also has antisocial personality disorder:

Her sister Maria was unsurprised by the guilty plea and said, "I think she did that to control the situation. She likes people to know she's the boss."[15] Dennehy was held on remand at HM Prison Bronzefield.[16] Assessing psychiatrists later diagnosed Dennehy with psychopathic, anti-social and borderline personality disorders.[17] The trial began at the Old Bailey in London where Dennehy could be seen laughing during proceedings, stating, "I have pleaded guilty, and that's that" when questioned about her decision. At one point during her trial, Dennehy stood up and told presiding Mr. Justice Spencer "I don't wanna be controlled by anybody. I don't want to be controlled by my lawyers, by the police, by anybody."[18].

This is how my mind works lol:

They tend to be overly sus that you're trying to control them. An Anxious Attacher is always looking for ways their partner is losing interest in them. A Dismissive-Attacher always looks for signs that their partner is trying to control them or limit their freedom. Even healthy, "normal" relationship-type behaviour will be perceived as controlling to them. You'll be fighting a losing battle trying to argue this one.

Very easily triggered in this direction. And yeah I fucking hate these right wing guys on social media lol.

Now reading posts about that:

Anybody here left with the feeling that avoidants give up easily over minor issues?

I mean, in my situation everything was going great and when the first "issue" came up, he just left. "I'm gonna be bad for you", "I know I disappointed you", You deserve better and I don't want to hurt you more than I already have". Those were the things that I heard from him when he decided to break up with me. At that point there was nothing I could do or say to convince him otherwise.

I know that for avoidants is easier to run away than to work on a relationship, but for those who are left behind (APs or SAs) it can convey the message that they didn't even like us. You were willing to put the effort and discuss the issues and try to solve them, while in their heads the only solution is to abandon the ship. For them any minor issue is perceived as incompatibility. We never had a toxic exchange of words and during our relationship I was nothing but loving and caring. I only wanted to make him happy. It just hits me how easily they can give up on you. It is not fair 💔

I pushed passed it for several months but I basically emotionally checked out instantly after being uncomfortable the first time. Continuing on also didn't help because as I say the attraction was gone. He kept doing things that pushed my boundaries too so after several months I broke up with him anyway.

I went through a very very similar scenario. After learning about attachment theory, and dealing with all the confusion and heartache along the way, I came to understand that what seems like a minor issue for us (particularly as AP) might seem like a significant issue for your DA partner. What we see as them "giving up" is them already coming to their wits' end probably after some time of dealing with the issue in the relationship. To them they may have tried at least a few times and you didn't see the signs or understand it from their emotional perspective, but trust that they honestly tried in their own ways. You're not to blame for how you feel and they're not to blame entirely either.

I think it's like an on/off switch and even if you don't break up instantly it will always be a problem. Even if you can sort of talk yourself through it ime if it's significant enough you just lose all attraction. With my first ex he also continously did stuff that made me uncomfortable and didn't respect boundaries enough. I don't think I was as assertive as I should have been but there were also instances where he ignored things I said, so it was definitely a lost cause.

And it's weird when you actually are very attracted to someone and then nothing lol. I did actually speak to him about this at one point.

With my second ex who I'm still friends with it worked a lot better I think probably because he seems avoidant too. But, it still didn't work romantically + sexually for various reasons.

It's not a feeling, that's exactly how avoidants are.

I broke up with a guy after 6 months because he didn't like cats. No discussion, no working on it, nothing.

I've walked away for FAR less with zero feelings.

The cat thing isn't that important to me but I have to say after spending a lot of time online I am now suspicious of guys who strongly dislike cats. That's why I joked about the 'cat test.'



lol.

I'm sure there are lots of people who like cats who are terrible too, I mean I'm an asshole and I like cats.

They also have different personalities some are actually very friendly I had one follow me while walking to school once it walked with me almost the entire way and then another was sort of walking with me back from my dad's and it kept looking back to make sure I was still walking with it lol. Like it would stop and wait and then I'd catch up a bit and it would continue on eventually it decided to go into this one house's front garden when we got nearer to a big road.

Lol Andrew can't get cats to like him without feeding them.

Skill issue.

Maybe they agree with my bear comparison.

I'm quick to break it off with people I'm simply dating vs people I'm actually in a committed relationship with. In a relationsjip, ill emotionally detach and just let it roll out

Yeah same really. Not good.

Wow, I feel like the universe brought me to this subreddit/thread.

I'm a SA (Leaning/Healing AP) with someone who is a DA, and we've been together for two years. She recently told me she isn't sure if she "is in love with me" anymore because when we are together she has recently been deactive and not wanting to touch me. She thinks this must mean that she is not in love with me anymore, but she said she still really cares about me.

Honestly really tough news to hear, and not sure how to proceed. We're still together, and she "hopes" things work out because she says she really loves me and feels the safest with me, but I don't understand how you can be with someone for two years and not know how you feel. For me that would be a red flag, but I understand that for DA's this could just be her attachment reacting.

I think if at some point you felt positive emotions you might want to try and see if you can get that back. I have no idea if it's possible or not. Sometimes you're just incompatible anyway.

FA ex leaning DA, we were together for 11 months.

Got upset I made a constructive criticism towards her, she thought the entire relationship was coming to an end. I'm thinking it's because of my position in her eyes, I'm suppose to be an anchor of sorts, and now my criticism hurt a core wound.

Massively deactivated but I think she tried to keep some form of connection by having daily good morning texts to me instead of her usual shut down for 3-5 days. This didn't end well though.

She started getting more and more distant and I found out she actually soothed herself with the physical company (they slept together) of her ex boyfriend. Triggered me to such an extent I just blew up on her over text and blocked her.

I understand that it's hard and scary for FA's to fully connect but what the hell just happened?

Was is to get back at me for the pain, soothe her loneliness, or a mixture of both?

I know a lot of avoidants do that to distance themselves and also sometimes to push other people away. But I think it's completely unacceptable under any circumstances.

Extremely painful situation as she basically filled all the checks of whole heartedly loving me and we had planned a future together.

The entire matter could have been solved if she had just communicated her needs, but I also understand confrontation can be scary.

Pains me to have to find out the person I was about to devote my life to had made the conscious decision to find peace in someone else.

Take care of yourselves fellow redditors, FA's who haven't worked on themselves can really scar you for life.

Not communicating/distancing is one thing but unless you have an impulse control disorder I can't see how you'd end up having sex with your ex without actively wanting to hurt someone. I'm avoidant of sex in general though.

I've found that it's more about power.

FA/DAs have to feel that they are in power at all times. They hate losing control. Usually because when they were kids they were completely powerless against some loved one who abused them or neglected them.

When they sense, conflict or problem, they will avoid and withdraw in order to be the one in power, to be the one who is chased. They want to make you feel like you have no needs and that if you expressed your needs in a way that damages, their self worth, That you will lose them. That?s why these dynamics are so unhealthy and why the market is completely filled with these people.

It's incredibly sad

I wouldn't say I was directly abused by family. There were issues with their parenting but that's another matter. I was in an abusive situation with a girl I knew growing up for many years which must have contributed and my parent's relationship dynamic was also broken in terms of communication and other things I don't like to talk about so merely observing that probably factored in.

I don't think I want control or power over other people though unless provoked in some sense mostly I'd just prefer to avoid people and their expectations. The guys on social media trigger that kind of thinking, but most people especially guys irl don't talk like that thankfully. Though it certainly would make me more suspicious unfortunately now so yeah social media has definitely been a net negative for society.

Also dismissive and fearful avoidants have some important differences too and I definitely don't think fearful avoidants want power. They usually have low self esteem and avoid things because they don't feel good enough.

That really doesn't resonate with me all as a DA. Yes I was definitely powerless when I was a child, there were no boundaries and emotionally I was neglected and abused. However, the boundaries I put up in relationships now are out of self-protection, not a desire to have power over anyone else. I fear someone having power over me but I don't want power over them. I fear feeling "invaded."

they don't withdraw to be the ones in power. What's going on is that APs are connection-centred and so the only way they could imagine themselves withdrawing is if they were trying to get someone to chase them, so they project that onto avoidants. But avoidants, especially DAs, withdraw because they genuinely need space, not because of a Machiavellian power-grab.

It's kind of similar to how a lot of avoidants believe all intense displays of emotions are an attempt at manipulation. The reason they believe this is because they are not that sensitised to their emotions, and so the only way they can imagine themselves demonstrating strong emotions is if they were consciously trying to manipulate someone, and so they project that onto people who are having strong emotions. When the truth is that for people who have big emotions, it's not a tactic to coerce somebody, they just genuinely feel really upset, they aren?t trying to manipulate someone.

Could be lol. Not exactly the same thing but I think this is related - It's actually frustrating when guys don't take no for an answer because they assume you're one of the people who are doing that. Reminds me of this again lol:



I wonder if this scene is in the book since I haven't read it. God that's bleak too. Humans are just fucked.

I don't think intense displays of emotion are a form of manipulation most of the time (at least not conciously I guess in a sense people are manipulating people all the time without thinking about it,) and besides I'm very emotional. I think maybe displaying it in a very public/visible space irl like what he's doing here makes me wonder if it's fake/performative:



It's not just for that reason though it also takes into account all the other things he's said, and his generally being psychopathic. I dunno he surrounds himself with some naive seeming people (Sneako, the other guy on this podcast,) but I suppose psychopaths would do that.

There's a song about this thought process though:



For a while it was touching
For a while it was challenging
Before it became typical
And now it really isn't interesting
To see a grown man cry
To see a grown man cry

I'm lying on the sofa and the radio is blaring
And I'm scanning through the stations as the boys declare their feelings
But it doesn't feel like feelings
It feels like they're pretending
It's like they just want blowjobs
And they know these songs will get them

[Nyctophilia]

Just got suggested this video from a film I've never watched:



He's right you know:



OK well this isn't actually the part that's relevant.



"I went up to him and said, "You look a lot like Jared Leto. Do you know who Jared Leto is?" He said, "I am Jared Leto." I wasn?t ready for that. So all I could manage to say was, "Your beauty in Requiem for a Dream detracted from the narrative. He thanked me and walked away."



A large amount of this stand up is about Jared Leto lol but it's also kind of about loneliness, obsession, narcissism, anxiety, and parasocial relationships. Was slightly before it's time.

Edit: Honestly it's always weird how much of this I relate to. Ugh and the thin thing I'm thinking about that again because it reminds me of this Tumblr post I saw a few days ago and wanted to reblog because I liked the photos of Steven Wilson but someone had tagged it with a bunch of eating disorder related stuff like pro-eating disorder stuff which put me off.

I don't know if Steven ever did have an eating disorder he's never spoken about that publicly anyway but also seems like someone who wouldn't talk about that publicly. It's not obvious to me since I've known a lot of skinny guys who don't irl in the UK which is where he also has lived so it sort of makes sense.

My ex was very skinny also 6'0 so that kind of build is sort of common as well. Like tall and thin like Patrick Wolf when he was younger. But like even guys who are like 5'5" say, not much taller than me will often be really skinny when they're younger anyway. Like I knew a couple of people one I hung out with for a short while who actually looked a lot like Steven Wilson (I had a crush on them before discovering Steven, I've spoken about them, they later came out as non-binary,) and they were around my height and someone else I had a crush on also with glasses, slim, around my height.

My first date too which I've also posted about too many times he was also the first guy I kissed consensually I count that one as my first because my actual first kiss was some guy at a party kissing me out of the blew and saying 'you can tell if a girl is drunk if she kisses back.' And then I pushed him away. I wasn't into the guy I went on a date with actually because I hadn't really had time to think about it I didn't even realise we were on a date until half way through and then that was a mess and later he got really obsessed and everything got insane but he was really skinny. The skinniest of the various skinny guys I think. He also ate crap like takeaway pizza constantly now that I'm thinking about it. This was the first semester of uni.

There's a lot of skinny people in my family like my brother, me sort of but since I'm short it's less obvious I don't seem to put on weight easily though, some of my cousins, other people in my mum's family I think my dad was when he was younger. All the other skinny guys irl I've known. So I feel like some kind of thing happened there.

Lol I was having this conversation with my brother recently about surviving on a desert island (as you do,) and I was wondering how long you can actually live without food because you die quicker without water obviously and can't live long at all without that but I was wondering how long it was because I've never really looked into it. So he pointed out obviously that it depends on how much fat you have and he said we'd die very quickly so yeah not advantageous in that situation.

Now I'm wondering if this is just me.. It has to be because we actually have an obesity crisis here.

Why do British people look so malnourished compared to Americans?

Because you're used to looking at obese people. Healthy weight people look too skinny to people who are surrounded by mostly overweight people.

I dunno there's

Four million people in Britain carry a 'skinny gene' that curbs their appetite in discovery that could 'pave the way for a weight loss pill'

This is the Daily Mail so this could be bullshit lol.

A lucky six per cent of the population have variations in this gene which halve their chances of becoming obese. These people are about five and a half pounds skinnier on average than someone without the genetic quirk. They are also up to 50 per cent less likely to develop type 2 diabetes and coronary artery disease.

Did I just meet them all in my life somehow?

From the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46976031

In the past few decades, researchers have found hundreds of genetic changes that increase the chance of a person being overweight - but there has been much less focus on the genes of people who are thin.

In this investigation, scientists compared DNA samples from 1,600 healthy thin people in the UK - with a body mass index (BMI) of less than 18 - with those of 2,000 severely obese people and 10,400 people of normal weight.

They also looked closely at lifestyle questionnaires - to rule out eating disorders, for example.

Researchers found people who were obese were more likely to have a set of genes linked to being overweight.

Meanwhile, people who were skinny not only had fewer genes linked to obesity but also had changes in gene regions newly associated with healthy thinness.
'Rush to judgement'

Lead researcher Prof Sadaf Farooqi, from the University of Cambridge, called on people to be less judgemental about others' weight.

"This research shows for the first time that healthy thin people are generally thin because they have a lower burden of genes that increase a person's chances of being overweight and not because they are morally superior, as some people like to suggest," she said.

"It's easy to rush to judgement and criticise people for their weight but science shows that things are far more complex.

"We have far less control over our weight than we might wish to think."

Scientists say the next step is to pinpoint the exact genes involved in healthy thinness.

Their longer-term goal is to see if this new knowledge can help shape new weight-loss strategies.

Yeah my personal experience with this and observations given my general like personality type especially I'm sure it's some kind of genetic thing in a lot of cases including my own. Because it makes no sense really otherwise. So I don't really like when people put it all down to personal choice.

Anyway then after seeing that tumblr post I remembered I'd been suggested some YouTube shorts recently of slim musicians because of the stuff I watch often (music videos with very skinny musicians.)





So hot in that gif.

And I think in a couple of cases the musicians they suggested had had eating disorders at some point. In one case I didn't even know the musician but someone had commented that on a later video I watched. That was a weird hopefully coincidence.

But anyway Steven did look really pretty back then.

Not related to those particular photos:

#saw this and thought oh whose this pretty girl before I realised it was steven lol

Yeah I've edited this post to post off topic stuff lol. This has only happened to me once that was when he (or someone in the band I think it was him though because he was doing this for his solo album too,) actually genderswapped a photo of Porcupine Tree and posted that on twitter. So in that case it actually makes sense.

I wrote this before, didn't post it, but I suppose relates to why that stand up is so relevant:

#ever see a man so beautiful you want to die

It's painful sometimes. And speaking of that AI genderswap photo I've been staring at it again a lot the past couple of days. And it makes me wish that person with all my projections existed in the universe. And I seem to be having a lot of feelings in general today.

Lol I just remembered many years ago in my Sims hood there was a Sim called Steven Wilson that generated like some townie I guess and used she pronouns. That was a glitch though because it was The Sims 3.

Trying find the photos now it's not important..



(We really doing wojaks for Tumblr memes about Porcupine Tree albums now lol OK.)

No definitely not... The best song is (Trains is predictable lol,) Lips of Ashes or Gravity Eyelids I think. But right now because of the moment I had the other day Heartattack in a Layby is pretty powerful but too hard to listen to.





The ending of .3 and Heartattack in a Layby are so good though:



Like the last 2 minutes of this song is so good:



I do like the sentiment of the song though and Steven often plays that live even on tours for his solo albums but I don't think it's the best song on the album.



Also I get it but I'm in two minds about it because it's also a bit like 'there's no good music anymore' 15 year old in a YT comment section energy. I dunno lol.

Not the photos:



Makes a lot of sense...

You know I'm not going to post them because why.. This whole thing is weird. Also I got messaged by some random bot which freaked me out.

I never watched Requiem for a Dream, or any of the films where Jared Leto plays Joker but in this scene at least he's not as good as Joaquin Phoenix's Joker which was really great or Heath Ledger's (this is my opinion and only based on this scene lol which isn't exactly fair.)



I dunno though this whole film was really good. The soundtrack as well.

And then the way they've kind of dressed him up like a bishounen anime character here makes him almost attractive in the thumbnail which is why I clicked on the video, and his performance in the role at least in this scene isn't as good as other actors so it is distracting. And I don't find his character to be attractive and you're not supposed to so I do find myself kind of annoyed haha.

Also made worse by things I have heard about him recently and the fact I don't like cult leader types lol even if it's ironic - which it probably is in this case it's hard to say. An actual cult leader type that is - not an Andrew Tate cult leader as I was saying in my previous post comparing Andrew Tate to Charles Manson. They have a large female fanbase, are creative which helps with coming up with whatever weird belief system they invent, and sometimes have a background in the music industry.



This is just such a great track lol so posting it again.

I remember when I was at uni (not literally I was hanging out with a bunch of people at someone's house but the time period of my life lol,) and watching American Psycho for the first time which is one of my favourite films lol - this was way back in 2010. There was this girl who kept talking about how excited she was that Jared Leto has a scene in that film Spoiler: where he's killed she really didn't like him and was studying music and into rock music so I suppose she probably had more knowledge. After that I noticed more and more people online over the years talking about how they disliked him which intrigued me because it was so consistent like more than with anyone else I've ever come across probably.

But I'd never really looked into him in general. He's made some OK music and I like a few tracks but not a lot. Like I say they're 5-6/10 so I was never a huge fan but thought they were OK. And wasn't that familiar with him in general. So I had no idea why people were saying that and honestly I think until maybe the past 4 or so years there was no concrete reason. Apparently this happened though:

In 2019, Jared Leto and his band Thirty Second to Mars started a cult. The band invited fans--who call themselves the Echelon--to a retreat in Croatia where Leto, dressed in white robes, hosted hundreds of his devotees for a 3-day music festival complete with yoga and movie screenings. The band tweeted photos of Leto leading hundreds of people--also dressed in white--captioned, "Yes, this is a cult #MarsIsland."?

It wasn't the first time Thirty Seconds to Mars embraced the phrase--it's appeared on the band's merch and in their music videos. Playing on journalists telling them that they have a "cult following," Leto and the band decided to give it a more literal definition. (The Mars Island retreat was said to return to Croatia in 2022, though that appears not to have come to fruition.) But beyond the adoring fans who will pay money to be isolated on an island with Leto and indoctrinated into his cult, the actor and musician has forged relationships with a number of close collaborators. Through his unconventional methods and distinct style, Leto has made clear that his music, films, and fashion are more than a part of his celebrity, they're artistic statements. His "real" cult aside, L'OFFICIEL takes a look at the people who have helped fashion the cult of Jared Leto.

And there are a bunch of sexual allegations about him and underaged fans or something. Which is tbh fairly common among rock stars so it wouldn't be shocking I suppose.

As for the criminal behaviour. There's rumours that Jared Leto sleeps with his fans and is aggressive during sex. Some call him a pedo. However a lot of users and journalists have gone searching for proof on these claims and there's no concrete evidence. It's just hearsay, atleast for now.

If I look him up now in some reddit thread there are so many stories but even on his wikipedia page there's nothing about any of this. There are some articles though. Also tbf it seems like some people are quoting tumblr fanfiction which is not good and not real.

Me too. I've never liked the guy. He played a club I worked at many moons ago and was one of the biggest dick heads I've ever met still. Hands down most awful person. He really creeper me out. Then again, a lot of bands back then all honesty sexually assaulted a lot of girls...... No one ever seemed to care, it just seemed accepted. Sucks.

Personal anecdote: met a guy signed to fearless records, told him he looked like Jared and he proceeded to tell me a story about his (girl)friend who slept with him and gave her herpes. Clearly that's all the (hearsay) info I got.. But if the shoe fits...

He also said he was a huge asshole when he met him. He was offended (but not rude) about my comment on their likeness.

He had an ongoing relationship with a 13 year old girl I knew in high school. What a piece of shit.

His band, 30 Seconds To Mars, played in my town years ago and two of my female coworkers went to the show. His manager invited them and several other women onto Jered's bus to meet him and according to them, when Jered walked to the front section of the bus he was naked and point-blank told them to leave if they didn't swallow. As the story goes, they all laughed and spilt.

And I loved that band before. Things like this ruin artists for me. Like Ceelo Green.

Eh like I say they're OK but it's not groundbreaking:



It's so many people that it's weird. I know people lie but like it's everywhere. And again weirdly absent from his wikipedia page.

Way back in like 2005 one of my girlfriends friends came to visit. I guess she had been hooking up with Jared Leto for a while (purely consensual, she was like 18) and while she didn't say he was a rapist, she did say he was kind of weird sexually. Like, she would be making a sandwich and he would come up behind her and whisper in her ear, "I'm gonna [BEEP] you in the ass." So, while I wouln't call him a rapist, I do know you should watch your pooper if you're making a sandwich at his house.

You on about the anal, the sandwich, the kitchen or the spontineouity of it being weird?

Because I'm fairly sure if he wasn't a celebrity, that would largely be considered kinky and a little bit playful?

Hmm. I suppose a little bit is lost since I can't use the voice she used. It wasn't really a 'playful' I'm gonna [BEEP] you in the ass. More of a declarative statement, like, imagine him saying it in the same tone as this guy, except describing anal sex.

A friend of my gf hooked up with him when they were in college, but nothing bad to report.

It seems crazier than Marilyn Manson. People would show up everywhere saying they'd slept with him (I watched an entirely unrelated documentary one time where a woman brought that up,) but I think this is even above that. Almost to the point where I'm like 'is this some meme thing?' How does everyone have a story?

The video he used as an example is no longer available on YouTube lol.

i feel like he's being given a pass for some reason but i know for a fact that he had sex with an underage girl in 2010 (when he was 39)

I know for a fact

How? Not saying I don't believe you, just skeptical.

it was someone i know. i?ve seen pictures of them together, facebook posts and text messages he sent her. i would love to provide some hard evidence but she chooses not to come forward so i can't really do that, sorry

So, how old was she and why did she sleep with him?

she was 15. i don?t see how the why is relevant

of course it is relevant. Sleeping with someone that is maybe weeks away from being at age of consent is different than raping a baby like that [BEEP] from lost prophets. heck, paul walker dated a 16 yer old and no one complained because she was "of legal age".

i feel like he's being given a pass for some reason

Look at a picture of Weinstein then look at a picture of Jared Leto and you'll see why women are quick to give him a pass.

Tbh don?t come @ me but there used to be a strong rumour going around he used to have a thing with a underage girl from an Aus school. Used to pick her up from school. Couldn?t tell you if it?s true or not but it always bugged me to think he?s clearly a creep and never seemed to have any backlash for it

^ I think he'd have to be pretty fucking stupid to do that at least if she's underage but even if not really it looks really bad and if you're famous someone could easily notice you. So I doubt this particular rumour is true.

I had a friend who met him through LA parties (18 at the time), supposedly her friend who would semi regularly join them for movie nights at his place started getting intamite with him (also around 18, so totally legal and consensual). What followed was a persistent insistence for her to pretend he was her father during their romantic engagements.

Not illegal, just super fucking creepy. I was pretty blown because she got me his autograph and everything. I was a big fan of fight club and 30 seconds to mars...

Ah no I hate that [BEEP] personally lol. I don't even like how common it's become for people to use the words mummy and daddy in a sexual context. It's become very hard to avoid now in sexual stuff I consume online.

Why do famous musicians get a pass for [BEEP] like this. From underage girls to lewd behavior... etc. From Elvis to David Bowie, to Ted Nugent, to Red Hot Chili Peppers... etc.

It is partly because people find them attractive unlike Weinstein, but tbf I don't think they do get a pass as such nowadays. Marilyn Manson didn't really.

So teenage girls are attracted to famous musicians but I don't think people are going to press charges unless they didn't want to have sex with him or he does something that pisses them off later on. They could if they wanted to though if they have evidence. I've seen it happen to others where it went to court. These days everyone's stupid enough to send text messages and emails lol, but if anything went to court it would be on his wikipedia page I assume.

Also I'm not in the business of telling people how they should feel about something emotionally. The mature adult in that situation should have some self control since obviously they might not be emotionally ready for that.

This is from the talk page on wikipedia:

Was the Leto article whitewashed?

I seem to remember from a previous version of the article that there were made some allegations about "unsavory conduct" against Leto. And there's that whole thing about how he sent weird/creepy [BEEP] to his co-stars on Suicide Squad. I know Wikipedia isn't supposed to be a "gossip column". But on the other hand it isn't a marketing platform either, and the new edit does look a little "puffy" to me.

What do you guys think? Did someone turn the article into a puff piece or is it fair and balanced?

It's interesting though it kind of reminds me of Russel Brand who I felt uncomfortable by for no real reason + wasn't paying close attention and then kind of forgot about him for years and now he makes conspiracy videos online I think? And there's a bunch of allegations about him regarding sexual misconduct.

They often have this kind of androgynous Jesus thing going on too haha. To the extent that Jesus was ever real - and I think he was based on several different people realistically - none of them would have actually looked like that so it's funny. I'm not a big fan of beards either so that's kind of like a vaccine in a sense + Jared Leto was never exactly doing it for me for whatever reason same with Russell Brand. Although periodically people have been freaking out about him for decades and I was loosely aware of that.

But that's why I kind of went off IAMX he's hot physically but the cult thing weirds me out too much even if it's some kind of ironic statement. The dynamic doesn't work for me either because I like to project onto people this idea that they're humble and not aware of how attractive they are haha. Even though that is delusional.