How weird is it that out of all the things in the universe we could be, we are humans? Highly intelligent self-aware beings.
Metacognizant
How weird is it that out of all the things in the universe we could be, we are humans? Highly intelligent self-aware beings.
"When I know that I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I know that I am everything, that is love. Between the two my life moves." - Nisargadatta Maharaj
Lol they talk like robots. 'this is dysgenic.'Nyctophilia
I feel like if I don't sleep for a certain amount of hours (not even necessarily a lot,) it has a similar effect to being on drugs for me sometimes. I started to notice back at uni when I'd stay awake all night sometimes to work. Kind of removes anxiety a bit sometimes too.
Oh my God someone responded to that tweet. I'm not even going to read it lol. Yes I am I'm too curious.
Hahaha.It's a guy you fucking f*g
I don't know what I expected but that tracks.
I don't care either way my dude. Also I'm non-binary so your weird rules don't apply to me.
They really thought that was relevant information to me. 😂
The impulse is pure
Sometimes our circuits get shorted
By external interference
Signals get crossed
And the balance distorted
By internal incoherence
A tired mind become a shape-shifter
Everybody need a mood lifter
Everybody need reverse polarity
Everybody got mixed feelings
About the function and the form
Everybody got to deviate
From the norm
It's surreal seeing famous people interact like this online lol:
Also I don't find it sad it just makes me eye roll because she seems incredibly petty.
Reminds me of this. I can't believe he actually responded to this (it's why Tumblr will always be better than twitter and most social media sites tbh,) and I don't ship Kirk/Spock I like reading Uhura/Spock fanfics though but it's no surprise they won (not by a lot though,) because that was like the og slash pairing right so. Clearly.
I started reading Good Omens when I was a teenager but didn't finish it and only watched 3 episodes of the show. I was kind of enjoying it but didn't finish it. Might go back one day. I thought Crowley is cool. (Obviously lol.)
Oh no what is:
Well.. It is though right? Or progressives, liberals etc whatever.I once heard someone describe Tumblr as 'leftist 4chan" and I've yet to recovery. I've never heard a more concise description of Tumblr in my life
Imo the similarity is because both sites have creative cultures with a weird amount of invented language/acronyms etc, lots of people with fetishes/kinks and a fixation with occultism. Edit: oh yeah and the frog fixation. But there are clear ideological schisms between the most political members of both sites. That being said there are leftists on 4chan, and tradcons on tumblr so.
That's one of the best parts of the site though tbf. Though I'm still waiting for them to top Goncharov:genuinely, i don't think the average 4chan user could handle the sheer insanity that is post-porn ban tumblr, because it really is like walking into a padded room in a mental hospital. we're just mass hallucinating majority of the time, so unless you got experience from Arkham Asylum, engage at your own risk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goncharov_(meme)
It is very interesting from a Human psychology pov. I wasn't active on either site during the time most of this was happening but I've heard about a bunch of it before. In 2014 I was (unfortunatly) mostly paying attention to 'gamergate' instead.I was actually a Tumblr dude at the time, and knew a 4chan girl who I talked to on occasion. Neither of us were terribly-invested in any of the mentioned faction conflicts, we just thought it was fascinating and kept each other up to date on the situation. The Tumblr flooding 4chan with kittens thing was a vivid memory I had, I thought that was hilarious.
Also the funniest thing is there's like some 4chan musical thing where someone created a song about that.
This is just misleading I was hoping they actually remixed something with that song lol:
Kanye sampled that song in this track:
This is the original:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OvW8Z7kiws
The amount of insane effort devoted to absolute nonsense.
Can you imagine learning about this in some kind of history class lol? :')
The impulse is pure
Sometimes our circuits get shorted
By external interference
Signals get crossed
And the balance distorted
By internal incoherence
A tired mind become a shape-shifter
Everybody need a mood lifter
Everybody need reverse polarity
Everybody got mixed feelings
About the function and the form
Everybody got to deviate
From the norm
This study they talk about that shows that women who are in all female environments or primed to think there are less men than women are more likely to choose career pathways in life than marriage...
"How to get women around this? In what environments today realistically are women going to see a higher ratio of men? I guess engineering schools?"
"No they need to start going to more dnd events they need to start going to more Warhammer. No well this is a phenomenon I've noticed where women who hang out in predominantly male spaces are either like complete psychos or really cool and I think it's what drew them into those spaces. Typically the attractive women I know who hang out in male dominated spaces are generally pretty cool and it's because they didn't go into those spaces because they were playing an abritage game but I do know this seperate class of what I call [starts talking about some song] there's this sort of overweight, otherwise unattractive, really sexually aggressive type which enters predominantly male spaces and then attempts to control them because they know have this abritage play and they cause a lot of social unrest in these spaces which makes a lot of sense it's a good play honestly."
"I've always seen women who play that game like 'the gamer girl' kind of a hated group because a lot of it was seen as insincere. But the famous ones online were also hot. So I don't know if you're"
Too much biased anecdata in their content (among other issues,) and I haven't seen this personally but anyway.
"Well do you think women in the military who serve in the military which is a more male environment are more likely to get married? Because I don't super get the impression that that's the case but maybe there are too many confounding variables there."
Wondering how this applies to me because I was in all male environments from like the age of 16-21. Although also female dominant ones sometimes from 16-18, but I was studying art A level which was mostly women and I was studying a software development course which was equivalent to two a-levels which was mostly men. Also went to this game club (to play yugioh lol,) for a few years which was mostly men. Actually not just mostly I initially went with this female friend but she moved away a month later and after that I was the only female-adj person there most of the time. It was guys aged 15-23~ mostly from what I remember. I think there were some older guys but I wasn't paying close attention to the people playing table top battle games. I lived with 5 guys for a year etc. I had a couple of relationships but never really thought about marriage or starting a family at that age. I am non-binary though and neurodivergent.
My life trajectory has been mostly similar to the guys people complain about lol. But I have had some sexual experience just not intercourse and I also used to drink/go clubbing for a while and have been really drunk once. Haven't done any illegal drugs though and I'm generally very risk averse. My second ex who I'm still friends with hasn't had sex, our relationship was asexual. I broke up with him partly with the hope he'd find someone else he could have sex with. He never drank, very introverted, didn't like going to clubs etc. Very picky about people. Stopped going to a games club after the 2nd time I think because the guy who ran it creeped him out etc.
I think I'm too much of an outlier though anyway. I mean I've never really wanted to be pregnant and would have prefered to have kids using a surrogate or artificial wombs if they existed and I'm really too messed up to have kids.
Oh and they have a weird over controlling relationship regarding their kids and the guy Malcolm said this in another video:
And they also had a conversation in one video where Simone talks about her issues with communicating with women who aren't neurodivergent and she clearly has a bunch of issues there and prefers the idea of living in a gay male world. Also envies men's legs which leads her to envy some trans women's bodies but then she kind of projects her views on others (I also used to talk to a guy online who was the opposite and envied women's thighs lol):"I should note a lot of people will hear this and go wow you're much more negative on the female tropes than you are on the male tropes. Why is this? And I go do you not remember that we named all of our daughters, like gender neutral or masculine names. We have multiple videos where we talk about I do not believe modern femininity is healthy and as we've pointed out women can embody these masculine tropes as well and I think that women are genuinely better off embodying masculine tropes they are not the unique sphere of the masculine they are often the emotionally healther tropes and they are the tropes I think men gravitate towards more in our society today than they might have historically. Because the gender differences in our society and women gaining disproportionate power in our society that they have now has led many of the more emotionally healthy ie trying ie sacrificial tropes to be uptaken by the downtrodden class, which is what you typically see in a society and so they're becoming more masculine tropes."
Then he asked her 'wouldn't it be better if our cultural group were all men and he said he doesn't believe this himself but he's asking hypothetically. So she's like:
Very against stereotypes actually lol. Of course they don't always apply and there are really diverse groups of people who are gay etc but it's just what? I mean (honestly I just wanted to post this song it's a bop):I think a world full of gay men is a happier and more functional lower drama world
Even in this video it's funny this couple just mimic the lesbians really:Alaska was in a relationship with fellow drag queen Sharon Needles for four years before separating in November 2013. She has stated that the pair had a drunken physical fight after a night of doing cocaine, and, later that same night, was said to have checked into a hotel with her belongings while wearing a fur coat stained with Sharon Needles' blood. Alaska has since jokingly compared the situation to Angela Bassett as Tina Turner requesting a hotel room in What's Love Got to Do with It. She has also cited her own affair with a man in Florida as a "symptom" and "one of the causes" of the fight. Alaska was originally angry over the circumstances of their breakup, but, after rekindling their relationship while on tour together, she has said that they are now "really good friends". Sharon Needles appeared in Alaska's music video for "Hieee" in 2015, two years after their breakup.[57][58][12]
They're all about having kids and live in the country somewhere lol... No really I started watching this podcast recently and this is their energy but with edgier discussion:
He burst out laughing at her take on drama too but she was like 'well not toxic drama' I don't know if she's been around gay men much. I don't think either of them have spent much time around neurotypical androphilic people from the sounds of it. Like he came to the conclusion that trans women mostly have male hobbies but it's only the ones attracted to women really. Straight trans women tend to be very feminine in personality + interests. Mirroring straight vs lesbian cis women.
Anyway so Malcolm said this about their daughters:
I dunno why they think being in nerdy/stemmy spaces is really going to help using my own history but again I'm an outlier in some ways (not really though some of these spaces are disproportionately [BEEP] and trans too.... And I'm sure there are more anxiety disorders.)where would we put our daughters? Where would we socially engineer them to hang out? I think the goal for us is to just put them in stemmy, ultra nerdy-
"How are going to socially engineer our daughters?"
Oh dear.
I was thinking before they've kind of combined some of the worst parts of the political right's thought process with the political left but I'm not sure I want to go into all of that lol.
The impulse is pure
Sometimes our circuits get shorted
By external interference
Signals get crossed
And the balance distorted
By internal incoherence
A tired mind become a shape-shifter
Everybody need a mood lifter
Everybody need reverse polarity
Everybody got mixed feelings
About the function and the form
Everybody got to deviate
From the norm
The 'very interesting phenomenon' is called 24 years of Tories (2010 is actually when they got into power last lol.)It is men who have gone off the deep end in South Korea, women have gone off the deep end in the US, in Germany it's women who have gone off the deep end, and in the UK a very interesting phenomenon happened that you might be surprised about men and women actually tracked with women being more conservative until around 2010 then both men and women flew way more progressive with women just going further than men.
"Oh you were born in 1991? You can vote now. Enjoy no party you ever vote for ever winning lol."
I actually only voted labour once though since that time I think, so pretty much that was never going to happen because it's basically just a two party system. My memory is vague but around Brexit time or at least before we left the EU I think we had a vote for the replacement European candidate and there was like some transhumanist guy running lol. I'm not going to remember his name now. I almost voted for him but I think I voted for someone else in the end? But was tempting.
Uh it's possible that if Bernie Sanders became the democrat candidate in the 2016 election that men in the US would have become more progressive but that's just a hypothesis. Gender politics was a way bigger aspect of the previous 2 US elections compared to the... Damn how many general elections have we had in that time period... Lol only 2 it felt like we were having them every 5 minutes at one point. 2010, 2015, 2017, 2019. It probably feels like more because of all the changeover of leadership in the conservative party on top of general elections and Brexit.
There are so many problems with various points made in that video that I can't even go through it all lol. So not going to do that. Just wanted to address that part.
Then I read the comment section oh no.
Uh you can see something similar to this when it comes to specific issues like abortion where people who rate themselves as completely feminine and completely masculine are anti abortion and others aren't but that's not sexuality it's self rated femininity/masculinity. I think gay men are like 50/50 in the US when it comes to voting though.Hi Simone and Malcolm. No I don't think we're headed to a Gendered Political Divide. I think we're headed to a Sexuality based Political Divide. And we're already in the beginnings of it. The divide is between Heterosexual Traditionalists, versus LGBTQ Modern Feminists. We see this divide in film, videogames, who we associate with at work, which comedy we watch, etc. And it's making people confused about which party to choose. Some people don't want to be in either party because on one side you have racists who claim to not be racists, and on the other side you have misandrists who have never even heard of the word before because the word 'Misogynist' seems to be the only word in their vocabulary.
Another way you can look at this is, a divide between The Matriarchy and The Patriarchy in todays society. Heyero's leaning more Patriarchal, and LGBTQ leaning more Matriarchal.
I think sexuality is rarely relevant really it's just that it correlates strongly with gendered personality traits. But people don't often factor that into their research at the moment which is a bit frustrating.
I really don't think what people consume matters that much eg: I mostly consume content I disagree with. It's possible to consume a lot of stuff and just disagree with all or most of it. And actually that probably makes it worse.You should delve deeper into the topic. This political division between genders will likely worsen significantly. I believe one of the main reasons for this is the type of content that the younger generation consumes on social media. Content tailored to men tends to lean towards traditional masculinity and business with right-wing/conservative inclinations, while content for women tends to focus more on emotions and pop culture, both of which often align with progressive/left-wing ideologies. I would argue that this will increasingly adversely affect birth rates and could potentially be a factor contributing to South Korea's exceptionally low birth rate.
Jordan Peterson brought up an interesting point at one point that increasing attraction to feminine men among women might be driving political polarisation. But then never discussed this again. I don't think this is really true I just think it's entertaining and relevant to my interests so since everyone went batshit insane some time ago they might as well believe something I find entertaining and form an entire discourse around that.
He brought it up while discussing the birth control pill lol (but ftr I don't think that has much to do with this - actually in research on facial structure preferences it gets very interesting)
https://link.springer.com/article/10...750-017-0070-3
The more women were exclusively sexually attracted to men, the more attractive they found highly masculine faces: the turning point of the quadratic function for strictly heterosexual women was at a higher masculinity level than for women who reported the most attraction to women. Cost/benefit functions of masculinity appeared not to differ; rather the whole preference curve was shifted towards a higher level of masculinity. Thus, even within women who might report their sexual orientation as "heterosexual" when only given the options of homosexual/bisexual/heterosexual, variation in the extent to which women feel attracted to men appears to impact on their masculinity preferences.All these things listed impact women's opinions about attractive faces (and there's possibly other stuff too. Oh yes sociosexuality of a country also impacts this from what I remember.) It's insane.Using computer-graphic methods, we manipulated the facial masculinity of men's 3D faces to vary between extremely feminine and hypermasculine, and assessed women's preferences for these different masculinity levels in the light of individual differences in self-rated attractiveness, financial worries, pathogen disgust sensitivity, self-reported health and relationship status. Our findings show that some individual differences shift preferences towards a generally lower or higher masculinity level, whereas others affect the tolerance to low vs. high levels of masculinity.
They decided to remove people in this study (and it's difficult I guess because women will self report as straight and actually most are aroused by women in studies so I honestly don't know how you accurately control for this or what they're even controlling for):
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-39350-8
Preferences for masculine traits also vary with sexual orientation76,77,78,79,80. Thus, participants who did not report being exclusively heterosexual were also removed (N = 1510).Repeal the 19thSolve the problem discussed by raising voting age to 25?These guys should really stop pushing for this unless their end goal is total destruction (of everything I guess.)That and also only married couples with children get to vote.
I'm a bit mental so if this ended up happening where I live - even though it ultimately doesn't mean much because very little changes with the two party system - I think it would free me to just stop giving a [BEEP] about anything. Maybe I'd go off and live in the woods. I'm sure I could find some kind of militant group to join too. Basically I think that act would destablise things enough that lots of people would just stop caring.
This is actually a potentially interesting concept for a sci-fi novel like feral women and other afab people who just prey on and seek to destroy cis conservative men from outside their civilisation.
But I mean I have a reputation to uphold you know lol:
They generally adhered to a type: witches were low-status, anti-social, and childless,"These new witches lived out in the open and were even celebrated. So many women were taken in by their spells: they behaved like men; they cared about careers more than children; they raised boys as girls. Even men listened to the witches. Our societies were feminized, though that didn't mean they became kinder and gentler. The persecuted became the persecutors, the judged became judges, the last came first. Everything was out of joint."That kind of conflicts with your hair dye stuff.They "dress in ordinary clothes, and look very much like ordinary women.... That is why they are so hard to catch."
Somehow not a fantasy novel. This is actually a book about 'feminism' lol. From a crazy English guy who lives in Finland.
Lars von Trier tried to warn you.
I was writing something about witches recently actually. I won't quote all of that just the witch parts I guess
Shut up that's the coolest title ever.Why is the Witch-king called witch when he is a man?
No not that lol. Where is that thread...
Yes very similar to this but with a probably androgynous male witch. Bisexual probably. However I wanted romance and sex stuff is good too.Books with Male Witch Protagonist
Like the title says I?m looking for stuff where ?Witch? is a gender neutral word by which all magic users are called and it follows a male magic using MC who?s a witch. He and by extension all magic users must be referred to as witches regardless of gender. So none of that woman=witch man=wizard/warlock. I want woman=witch man=witch non-binary/androgynous=witch. It?ll also be a bonus if he(the MC) is [BEEP] is some way; gay or bisexual or asexual or transgender. Another bonus point if he?s on the morally grey/ambiguous side but goody good guy MCs are cool too. I?m not all that interested in romance books/books with romantic subplots so little to no romance will be gladly appreciated, if romance is present please specify. Same goes for sex/sexual content, no sexy times here please.
I was looking for this actually I started searching after struggling to find some audio stuff with this theme. I think searching femboy witch can help a bit but anyway. I think in the end I found some stuff with female witches with nice voices. And I also stumbled on something from many years ago that I first listened to that had a pretty hot concept involving a I don't need to go into this lol cutting this part out...So absolutely NO erotica please and thank you.
To be completly honest I read several posts where people said things like this about Geddy Lee:
I've always said, dude sounds like a witch. Not my cup of tee, but if you like witch-singing, this is the band for you.Some of the things some people were saying about his appearence were very insulting and so I will be cursing them.Early Rush fans used to joke that he sounded like a witch when he sang.
I suppose this is technically too but it's hot so you know it's difficult.
I kind of just tuned out after witch even though the witch character they compared him to wasn't attractive. There were way worse things that I'm not quoting.I recall a friend of a friend once tell me that he (not she) loved Rush but what was up with that ugly chick singer? He said she looked like the witch
And then I was like.. Witches are hot though. What a concept.
That's hot [paris Hilton voice] I want an AI generated romance film about someone who looks like young Geddy Lee as a witch (not reflecting on actual Geddy Lee at all of course. I've removed him from the character I cast him as. Although of course being a musician always helps.) Or failing that you know someone just writes a story that fits somehow where I can look at gifs while reading it.
This is also very correct from Tumblr (while I'm scrolling through things to find something):
My husband, after taking a photo of me in a sexy outfit which he has specifically told me is sexy: If I told people this was Geddy Lee, they'd believe meOf course.#shit my husband says #70's geddy apparently #thanks??
This also kind of pre-dates him I used to like imagining IAMX (Chris Corner,) as a witch sometimes too. And again not really him exactly...
Lol the fucking post:
Teya.
This is a song about witches which someone has apparently decided to MCU-ify:
It's by Chris from IAMX's other musical project lol.
Now is not the time
For liberal thought
So I go hunting for witches
I go hunting for witches
Head's are going to roll
I go hunting for...
The Daily Mail says the enemy is among us
Taking our women and taking our jobs
I was an ordinary man with ordinary desire
Edit: Lol in another video titled 'When Progressives Try to Solve Fertility Collapse their Answers Are Idiotic' they discuss an article written for Quillette which is a right wing news source and keep talking about progressives. The guy's solution to increase tax on the second worker in a household to force them out of the labour market and 'reduce opportunity cost for having children' is completely idiotic but he's not a progressive he's right wing so the fact that 'it sounds like the argument of this one conservative substrack writer' makes sense and the entire video concept was unecessary, dumb and misleading.
The impulse is pure
Sometimes our circuits get shorted
By external interference
Signals get crossed
And the balance distorted
By internal incoherence
A tired mind become a shape-shifter
Everybody need a mood lifter
Everybody need reverse polarity
Everybody got mixed feelings
About the function and the form
Everybody got to deviate
From the norm
From about 2017 to 2020 I was in a bunch of discord sexology servers with a bunch of trans and trans-adj people. The focus was on one very specific topic but people discussed a bunch of other stuff too and it was nice because I could be almost completely open without having to filter. One server in particular I was in from 2017-2019 was great because it was smaller and everyone had so many mental health issues and/or was neurodivergent that there was really no need to mask whatsoever.
But there were some downsides firstly a bunch of people in these servers didn't really get or support non-binary people and there were also a bunch of self hating trans people. There was this kind of heavy darkness that weighed on me even though some people were really kind and supportive. So eventually I sort of gradually drifted away and then finally stopped communicating in those in 2020.
All those servers are dead/inactive/closed now but the guy who run a bunch of them who initially invited me to the first one messaged me about some new one he now hangs out in inviting me to join there in 2021 since he lost the other one due to being temp banned on discord for like a month for being in some controversial server that I guess defied their terms of service.
I ended up joining but then never participated. At this point I don't even know if I really want to talk to people and I also don't want to have to deal with all the issues I mentioned before plus on top of that I feel like this one is even more associated with the rationalist community and similar adj groups who in general I find very interesting but don't exactly trust. They have a lot of power in the world and some of these people are very smug and show lots of contempt for those they view as less intelligent etc... Sometimes it's more obvious than others. I might be just 'seeing things' sometimes but I still don't trust people in this kind of circle entirely. Perhaps that's ironic since I guess in a sense I sort of am adj to them... Plus still follow a bunch online or accidentally run into people that have connections to that group since the wider circle is just kind of everywhere.
But I also miss the intellctually stimulating discussions about topics I find very interesting, and kind of just want to read interesting stuff. I dunno it's difficult. As time has gone on I've just become less and less willing to communicate with people I guess and more and more avoidant. One guy in one of those servers I was in seemed convinced at the time I was schizoid but kind of atypical lol. It's almost impossible it seems to get a diagnoses for anything in the UK though and I haven't been back to pursue therapy since I was 23 (now I'm 33.)
That guy I mentioned who invited me was interesting too. He always seemed to be entirely motivated by finding the truth. I've never seen that in another person anywhere ever. Not in myself of course and not even people who talk lot about the importance of pursuing the truth every single one of them are incredibly biased and I pick up on that easily like a energy that surrounds them (but also it's just kind of obvious lol they always display their various biases.) I'm probably being naive and he's almost certainly biased in various ways and that will effect his judgement becuase Human, but like he generally would acknowledge that and just kind of had a thought process where he was constantly examining that.
So I've seem him around on twitter etc and noticed he'd became disenchanted with this one researcher and other figures related to this topic. I always knew they were biased and agenda driven though the research they'd conducted previously was interesting and as a model I found it useful when applying to reality. Like it was materially useful despite being incredibly controversial which sucked.
But no it was obvious that they were biased but I guess it took him a long time to process that? I dunno. I think in some ways he maybe felt betrayed. (I mean he was working with one of them and in contact with a few, he's a hobbyist though.) Very annoyed about it anyway and he never did display emotions much at all.
I still mostly find it frustrating the unwillingness in sexology circles to explore certain aspects of female sexuality or perhaps the lack of interest. I mean female sexuality in general really is underresearched and I realise it's an extreme minority subset but why is it like everyone avoids it entirely... Like female sadists, women who sexually fantasise about being men, really any form of female sexuality that is in any way aggressive. Why is it like they're all purposefully avoiding it? But that's another topic...
trans activists said [group] were acting in bad faith. i was like "nah, you're just in denial about agp". turns out, [group] were acting in bad faith and I was wrongI think this has actually changed the way he views a bunch of stuff now.They pretend like they are just saying the truth to the best of their ability, but actually they... Do something else. Idk what exactly. I suspect [researcher] has a secret agenda of seeking to defend unfairly marginalized theories or something. Not sure. But at the very least [group] seem to have an instrumental goal of manipulating the available set of facts to serve their preconceptions
E.g.
[examples of bias]
but also I can't help but think
if hbd trans researchers (aka [group]) are grifters
and hbd sex difference researchers (aka [group]) are grifters
and closeted-hbd iq researchers (aka [someone]) are grifters
then what is the probability that the core, hbd race difference in iq shit, would hold up to me giving it closer scrutiny???They are really bad at arguing points and prefer to use ideology and politics to push their ideas out of safety mostly but also just the way people discuss things now online and the lack of communication between certain groups in discussions etc. Progressives (for lack of a better term,) don't really end up in circles with people who discuss these ideas and are also not willing to publically because that would involve platforming ideas they don't want to platform, but probably even privately because they're scared of infection. Honestly even people who are willing to entertain various controversial ideas would be deeply uncomfortable discussing anything that touches on some of these ideas. They'll do it with gender, maybe sexuality, race is further outside the overton window.Do we have any PROOF that it is not trivial to disprove HBD and progressives have only failed to do so because they are absolutely retarded???
Sometimes people will come out with things that are pretty easy to dispute.
Like take this example from Edward Dutton's twitter page (he's the 'witch book' guy haha):
There is some research that suggests political affiliation is not genetic in women (and this kind of fits in with the general pattern found in research that a lot of female psychology is environmentally influenced):Republicans: Women who have abortions r elevated in mental instability. Mentals disproportionately vote Democrat. Mental instability/political orientation are signif heritable. Ban abortion of future Democrat voters at your peril. Give these blue-haired witches what they want.
https://ejpr.onlinelibrary.wiley.com...475-6765.12517
I don't know the validity of this comment below (he had an English flag in his bio which suggests he is probably conservative and then would have no incentive to lie about this,) but it's another point suggesting it's not genetic:Political socialization, political gender gaps and the intergenerational transmission of left-right ideology
Young women consistently place themselves on the left of men across all combinations of parental ideology, which indicates that the gender-generation gap trumps other gendered patterns in intergenerational transmission. Consequently, daughters are less likely than sons to take over their parents? rightist positions, while parent?son transmission is equally large on the left and the right. This also means that left-leaning parents have a general advantage over right-leaning parents in having their ideological identification reproduced by their daughters. The study highlights the importance of differentiating between the transmission of left- and right-wing ideology in political socialization processes. Moreover, it demonstrates that the distinction by offspring gender is imperative when studying the intergenerational transmission of traits that display gender differences within and between parental and offspring generations. The findings point at the active role of especially female offspring in the political socialization process, as they seem to be more strongly impacted by influences outside the family that sustain generational processes of further gender realignment.
I dislike how people often don't cite sources on twitter and that twitter kind of disuades against this because unless you pay you can't get a large word count.Intriguingly, it seems having children makes you more likely to vote Republican, but in the UK it makes you more likely to vote Labour or Lib Dem. Very strange
I would be surprised if the above quote is true as most research suggests people get more conservative after having kids. Not age actually - millenials aren't really getting more conservative with age the first generation since they started resarching this I believe. A lot of our generation didn't pass any of the conventional milestones. We don't often own property, many don't have conventional employment, lots aren't married or don't have kids etc.
But then there are other atypical trends in the UK right? Like that thing I posted in my previous post. Young people have become more progressive regardless of gender instead of becoming polarised along conservative/progressive lines it's like there's just a gap in progressivism instead.
In a sense it is more convinient for people to view certain things as being genetic as when they don't they tend to want to control people. Especially the authoritarians.
That's why LGBT+ groups pushed the 'born this way' narrative. Though really I would think being homosexual is more biological than genetic as such. Like in utero hormones contribute in a lot of cases but not all. I think there are some genetic links but it's not straight forward obviously. I don't think there's a single route to homosexuality or bisexuality but It's probably like a spandrel in a bunch of cases I guess?
Hrt also influences sexuality but some of this influence is temporary like if people go off hrt it changes again and sometimes it's probably permanant.Spandrel: A spandrel is a phenotypic characteristic that is a by-product of the evolution of some other characteristic, rather than a direct product of adoptive selection.
Probably biological (hormones) + indirect genetic effects + social.
And I think it has something to do with the attraction to androgyny.
Sexologists and researchers more generally seem to have an aversion to considering female preferences in coming to conclusion about things... This is very weird as female Humans are very selective and obviously drove evolution. So if a bunch of women are really into androgyny, yaoi, male homoerotica obviously that would influence men but whatever.
A lot of people are still in denial about that because they want to believe women are exclusively attracted to masculinity even though most women are bisexually aroused lol.
I don't get it and half the people with this attitude aren't even that masculine but whatever. They want women to be attracted to the ego ideal they don't match I guess.
Most conservatives actually don't believe that x, y ,z is genetic and so they want to greatly limit people's behaviour and especially women. A bunch of them think that women's entire belief system is actually driven by their male partners. So you can just 'brainwash' women. It's very gross.
Edward Dutton also said this lol:
I imagine someone who disagrees with him or comes to different conclusions would be an exception to the rule lol? 😏Pretty much all great scientists in history were amateurs. If you are in the science guild, you are more likely to have the Head Girl psychology that lets you get on in a guild than a genius psychology.
I think it's mostly self serving as the scientific establishment disowned him a long time ago.
I'm not that intelligent so I could be wrong, and I obviously think a lot of his thoughts are repugnant like - he has this fixation with genius and honestly this is creepy (and some other discussion I found related to this):
And has obvious contempt for people he views as 'genetic mutants.' (I would fall into that category I believe.) Almost like... And this is very right wing in the way some people use the term to define a group of ideologies driven by pursuing greatness - everything is expendible and worthless besides that which he considers 'genius.'"Michael A. Woodley makes the point that individuals who can properly be classified as geniuses necessarily have brains that are wired differently from normal; they are programmed to focus on their destined tasks and therefore may be unable to deal with the small details of day to day affairs.61 For instance, Einstein once got lost not far from his home in Princeton, New Jersey. He went into a shop and said, "Hi, I'm Einstein, can you take me home please?" He could not drive a car, and many tasks and chores that most people take for granted were beyond him.62 [...] In sum, the potential genius needs to be looked after; because in terms of negotiating the complexities of human society he is likely to be vulnerable and fragile. The corollary of which is that when geniuses are not looked after, they are less likely to fulfil their potential, and everybody loses. For instance, the American reclusive poet Emily Dickinson (1830-1886) was 'managed' by Colonel T.W. Higginson; Jane Austen (1775-1817) flourished in the obscurity of her family and the critic and social philosopher John Ruskin (1819-1900) was sheltered and nurtured by his parents, then a cousin. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274) was looked after by his brother Friars; Genetics-founder Johann Mendel (1822-1884) was secluded in a monastery; Pascal (1623-1662) was looked after by his aristocratic French family.63 Plus many another genius was sustained by a capable wife Kurt Godel (1906-1978 ) depended on his, older, wife Adele; and would only eat food prepared by her; so that when she was hospitalized, Godel literally starved."
Obviously 'genius' is really rare, and he doesn't seem to be coping with that reality.
Lol (I found a bunch of his quotes on goodreads I don't know the context for this):
There was another blog post by the guy he co-wrote that book with - Bruce Graham Charlton ('a retired British medical dcotor who was visiting professor of Theoretical medicine at the university of Buckinham.') And there were a bunch of comments there mostly complaining about 'leftists,' and 'fake geniuses' etc."In essence, and in opposition to the past 'cohesion geniuses' of religion, philosophy, literature, music, and art that we mentioned earlier; modern 'evil geniuses' have used their creativity to undermine rather than strengthen social cohesion; to argue or demonstrate that there is no such thing as truth, or that the false is true; to assert that life has no meaning, to assert that forms of immorality should be praised as virtuous, and to reject beauty in favour of originality or even to try to promote ugliness as beauty. In other words, they used their genius to reverse the values of the past and promote a dark, nihilistic and despairing Void of a life."
Lol like:Leftists are the 'creative geniuses' frustrated. I mean, they have different personality traits of his own creative genius, but it lacks innate talent that only geniuses creative have, high and natural creativity . As a result, they use their similar
personality traits that emulate that of a creative genius and attempt to subjectively (as they always do) the creativity to something that is 'original'.
But do not just invent something original, you must have quality.
In fact, many leftists are evil (pseudo) geniuses, who use their creativity undoubtedly higher than the common population to impose their morality on double meanings and this is regrettable and totally criminal.
It's cartoonish. I'm so tired.
Lol this comment someone added some extra ideas:
I kind of like that. Mundane but painful/annoying. Lego especially.I'm the lego on the floor,
I'm the slamming of your door,
I'm the flickering of your lights,
I'm the breeze that steals your kite.
Oh god this is so off topic but that's why Colin Robinson is one of my favourite characters. I only watched part of Dark Shadows so I'm not completley caught up on that.
"Actually I live in my own basement dumbass."
Kills me.
The creepyness (another comment on that blog):
Sidetracked but yeah he strikes me as someone who people listen to because he has a upper middle class English accent, is reasonably educated/has a background reflecting that, and has heterodox ideas which seems to trigger a lot of people to think 'he must be right because people are dismissing him/he's edgy.' But in reality a lot of them are poorly supported.Force them to worship and experience the atmosphere of worship, force them to adhere to a strict code of personal behaviour and morality and you allow them to buffer up the parts of themselves that are naturally deficient. Their left-hand path tendencies are mellowed.
I can't get over the hair dye thing. Just the way people have latched onto that for decades now actually. Well I didn't notice so much until things really took off after about 2014. I never had issues at all irl when dying my hair unnatural colours really. Mostly got positive comments lol. I got negative comments for dressing alternatively in school (didn't dye hair back then we had school uniforms so wouldn't have been allowed either.) But the school environment encourages that kind of thing sort of like prison.Dutton promotes the pseudoscientific spiteful mutant hypothesis and a ridiculous fad diet known as the carnivore diet. He attacks liberals, vegetarians, vegans, homosexuals, transexuals, and people who dye their hair as "mentally ill" mutants. He is also a supporter of the white nationalist group Patriotic Alternative that promotes "White Lives Matter" banners around the UK.[18]
"These ideas are nightmares for white parents whose worst fear is a child with dyed hair who likes earings." - Eminem, 2002.
Just eternally relevant lol.
This is from Stone Butch Blues in 1993, and then a very similar scene pops up with green hair again in the 2007 film 'No Country for Old Men':
I mean they also hate tattoos and piercings and body modificaiton in general of course but they really do bring up the hair dye in particular constantly and compared to other stuff conservatives and bigots complain about which is far less mutable and significant I think it seems so trivial. It just seem categorically weird to have it there and have them talk about it so much. I know it's a proxy but I suppose like the character in Stone Butch Blues suggests (and perhaps this is part of why it bothers them so much,) it's not entirely clear what it's supposed to be a proxy for. Of course I think all their 'phobias' and bigotry are bullshit but as I say it's categorically strange. It's not actually a category of person. Anyone can dye their hair."We're talking about what happened to all the old butches and femmes."
"I think we're sort of underground," I said quietly. My heart was in the conversation Edna and I weren't having. "Waiting for a time when it's safer to come out."
Grant sighed bitterly. "But some of these young kids you can't even tell what they are--goddamn green hair and safety pins in their faces." We all sighed collectively.
"Grant," I shrugged, "who cares?"
"It just isn't right," Grant slapped the tabletop.
I laughed, which made her angrier. "Grant, that's what they said about us!"
"Well, that's different," Grant said with a wave of her hand
I leaned toward her. "There's a lot of things I couldn't accept when I was younger, Grant, like the fact that there's lots of different ways for butches to be." I watched her expression change. Frankie audibly sucked in her breath. "But now I'm trying to accept people as they are."
Another thing I've seen lately is more and more people just using Jungian ideas as an explanation for various things. In the post about that guy who's website I found which was deleted in the forum roll back I quoted something he said. This is now completley out of context but basically he has a fixation with feminity that drew me to him. Ahhh now I kind of want to repost some stuff I posted in that post but I don't have a copy exactly of that post since I edited a bunch of it. I went to this art gallery and there was a painting that was actually his avatar which was a really surreal moment lol. Like in this art gallery (Tate Britain,) and it's like this super old painting of a woman and I'm thinking about a guy on twitter. Very post-internet moment.
I can't talk about that guy in detail again though... The fixation with femininity he had caught my attention though it wasn't as self directed as I wanted (but it was a bit.) He was very narcissistic (not going to quote all the evidence for that but I'm not saying it lightly trust me.) But like also kind of cute because of all the femininity stuff and other things he said. Also the way he romanticised everything and his idealism was attractive and the dramatic way he emoted etc was sort of appealing and reminded of like eccentric bishounen anime character (a few from manga I read/anime I watched as a teen lol.) He also seemed out of time a bit probably because he wrote about past eras a lot, and it was also a little like The Extra Man film which I finally got around to watching recently. So I ended up reading a bunch of his tweets/webpage stuff. But the narcissism and looking down on people thing (and so explicitly too) is really hard to get past and why are so many people like this....
Anyway he also seemed to want to explain it using Jung:
It hasn't escaped my attention that of late I'm experiencing more and more the symptoms of what the Jungians call anima possession the surfacing of the feminine archetype in the unconscious mindAnd then I came across someone else who felt it explained why they had gender issues better than other models and they also felt it explained women who are into certain aesthetics:My understanding (admittedly limited; I only came across the concept at all the other day) is the anima often reflects qualities that you possess in yourself, or at least wish you did, harboring some of your deepest and most suppressed desires. Aside from forming a relationship with a woman who reflects it (or getting some of those aspects from different women, who could even serve as role models), another way to resolve anima possession (or, perhaps it'd be better put as 'manifestation', since in my sort of case I haven't succumbed to full-bore possession yet) is to integrate qualities of the anima into yourself.
I don't really like this viewpoint because it implies that these aren't also parts of yourself but something external posessing you. Jordan Peterson also seems to make this argument now when talking about certain people being 'posessed by a sex goddess that has taken over their minds' (he said probably feminine since archetypally it's usually more feminine than masculine.)Some middle class boring American cis women become wild and witchy crystal fairy girls who hang out barefoot in the garden listening to Celtic Woman. Why does this happen? It's not just because they're into magic or heathenry--there are plenty of women out there who love tarot and astrology and pumpkin spice but live basically normal suburban lives, even the ones who read fantasy books. It can't be because they're in love with or turned on by witchy fairy girls themselves, because I know hardcore asexuals who are this way. So what gives?
[...]
Carl Jung was not a scientist but he has this notion that there are certain notions or feelings, "archetypes", that are hardwired into people by evolution, that come out in myths and stories and dreams. And one of the most important archetypes in people's mental lives seems to be the archetypal feminine, the "anima". Jung spoke about the anima as being like a wild and feminine spirit that lived in everybody's mind, enticing you in certain ways, sometimes wanting things, sometimes acting like a sort of sub-personality of its own, sometimes just affecting how you saw things/people in the world. He thought that developing a healthy relationship with /integration of the anima was a very important part of mental development.
And he described a condition called "anima-possession" which is what happens when you became too enticed by your anima and sort of let it take over, identifying with just that piece instead of with yourself as a whole. Jung had a long clinical practice and he observed anima-possession in both men and men and women, though he thought the danger was greater for men. Partly because sexual attraction to women made the anima extra powerful and alluring, and also because getting possessed by a feminine archetype has worse consequences for men than for women.
Anyway, it's not scientific, but this thing about having a feminine mythological archetype in your head, with some power and mind of its own, which can sometimes take over--I find that it helps me understand and make predictions about the behavior and choices of [certain people] (including myself) better than more scientistic models [...]
And it also explains the fairy girls.
I also still feel like it ignores how attractive that is to a lot of people? Cis women sometimes and also trans guys who were into men historically... I just feel like it might make more sense as some kind of reproductive strategy or tangentially related to some kind of strategy. Something similar happens in other species too. Like that one bird species and the female birds even seem to be drawn towards homosexual mating. It's weird to think of birds being potentially voyeuristic (Humans just seem really complicated in general with our 4325235252352 kinks based on imagination):
Why did they conclude that though?Females often seem to prefer mating with faeders to copulation with the more common males, and those males also copulate with faeders (and vice versa) relatively more often than with females. The homosexual copulations may attract females to the lek, like the presence of satellite males.[41]
But that is how I wrote some things in my own writing in my early 20s. Like this story which I quoted some notes from in a post that got deleted but that's not how I prefer to consider my own mind now (and also wasn't really conciously about me at the time):
Long ago there was a spirit with immense powers that was able to cure any disease or ailment and, though the spirit never used this ability, drain the life energy from someone. This life energy would make him more powerful for some time afterwards. If the spirit drew enough energy, it would eventually kill them.
[...]
One day a human king learned of the being's powers, and asked his friend - a powerful fae sorcerer to create a spell that would bind the powers of this being so that he may use it. The sorcerer tore the soul from it's origional etheral form, and placed it inside of a necklace. But the soul was irreparably damaged by this action, and was no longer the pure selfless being it had been previously. All it's emotions were taken from it, leaving only a burning desire for energy.
[...]
The king began to use the power of the soul, stored inside the necklace, to heal his people of dangerous and incurable illnessses, and mortally wounded soilders in battle. But over time, the king grew greedy. After defeating a neighbouring country in a war, that the other country initiated, and claiming their land of this country as his own, he grew to desire more. He invaded several human countries.
But on the eve before his battle with one of the few reamaining human kingdoms, a group of knights, were sent by their desperate king to visit the powerful spirits that lurked inside the magical sea side cavern, and they begged the spirits for their help in stopping the king from continuing his mad rampage of the human kingdoms.
The spirits gave each of the seven knights, a powerful ability, and told them that they must locate the necklace, and then use a powerful spell to unbind the spirits soul from the necklace, doing so would weaken it greatly, then, when it was at it's weakest, they should place the spirit into a living entitity and kill the being.
[...]
They progressed with the plan, having taken with them a young baby from the villiage as a sacrifice, but it didn't work, the soul could not be bound to the young child, for the child's soul was already too powerful for it to grasp onto, in it's weakened state.
But it was too late to find another sacrifice, and they weren't sure at the time why it hadn't worked. The magic circle broke, and the spirit, no longer contained within it, fled. It was now free to move from inanimate object to inanimate object as it saw fit, it could also move freely of these objects, though in that form it was incapable of using any of its powers or influence.
[..]
The knights went back to the spirits, to ask about their failure, and the spirits explained that a young baby was far to pure a soul to be controlled in such a way, and that they would need to
find a young foetus, still inside of the mother, and in the earliest stages of development, to make it work?
They continued their search for the soul, they had several near misses over the period of 1052 years, the soul remained ellusive, but in the year 1990, they found the artifact, the soul could of course move, so they cast a spell which would stop it from being able to move, for a limited ammount of time, and then, quickly carried out the ritual needed to bind the spell to the woman.
[...]
The soul had currently been occupying a bracelet, though it did not always occupy jewlery, it seemed to prefer to, and often did, because of the more person touch. People would often wear the jewelry making them more psychologically close to the soul, which was what the soul wanted.
He had found the bracelet, on the hand of a serial killer, who had been using it's powers to kill, whenever he got the urge.
[...]
After the soul was bound to the body of the girl, it began to think for itself and was capable of more than a simple lust for power. It developed a personality, occasionally slightly influenced by the girl's, but still noticeably different.
At some point, not long before the beginning of the story, the soul realised that it was capable of gaining some control, when she was in pain - either physical, or when she began to lose control emotionally. Though it was not possible to possess her completly, it was able to control the powers it possessed, and it manifested itself by sudden outbursts of it's power that she was incapable of controlling.
She began to think of the strange power as her own, but didn't tell anyone about it, a fact that annoyed the soul, as he disliked her laying claim to his power.I thought the appeal of this to me was like a male and female character fused together kind of because I've always explored androgyny in my writing but then the spirit was androgynous anyway lol. The main character was like a tomboyish red head. That character has been in my head for a long time and changes subtly over time and in different universes. She always has red hair but her hair length changes and some other details. She's often taller than average and at the moment she's a butch lesbian with short red hair who works in a pub and grew up in a trailer park and plays the drums. She lives on this island in most of my current daydreams. I have created most of the other people living on this island and the small island near it in my head (I create worlds like this in my head sometimes it comes from playing The Sims too much.) But a very similar version also exists in a cyberpunk future universe. I think I posted about before where a bunch of people who time travelled throughout history showed up over time and formed some kind of support group. In that universe she disappeared when she was 5 in the mid 1970s after her parents were pressuring her to wear a dress and she ran off.The result of their strange relationship was that the other soul inside of her body, really knew her better than anyone else did, a fact that unsettled her greatly. Especially when she knew so little of him.
Though he claimed to be neither male or female, (and truely hadn't been in his origional form.) the voice she heard in her head was male, and she thought of him as male.
I also kind of joke that I 'cursed myself' I know this is something Alan Moore relates to lol and has sort of spoken about (which is why I bring him up a lot. Another creepy thing is that in my writing back then I actually did have a character - not either of these characters - who was loosely based on Alan Moore.)
I guess I wrote a scene where they were seperated again later (this is very cringe too):
In a later version 'the spirit' became a completely different character who was a batlike creature that lived in a different fantasy realm and was fighting in a war and then captured and bound to a Human as punishment but I talked about that one before.It's like a part of me has been torn away, like my soul has been wrenched apart. That feeling that you get when you forget something, and it feels really important, but you have no idea what it is.
It feels like I have to remember this, but I'm not quite sure what it is anymore.
Even before I knew he was there, I guess I always grew to think of him, as a part of me. God, it all sounds so fucked up, but it's like, I never knew anything else, and in the case of that power we shared, that electricity. It was a mixture of us both in the end, he even admitted that much. And now, I feel incomplete. It's palpable, the empty spot where he'd once occupied inside my mind, or next to my mind. I don't know, I don't know how it all worked, I just know how I feel now.
I shouldn't want him back, he caused so much trouble, and then when I started to hear him, it should have been invasive, and it was to an extent. But I guess, I drew some comfort in knowing there was someone else who was watching my back. As selfish as his intentions always were.
This earlier character has Satan like qualities (seems important to me,) even before I later re-wrote him as being part of some bat-like race which is aesthetically demonic:
This idea changed later too. She just gets into a fight with another boy at some point as a kid and ends up almost strangling him to death or something like that. But at this point I was really into this fire idea for some reason:note: need to think of the reason why and how she managed to use their powers for the first time herself, [...]
Perhaps she sets fire to something, she's horrified with what she's done, and he scoffs, telling her that she enjoyed it really, the energy flowing through her. (describing his own enjoyment more than her own, although what he said wasn't entirely unfounded) 'what are you? why are you in my head?'
Oh I wrote/daydreamed about fairy and elf characters a lot too of course and there have been periods of my life many years ago where, like Grimes (who is very much a 'fairy girl' in the classic sense and tweeted about this a year or so ago) I wanted elf ears.... Wasn't exactly that archetype per se though. I also went through a phase of being fixated with Vulcans.After the massive burning (need to work on the details here) she stumbles around, the voice in her head chatises her a bit, as she panics and she hisses at him to shut up, and then the ex cult member finds her, grabs her as she hears sirens, 'hey, look we have to go. I'll explain later, you have to get out of here, they won't understand.' She looks torn, 'I can help you' she allows herself to be dragged away from the massive fire, and in the distance she can hear the sound of running feat, someone swearing and shouting, 'jesus, what the hell happened' as they sneak off out of sight.
Fucking Grimes again. But she is really the most obvious high profile example of the type.
And then they might be 'turned on by' witchy fairy girls on some level. Or romantically into that in abstract. I think Human sexuality is a lot more complicated than just 'sexual orientation' at this point and that you can be attracted to abstract ideas and that people often are. Like in the abstract I'm attracted to femininity. I don't think I'm attracted to masculinity in the abstract though I can be attracted to people displaying those traits. It's like... I can find someone's femininity attractive without being attracted to them? Or at least not very attracted. It's strange.
Grimes seems to be attracted to women anyway based on a bunch of her tweets I've read.
Hentai is important
legit love hentai. have a fake twitter and insta just to look at nice illustrations beautiful naked blue hair girls. Illustations of things always better than real thingsAll girls look better w elf ears p mcuh without fail (these r the worst iteration of the elf ears tho)Hmm...Fairies Cum First EP 🧝🏻*♀️💊🧬
(Also those emojis got messed up while pasting them here lol.)
I just saw this comment it's so funny:
I like reading people's reactions to stuff.what the [BEEP] is this era 😭
fairies cum first? bruh what 😂😂
I don't think she actually released that EP? or? I dunno it says 'shelved' on one website. There were only two tracks too Player of Games and Shinigami Eyes. But it seems weird to have that as a prelude anyway (says it was meant as a prelude to her next album,) because Player of Games seemed central to the storyline she talked about? Anyway I think she lost interest in that concept now or something from what I remember reading. Musically I'm not super into those tracks but her music is generally hit and miss for me.
This track is good (I especially like the part at the beginning which has like alien planet large metal structure vibes,) but it's old from Miss Anthropocene but she released a video for it last week or something:
Grimes is pretty good but I feel like Steven Wilson did the best version of this 'kind of thing' somehow with his new album? And also a handful of other tracks over the years. Not better than the best work Grimes creates but not everything is the best thing Grimes can create imo.
Lol:
When Grimes said: αΣάἀἈψᾹᾌᾈᾌέἣ⨺⨠ᾹᾂᾂἜὲέἰἾὙὨϑϑΣααΔ
i felt thatI LOVE WHEN SHE GOES
Ȩ̵̡͎͇͖̥͇̝͕͚̲̫̂̉̀́̓̀̕͜Ē̵̡̹̳̹̟̙̮̙̼̝̣͙̹̅̔̎̐Ë̴͈́E ̷̈́̚ ̛̝̠̂̃̔̀Ẻ̷̡̳̥̜̘̪̳̘͎͕̪̗̦͖̀͂͌̆̿̎̓͌̀̀̐͐͘̚ͅẺ̸̛͌͑͘ ̉̾͠͠ ̡͓̼̺̰̌̿Ę̴̡̻̳̞̰̙̞̋̎̓̽͋̄̍̂̎̉͘͘̚̕͝ͅͅË̶̲̝͍͕̜̕͝ͅE ̷̇̀̒ ̜Ę̴̡̦̮̤̤̘͕̻̦͍̀̋̓̿̚͜͜͝ͅͅE̵̛̞̱̟̰͍͓͖͂̍̍̌̋̀͛͐̚͠͝͠ ̥͚͎̯ ̨Ę̶̼̜̠͉͕̠̠̥͖̙̐͑̓̾̇͗͐͘͜Ę̸̮͙̠͓̊́͂̔̆̆̽E̴̓̓͂̓̆̒̀ ̀͛͘͠ ̘͚͕̤̥͒̊A̶̛̞̻̜̰̥̰̯̒̓̒́̌̀͝Ą̶̢̨͕̠̪͓̻͔͔̋̍̅́̏͗̊̄͘͠ ̮̥̯A ̴͚͓̙̞̩̙͉͉̙̀̀͗̕ͅA̵̧͍̪̪͇͇͓͂̑̐̀̾̀̾͂͊̊̚Ȃ̶̛̓̋̌̄̿͋͜ ̢̞͍̙ ̜͓̫͉̮͙ͅA̷͚̔͊͊͂A̵̢̭̰̜͌̃A̷̪͚̺̣̝̺̰͓͔͆̂̈́̈́Ą̵̝̈́͒͌̕͘ ͖͎̥̪ ͇͕͉̻̱̺̬A̸̺͙̹͖͋̆͆̿̊͊̌̓́̈͑̓͘͝A̴̛͓̪͙͍͔͊̃̽́̃̆̊̑͐͒S ̸͛̒̓ ̱͕̝͇͖̣͇͐́̽̀͗͒̂̈ͅA̵̢̗̮̦̺͉̝̳̱̗̻̣͊̇̃̅̓̆̀̅̒͘S̸̀̈́̇̑ ̈̊̀͐ ̠͓̪̫̣̈́̋͊́͝A̴̢̡̨̦̰͈̝̗̱͎̼̹͇͛̍̔͊̐̅͒͒̉̈́̕͠S̴̏͊͗̏͛̚͝ ̛̓͐́ ̣̼̼͈͒͜A̷͎̎Ȩ̴̡̢̡̧̧̬͎̟̭̺̤̤͓̎͋͝S̸̈͂͐̇͛̀̃̐̍͑͂͒̓̓͘ ̧̖͉̹ A̶̜͙͈̥͈͎̤̼͋̔̔̏̆S̴̡̨̖͔͍̩̯̼̤̈́̍̑̚Á̶̗̃͛̊̈͗͆͋̄͛̈́̇̕͠ ̞͚̞ ̢͕̟̣̹̭̙͖̹͖Ş̸̲̩̤̝̮̊̈́̔͑̈̆͛͌͂̚͝Ȃ̸̧̲͔̃̏̆̑̀̀͒͜͝͝ ̤̳̝E ̵͈̲͖͖̫̩̮̰̜̼͈͈̐͐̊́͊̄̽̋͗͋̕͝Ä̷͓̻̠̰̹̻̭͈͖̝̤̓͂̇̊̐͌̿ ̬̜S̸ ͔̜̈́̌̈̄͝A̸̡̦̭̲̲͚͙̓̊̓͊̊͋́͠S̶͓̲̋̀̚Ä̵̛́̀͗̃̂̎͌̓̂̅̕̚ ̢̞̔̒ ̯͉̼̟̻͉͉ͅȨ̴̢̥̮̞͇̭͓͍͎̦̋A̵̯͈̫͍̱͖͝S̷̨̲̯͔̔̓͋̔Á̵͐͊ ͎̺̂͠ ̦S̴̰̾̽̍͂͗̓̉́̒͑̓͝͠Ȧ̷̖͋É̸̛̩̼̋̾̉͐̇̌͑͗͝͝
Samples this song I think:
I think there are live versions of some of her tracks which are more interesting too though.so this one is like my ethereal chav jam that's like ... a cyberpunk interpretation of the bajirao mastani movie (plz watch this incredible film if u haven't) from mastanis perspective, dunno if it makes sense without the low end. these r just demos bein recorded thru my phone so
I mean the ethereal parts are more ethereal and there are parts that sound kind of post-punk like The Cure or something (might be thinking of some other band but it's reminding me of something):
compare to:
Yeah I think the other version is much better.
She was tweeting about trying to find bagpipe samples or something recently so who knows where that's going lol.
I like how this is very different and more stripped back compared to most of her music and she just sings in her speaking voice which works well considering the topic:
I dunno whether she heard about that before writing the song but if not that was creepy timing.The fifth single from the album, "Delete Forever", was released on February 12, 2020. The song was inspired by Grimes losing six of her friends to heroin overdoses and the numbness Grimes felt following their deaths.[61] It was written on the same night that emo rap artist Lil Peep accidentally died after overdosing on a fake Xanax pill that was laced with fentanyl.[62][63]
She released this with a green screen background so other people could make custom videos which was cool. Here's one example:
I'm not exactly trying to insist 'everything is sexual' either but I also find the constant need to detatch everything from sexuality because Humans have an aversion to it and are defensive about it irritating too. Maybe especially people who have testosterone dominant hormone systems because everything is black/white all the time instead of the way sexuality feels when you're on estrogen. It's not that obvious or in your face most of the time like a spectrum.
Was this necessary? No but her aesthetics do kind of fit the vibe.
Actually I just noticed this image while saving that Grimes tweet screenshot I made this a really long time ago and obviously this uses a photo of someone... Not sure where original photo is from now. I mean google images or something a long time ago I guess then photoshopped it. It's just saved as 'experiment.' I was often giving people purple skin back then lol. Like in my irl paintings, digital paintings, other photoshop stuff like this lol. Also red hair again...
Also the same hair colour Florence has in that video lol.
At least this one doesn't have red hair (entirely) lol:
I mean some of it's black, blue and yellow and technically the red is mostly bright red.
So much weird stuff is just going on culturally all the time. Like all these influential people have insane ideas and it really is like this Alan Moore quote a bit:
But I only believe this in the sense that people seem gripped by mad ideas constantly not in the 'power doesn't exist' sense that this could be read."The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory, is that conspiracy theorists believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is actually chaotic. The truth is that it is not The Iluminati, or The Jewish Banking Conspiracy, or the Gray Alien Theory.
The truth is far more frightening - Nobody is in control.
The world is rudderless."
Anyway I don't fucking know.
I don't want to deal with the negatives emotionally but I want intellectually stimulating stuff related to my interests.
Aahhhhhh. Guess I'll just continue this unhealthy never ending loop I'm stuck in.
To think actually communicating online was also unhealthy and it just gets worse.
Also my friend apparently found a poem he likes (he doesn't really like poetry or song lyrics. This was a conversation we had the other day which I actually posted about lol with some other thoughts but that got deleted cause of forum tech difficulties but yeah.)
The impulse is pure
Sometimes our circuits get shorted
By external interference
Signals get crossed
And the balance distorted
By internal incoherence
A tired mind become a shape-shifter
Everybody need a mood lifter
Everybody need reverse polarity
Everybody got mixed feelings
About the function and the form
Everybody got to deviate
From the norm
Well. I'm in a really pissed off mood. (I actually wasn't when I started writing this post lol.) But my general mood state is kind of unstable atm I think. In a way that lends itself to being angry.
"The loneliest place in this world is the no-man's land of sex,"
"This strangely ardent yet sterile body that must worship yet never be worshipped in return by the creature of its adoration."
The 'sexual disconnect' bugs me a lot. Sterile works pretty well. I sometimes went with 'castrated' I actually wrote that before reading the next paragraph which is funny:And Anne Lister, writing in her diaries in the early nineteenth century, comments on how she asks her lovers to refrain from touching her during lovemaking: "I do what I like but never permit them to do so" (No Priest but Love, 85). These two formulations of desire bear a remarkable resemblance to what came to be called the "stone butch" role in the 1950s. One stone butch, Sandy, describes this role as follows: "I love to make love. I still say that's the greatest thing in the world. And I don't want them to touch me. It spoils the whole thing.... I am the way I am. I'm not doing this because I am pretending. This is my way." 1 It is tempting, having lined up these three descriptions of female masculine desire, to argue for a coherent, transhistorical consistency within the role of stone butch. Indeed, one could argue that the role of stone butch has far more transhistorical consistency than the sexual identity we call "lesbian." However, according to the model of perverse presentism I have developed so far, we should be wary of linking very different historical expressions of desire. While I do not wish to argue that Anne Lister's untouchability is the same as Sandy's untouchability in terms of its relation to a sexual identity, or that Radclyffe Hall's conception of the butch as worshiper echoes Lister's articulation of her sexual practices, I will at least mark certain consistencies in various historical understandings of embodiment and sexual practice.
I'm quite feminine (I mean some people irl have read me as [BEEP] or masculine but generally speaking,) and don't have the masculinity of a butch lesbian or straight trans guy. I don't consider myself to be part of as Jack Halberstam wrote 'Butch/FTM Border Wars and the Masculine Continuum' either.In this chapter, I examine the ways in which masculine untouchability in women has become immutably linked to dysfunction, melancholy, and misfortune. Stephen Gordon's mirror scene, as I argued in my last chapter, is all too often read as a quintessential scene of lesbian self-hatred, and Anne Lister's desire to remain untouched has presented certain problems for contemporary historians of same-sex love. In some way, across very different historical locations, stone butchness has been understood as a dysfunctional rejection of womanhood by a self-hating subject who cannot bear her embodiment. Stoneness becomes the literalization of castration (rather than castration anxiety) , and the stone butch has been characterized as more blocked, more lacking, and more rigid than all other sexual identities. Indeed, the psychoanalytic notion that all desire is founded in lack seems to solidify in relation to the stone butch as true lack, as real castration, and as the exact place where, to paraphrase Marilyn Hacker, lust tumbles into grief
I guess that if I look back in time the people I seem more similar to (Rachilde etc,) don't have whatever that is though and are rarely tops in a sexual context irl also sometimes give birth. I did find someone from Poland (?) On reddit who id'd as a cis woman and preferred the idea of topping and was attracted to men, but I can't remember if she was uncomfortable to the same extent (she had some kind of dysphoria despite not wanting to transistion I can't remember the specifics now though.) I guess it sucks that I don't fit neatly into categories. Like this:
Except I don't fit in that way either.
I don't know if this is hopeful or depressing considering it's now 2024 and this was 1928. Edit: Almost 100 years. This post wasn't melodramatic enough:"You're neither unnatural, nor abominable, nor made; you're as much a part of what people call nature as anyone else; only you're unexplained as yet you've not got your niche in creation. But some day that will come, and meanwhile don't shrink from yourself, but just face yourself calmly and bravely. Have courage: do the best you can with your burden. But above all be honourable. Cling to your honour for the sake of those others who share the same burden. For their sakes show the world that people like you and they can be quite as selfless and fine as the rest of mankind."
Another thing I dislike is the endless stream of war narratives. Which I've definitely posted about before.
I get that this was set during World War I but still.In The Well of Loneliness, war work provides a publicly acceptable role for inverted women. The narrative voice asks that their contributions not be forgotten and predicts that they will not go back into hiding: "a battalion was formed in those terrible years that would never again be completely disbanded". This military metaphor continues later in the novel when inverts in postwar Paris are repeatedly referred to as a "miserable army".[32] Hall invokes the image of the shell-shocked soldier to depict inverts as psychologically damaged by their outcast status: "for bombs do not trouble the nerves of the invert, but rather that terrible silent bombardment from the batteries of God's good people".[33]
Probably like 70% of narratives and fiction ever is focussed on war. Edit: I mean with androgynous afab characters (and also including historical figures I think) lol not 70% of everything ever. Mulan is a classic example of this trope.
I guess at least Joan of Arc (a real person,) supposedly heard voices and saw visions of saints, and people thought she was posessed by demons. Mixes things up a bit.
Edit: Also (I'm skimreading a book on/off lol):
Yes this has always struck me as pretty weird. I guess things match up a lot of the time especially for straight people but still.In fact, knowing that someone is gay or lesbian tells you nothing or, at least, very little about his or her sexual practices, and yet we still seem to think that anal sex be tween men and oral sex between women provide paradigms for gay and lesbian sexual behavior in much the same way that vaginal intercourse might for heterosexuals. Perhaps in our frenzy to de-essentialize gender and sexual identity, we failed to de-essentialize sex. The analysis of sexual practices does more than simply fill in the dirty details; it also destabilizes other hierarchical structures of difference sustained by the homosexual heterosexual binary system.
That's still a stereotype today yeah.Within present-day cultural stereotyping, gay men tend to be associated with excessive sexuality, and white lesbians are still linked to frigidity and spectrality, and white lesbian desire becomes entwined with suffusive eroticism rather than overwhelming sex drives.
I don't think most straight women articulate desire outside of certain subcultural bubbles either tbh.Lesbian feminist Marilyn Frye makes explicit the conventional formulation of lesbian invisibility in an essay titled "Lesbian Sex,'' in which she claims that in comparison to gay men and heterosexuals, lesbians seem not to articulate their desires. Her lesbian feminist reading of this inarticulate desire blames the patriarchy for silencing lesbians and suggests that patriarchal language cannot account for specialized and unique lesbian love. Frye writes: "Lesbian 'sex' as I have known it most of the time I have known it is utterly inarticulate.
This book is predominantly about butch lesbians it seems and overlaps with straight trans men. I don't think there will be much of anything about someone like me here.
Butch is a lesbian term so anyone not exclusively attracted to women using it will be hounded excessively so 'even lesbians' is sort of redundant. Only lesbians are allowed to use it. Additonally I think if you're not particuarly masculine it feels like stolen valor. Like even Kate Moennig is unwilling to use it for herself, though other people sometimes consider herself that way. Also I see why she doesn't if she was a guy in the 2000s she would be read as metrosexual.To recognize how completely we have ignored female masculinity as a culture, consider the following questions: Why is there no word for the opposite of "emasculation"? Why is there no parallel concept to "effeminacy"? (In fact, these two words mean exactly the same thing!) Why shouldn't a woman get in touch with her masculinity? Why does female masculinity remain so much a stigma that many women, even lesbians, will do almost anything to avoid the label "butch"?
"I'd call Shane androgynous," said Moennig, [...] "I wouldn?t call her butch at all. I don't think she has butch qualities, and she doesn?t look butch. I think that's an easy label to make because she's not as feminine as the other girls. I'd call her androgynous because she is. And I'm androgynous"Few of the Club Casanova kings would identify themselves as butch offstage, and many talked about themselves as androgynous or even femme. Lizerace, the twenty-three-year-old drag king deejay at Club Casanova, calls herself "androgynous" and says this label gives her "more space to maneuver." 42Lol that's exactly what I was getting at.It needs to be said that some of these women who refuse to have the label "butch" attached to them personally actually have quite masculine appearances. Lizerace is very boyish, and she cultivates a masculine persona offstage. When pushed on the issue of her butchness, Lizerace admits that she doesn't identify as butch because she feels she cannot "live up to the label." Another drag king who has a semi masculine appearance, Shon, aged twenty-nine, gives herself a more complicated label: "I am an aggressive femme. I am not going to say that the masculinity I perform is not a part of me, but I also have a feminine side." For Shon, the label "butch" does not adequately address the fact that she feels her femininity or femaleness is an important part of who she is.
There's a lot of this:
Furthermore, the relative invisibility of white female masculinity may also have to do with a history of the cultivation of an aesthetic of androgyny by white middle-class lesbians.Orlando is hardly butch in his masculine form; the perfect androgyne,Tilda Swinton captures to perfection an in-betweenness of gender, which again looks more like the eradication of gender than its staging.But how [BEEP] is Potter's Orlando? When we are not being seduced by the visual opulence of Potter's scenery, we suddenly notice that Tilda Swinton's cross-dressing androgyny has distinctly unqueer limits. As a male Orlando, Swinton performs an oddly androgynous character who can be read comfortably as a "boy" but less comfortably as a "man." Still, this presents interesting possibilities for a love scene between Orlando and Sasha, a Russian princess. The androgyny of Orlando means that we can not forget that we are looking at a woman in drag, and therefore the love affair between Orlando and Natasha has serious lesbian overtones. This also makes sense if you recall that Woolf wrote the novel Orlando for her lover Vita Sackville-West, who often wore male drag. But Potter completely refuses to capitalize on the [BEEP] sexuality invoked by this love affair, and she refuses to screen the lesbian sex scene that the romance demands. Potter in fact, saves the film's sex scene for a rather conventional encounter between a female Orlando and an all too male young American called Shelmerdine (Billy Zane) .Ultimately, androgyny always returns us to this humanist vision of the balanced binary in which maleness and femaleness are in complete accord. Of course, the image of the blatant butch upsets such a balance and offers no hope of temperate gendering; to really explore the power of visual images of female masculinity, we have to leave the androgyne behind and grapple with the implications of butch and transgender realness.OK well so then what's the problem here:but their embodiments are definitely feminized. Wherever a novel has been turned into a film (Fried Green Tomatoes, Desert of the Heart) , the characters in the novels who were coded as butch have been noticeably softened into femmey butches or soft butches. This "positive" cinema works only at the expense of masculine women.
The boxers themselves, surprisingly, also voice assurances that their physical toughness is not accompanied by a depletion in femininity. A black female boxer, Fosteres Joseph, the Super-Welterweight champion in 1995, voices a common defense of the femininity of the female fighter. She says: "We're fighting a society that says women should be in the house with the children.... We have our father's genes as men have their mother's. Men can work on the feminine side, so why shouldn't we box? I love romance and flowery dresses, too, but I'm asserting my femininity by being true to my nature." 4 There is a missed step in Joseph's articulation of her right to fight. "Men can work on the feminine side," she argues, "so why shouldn't we box." The implication, of course, is that men can work on their feminine sides, and therefore women should be able to work on their masculinity. But masculinity is completely factored out of the equation between women and boxing, and we are left with a formulation of female boxing as an expression of a true femininity.I mean do you suppose femme lesbians would feel differently? People who identify with femininity are going to try to avoid it being erased and I've seen a lot of black women express frustration with being percieved as more masculine.As I have noted several times in this book, black women face far more damning accusations of masculinity than white women in our society, and one can certainly understand Joseph's desire here to protect the image of black womanhood from the usual damaging stereotypes. But there is always a subtle level of homophobia built into the defense of femininity by any female fighter. A charge of masculinity coupled with active female strength, this article presumes, must add up to lesbianism, and it is the charge of lesbianism that the women in this article and the sports writer seem anxious to avoid.5
Furthermore it doesn't really make sense to question why a woman might not identify as butch or very masculine when it's ultimately inflexible and then softens the definition which leads to less representation potentially in film.
Having someone call you a lesbian does not require being that masculine ime anyway. There's actually quite a diverse range of presentations and behaviour that can get read that way. Also well tbf this book was written before gaylors lol. Every famous woman is a lesbian now. (In theory lol. I suppose some might also get headcannon'd as bisexual as well.) Also everyone is trans according to transvestigators.
It is different though when people are kind of wishing it's true then when it's treated like an insult. In my life it only happened a few times (mostly the same person harassing me,) and was always treated as some kind of negative or there was some accusation attatched to it or harassment. Likewise when anyone ever commented on me not being feminine enough or reacting to some masculine thing that was almost always negative. Except the time I saved my housemate who I was sometimes crushing on even though he often commented negatively on my various masculine/not feminine enough traits from the spider. Then he called me my hero on facebook or something. And that's now my role in life. Remover of spiders.
I'm not entirely sure about that anymore based on how little it takes to trigger people online these days. But in general I would say it's mostly only threatning at the point where you're seen to be emasculating men. Not that I think something has to be menacing or transgressive to be talked about. That's a weird standard.Because female masculinity seems to be at its most threatening when coupled with lesbian desire, in this book I concentrate on [BEEP] female masculinity almost to the exclusion of heterosexual female masculinity. I have no
doubt that heterosexual female masculinity menaces gender conformity in its own way, but all too often it represents an acceptable degree of female masculinity as compared to the excessive masculinity of the dyke.
The stone butch has the dubious distinction of being possibly the only sexual identity defined almost solely in terms of what practices she does not engage in. Is there any other sexual identity, we might ask, defined by what a person will not do? What does it mean to define a sexual identity and a set of sexual practices that coalesce around that identity within a negative register? What are the implications of a negative performativity for theorizing sexual subjectivities? Furthermore, could we even imagine designating male sexual identities in terms of nonperformance? [...]
Many men do not invite sexual penetration as part of their sexual routines, and yet such an omission occasions little to no comment and certainly has not been diagnosed as part of a sexually dysfunctional complex.Lol this is as close as I think it's going to get. Also this is from 1998 so that makes sense a bit. I think it makes it really incomplete though.there are also heterosexual women and femme lesbians who may also eschew penetration, and we can label such women "stone femmes." Stone femininity gives rise to a whole set of interesting questions about the noncontinuities between feminine identification and passivity or femininity and receptivity.30
I think the label stone femme was often used for someone who was partnered with a stone butch lesbian but has sort of become detatched from that very recently to mean just that. But I think most people are ultimately abandoning this construct altogether in favour of various alternatives.
This was a review someone posted:The stone butch, as I will argue, is a [BEEP] body placed somewhere on the boundary between female masculinity and transgender subjectivity and seems to provoke unwarranted outrage not only from a gender-conformist society that cannot comprehend stone butch gender or stone butch desire but also from within the [BEEP] subculture, where the stone butch tends to be read as frigid, dysphoric, misogynist, repressed, or simply pretrans sexual
I am trying to learn my history as a white [BEEP] transman but my God what a tedious fucking chapter this isIt's an incredibly narrow lens huh? I don't think anyone's attempted to do this for the other spectrum either (not that it's seen as welcome by most when people do, but I think it is personally interesting,) because one side is kind of buried under ground. Again the closest modern stuff we can get is from outside the West (like papers about the 'nisu' subculture.) There were some prior subcultures that I wasn't connected to that would be controversial now and didn't really resonate with me fully I dunno. I feel like I have to be missing something though.The long-standing unintelligibility of white [BEEP] ftms. [...] But this unspeakability this unintelligibility comes from this is what a man is (straight) and you are not a man and the people you desire are not men or women so what can you be? I keep slipping out the bottom of the category straight even as I inhabited a version of the category masculinity (without the sign of man) and now the sign of man without the hetero masculinity (aka with the [BEEP] or gay male masculinity) the terms of my gender were defined by the poles of butch and swish and my orientation slips out the bottom of the category straight so it can only be [BEEP] even as my partners are or fret over being bi.
I think maybe it would work better if people, as someone on twitter suggested, wrote something about all the borderlands not just one or two. This is the kind of writing that I don't really see happening because of how so many people want to perpetuate certain hierarchies and increase distance between groups of people.
I don't want to dispute the right of trans women and trans men who came up through gay & lesbian scenes. That's awesome, I relate, and I respect you.
But I do want to propose this [BEEP] "borderlands" narrative functions as a kind of attack on transgender possibilities.
Yes, there *is* a "borderlands" between gay men and trans women, lesbians and trans men, but there's also borderlands between lesbians & gay men, trans & cis men, straight boys & girls, trans & cis women.
And it's time to theorize that seriously, as more than liberal anodyne. [...]
Lou expressed some attachments to "female-to-male crossdressers," writing guidebooks for them as well as FtMs generally. But he didn't really relate to drag kings.
Lou related to drag *queens*.
I am a trans woman, but to me this is so obvious. Of course a man who was forced to be like a woman as a kid relates to *men dressing up as women* - not women dressing up as men.
I've heard Lou's feelings here repeated by quite a few trans guy friends. A lot.
Drag kings are more insular to lesbian communities. But I'll say that I, personally, have always related to women who were unusual in sex and gender. Many of my good girl friends are cis, and lesbian, even though I'm neither.
And we do see Lou's feelings mirrored by trans women.Interesting.IKR! Jack Halberstam has written about the '90s "borderlands" turf wars between FtMs and butches. But I assume the '10s will be remembered for the borderlands between butch lesbians and effeminate gay guys!
I guess this is what the haters call "postmodernism," huh?
It's not so visible but you can see some kind of fantasy overlap. It pops up in 'girls who like boys who like boys' by Lucy Neville but I haven't read the book I've just seen references to it floating around and also Contrapoints has brought it up a few times and the lesbian women who read yaoi etc. The book (and her videos referencing it,) seem to be a bit binary focussed and outdated in that sense (also as per usual bisexual erasure.)
I know there are people who have gone from one sexuality to another over the years too of course. Like one non-binary Youtuber I'm subscribed to lived as a gay guy, then came out as a trans woman, then non-binary then came out as lesbian I think or mostly lesbian. Some trans guys live as lesbians before transistioning. Some lesbians consider themselves males sexually (like both people in the couple,) while also being female.
And of course this (which is proving controversial as it's a form of identification role reversal. As I mentioned before feminising men is always controversial too. They dislike this more when it's attatched to danmei culture but seem to dislike it either way.)
Furthermore, Huang (2021) identified three characteristics of nisu fans' expressions on social media: addressing men with titles of female relatives such as "wife" and "daughter"; using Chinese adjectives that are usually reserved for women such as "pretty" (漂亮) and "delicate" (娇弱) to describe men; and having sexual fantasies that imagine men as women.Yes it's very interesting. You can imagine all kind of bisexual realities.Wang (2022) has noted that the nisu craze, which reverses the gender and temperament of idols, is the most typical aesthetic representation of fandom culture. The main characteristics of nisu fans are their preference for gender bending, obsession with "pale-skinned and slim little girls," and self-identification as pioneers. The rise of nisu's aesthetics reflects not only the crisis of identity in the digital age but also deep-seated anxieties about personal identity, image, and social circles.
"It's all ammunition for the gender bend and the bedroom twist. They say that the fashion's just not feminist." And neither is sexuality more broadly."I believe that nisu behavior is anti-feminist. Although women can now openly gaze at men and indulge in sexual fantasies about their favorite male celebrities, they have to adopt a male perspective to simulate certain behaviors that men do to women. This results in a serious lack of the female perspective."
Actually the bolded part isn't an essential aspect at all though (at least not in the West.) On Tumblr there are people who do this from a female pov sometimes or exclusively. I see them refer to men as their lesbian girlfriends etc. I'm sure this is actually more controversial politically though.
Several studies have shown a strong connection between nisu culture and danmei culture. Xiang et al.'s (2021) research on nisu fanfic indicates that the Chinese nisu fanfic's birth background is inseparable from the dynamic development of danmei writing. The audience groups of nisu fanfic and danmei texts overlap significantlylol 'nisuing another person.'"When someone is nisuing another person, is the fan's perspective male or female? If it's a male perspective, isn't it still a man gazing at a woman?"
Women seem unable to express their sexual desires openly, thus necessitating this twisted method. As a result, women may be unable to fully embrace and enjoy the sexual experiences that are naturally associated with the female body.I want to [BEEP] him but I don't have a penis.You can kind of see the simlarities to 'stone butch' in some complaints.think I'm looking at Zhou from a male perspective. I sometimes feel like if I were a man, I might like this guy. When I watch the show, I also take the perspective of Wen.
I'm also intrigued by the repeated attempts to define these women as universally heterosexual when we know from surveys most Western people into similar content are bisexual and often lots of non-binary people (not a majority because a tiny minority in general, but disproportionate.) There are of course the lesbian fans too of genres like yaoi. I would imagine people in China are much less likely to adopt LGBT+ labels and identities though.
As I said before though:
with good reason! Then I get stuck in a loop of 'oh well men get a lot of [BEEP] too but I don't think they care - oh wait they do now that's part of why nobody really has any interest in sex/relationships these days besides an increasingly small minority right.' Haha.I don't think most straight women articulate desire outside of certain subcultural bubbles either tbh.
This newish paper isn't available/on sci-hub yet nuuu:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...4.2320687?src=
I ended up on some subreddit for binary trans men recently because of a discussion about Leslie Feinberg there where they were complaining about people considering her a trans guy because of her complicated relationship with gender. Found this post below in that thread which didn't really make much sense according to the historical definition of tomboy which included being athletic and masculine typically but maybe describes the brief period of my own youth during the 2000s where there was an association with 'rock chick aesthetics' but even then most of the examples were just women. Like if you think of famous examples they'd all be women with an aesthetic like Avril (during her early career of course,) or Brody Dalle etc and now the term online is used a lot by guys to describe muscular women they find attractive or some kind of anime thing.Findings are presented in two parts. First, nisu fans build three types of fan-celebrity connections: 1) praising actor(s) for performing feminine qualities, 2) gazing at actor(s) from a dominant position, and 3) appreciating actor(s)' potential gender non-binary charisma. Second, nisu fans understand both how their emerging awareness and expressions of gender beliefs challenge traditional gender norms and how their practices remain intuitive and implicit rather than political. I conclude that nisu fans' playful gender reconfiguration with fandom ultimately inspires meaningful developments of gender discourses in broader Chinese society.
Then read another thread:Ya, back in the old days there wasn't really any term for femboy trans men, so many of them used the term "tomboy."
I think "Tomboy" was historically used by fem gay trans guys and nonbinary people who were socialized as women and didn't really "feel" like a girl, but still liked dressing girly. It was kinda a term that meant someone who LOOKED like a girl but acted like a boy.
Nowadays the term has traded hands, because femboy's and guy trans guys no longer use the term anymore because they have a better term.
So now the term "Tomboy" means the opposite now that it was given to the women community. Tomboy now refers to someone who acts and feels like a girl, but likes to dress tough or likes to be athletic and outdoorsy.
Why are non-binary people commenting their opinions on this sub?Lol I just realised 'most of my friends are trans masc'Fr it drives me crazy- and its frustrating to constantly hear the excuse of 'we have similar experiences' because we rarely do. Most my friends are transmasc and its crazy to me because they?ll talk about how they relate to my experiences constantly but i dont relate to them at all. We dont have the same transition goals, dont experience gender or dysphoria the same, even the social issues we face are drastically different.
I dont relate or understand someone whose trying to microdose on testosterone because they only want the voice drop and nothing else. I dont relate to someone who gets sad at the idea of looking like a man. I dont relate to complex and abstract genders.
[...]
Trans men are transition to appear more male and that means all the physical and social factors that come with being male- changing body language, extra hair growth and top/bottom surgeries are all part of that. Why would you want to be in a community where that is celebrated and desired if you find that goal disgusting and cannot for the life of you keep your mouth shut.
Why though?
I wouldn't obviously suggest non-binary people post on that sub. I wouldn't either. I think they can post on r/ftm anyway. But if you post about non-binary people and they stumble on it it's a bit much to be like 'Nope.'
Somehow I doubt this happens as much in the spaces for trans women.I just want to say the only people I've met irl who were trans or came out as trans later on after I knew them were trans women or amab non-binary. My brother has known a few trans people and I think aside from me they were all amab too (not sure if they were all trans women or not now he said one was bigender but I think later came out as a trans woman.) This is more because of the kind of spaces we've been in over the years though. He's into a lot of nerdy male hobbies so he meets [BEEP] trans women I think, and I studied a video game related degree and worked with programmers too so that's a stereotype for trans women.In general there don't seem to be nearly as many NB transfem people as there are NB transmasc people. I've met...two non-binary AMAB people, I think? But most of the AFAB trans people I've met identify as some flavour of non-binary. Now I think about it, I don't think I've ever knowingly met another binary trans man, which is quite depressing really.
I could go into the psychology reasons of why I think that is, but that would be long.
I'm actually very interested in the possibilities as to why that is. I think most of them boil down to internalized misandry. Not saying AFAB enbies are all misandrists, but I think transmasculinity being on more of a spectrum may be because of "man bad" mentality that many develop due to their trauma. I see a lot of "transmascs are just comfortable in their masculinity," but there's definitely individuals in this community that shame others for not holding onto femininity?Or - hear me out here - some people are non-binary. I like how they kind of came at it from both sides in a predictable way though.This is just what I've put it down to but I genuinely think it's the reason- it's an escape from being a women. They can be "not a women" whilst still enjoying femininity to the extent they want but ignore the uncomfortable things that come with being a women, imo. And then vice versa, they can be masculine, without other women shaming them for being masculine. These stereotypes, expected behaviour from women, and behaviour towards them, isn?t as prevalent in men so you don?t find the problem on that side.
"Why are so many women bisexual? I think it's because they have internalised lesbophobia"
"No they are actually straight."
I don't find I relate to most non-binary people though either because it's such a vague/large umbrella.
I really appreciate the tone of the response to this 'no there's no equivalent animosity. Trans women are just based/mature this way':
As far as I'm aware, r/MTF welcomes all trans women and transfeminine people and there are no major subs that are exclusive to binary trans women.No, there's no equivalent animosity between binary and non-binary trans women. It might be down to the users of that sub being older on average.That's interesting, do you have any theories as to why there?s less animosity? I mean age can?t really be the only factor can it?Age and maturity is definitely a big one. There are just fewer petty squabbles about this kind of thing. I also think a contributing factor is that there's less social recognition of non-binary transfeminine people, so they're used to being lumped in and less likely to have significantly different experiences from binary trans women.Agreed, also just... I've never seen a demigirl/transfem try to speak over trans women, or call trans women transphobic for being feminine & having no desire to be masculine. There isn't as much of this weird animosity towards a group they wish to belong to. Not at all that it doesn't happen, it just seems less prevalent. I dunno, my transfem/women experience is largely irl & a very VERY brief time in shared trans spaces on reddit. Won't speak for their experiences, just haven't seen it as much.[BEEP] trans people are GNC? Imagine that. But I think this is actually an incredibly niche group from what I've seen even among [BEEP] trans women online anyway especially ones who think it's better to be butch.I definitely see both those things happen but for the latter, it's weirdly more of a straight/WLW divide. For some reason, a lot of WLW trans women exude a "dating men is bad" pressure and act like it's better to be GNC/butch.
In general, I agree with you though. Plus, everyone's got their internalized something or other
As for why I think it's because a lot of afab non-binary people are also men but are always lumped with women. It's also because everyone headcannons genderfluid amab people as trans women anyway like some of f1nn5ter's audience even when he's said this (they'll never be satisfied until he comes out as a woman and so he might one day but clearly not under the best of circumstances regardless):
There's no way I'm non-binary so I'm a man or a woman and I was honestly trying to figure out which fucking one I figured if you're on hrt and you get the effects of hrt and you like it you aren't cis. If a cis guy went through the effects of feminising hrt like I have they would be fucking appalled. The loss of muscle mass/strength, hair/skin smoothing out having a bit of breast growth. That would be terrifying for any cis guy in the same way you give testosterone to a cis woman they'd be fucking terrified. So I was trying to figure something out with that and I did and I never reached the point where I was like 'oh I consider myself a woman.' I never felt like that. I was just in this weird little inbetween of like damn. I'm genderfluid but I didn't know that yet. But yeah it was really odd and I was just waiting for that and it never came and I was just waiting for ages.For pronouns I was just kind of stuck with this thing damn dude I'm kinda still he/him I don't know if I should make this video cause I don't feel like a woman. I don't really know. After a lot of nights spent with Ashley. [...] We had a few I'd say a couple of weeks near the start of our relationship where she was calling me like she/her in private and like my girlfriend or something like that and I didn't like it. I was not into it. I actively didn't like it. and that was why I went OK I'm not a woman. Have you considered they/them sure but they/them has always sat in like a neutral in my mind. I do like he/him there's nothing that feels bad or wrong about he/him but there was something that felt wrong about she/her but it never felt bad it just felt wrong.My pronouns are whatever the [BEEP] I don't care. I do have I guess a bit of a preference for he/him just because it's easier but I do think that's gonna change over time. Not to be specific with something else but just to lose the preference.
"I like my voice"
People were complaining about that before lol in his coming out video but I think maybe some were confused:
You have a really deep voice for a girl no offenseI like his voice too though. The combination is kind of goals. I mean I already wear similar kind of casual unisex clothing (he dresses much more femininely sometimes though,) also don't wear makeup but I also have similarly long hair atm. Not because of him because of him + the challenge to grow waist length hair which at the current growth rate I might give up on. After that I planned to cut it:Looks like a cute girl.
Sounds like a middle-aged garbage truck driver stereotype.
The internet is a place.
My brother said multiple times I remind him of a grunge musician but I think he was just being nice.
I have soft facial features too like him. Think he's tall though? Feel like that came up. I'm ridiculously short. Even by female standards. I'm 5'2." Have you considered it's partly that I'm lazy and also can't change my bone structure anyway? But I would have long hair regardless.
This also extends the answer to the question a lot of afab non-binary people's gender is closer to wanting to be a femboy or androgynous guy essentially and/or it's a low effort aesthetic. You see the conundrum:
(but again I wouldn't want to be super jacked anyway.)
and I've seen them commenting on f1nns videos (before he came out as genderfluid even,) and a bunch generally view people like that as goals.
No I'm bigender. It's a huge pain because of how gender tribalism works for 99.999999% of people.I think those using contradictory terms like "nonbinary man" may be in denial of being binary or aren't ready to fully embrace being seen as a man in society.
They don't get to live their lives as though they're cis women they have to live their lives as cis women. In a varying number of contexts.I think this is definitely part of it. It's also true that the social/material consequences of being a non-binary amab are greater, and closer to the social/material consequences of being a trans woman.
Non-binary afabs who don't do HRT (which, ime, is most of them), basically just get to live their lives as if they were cis women, even if they've had top surgery, use they/them pronouns, etc.
Non-binary amabs, whether they do medical stuff or not, are much more likely to be targeted by transphobes, and have their access to jobs/housing/health-care, etc. limited in the same way that many trans women do.
I also like how we have to emphasise proximity to being a trans man instead of 'theyfab' too when people are killed. Trigger warning for discussion of violence:
His mum (or step mum? Can't remember,) said he didn't see himself as male or female but 'right down the middle.' But since parents are often transphobic that's of course open to dispute and nobody else was apparently asked or specified clearly other than talking about pronouns. Apparently he used he/they pronouns.The reason that Nex Benedict got misgendered and misidentified so freely as simply a they/them non-binary kid, erasing his trans masculinity, is because cis society often understands a non-binary identity as a preservative permissive state to be grown out of, similar to a tomboy.
This is a really important point in general actually.ive also seen people try to erase his nonbinary ness and call him a "man" which is a strong word we dont know if he was comfortable with
i would hate for ppl to call me a woman after i was killed for being queer. This is something im mostly seeing with binary trans men idk why they aren't just saying trans masc but they are oddly excited abt trying to claim him as a binary trans man. Even seen ppl claim his family wasn?t suppotive of transition which is why he used they/them sometimes which SO wild to make such assumptions abt a dead kid?s family you know nothing about
We have to define who the real men are all the time even when not cisgender and then dismiss everyone else's problems as non existent.Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it unconfirmed if he was trans masc? Non-binary people can use he/him and they them pronouns and not identify as trans masc.
Is the distinction relevant to why the fight happened? No. I strongly doubt it is.
Back to the subreddit of MEN:im not sure but it very well could be true that they didn't identify as transmasc, i did hear they were still figuring themselves out. Using he/him doesn't mean transmasc you're right. It's another layer of the problem where i feel like people are trying to "claim" nex as one of their own specific identity but it kinda feels like a fetishization of hate crimes on [BEEP] people. People are projecting so hard on to a murdered teenager and It feels very icky and disrespectful to me
If someone called me a transmasc I'd lose my shit.
I'm not realigning my life to be called "transmasc" bullshit.This 'communtiy' is great. It's definitely normal to have to obsess over whether or not he was non-binary, trans masc, or a trans man when everyone uses labels in different ways, some people lump trans masc and non-binary together and some people lump all of these things together and when I'm sure he was bullied by girls for being GNC and afab.As said before me, there are spaces where NB trans mascs are more than welcome. And as said before, medical stuff is just medical stuff. But sometimes I just wanna chat to guys about guy stuff.
The only person who bothered to point this out I think lol.I think some people are men and something else as well, but they are men? know what I mean? [BEEP] experiences abs identities are inherently contradictory
I mean if you're having conversations about non-binary people obviously people will end up on your subreddit via Google etc. Like I did initially...tbf it's not just non binary people that disagree with certain posts and call out certain "opinions" on non binary folks. i'm a man and i always stick up for non binary folks getting unwarranted hatred 🤷*♂️
And there are several from the last several months (including one where someone is like 'this is how I made peace with non-binary people existing' then gives examples of how they're supposed to be different from 'transsexuals' only it doesn't work and their definition doesn't apply in every case):
^ tbf that thread was locked so even the mods are apparently annoyed:Why do people call themselves ftm if they?re not binary trans men?
This isn't a debate sub, and there's been more than enough of this sort of conversation on the sub of late. This is a sub for binary trans men, not for constant debate about the validity of non-binary people.Why are so many non-binary FTM straight up misandrists?^ this trash was upvoted 120 times.You're right, and it veers into full on transphobia a lot. The eye roll at the powerlifting - that's transphobia.
Just don't tell them you're trans and see how they suddenly respect and look up to you- because they never actually got over their internalized misogyny or transphobia either. They'll also probably fall over themselves to have sex with you.
I mean, we all know how they are.
How who are? Afab Non-binary people? Oh you think I have sex with people as a general rule?
😂
^ I kind of need a giant version of that emoji.
"That's what's so illogical about being a smurf."
I don't know why bisexual [BEEP] and non-binary are lumped together as the same percentage below (unless that was a weird coincidence,) but suffice to say I don't think being trans is a problem for dating non-binary people. At least a lot less of a problem than with any other group:
Then again maybe they're all into trans women. I know I've found more trans women attractive than trans men.A 2019 study that asked 958 participants which gender identities they would be interested in dating found that 96.7% of heterosexual men, 98.2% of heterosexual women, 88.5% of gay men, 71.2% of lesbian women, and 48.3% of bisexual, queer, and non-binary participants reported that they would not be interested in dating a transgender person, and the remainder would be interested.[8]
Also this is probably why they talk about how masculinity isn't attractive ftr.
You're really oblivious aren't you lol?IMO at the very least regarding the case we are talking about, I don't think its actual misandry as they don't disrespect us because we are men, it's because they are transphobic and misogynistic - they are disrespecting us because we are trans and they are transphobic. They don't treat cis men the same way because they'd be laughed out of the room and because they are in fact fine with this stuff in cis men.
Gymbros 'alpha male' types are unattractive to me whether your're cis or trans. These days I don't even find short hair attractive on anyone (it can look cool aesthetically on some people but I don't find it attractive.) I also bet everyone eye rolling at trans guys powerlifting do the same thing to cis men. I will bet money in fact because I know this attitude is prevalant in certain circles. As for myself I spend more time pissed off at Andrew Tate types who are cis frankly. You're basically a novelty as you say.
Even this cis guy who I found on twitter who I noticed had tweets that were like pro-masculinity did a complete 180 when considering his attraction to men (he's mostly into women naturally):
we failed all males when we started saying things like
a) masculinity doesn't exist
b) girls don't care if you're masculine
c) you don't need "power" -- in fact, it's bad if you have it
all liesAnd then just putting it under spoiler tags but the absolute contradiction so no it's not just directed at trans men and cis men do this sort of thing too:i don't think zoomers understand how much your average millennial girl FUCKING HATED men, or maybe more accurately, "masculinity", or "patriarchy". mentioning that a man should act "masculine" would meet you with the explosive anger of tons of overweight high waist pants spoiled brats
Spoiler:"men who focus on grooming and fashion are not masculine enough. go rip apart a bear with your hands"
you fail to consider one thing
i enjoy looking good lolbig thick dicks are gorgeous
but only if they're attached to feminine men
imagine thinking overly masculine men are attractive
gross! lol!!!
You cannot make this [BEEP] up lol. And that wasn't the only tweet of this type.
Spoiler:i think one of the reasons why i never really liked guys (sexually) was because of how fucking disgusting most american males are
these mofos don't take care of themselves at all
but you go to asia and there are more pretty looking men
i don't like raw masculinity. tough guy strong man type
i like beautiful and/or kinda feminine men i guess
but idk i still haven't really done anything going in that direction IRL. i could try it and i'd be like nope!
I'm probably into more masculine guys than he is but still there's a line for me. I was also very into Asian guys for a while (as he brings up.)
You see I don't want to be this person but you say this shit.
Lol.Why is it impossible to have a binary trans male space that doesn't become "Every trans man but me is really a woman"
No I'm leaving that sub now that was the perfect end note.
The impulse is pure
Sometimes our circuits get shorted
By external interference
Signals get crossed
And the balance distorted
By internal incoherence
A tired mind become a shape-shifter
Everybody need a mood lifter
Everybody need reverse polarity
Everybody got mixed feelings
About the function and the form
Everybody got to deviate
From the norm
(still skimreading book.)
I quoted part of this quote below in my previous post but not all of it but the part I didn't quote is interesting. I don't think the bolded part below is really true. It seems insane to think that 'male mothers' are really accepted especially right now given the backlash towards trans women who are mothers. But I believe this general theory below drives a lot of resentment that some subset of terfs feel. Eg: 'If I'm not allowed to be masculine/male why should trans women get to be feminine/female?'
Of course at this point that group aren't really the loudest group of transphobes. It's mostly conservatives, men (in general statistically men as a group are more likely to be transphobic and they have a variety of ideological backgrounds,) and heterosexual women with a history of trauma, or women with other unpleasant/unstable personality traits (like Posie Parker.) People who don't want femininity to be erased etc.To recognize how completely we have ignored female masculinity as a culture, consider the following questions: Why is there no word for the opposite of "emasculation"? Why is there no parallel concept to "effeminacy"? (In fact, these two words mean exactly the same thing!) Why shouldn't a woman get in touch with her masculinity? Why does female masculinity remain so much a stigma that many women, even lesbians, will do almost anything to avoid the label "butch"? Why are we comfortable thinking about men as mothers, but we never consider women as fathers? Gender, it seems, is reversible only in one direction, and this must surely have to do with the immense social power that accumulates around masculinity. Masculinity, one must conclude, has been reserved for people with male bodies and has been actively denied to people with female bodies. And this is not to say that all things being equal, all female-bodied people would desire masculinity, only that the protection of masculinity from women bears examination.
I mean I think a bunch of lesbian feminists are actually pretty fed up with the gender traditionalists:
I haven't watched the video discussion below but that's what the above clip is taken from:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hg7I-kmTyE
She was talking about the issues between subsets of gender critical groups for years though:
I don't think the answer to that is to just gatekeep womanhood and femininity from amab people though. Especially all the chauvinism about technological development like artificial wombs. I'm trying to decide whether the answer is to just be more assertive and forceful and at the same time acknowledge that most people aren't masculine so that group is going to be smaller in general - more people are going to be feminine or androgynous or... As most progressives have sort of decided - even the men - just abandon masculinity as an ideal entirely and do something androgynous instead. (I'm reinventing the wheel here though I know lol.) Because otherwise:
Something like that eventually happens. Especially in a hyper competitive individualistic culture.Why is it impossible to have a binary trans male space that doesn't become "Every trans man but me is really a woman"
Realistically people are going to have varying personality and aesthetic preferences though. So eventually you are going to have to find a way to integrate groups. I think it's very difficult for androgynous and masculine people to co-exist. I think it's easier for masculine and androgynous people to co-exist with feminine people - although some androgynous people have a difficult time co-existing with feminine people (moreso feminine women.) Which explains a significant chunk of feminism but also some weird off shoots of politics that isn't easily cateogrised as right or left.
Like that couple I talked about who are pronatalist. They're androgynous which is why people were joking in their comment section that they're like a lesbian couple (and I pointed out this irony in their image vs Simone's ideal of living in gay male world in my previous post.) You can tell Simone isn't into hypermasculinity (though the example she uses of raiding warlords is unsustainable/unreasonable anyway to be fair,) also reveals issues with feminine women. I mean she's living a very traditional life but she's not that feminine in personality and she's autistic. People sometimes confuse the two.
This tweet doesn't seem to be the answer either:
Masculinity is under assault, but so is femininity; our current order is much more of an androgynarchy than it is a matriarchy.Girls are happy when they're allowed to be girls and are worshiped for it. Girls are sad when they're pushed to become inferior imitations of boys. It's not rocket science. Reject patriarchy, reject androgyny, embrace femininity, and women will be happier than ever.They belittle both masculinity and femininity; just look at how they treat girly girls. The end goal here is not really to transform women into men so much as it is to transform both sexes into androgynous worker drones.I think his take on this might be 'these things should be considered masculine.' I'm sure he tweeted something like that like (I'm paraphrasing becasue I don't fully remember and cba searching for ages to find it.) 'Don't fall into the trap of thinking certain things aren't masculinity.' But this ignores why certain aesthetics, personality traits evolved to be seen as androgynous in the first place and the competition that goes on between those groups because they don't overlap 100% but then he contradicts himself anyway because he makes distinctions. I think his view of androgyny as being like an aesthetic designed to promote 'workerdrones' is very ugly and essentially right wing propaganda. But I wrote a bunch of stuff about this before...If we actually were a feminine matriarchy we'd be ten times better off than we are today; instead we're something much worse than either masculinity or femininity, patriarchy or matriarchy: we're something that's not any variety of human at all.
It's particularly gross I think when you look at personality research and understand how androgynous personalities are often associated with being 'high openness' and creative. That's why so many bisexual and non-binary people display this personality type as I talked about in some recent posts:
https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/3gqye
https://gwern.net/doc/psychology/per...2020-allen.pdfWhen looking at the prominent personality traits of this group, Johansson et al. (2022) found that nonbinary participants personalities were dominated by higher degrees of neuroticism and openness, closely followed by agreeableness. The study thereby concluded that non-binary participants had a unique personality composition that distinguished them from those who identified as men and women. This, together with the insufficient research in the area, highlights the relevance of including more than two genders in future research.
Because our culture tries to crush creativity I think and then also tries to exploit it.Bisexual men reported higher levels of openness and neuroticism than heterosexual men, and lower levels of conscientiousness than homosexual men. The data also show that homosexual women reported higher levels of openness, and lower levels of extraversion and agreeableness, than heterosexual women. Bisexual women reported higher levels of neuroticism and openness, and lower levels of conscientiousness, than heterosexual women, and higher levels of extraversion and lower levels of conscientiousness than homosexual women.
I've been kind of fixated with this concept too when I look at my past writing in my early 20s and teen years. With the idea of tyrannical dictators stealing people's 'magic' and 'creativity' stealing their dreams actually in one story I wrote. Literally stealing people's dreams lol. They couldn't dream anymore (I dream rarely these days so I seem to have cursed myself once again.) But also the thing about that androgynous spirit that I quoted in a previous post - who was being used for war against his will. I don't know that any of this was on my mind when I was writing it. I don't remember what I was thinking about at the time now really and obviously a lot of it was inspired by other stuff I was reading etc. It's just when I look back I can frame it that way because of my current thoughts lol.
There's also other material that I'm not going to quote. The fight between androgyny and masculinity is a theme of some of my writing as a teenager as well I noticed and I tended to use magic as a symbolic representation for androgyny whereas masculinity was represented more by traditional physical strength and fighting abilities. And then pure femininity appeared less honestly lol. But I'd have to read back through stuff and pay attention to that some time.
And at any rate the person who wrote those tweets is the guy I talked about who has a female painting avatar. He takes ballet classes is overly focussed on his appearence. Thinks this is an ideal aesthetic:
Really anything before plainness and the business suit totally took over. Bright colors, ruffles, capes, poofy sleeves, gentleman's canes, long hair, medieval robes, bring it on! Make Men's Fashion Great Again!
As I said: 'so true king.'The masculine counterpart to a "cat lady" would have to be a "cat lord"...which somehow sounds a hundred times cooler. Not that it *is* a hundred times cooler, mind you; some of the best girls adore cats, like this darling ballerina painted by Pierre Carrier-Belleuse.
The sudden prevalence of short hair in the era since WWI demonstrates that we live in a post-apocalyptic society. In ancient Germany long hair was for freemen, short hair was for slaves; makes you think, doesn't it?He's not a fan of female masculinity boo:Long hair is feminine; same principle could also extend to long lashes. Long lashes also accentuate the always-cute batting of eyelashes, they draw attention to the eyes, and they make the eyes look bigger. They also *really* help with that half-lidded sleepy sexy expression.
I actually thought he'd like this YouTuber below (because she's very feminine and also has time traveller qualities.) I used to watch her YT channel sometimes. Not because I'm attracted to her per se (yes there's the red hair again......) But because I'm mysteriously drawn to femininity sometimes. Actually that's why I like reading some of his writing as well lol. Because of my abstract attraction to femininity though I wanted more of it to be self directed at himself but only a small amount was.The best lesbians have long hair, so no, I don't.If you see a woman with short hair, do you assume she's a lesbian?
This is a pretty good illustration of what androgynous feminists will do with feminine women who try to enter their spaces as I was saying before.
This logic actually makes a lot of sense to me. This isn't how most people operate but a certain percentage of people kind of want to be what they're attracted to and then also look for people similar to themselves. It's more common for [BEEP] people to talk about this, but it exists for some straight people too.
"I feel like I'm really super super 100% female all of the time to the extent that obviously I'm a lesbian and I always feel like others must be able to tell. For a long time when I was a kid I just assumed that I was
a lesbian because I look like a lesbian because I'm 100% feminine all of the time. That's not how lesbians work though."
She had some issues with feminists because of her presentation as well.
"Do you ever get people criticising your style?""Uh yes my mother largely.""Really?"I don't think she seems like him, she seems like a time traveller a bit because she acts a bit like how I imagine someone from the 1940s might act. That's not just the clothing though."She says I dress like Grayson Perry. [eccentric English cross dresser]But then I do also have- people tend to assume a lot of things about me from the way I look. I had a lot of trouble in university
especially with things like LGBT groups."
She said she gets older guys coming up to her sometimes apparently saying things like she reminds them of their wife who died etc.
"Because they assume you're straight?""Yes they assume I'm straight.""Even though it should be so obvious that you're a lesbian because everything about you is female.""I got told off one time I wanted to join the feminist club and then a girl was like. *disgusted expression* and she just gave me this massive talking down about how I dress for men and it's awful. The last group of person I'm dressing for is men."
She had a video where she wears princess dresses for a week:
I was reading his webpage about his science fiction concepts with masculine men and feminine women and thought yes and where are you going to be in this futuristic black/white world?
So many people on twitter just would assume he's female and weirdly he never corrects them. At first I thought he was a conservative woman lol but then realised.It also serves I think to illustrate something sorely lacking even in most "optimistic" science fiction, even in most bright romantic realist science fiction: that in the spacefaring future men can be men and women can be women, that what humanity should aspire toward is a future where girls can fully express their femininity and be adored for it by everyone around them. You don't have to become some sort of androgyne to be a good citizen of the spacefaring universe.
He brought up women being worshipped for femininity a lot. I guess he likes doing that to women so wanted to normalise it, but also maybe wanted to be worshipped himself a bit (the narcissism, so a projection.)
He doesn't fit into his own fantasy lol. If he did, I wouldn't have been remotely drawn to investigating his account. And there's lots of contradictory people like this floating around online.
Oh and I get that too. Not fitting into your own fantasies. Because of how my brain works I've found it very hard to contemplate how I could have a relationship of any kind with anyone and where I fit in. Because my sexuality is so voyeuristic as well. I didn't even imagine myself in any kind of sexual fantasies until at some point in my 20s and well still don't often.
This was my reaction before (I made a post about some things he said that got deleted lol):
(It's unfortunate that he's so narcissistic and looks down on others lol as I said before he reminds me of anime characters I found attractive as a teenager because of how he writes/emotes)🙂I've always liked my hair; it's so wavy and shiny, yet so brunette, just like my biggest crush from history Emma, Lady Hamilton, who had the best hair ever. All my other historical-girl crushes and even my present-day crushes have that same sort of hair, the same kind I have as an adult.
That's kind of adorable.I have so many stuffies and plushies at home, and they're as lonesome as I am;
I sort of want to boop his nose.
There were many more anecdotes about plushies and plushies popping up in his writing. Also most of his writing is froma female pov or about female characters it seems and there was one character with a giant mushroom plushie lol.
I wrote this:*I'm* basically a rich introverted internet nerd and my life was ruined in 2020 and has never been the same since. Something in my very soul broke and will probably never be mended together again. So I don't really get this whole idea that introverts and rich people did so well.
Ayame from the Fruits Basket manga (I never watched the anime,) was narcissistic too from what I remember. It was a character trait that he would annoy the people around him with his grandiose sense of self and not caring about others around him. Probably a lot more extroverted than this guy is though. There was another character Ritsu who was a male cross dresser very anxious and always apologising and kind of envied Ayame's self confidence. That was kind of the contast between those particular characters. Huge cast of characters with very different personalities and a lot of incest actually... So given it was a norm in the world I didn't think much about reading fanfiction about various characters as a teen lol. Kyo/Yuki, Ayame/Ritsu, Ayame/Hatori. Think those were the main ones I read at the time off the top of my head. Hatori was another character that was one of the few people he respected and could get him to stop being annoying basically lol.
THEY GET IT.Howl is so dramatic in this scene. I love it.
That actually doesn't help explain why though... It's not supposed to be attractive. So why is it?
I fell down a weird rabbit hole trying to find this scene on YT just now:I'm such a big coward, all I do is hide. All of this magic is to keep everybody away. I can't stand how scared I am.
Howl also has a bunch of other traits in common with this guy.Howl boyfriend asmr, talking and sleeping with you, Howls Moving Castle, breathing, rain, calm music
As I joked before all of this has basically led me to developing quite bad taste in men lol... I mean it would be fine if he didn't look down on others and he's a bit more masculine oriented I think than my ideal (as in I think he's defensive about it,) also very competitive/focussed on wealth etc. Lol he actually said this once:
It's not the ambition that's a turn off exactly and I also relate to wanting to not work for others and I don't. It's just I don't want to quote even more lol he cares a lot about being in the top 1% and such. He dropped out of school at a young age and then was homeschooled and later than average got a degree not because he wanted to or it was in a subject he was interested in but to avoid dealing with the status resentment he had about not having a degree. Also his desire for a child by surrogate (he wants a partner but he's very picky and a virgin at 30 years old,) that he wants to treat as a dress up doll and also has very high and specific expectations for despite it being a seperate person:It?s also hit me recently that it's telling that the only person I know who has a life that I?d want to emulate and could realistically attain in the near future is a girlboss type who owns a successful event-venue-cum-dance-studio and has literally never worked as someone else's employee.
Why a daughter, specifically? I like boys, and frankly would do great with them, but a major motivation for me to even have a baby is to have someone to play dress-up with; so often my mind wanders to hairstyles, makeup, and clothing, daydreaming of what the young women I know and their little daughters should do with themselves in the realm of feminine aesthetics before coming back down to earth, where I have no feminine companion to do that with. So why not make one?I'll be sure to doll up my daughter to be as pretty as possible, and have frequent professionally-done photoshoots all the time. Adorable babies and fashionable children need to have those memories, to luxuriate in the senses of youth, to come into womanhood having been on the right track from the ground-up.Yep.Which suggests to me that I could even get my daughter into modeling from an early age. It sounds like some narcissistic fantasy world,
It's all of this kind of stuff.She might have a chance. I feel like I look way too much like a northern Italian peasant, but the only person of any prominence I bear even a vague resemblance to is Timothee Chalamet, and other people say I look like I know a lot about investments; all born-rich qualities. 🤔I so want my future daughter to have that born-rich energy. I was born into a family that meant nothing and were workers and peasants, and let me tell you: it sucks. I wouldn't wish that on any child of mine.
Damn I didn't want to quote a bunch of stuff about him again. Oh well. Some of it fits in with the antagonistic dynamic I'm talking about in this post.
And also obviously I'm not his ideal. Though I do have very long hair atm. He also kept posting about his issues with American women and how he gets on better with European woman. Then posted some photos of ideal women and said he noticed they weren't American but French and English. The English one I figured out before he even said anything (probably because I live here I'm quite good at guessing lol.) But it's because he spends all his time looking at French and English paintings of women.
He posted about hoping to find his 'soul mate' essentially through twitter lol which he believed was definitely possible (he's really optimistic and stuff and has an elevated sense of his own abilities etc it seems. That's the impression I got,) because he tweets so much (which is why I think I stumbled on his tweets over and over in the first place.) But all he seems to have gotten is me looking through his tweets and website hahahaha. Ah that's so terrible/funny. 😂 But yeah I can't go into a full on essay like I did before about the idealisation I have for certain 'archetypes' (really starting to bug me. Using that word too much it's like liminal,) and not wanting to let go of ideals. (He also has the same issue with his idealisation of feminine ideals in women. Though saying that I was surprised to hear him describe Billie Eilish as one of his favourite people in the world. Totally didn't match any of his other fantasies.)
But anyway Halberstam has published more books since that book and it was published in 1998 so it's dated anyway now lol. I think there are a bunch of trans women who took issue with his writing and the writing of similar women. I remember from twitter ages ago but never bothered to read anything he wrote. I'm actually in general not super into academic [BEEP] theory as such. I'm also more into incredibly niche groups and studies about them etc. (Like the nisu subculture and the similar people who are currently posting on tumblr etc but ignored by academia seemingly? Lol)
My one funny Jack Halberstam story is that right before he published Gaga Feminism, Lady Gaga ruined his whole project by releasing "Born This Way" so that at all his book interviews he had to be like no, of course we as enlightened [BEEP] theorists do not believe thatCan we have a discussion about how a supermajority of academic positions in trans studies and academic work on trans people by trans people is by transmasculine people??? Or is this just meI was never really part of it because I wasn't exclusively gynephilic and didn't 'grow up' in that culture lol (online because I'm a younger millenial.) I had to discover this myself online (again) etc much later. It continues to persist because we don't have community (that's why I ended up pushed in that direction + online algorithms.) It's why I find 'lesbians are being erased' to be a completly nonsensical statement. Bisexual women don't have a community - they latch onto lesbian culture. Trans men don't have a community - they latch onto lesbian culture. Non-binary people don't have a culture - they latch onto lesbian culture. Sometimes various groups latch onto transfemme or feminine gay cultures as they also have a couple of distinct cultures. Drag queen culture obviously and the gamer thing. The latter is actually a culture I was in I guess but by accident lol. There are plenty of cis men in it too anyway. And also whatever The Sims is (vaguely [BEEP] at this point, it wasn't exactly when I was younger. Just a nerdy femme + often alternative hobby. Lots of neurodivergent women who were into goth music etc.)It is because transmasculine people and cis [BEEP] women had a mutually "beneficial" relationship for a long time -- transmascs lent legitimacy whole [BEEP] women lent community. I put "beneficial" in quotes because it is becoming clear that this relationship
Is breaking down and transmascs now are clearly getting the raw end of the deal, so I expect this to change soon
I was very into Green Day. The lead singer was bisexual. People wrote slash fanfiction. Slash fanfiction and m/m stuff overlaps a lot with [BEEP] transmasculinity but we're not allowed to talk about that because 'it's cringe' and 'fetishishing.' So that's another thing.
I liked MCR's first two albums a lot. Emo was labelled as 'gay' or 'bisexual.' The bands weren't exactly going for that (there wasn't even a universal image and music style really among the bands labelled as emo and the label had been used as far back as the 80s I think to describe different stuff,) but that just ended up happening. Dan Howell talked about how he was in that community too in his coming out video. It attracted a pretty strong [BEEP] fanbase somehow. People on reddit etc complain about this today and the '[BEEP] reading of the band' and want people to shut up without realising that there were actual anti-emo riots in some countries lol in the 2000s. It sounds ridiculous but it's true and this all overlaps with the animosity towards goth and alternative people. Like this insantiy:
A girl was killed in my country for being alternative. So people do take it pretty seriously in their fanbase:
Arguably, the vilification of the genre put fans at risk. In 2007, hard rock and MCR fan Sophie Lancaster was beaten to death by a mob of strangers in Bacup, Lancashire, targeted, police said, because she was dressed in a gothic style. The following year, violence against emo fans spilled over into Mexico, where three teenagers were severely beaten in Queretaro, north of Mexico City. Speaking to NPR, journalist Ioan Grillo attributed the conflict to class differences and homophobia. "When you saw the marches, a lot of people were shouting very clearly the Mexican words or insults people use for gay," Grillo said.More generally emo culture is not seen as queer. In the same way Tilda Swinton isn't seen as queer. And a gay trans guy isn't [BEEP] and so on. Depending on your lens. But you still get called a lesbian by confused people irl.Riot police have taken to the streets of several cities in Mexico to ? defend emo kids? A series of attacks on dyed-hair, eye-makeup-wearing emo kids began in early March when several hundred people went on an emo-beating rampage in Queretaro, a town of 1.5 million about 160 miles north of Mexico City.
[...]
First, by some accounts, the emo subculture is identified with homosexuality in Mexico. As Mexico City youth worker Victor Mendoza told Time.com: "At the core of this is the homophobic issue. The other arguments are just window dressing for that."
Although homosexual and bisexual people were drawn to the emo subculture it's seen as being like slightly divergent from heteronormative cutlture but not enough to be classified as [BEEP] (except by all the people who do.) I read a paper on the emo subculture that basically said that and also considered Charlie from the Perks of Being a Wallflower as being 'emo' so he was straight but he hangs out with a gay guy (like me in highschool at one point lol,) and all these kids who are into doing shadow casts of - almost said repo lol no that was my generation - shadow casts of The Rocky Horror Picture Show. I always wanted to play Graverobber lol. Even though I would have been a really poor fit. But there was nothing like that happening in my country at the time I got into Repo.
I can't link the song I think because some parts are a bit 'bloody' so I'll just link this lol (I don't know what the audio is in the begining they've combined a song from Repo with some anime thing I think?) I'm too old to know lol.
Just quoting that line all the time lol.
This video is fun though 'I remember what it was like to be a teenager' lol... (And also bringing down Western civilisation I assume or something.) Oh man I saw a bunch of conservatives massively overreacting to some teen or young adult's tiktok where they just look pretty neutral (style wise,) and then they push a pony (like a My Little Pony doll,) into the camera and then their appearence changes to be colourful etc and the backlash was amazing. It really showed me how dramatic personality differences are between people that they just responded with instant hatred and fear to that. I don't think when I was a teenager I really realised the distance between people. I knew people hated other people for being weird but I didn't realise I think until you see like an entire twitter thread of conservatives reacting to 'one small thing.' It hits different basically and it must be hard being a teenager now.
And I suppose the stereotypical emo experience of like being in that subculture and straight and at one point he kisses his gay friend to 'cheer him up' which is a weird thing to do lol. I shipped them together when I was 17 and into that book though. But yeah I think that's why the author brought up that book because of the emo thing at the time of mostly straight boys making out being some kind of stereotype. And then they were 'fake gays.' But also potentially gay (feminine really,) at the same time as you can see from the riots.
And I've said before it's such a tiny thing to freak out about. Like you compare it to the 70s or 80s. Bands like MCR weren't non-conforming at all. I guess just cause they had a lot of female fans and were singing about emotions. That was all it took. But the music of MCR in particular was very aggressive.
There's a trans guy I follow on YT who didn't medically transistion in the UK (talked about him a bunch) who was into the goth culture and like the trans male author Billy Martin (pen name Poppy Z Brite.) Who I didn't read but I was also aware of him back in the day. Anne Rice as well obviously - similar writer. So all of this is technically culture/community - and a very diffrent culture from butch lesbian culture or lesbian culture more broadly I would say. Although there's clearly overlap now:
And I think people on 'both sides' were into skateboarding and stuff like that lol. Some kind of cultural universal really if you grew up in the early 2000s.
Anyway the second person responding to the trans woman then got into a debate with her on twitter about this which describes the schism between different subsets of trans people pretty well actually:
This is common and something a lot of people don't consider.On the contrary, it seems to me this loose dynamic (trans men telling cis women about trans women) is just expanding or morphing, primarily through ambiguities like genderqueerness and nonbinaryness (which is why so many of us invented this "tma"/"tme" language to begin with).
This conversation has generally been kind of difficult for me because in my experience a relatively little amount of this material is actually written by insistent trans men (Jamison Greene types) and much more of it is written by aha-gotcha trans men (Jack Halberstam types).Right, I think as transmascs who do not want to be identical to cis men realize they do not have to be women, there will be less of this.Hard disagree: to me, the vector through which their telling occurs seems to be predicated on them viewing themselves distinct from cis women... just, distinct in a particular way that loans power to their arbitration.
Not that this stops cis ppl from doing trans theory anyway.I don?t know, then. I'm just listening to transmascs who seem to have suddenly discovered that we have our own problems that no one is paying attention to. If they're not harping on that then they're doing us a disservice
I cannot totally discount the role of transmasculine shame though
Not entirely unrelated but I've met guys who feel like they aren't allowed to write about men with feelings/problems so they write about women and I think trans women are imprinted on a lot of transmascs as baby transes because they are usually the first trans people they meet
No I think it's completely accurate lol.Though this is probably bonkers psychoanalysis
Like I just wonder how much of the reason of transmascs in there is "I started trying to do women's studies to fix myself but couldn't"I'm even more radical then that. I think someone can be a man and a woman at the same time.Too lazy to find quotes but ask a Greene type "Are you a man or a woman" he'll say "A man" and ask a Halberstam type "Are you a man or woman" he'll say like "There is little difference between myself and a trans man" or "we must interrogate the liminal space between."
(It's important to clarify here I'm not talking about nonbinary people necessarily, many of whom have a very insistent sense of their gender.)You don't leave an option for sweat profusely and try to change the subject in your typology of transmascsno thats a halberstam typeidk I still don?t like the question, as it implies you can't be a man and something else or a woman and something else, as it's not insistent enough in ones sense of gendertrans men can be a man and something else; in fact they all are by definition. If you mean like "can trans men be butches" this is literally the exact kinda borderlands junket Halberstam got tenure off ofCould not a trans man also be butch if he had multiple genders? I mean why stop at one. That doesn't mean all of them do but some might.halberstam type interrogationSo having multiple genders is just interrogation rather than a valid construction of one's identityit is when you phrase it as a rhetorical question lmaoI'm only allowed one gender, got it.You're real urgent for me to say things I am not saying. Done with this.I just think that someone can be both a man and a not woman at the same time and I don't think it has to be so confrontational, asking people their genders is a confrontation and I?ve been uncomfortable with it since long before I transitioned
I think there isn't a problem with this construction personally it's just the fact that these academic writers often write about it to the exclusion of everything else. Not sure if that's what that trans woman was generally getting at or not.
Then they sort of exclude or downplay anything that isn't lesbian as well. Trans male sexual background isn't even predominantly gynephilic at this point if you look at survey results:
Also this:Until the mid-2010s, medical textbooks commonly suggested that most transgender men were straight.[9][10] However, a 2015 survey of roughly 2000 American trans men showed more variation in sexual orientation or sexual identity among trans men. 23% identified as heterosexual or straight. The vast majority (65% ) identified their sexual orientation or sexual identity as [BEEP] (24% ), pansexual (17% ), bisexual (12% ), gay/same-gender loving (12% ), asexual (7% ), and 5% did not answer.[11] Author Henry Rubin wrote that "[i]t took the substantial efforts of Lou Sullivan, a gay FTM activist who insisted that female-to-male transgender people could be attracted to men."[8] Matt Kailey, author of Just Add Hormones: An Insider's Guide to the Transsexual Experience,[12] recounts his transition "from 40-something straight woman to the gay man he'd always known himself to be."[13] Researchers eventually acknowledged the existence of this phenomenon, and by the end of the 20th century, psychiatrist Ira Pauly wrote, "The statement that all female-to-male transgender are homosexual [Pauly means attracted to women] in their sexual preference can no longer be made."[14]
Leslie's background was working class though right? Worked in a factory at one point. I don't know what Halberstam's is (I could probably read the wikipedia page instead of just typing this lol but yeah.)not Trans Studies Quarterly falling for the Andrea Long Chu hustle... she wins again girls
Jack Halberstam writes like an 85-year-old draft dodger telling war stories
Final take: Academic butches are central authors of trans studies because they are allowed to productively engage 2nd-wave feminism with transy counters. Trans women are on the main denied even this (a fact Halberstam actively mocks), so the whole essay reads as a punching-down.
Halberstam has this overlong preface where he's like "im gonna try styling on Chu, Chu-style" (which the very existence of an overlong preface defeats) and it doesn't work because he's an academic butch
of course Leslie Feinberg already worked out the correct approach for academic butches which is to love trans women & hang out with us & maybe just kind of laugh if we say something mean & wow your arms are so wow i mean do you think you could carry my bag teehee
I liked Andrea Long Chu's article on Solanas. But it wasn't as edgy as what Nyxlandunlife did lol with the gender accelerationist blackpaper (which is also completely outside of the [BEEP] theory bubble.) 'Females' might be but I haven't read that.
They're not actually willing to engage with the most far out online manifesto type stuff and perhaps that's for the best lol. They don't integrate everything or try to have a conversation which obviously you'd want to if you actually wanted to study gender as a whole.
That's why this video is so funny lol:
She actually makes some similar claims I think to Halberstam (this is at least what he was touching on when he mentioned middle class lesbian women fetishising androgynous aesthetics.)
Femme and butch don't "belong to lesbians" you transphobic nerds. Femme and butch belong to the [BEEP] working-class. Thread.
1. Lesbian Butch/Femme
So yes: the cultural dominant mainly associates "femme" and "butch" with lesbianism. It is, in my view, the most established facet of lesbian culture. And it belongs to working-class lesbians. Classic femme: Joan Nestle. Classic butch: Leslie Feinberg.
[There are other screenshot references. Too big to embed really.][/quote]1.a: Early History
I guess the origin of "butch"/"femme" & lesbian butch/femme bar culture around 1945, but no one knows. My private analysis is that once all the men were off in foreign countries shooting each other with guns, lesbians got a lot more public about getting laid.
However, relationships which at least *look* butch/femme -- speaking curtly, a mannish woman with a womanish woman -- seem essentially universal. Granting sparsity of data, clearly they exceed class and culture and occur throughout history.
The words "butch" and "femme" arose in urban contexts. Yes, we all know Radclyffe Hall, but she classed herself as an "invert" and lacked lesbian community. Early self-designated butches and femmes were overwhelmingly poor, especially Black or Jewish, often New Yorkers.
One of the major locations where "butch/femme" language arose was the city prison system. This part is not nice history -- on surface it suggests pretty ruthless sexual hierarchy, as well as rape. But it also suggests forging love and companionship through profound trauma.
1.b: Feminist Backlash
So, (some) feminists have hated butch/femme lesbian couples since there was feminism. For instance, it's in *The Second Sex*, when de Beauvoir (herself bisexual) embracingly types lesbian butches as misogynists and lesbian femmes as abused heterosexuals.
As political lesbianism emerged, lesbianism became idealized as "eroticized equality." This concept looms large in highbrow lesbian artmaking, such as Sciamma's recent *Portrait of a Lady on Fire*. But butch/femme couplings are specifically lesbianism as *eroticized difference*.
I think this is something Contrapoints has been focussing on a bunch lately but in the context of heterosexual women as well and cites slash fanfiction and m/m erotica (which of course mostly appeals to bisexuals.) But she erases bisexuality because everyone does. It's right here though. I actually found a few weeks ago someone critiquing that Lucy Neville book due to it's limited view of gender/sexuality lol. They had some similar overlapping issues to those I had but I haven't read the book
https://pentabook.wordpress.com/2020...ic-review-ish/
I would have loved to see this extended into an examination of gender beyond the binary. I can understand why Neville restricted information on her sources to sexuality, but the neglect of gender spectrum in the analysis makes it seem, to me, a tad dated. (Probably because I'm GenZ, but still.)And here you go:* For anyone who isn't convinced that everyone in transformative fandom is queer, these censuses carried out by Archive of Our Own also support Neville?s conclusion that heterosexual women do not constitute a majority of m/m consumers:
This is a survet of the sexualities of m/m fans on AO3: https://archiveofourown.org/works/17003727.
And this AO3 survey of straight female slash fans also agrees that heterosexual women do not dominate m/m fandom https://archiveofourown.org/works/17003655.
The non-binary thing is interesting too.The largest group for both readers and creators of M/M was bi/pansexual women, followed by heterosexual women and women on the asexual spectrum.
In most cases, non-binary people were more likely than those who identified as men or women to be fans of M/M.
I think they do this for political reasons more than anything. It's more OK to critique behaviour if you use the word 'straight' lol.However, among the 10,005 respondents to the AO3 census survey, the proportion of M/M fans who consider themselves both heterosexual and female is between 25% and 36% (depending on how precisely the terms are defined). Respondents in that demographic were less likely than average to be fans of M/M. Of course, this data has its limitations, but these results are supported by many past surveys.
Evidence suggests that it is worth questioning the assumption that all or most M/M fans are heterosexual women.
If this assumption is false, continuously attributing the abundance of M/M slash to heterosexual women is misleading, and erases a large group of slash fans who ID as non-heterosexual and/or non-female.
I still haven't finished watching that Contrapoints Twilight video though lol. But I know she went into this on patreon.
Anyway that twitter thread is long so I'm not quoting all of it she then goes into trans butch/femmes:
2. Transgender Butch & Femme
Right, so, "butch" and "femme" have a very very [BEEP] lineage, in the urban working class. They are popularized gender positions specific from that milieu and have never been exclusive to lesbians or even necessarily open to all of them.
2.a. Transgender Butch
Yeah, there are trans butches. For one, the term "butch queen" was thrown around in 80s ballroom & earlier for gay men, who performed in a variety of categories; today we might call them something like genderqueer. Noun "butch" was more for masc women.
Otherwise, just as those major lesbian terms "femme" and "butch" developed with gay male & trans culture, the word "trans" itself grew with lesbian culture. Some lesbians, especially butches, felt the appellation applied. Sex identity is only one barrier of gender, after all.
The trans butch category is controversial. Insofar as they are women I am happy to be trans women with them. Storme DeLarverie was as good as trans butch; Leslie Feinberg self-declared as such; Jack Halberstam discussed it at length [...]
2.b. Transgender Femme
Trans women (especially of color) have been self-describing as femme pretty much since lesbians have, end of. They did this because they shared a common community and language. We are less on record because there were far fewer of us. Ex. 1970:
Unlike drag, ballroom distinguished pretty clearly between a "butch queen" and a "femme queen." Trans women were femme in this space. Related, "kiki," the term used for "just having fun," is both what femme/butch queens and lesbians call(ed) youngins, who "haven't decided."Too competitive about the title of 'real man' even when you're not a man masculine people do the same thing see Stone Butch Blues (quoted part of this before yesterday actually lol but that conversation/scene continues on a bit more in a very relevant way:3. Femme Solidarity
In 2000s & 10s especially there was a serious push for "femme" as a kind of shared [BEEP] subjectivity from which to develop politics. This means trans & lesbian femmes building space together as femmes. Amazing thread from Cyree here:
That thread really says it all (I still think about it like once a week) but to reiterate: "femme" has a very [BEEP] lineage. I have added that this lineage is working-class.
Occasionally other LGBT people (like me -- I was raised middle-class) use the term to self-describe if we respect because we have been gifted great meaning in it. Rarely it extends to unusual femininity: "fat femme" or "femme fatale." But the common use is working-class queer.
There's always more to think about -- butch solidarity has never been as much of a thing & it's fascinating why -- but I finished my piece. When we use language, we inherit generations of cognitive labor. Respect your [BEEP] inheritance or get out.
"We're talking about what happened to all the old butches and femmes."
"I think we're sort of underground," I said quietly. My heart was in the conversation Edna and I weren't having. "Waiting for a time when it's safer to come out."
Grant sighed bitterly. "But some of these young kids you can't even tell what they are--goddamn green hair and safety pins in their faces." We all sighed collectively.
"Grant," I shrugged, "who cares?"
"It just isn't right," Grant slapped the tabletop.
I laughed, which made her angrier. "Grant, that's what they said about us!"
"Well, that's different," Grant said with a wave of her hand
I leaned toward her. "There's a lot of things I couldn't accept when I was younger, Grant, like the fact that there's lots of different ways for butches to be." I watched her expression change. Frankie audibly
sucked in her breath. "But now I'm trying to accept people as they are."
Jan tried to change the subject. She leaned over and stroked the arm of my leather jacket. "Nice," she said.
Edna shot me an alarmed look. I fingered the soft, worn leather of Rocco's armor. "Thank you." I closed the subject. Edna exhaled in relief
"I'm sure glad I didn't do those hormones," Grant announced.
I bit down hard on the plastic bar straw in my mouth. "Why's that, Grant?" I braced myself.
"Well you're sort of stuck now, aren?t you? I mean you're not a butch or a guy. You look like a guy."
Everyone at the table stiffened, but no one answered her. I bent the straw into a circle. "Be careful, Grant," I warned her. "You?re looking at your own reflection."
Grant laughed. "I ain't like you. I didn?t do the change."
My anger was greater than the situation called for. I could taste it, bitter on my tongue. I leaned forward. Everyone held their breath. My voice was low and menacing. "How far are you willing to go, Grant? How much of yourself are you willing to give up in order to distance yourself from me?"
Grant?s face betrayed her. She had felt my power for a moment and it aroused her. I knew it had, I could see it in her eyes. I knew a secret about Grant's desire and I wanted to wield it like a weapon. I wanted butchness to be quantity, not a quality, so I could out-butch her.
Grant stirred her drink with her finger. Her face flushed. Edna and Jan stared at their laps. I could feel Frankie silently pleading with my to let Grant of
Frankie silently pleading with me to let Grant off the hook.
I refocused on Grant and saw a beaten butch, preserved in alcohol. I could smell her humiliation. I remembered how she forced the men in the factories to show her some respect. Slowly her belief that she
deserved it had eroded. And suddenly my own words echoed in my ears: How much of myself was I willing to give up to distance myself from her?But we don't do this anymore. Nobody does really."You know what I remember, Grant?" Everyone looked up at me. "I remember when we unloaded frozen food on the docks near the lake." I glanced at
Edna. The faint smile on her lips was a gift for me.
Grant nodded. "Yeah, those were the good old days, weren?t they?"
I shook my head. "Some of it was a nightmare. I sure wouldn't want to go back to the bar raids and the drunken fights. They're only good old days 'cause I don't have to live them anymore.
Grant leaned forward. "You wouldn?t want to go back to those days?"
I laughed. "Not even at gunpoint. The only things I miss are the ways we stood up for each other, how we tried to make a home for each other. And we could do that right here."
Uh yeah I envy people who are just actually paid to do this [BEEP] lol.
The impulse is pure
Sometimes our circuits get shorted
By external interference
Signals get crossed
And the balance distorted
By internal incoherence
A tired mind become a shape-shifter
Everybody need a mood lifter
Everybody need reverse polarity
Everybody got mixed feelings
About the function and the form
Everybody got to deviate
From the norm
I can't really escape JK Rowling this week it seems lol. After a long period of basically not noticing her at all.
I went for a walk with my brother and he ironically brought up when suggesting going for a walk that it's good to like well touch grass basically lol (but he said that in a more amusing/creative way.) But then we just ended up having a long conversation about everything and the state of the world etc anyway. Then at one point he brought up some stuff JK Rowling tweeted which I hadn't seen (cause I'm not generally trying and I'm doing (*gestures to posts* instead lol. Though I did see the thing George Takei responded to the other day,) but I have seen what my brother was talking about now.
Someone made this tweet thread about this:
Yeah she's not very strong with arguments. She never has been I think. Mostly appeals to emotion.This is a bizarre but incredibly important interaction for understanding how JK Rowling's mind works post-radicalisation, and how cult movements and extremist groups are able to function in conflict with seemingly undeniable reality.
A small thread
... Rowling makes a post suggesting that the Nazi attack on Institut fur Sexualwissenschaft was "a fever dream" without a "sojource"
Alejandra Caraballo responds by giving sources. It's a well documented historical event. Sources are easy to find.
And then things get weirder...
... JK Rowling suggests those sources don't actually count because they don't prove "all research on trans healthcare was burned" or "trans people were the first victims of the Nazis".
Well yeah. They don't claim that.
The tweet Rowling called a fever dream didn't claim that...
... What's happened here is that JK Rowling has public tweeted out something that's not just bigoted, revolting, historical revisionism. It's also very, very stupid.
And it's *obviously* stupid.
Ten seconds of Googling would have proved her wrong and she couldn't be bothered...
It's also somewhat the us vs them thing that happens on twitter that's hard to avoid. You read a bunch of tweets etc and everyone has tribalistic bios so you then see them all as being from one person instead of individual people. Very useful to click on accounts and read everything that account is saying (it's a weird thing to do that people encourage you not to do because it's creepy and yet it might be the only way to avoid this,) but even then because of how the website works many people won't share everything.
I guess she's switched to holocaust denialism now and also not addressing the points the person she was responding to actually said (which is incredibly common online in general tbh.) I've seen this so often at this point (this kind of denialism,) from her side of the debate that it's kind of old news.
Some modern facists actually argue that the nazi's did burn various books and that 'this was actually a good thing' like a bunch who showed up to this protest below. On some level it's surreal and weird but fascist and nazi viewpoints are so common for me to see now that it doesn't feel weird. I don't agree with them but they're just everywhere online for a start.
But she doesn't want to be aligned with them (I assume.) So has to argue against the idea that it happened hmm.
But I'm really not that interested in her specifically. People bring her up a lot but I have other people I'm more focussed on. Debating or addressing her seems generally useless. She weaponises her vulnerability against others so there's no way you can really argue or debate with someone like that. Some people I dislike and disagree with sometimes have interesting ideas I want to engage with or inspire me to think about certain things but she's not one of those people at all lol. She just occasionally tweets rubbish into the void so *shrugs*
A lot of people regurgitate the work of conspiracy theorists etc. Like that conspiracy theorist woman whose name I've forgotten that everyone cites. Some American who is on social media.
Very, very few people are willing to admit that they made a mistake publically. At best you can hope they acknowledge it privately and change their behaviour in the future.... But JK Rowling has spent the last half decade essentially being worshipped by a cult.
She is used to stating obvious nonsense without pushback. To anti-LGBTQ+ campaigners, she is infallible. They will change their perception of reality to match whatever she proclaims...
... So when she absolutely puts her foot in her mouth, her ego does not have the capacity to admit "Oh shit, we have said something painfully idiotic and easy to disprove here"
Instead, she tries the method that works with the cult.
Simply deny reality and substitute her own...
I also doubt most anti trans campaigners really care about her beyond what she adds to this debate if it serves them. She's otherwise a kind of milquetoast liberal and most people in this debate aren't.
Mm again what I think actually happened is she has twitterbrain and she doesn't see the person she's debating with as an individual. So she found some other tweet because 'everyone is the same.' Eh, it's very common because of how the Human mind works and everyone engages in this thinking at some point or other. Difficult to avoid with outgroups especially.... Now, this is what's known as a Motte-and-Bailey Fallacy. Or you could consider it a Straw Man Fallacy.
Or you could just call it lying.
But the important part isn't really the weak deception as it is the fact that JK Rowling is just openly doing this BS in public...
... Rather than accepting that she was - objectively - wrong, JK Rowling tries to retcon reality.
Like a small child without object permanence.
And when she's called out on it, she finds an *entirely different tweet* and tries to slot it in the place of the one she attacked...
Lol I wouldn't continue to stay on twitter then. But nobody ever leaves lol so.... It's bizarre.
It's genuinely uncomfortable to watch someone with such a lose grip on factual reality. Someone who has become so used to her worshippers that she truly expects all of humanity to ignore when she's been caught out and make-believe that she's right, actually...
I'm sure there are pathological parasocial JK Rowling stans around (inevetible given her career,) but tbh I think she's mostly just a useful idiot for nazis. They worm their way into various groups that don't actively gatekeep against them. It's a huge pain especially for groups that are trying to be open.... To be clear, this WILL of course still work on her cultists.
Even now there are doubtless "Gender Critical" journalists trying to work out how to contort the facts to make JK Rowling sound like she hasn't denied historically evidenced Nazi atrocities. It's what cults do...
Posie Parker has expressed willingness to work with anyone because she's determined to 'win at all costs.' Basically. They show up to various gender critical events and protests like in the video above and also in the UK some random woman just quoted Mein Kampf at a event to make her point but like completely out of context.. And you get all the conspiracy theorists showing up too. Anywhere that might give them a platform or visibility they'll show up to.
This is what the original tweet was referencing btw:... Now, interestingly, JK Rowling tries to pivot again.
She's trying to overrule the work of historians and holocaust researchers by citing Malcolm Clark, a non-historian who has attacked having LGBTQ+ groups in schools and has worked with the transphobic LGB Alliance.
BUT...
...If you take a few seconds to look at it properly you can see she's doing the exact same thing again
Her first tweet was specifically about denying the looting of the Institut fur Sexualwissenschaft. She cannot defend that position so she tries to substitute a different one...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instit...alwissenschaft
The Institut fur Sexualwissenschaft was an early private sexology research institute in Germany from 1919 to 1933. The name is variously translated as Institute for Sexual Research, Institute of Sexology, Institute for Sexology, or Institute for the Science of Sexuality. The Institute was a non-profit foundation situated in Tiergarten, Berlin. It was the first sexology research center in the world.[1][2][3]The nazi's really didn't want people carrying out research into sexuality and gender or documenting stuff related to this. This has a far bigger impact than just trans people btw.The institute pioneered research and treatment for various matters regarding gender and sexuality, including gay, transgender, and intersex topics. In addition, it offered various other services to the general public: this included treatment for alcoholism, gynecological examinations, marital and sex counseling, treatment for venereal diseases, and access to contraceptive treatment. It offered education on many of these matters to both health professionals and laypersons.[6][7]
The Nazi book burnings in Berlin included the archives of the institute. After the Nazis gained control of Germany in the 1930s, the institute and its libraries were destroyed as part of a Nazi government censorship program by youth brigades, who burned its books and documents in the street.[8][9][10]
His work wasn't entirely destroyed as I've downloaded some of Hirschfeld's books and other researchers have cited stuff. Although there's very little research on people like me in general (even now,) it was kind of useful to find anecdotes like this:
https://www.academia.edu/27204337/He...nder_dysphoria
She was erotically attracted to homosexual males, particularly (in her words) "gentler, nonmacho gay men," in relation to whom she felt herself more masculine. She expressed romantic fantasies of being a man in a homosexual relationship with another male whom she could protect and care for, and there were less obviously erotic fantasies of protecting a homosexual male friend from being assaulted or ridiculed in public. Unlike the many heterosexual male gender dysphorics who relate fantasies of being, or becoming, a lesbian, she denied ever having been aroused erotically by cross-dressing. This case rather resembles those mentioned by Hirschfeld.I think I got stuck before trying to follow the link from this Hirschfeld quote I found online and the Roman writing he cited (I may have found it before I think I might have but I can't again now for the same reasons as before lol so not spending hours doing it now,) but you can see how important this is also as a defence to people who wish to erase your existence and practice cultural or literal genocide.
There's also a lot of 'this person had some bad views therefore everything is wrong/bad' thinking which isn't a good position to take but I think was what Malcolm Clark was going for in his tweet thread.
This interaction below is actually even more annoying but common. A really bad argument as language is always evolving:
When a culture becomes obsessed with birth rate as ours is again now, it can be highjacked by right wing authoritarians easily I think. Their problem with that institute was also related to birth rate in part. It promoted contraception etc allegedly.The TRAs keep producing papers from 1930s talking about transgender people. I keep telling them they must be fraudulent since the word wasn?t even invented then. They would have been called transvestites or transexuals.Definitely, all research about a phenomenon prior to the coinage of a term is debunked, and we can't possibly know what they were actually talking about even when it's accurately described.
"We didn't have a word for it then, so it didn't exist!"
The modern pronatalists who are part of the wider ... there was an acronym someone came up with but I can't find it right now so lets say 'nerdsphere' for lack of a better term, seem to think that most pronatalist cultures are right wing authortarian and they are going to try and outbreed them and hope that they won't destroy them. Eg that couple:
This sounds very much like the plot of a movie and I have to just take a moment to ... Humans are so theatrical/dramatic. And often I like that but can't we just chill for a whilllllllleeeeeeee. Why is the world always ending etc?
I don't entirely know how the 'urban monoculture' (think this is synonym for woke but hard to say,) is protecting them? I guess by converting people ideologically for a while? But they think this is bad because the right wing authoritarians should be allowed to be themselves and I suppose because the birth rate is so low, so they view it as parasitic, 'but they're outbreeding us and will destroy us oh no!' (that seems like an ironically xenophobic thought really. There's a lot of people who do want to destroy various people though but still.) You can't force people to reproduce though can you? At any rate a lot of people who want kids aren't reproducing right now due to various things getting in the way.
It's the paradox of tolerance really isn't it?
The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them. Karl Popper describes the paradox as arising from the self-contradictory idea that, in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.[2]edit: Lol 'how can I make this post more goth?'
I'm kind of thinking though that there's things you can do besides obsessively reproducing. When cultures become older, people become more risk averse with age (so if you reproduce less unfortunately that becomes a feedback loop,) also promoting over protective parenting appears to increase risk aversion (what you're seeing in recent generations of young people.) There's also the response to pathogens etc. Like people become more conservative in response to disease risk.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8014651/
😔During the pandemic, participants reported conforming more strongly to traditional gender roles and believing more strongly in traditional gender stereotypes than they did before the pandemic. Political ideology remained constant over time. These findings suggest that a pandemic may promote the preference for traditional gender roles.
Some parasites and disease are homophobic.
Lol.
Lots of things effect Human psychology. Anyway though (the far right mentality):
This is hopeful:
And many right wing guys seem to know. And it's why they absolutely hate single, childless women and complain about that all th time on twitter. They think they can control women through marriage and then control the state.Political socialization, political gender gaps and the intergenerational transmission of left-right ideology
Young women consistently place themselves on the left of men across all combinations of parental ideology, which indicates that the gender-generation gap trumps other gendered patterns in intergenerational transmission. Consequently, daughters are less likely than sons to take over their parents rightist positions, while parent-son transmission is equally large on the left and the right. This also means that left-leaning parents have a general advantage over right-leaning parents in having their ideological identification reproduced by their daughters. The study highlights the importance of differentiating between the transmission of left- and right-wing ideology in political socialization processes. Moreover, it demonstrates that the distinction by offspring gender is imperative when studying the intergenerational transmission of traits that display gender differences within and between parental and offspring generations. The findings point at the active role of especially female offspring in the political socialization process, as they seem to be more strongly impacted by influences outside the family that sustain generational processes of further gender realignment.
Lol this thing I just found while trying to find the acronym (it's something like TECREAL but it's not bringing anything up. TESCREAL? Yeah that's it lol I missed out the S before,) is a great explanation of a bias a lot of people have which ultimately leads to problems 'this is heterodox, therefor it must be true.'
https://thingofthings.substack.com/p...-cultic-milieu
The "cultic milieu" is a concept developed by sociologist Colin Campbell. The "cultic milieu" is the subculture from which new religious movements usually emerge; it also produces conspiracy theories, heretical sects of currently existing religions, and woo/quackery.Members of the cultic milieu tend to drift between wildly contradictory new religious movements. It's very common for someone to start out a UFOlogist, become a theosophist, and eventually wind up a sedevacantist. The basic thought process between all of these groups is the same.
The cultic milieu is marked by its deep interest in stigmatized knowledge. Stigmatized knowledge falls into five categories:
Forgotten knowledge (things that supposedly were once widely known and is forgotten, e.g. the lost wisdom of Atlantis)
Superseded knowledge (things that people used to believe but don't anymore, e.g astrology)
Ignored knowledge (things that low-status people believe, e.g. folk medicine)
Rejected knowledge (things that the mainstream thinks are false from the outset, e.g. UFOs)
Suppressed knowledge (things that authoritative institutions allegedly know to be true but are hiding for some reason, e.g. cancer cures)This can present an obvious problem.I was long puzzled about why rationalists keep becoming traditional Catholics, or getting really into chakras, or trying to summon demons, or joining the alt-right. You would think, given all the learning how to think good training we're allegedly getting, we wouldn't do that stuff! I think, given the "cultic milieu" concept, this observation is exactly what you would expect. While rationalists are more right than UFOlogists or for that matter people who believe in chakras, people do not become rationalists because they are especially good at thinking. People become rationalists because they are attracted to the cultic milieu--that is, people who distrust authority and want to figure things out for themselves and like knowing secrets that no one else knows. People who are attracted to the cultic milieu are attracted to stigmatized knowledge whether or not it is in fact correct. The members of the conventional cultic milieu drift smoothly from astrology to aliens. It is to be expected that some rationalists do the same.
They're also really just describing the mindset that is drawn to conspiracy thinking lol. I mean based on research I was looking into earlier in the pandemic it sounds similar. But yeah. There's a certain amount of narcissism (wanting access to knowledge others don't have,) paranoia (distrust of authority,) and magical thinking involved of course.
There are problems with this way of thinking even though it's not always wrong.
You should definitely seperate 'this is definitely true, because it's heterodox' from 'this is interesting because it's heterodox' and it's like that guy I talked about before who actually is part of the rationalist community as well said about the researcher he was working with:
All kind of people with strong agendas too.They pretend like they are just saying the truth to the best of their ability, but actually they... Do something else. Idk what exactly. I suspect [researcher] has a secret agenda of seeking to defend unfairly marginalized theories or something. Not sure. But at the very least [group] seem to have an instrumental goal of manipulating the available set of facts to serve their preconceptions
E.g.
[examples of bias]
There's a huge problem with this especially in the current age of the internet. A lot of people are just being constantly exploited by antisocial grifters.The cultic milieu is by its nature anti-authoritarian. Of course, they are opposed to large religions, academia, the government, corporations, and other powerful institutions in our society. But it goes deeper. No single organization within the cultic milieu can tell people what to do. While the controlling and abusive communities get the most press, most belief systems in the cultic milieu are loosely structured and don't prescribe many practices among their adherents. It?s really hard to get people in the cultic milieu to do what you told them to do. They?re going to come up with their own personal Atlantis-Nostradamus-UFO synthesis and ignore whatever you said.
You have to have some level of defense or it becomes as stupid as going along with 'the system (tm)' worse actually if you're not a particuarly good thinker.
Tendency of cultural outliers probably. Subcultures are outside of the mainstream culture by definition.This is fascinating, although for me (not being a member of the rationalist community) much of what is fascinating is the entire notion of the cultic milieu (which I'd never come across before) as much as its application to the rationalists.
I assume there has been work drawing structural parallels between the vast web of the cultic milieu and other cultural webs: for instance, the culture of fandom (from SF to anime to all sorts of things) strikes me as parallel in interesting ways: overlapping, people tend to move from one to the other, intense, scholarly in an out-of-academia sort of way, interested in forgotten/ignored/rejected things (in this case, aesthetic rather than knowledge per se), etc. I wonder whether this might be a more generalizable model of how culture works on a vast scale and different type of platform (mass media and internet) than the localized village/tribe model that we often think of when we think of culture.
Anyway, lots of food for thought. Thanks.
At the point where you're labelled neurodivergent your actual neurology isn't 'mainstream' so of course lol. And yeah, neurodivergent people are overpresented in niche fandom etc. I mean autism actually encourages 'special interests' and hyperfixation which don't have to be towards things that are niche and weird but often are moreso for men though. I think women's special interests can be more mainstream.I wonder if it's how neurodivergent people do culture 🤔
The impulse is pure
Sometimes our circuits get shorted
By external interference
Signals get crossed
And the balance distorted
By internal incoherence
A tired mind become a shape-shifter
Everybody need a mood lifter
Everybody need reverse polarity
Everybody got mixed feelings
About the function and the form
Everybody got to deviate
From the norm
I guess I'm in the 1.2% of 'user specified gender.' I also think this video won't work for me at all lol.
lol her audience is 91.5% male. Her content is aimed at men so this doesn't surprise me especially as she moved in a more socially trad direction with recent content cause of the online bubbles she's in and her twitter takes can get pretty bad. She also blocks lots of people for disagreeing lol (across the ideological spectrum often for very little really.)
I also dislike her husband's political takes who will respond to her tweets. Uses words like dysgenic and is pretty conservative. Can't really abide. It is what it is.
I think it probably wouldn't have been such a stark difference in percentage even a few years ago. I mean I have a channel with a bunch of Sims content (reasonably female dominated though there are male YouTubers and simmers in the community,) and even then I still get 30% men viewing.
I was following Shoe for the humour and when she jokes about being a femboy or expresses attraction to women like the time she kept flirting with Ash on twitter. I don't really care for advice content of this nature unless it's the occasional video from Abby Shapiro and even then it's only because I pretend she's bisexual and not terrible in my head and it's a meme. And even then I'm joking and haven't really watched any of her videos besides the one where she was criticising feminine men which was dumb/annoying. She seems like someone who could be attractive/less annoying.
She gets a lot of 'shoeonhead?' 'is this lesbian shoeonhead?' Comments I noticed lol. Mostly from people outside her fanbase I think who discover her channel. I can't imagine many of them would like shoe cause of the Tumblr-adj/4chan-adj cultural divide online.
I bet their audiences are inverted.
Shoe's video might deviate from what I expect though. Comments don't really reassure me:
Honestly, the thing about the "I feel protected with you" being better than "you're handsome" is 100% correct. When my girlfriend says things like that, I just melt into a puddle.Ngl, that "i feel protected when I'm with you" would destroy me"Say: "I feel very protected when I'm with you" is top tier adviceThis isn't how my mind works and I wouldn't want to lie/perform really. It's also a turn off for me I think unfortunately."I feel very protected when I'm with you." Is indeed a magic phrase. I got that compliment once, and I immediately wanted to build a house for her. The relationship sadly didn't work out, though, and it took me ages to get over her.
Many men don't give two shits about how they look as long as they can protect and provide for someone.
One time when I was walking back from school someone chucked an apple at the back of my head and it hurt but I was OK and then this guy came up and asked me if I was OK and somehow I started crying. I feel sure if he didn't ask I wouldn't have it was like the embarrassment tipped me over into starting to cry and honestly made things worse because I just felt pathetic. Of course feeling that way is illogical but that's just how it was. I felt the same way when people tried to intervene and tell teachers I was being bullied (which happened twice in two different schools.)I've found that approaching a crying woman is a roll of the dice. Sometimes she'll appreciate you caring and other times she'd rather be left alone, which is also fair enough.
Lol.I was at a mall and saw a woman quietly crying to herself and ngl, the instinct to go over and check on her was absolutely there...
Also there was the fear of being called a creep, being accused of harassment, or accused of taking advantage of a vulnerable person, being gotcha'd on camera, etc.
I settled for finishing my drink and hoping she got through it before leaving without so much as ever acknowledging it. Just like society wants me to. 💀nah she should women up and stop crying in public.💀i dont emote im over 30.
I'm glad I had unsatisfying relationships because if I didn't I might do something like that but I know being single isn't actually the worst thing lol.as someone who got into a relationship just because I was lonely, for god's sake please don't
As I say this content isn't really designed for me as a non-binary person. But it's telling that her audience includes and likely will continue to include basically no women anyway. A lot of women aren't feminine enough in personality to make this sort of thing work. It's too ego dystonic. So it's worth considering why this won't work for a lot of women and why no women watch her channel. Even this video is technically for straight men lol and very few women are commenting I can see one comment where a 21 year old woman said she met her boyfriend at a metal concert. And this comment:
I think most feminine women are probably already in relationships or not looking for advice? Not spending so much time in certain online circles maybe.I asked my husband out on our first date. If I waited around for men to ask me for dates/ whatever each time, I'd be passing away a spinster.
Like this tweet and the responses I found on twitter earlier:
You deserve a feminine woman?Masculine men don't want feminist or masculine women.
There are not 'scores of desirable women' who can't find a good man. What they offer and what they seek are misaligned. And Western society is so gynocentric that that mere observation is oft labeled 'misogyny'.Masculine men deserve feminine women?.
Why has this norm disappeared
I think a lot of women aren't feminine now (or there are excessive complaints online about that, I don't think they are masculine though per my own definition.) Being that guy again though:There's only so much masculine power a feminine soul can accept. The precise amount varies depending on the woman.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7711028/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-18372-0Participants with gender role conflicts had lower marital satisfaction scores. Also, those who had feminine and androgynous gender roles had higher marital satisfaction. Having an androgynous gender role is a predictor of better marital satisfaction, which has been shown in several studies. Diaz and Bui (32) indicated that because individuals with androgynous gender role are unified and can resolve gender stereotypes and are not restricted to one gender, they are more flexible and adaptable to different circumstances. In our study, individuals with a feminine gender role had higher marital satisfaction compared to those who had undifferentiated and masculine gender roles. Their scores also were a little higher than people with androgynous gender role, but the difference was not statistically significant. This is an interesting result which needs future consideration.
Seems like straight women are attracted to more masculine faces compared to those that aren't exclusively straight. I can only conclude that the research in the first study I linked is because they didn't find that same subgroup of women or personality is just different to the findings about facial structure more likely.We found that homosexual women's subjective and neural responses reflected greater bias towards female stimuli, compared with bisexual and heterosexual women, whose responses did not significantly differ.[...]
Studies using physiological measures have found that women tend to have non-specific patterns of genital arousal1,2,3. That is, in contrast to men, women tend to show similar degrees of arousal to erotic stimuli depicting either sex.
More of gen z women are identifying as bisexual now as well. I've genuinely come across bisexual women who just date women and are like 'I'm attracted to men, but I realised that women don't expect me to be feminine and I prefer the gender roles in our relationship.'
Hard to say how much of an issue this is though. People are very loud on social media. Statistics suggest lots of people have given up on dating but I think there are so many reasons for that. Not least of which is a lot of people have no privacy and still live with their parents.
Meanwhile me browsing guy I mentioned before's tweets again:
He never talks about himself in a clear way. I mean I feel like he's not present in the fantasy and it's abstract. I can't put my finger on it.It's so fun and feminine for women to be swept off their feet and carried. Men should do that for their women much more often than they do now. It's as if we have become afraid of truly enjoying our lovers, afraid of drinking in the sensual delights they offer us.
Yeah.. Still trying to figure out what role you want though.Well, there's a reason there's suddenly a massive shortage of marriageable men. And no, getting them to assume the woman's traditional role in the relationship is not the answer; the men hate it, and the women find it a turn-off.
He criticises men so much people are still assuming he's a woman lol (and that helps but it's for bad reasons.):
I'd like him to post about how he wants to look like woman more. But I think at this point I'm too turned off. Trying to get a certain emotional reaction I experienced last month back lol. I guess I was probably ill during some of those moments too. Reminds me of this:Given the state of men these days who can blame them, but ultimately what alternative is there to just trying to be the best woman you can be, come what may?"the state of men" you mean the ones you are attracted to? maybe you are the problem
I'm not sure where to find something similar but better though. Outside certain 18+ content of course. I mean in the wild. I don't mean someone trans (I guess? I mean that's not what I'm looking for at this exact moment in time.) There needs to be some kind of conflict/contrast and also his weird time traveller/way of writing persona helps. I think.
very unsatisfying:
If you're not willing to pay for your girl you don't deserve to have her: why didn't we teach our youth to be real men? 😑I'm not sure if they're saying that without thinking because it's a generic statement people tend to make, or if they're picking up on his narcissism but nobody has used that word or been clearer with him:I've attempted a major glow-up as I've gone into my thirties, and frankly I'm really disappointed at how little it's gotten me anywhere. Yes, I like looking better, and new people do treat me better, but socially I'm about as discriminated against as ever. I feel about the same.Yeah, you gotta work on your personalityBut I see other people get social success and be well liked despite having objectively much worse personalities and even much worse social skills than I do, so I know for sure that's not it.
And frankly your very tone you took with "Yeah, you gotta work on your personality" comes off as insulting, so you are hereby blocked. I don't tolerate people who talk to me like that, yet that's how everybody always talks at me: nothing but sneers, glares, and snide lecturing.
Why you bullies are attracted to abusing me like moths to a flame I don't know. I also don't know why all you people slobber all over men who are far more awkward than I am yet think I'm the one who needs to work on my personality?
It honestly just comes off as gaslighting, so forgive me if I don't believe you're being honest about a single word any of you say to me. I've lived long enough and am smart enough to know better, so cut the crap.
He sounds a bit like this sometimes:as someone who has long lived in one of the most heavily religious-conservative areas of the country, I have the dubious pleasure of witnessing these ugly, weird, dumb cultists spawn baby after baby at my age, and it's nothing short of horrifying; a thought courses back and forth in my mind, an imperative lodged in my very soul: these people must not be the future of humanity.
The only path available to me to fight back? Starting a family of my own. Half their blood will come from me, and I'll raise them right, preserving and nurturing a nucleus of the better sort of humanity for future victory.
Maybe if I was able to be somewhere elite and prestigious (think Cambridge or something) from an early age (like 8 ) with intellectual peers I would have had a chance, but surveying my life history I almost come to the conclusion I was doomed from the start by my circumstances. Sure, I could probably crawl up to where 1%ers were in their teens by the time I'm in my forties, but by then I'll be too old to really enjoy it like I deserved to. Life is a luxury good.Oh my gosh lol:I love this social presumption that if you're poor you're supposed to just have this network of a huge family and circle of friends...well, what if your family is all dead and since childhood people have never wanted to be your friend (*cough* like me)?Don't be insufferable and people will want to be your friendIs this an attempt to bully me? I know people like you hate the idea of anybody who's an undesirable having any money, so you do your best to organize society around who's "the best liked" so you can ensure I'm dead if you just don't like me for no reason other than pure sadism.
It's almost fascinating to me because he's so textbook.Frankly it's people like you who ought to be cast in the gutter, but I know that'll never happen, because human society is nothing more than a pack of degenerates captive to the lowest form of crab mentality. There's no redemption for any of you.
*googles how to communicate with narcissists*Like, what you say is untrue. I've spent most of my 30 years of life walking on eggshells around people because I'm branded as "insufferable", and you know what? Nobody ever wants to be my friend then either! So just stop this bullshit, stop lying, and start telling the truth.
*creates spreadsheet of reaction of my thoughts about everything he's tweeted*
No lol.
Also I hate twitter.
I honestly wonder if I should go full narcissist and sing my own praises, since nobody else ever goes out of their way to say or do anything nice for me.Oh man.Like, what have I got to lose?
This is cute though:Trouble with that is...that leaves me feeling really lonely, for reasons that ought to be obvious. And I don't have any real friends. I can't make any, no matter what I do. Some people I guess are just doomed to be hated by all despite being objectively good human beings.
I've always liked my hair; it's so wavy and shiny, yet so brunette, just like my biggest crush from history Emma, Lady Hamilton, who had the best hair ever. All my other historical-girl crushes and even my present-day crushes have that same sort of hair, the same kind I have as an adult.And if I pretend he's actually talking about himself when he does this:Aww...every day is a good day when you can get this cute little latte to start it off. 🥰
Anyway I'm doing the 'I can fix him thing' because I'm bored, and need to stop lol.
Basically I want a guy who is like a more monogamous version of Aella. Like kinda masculine personality + intelligent but feminine sexual orientation and at the same time is really into aesthetic femininity in general and themselves and posts about that and also creative. And also not this and nothing because who the [BEEP] knows.
Aella's kind of hot but I don't think I'm her type at all and again I think I'm mostly monogamous and she finds that a turn off and is very the opposite. Feel like I would have to find someone who shares my special interests in sexology etc in order to not drive them fucking insane possibly.
What do you mean I can't find a unicorn?
Whoever is running this simulation really needs to update some things. They're afk.
Also Florida is apparently raising the stripping age to 21. I've been talking about this kind of thing for years but we're going to see things gradually get pushed further and further in this direction possibly to the point of complete insanity. Everything will be raised till at least age 25 though eventually. There is a precedent for this in the US though because they don't allow adults to drink until they're 21 so it encourages the age of adulthood in general to be increased until 21. From there they will aim for 25. Going to be really curious if they'll push it further. It's going to cause a lot of psychological damage. I've always looked young for my age so I know what that feels like and it's not good.
Florida celebrated International Women's Day last week by treating the state's young women like children. On Friday, state lawmakers approved a bill banning 18- to 20-year-olds from being strippers or from working in any other capacity at an adult entertainment venue.Yeah people don't really see the ongoing cultural problem here. They're just like 'sex is gross and sex work bad so this is fine.'It's also part of a growing movement across the U.S. to push up the boundaries of childhood, making all sorts of things once legal for 18- to 20-year-olds now off limits.
So many comments to this like "oh, look, libertarians defending the right of old men see 18-year-old girls naked"
😞
Apparently they can't even conceive of a world in which young women -- and not the state -- own their own bodiesThey don't care.It is no exaggeration to say that if I hadn?t had the option to start stripping at 18 to get away from my abusive home situation I would 1) most likely be dead now and 2) I definitely would have had to live on the streets as a teenager.
I still haven't bothered to actually watch 90% of that shoeonhead video lol. Maybe one day.
edit: So I watched more of the video and this part lol where the's reading out the advice tips and some modern journalist response to one of them:
Well force femme is one of my kinks. So actually yes please create/read that guide."tell him that's fine, but he has to wear the evening gown - and the heels"
hello? force feminise your date. 129 ways to get a boywife.
You know I really like long hair but I don't think so. She looked much more distinctive with that style and if she had long hair she would have looked more generic and people wouldn't still view her as this iconic style icon.Audrey Hepburn is an excellent example of how stick-thin short-haired women who still look good look good in spite of those traits rather than because of them.
This was a response to someone saying this:
That's not necessarily a bad thing either.Audrey Hepburn looked like a homosexual man. The only reason anyone says she is beautiful is because it was beaten into them by Hollywood. She had a pretty face and was charming. But she was neither hot nor sexy. AH was proof that charm alone can get you far.
If those are my choices Audrey Hepburn. She was like Winona Ryder before Winona Ryder. But I don't really see the need to compare these two women (not Winona and Audrey, Audrey and the woman she brought up,) and obviously most guys are going to find the other woman more attractive which is why this twitter user decided to slut shame her and call her a sex object.[long slut shaming tweet about some woman and Audrey Hepburn]
Ladies, who would you rather be?
Also Winona's cool:
And I love Beetlejuice.
That's interesting.Audrey Hepburn Used to Send Clothes to Winona Ryder
Oh LOL I just realised that tweet is from Abby Shapiro. OF COURSE IT IS. She's more attractive too. Please stop being terrible.
I have such bad taste.
It's very hypocritical. She doesn't show off cleavage perhaps (I've not looked extensively so I dunno.) But she has photos showing off her legs. Which is part of why I thought she was attractive. Also she has photos wearing shorts and a tanktop where you can fill in the rest with your imagination.Newsflash, men still see you as a sex object
As a man, I find Audrey far more enchanting.Yes actually. As a gay man and woman. Non-binary if you will. Pretty gay and straight.*As a gay man
And the other woman is hot but that's not really 'enchanting' is it?
lol.I'm not reading all that. Neither of you are hot goth chicks.
People keep bringing her up but she was a sex symbol and the equivalent of her time so I don't get it. She also suffered with anxiety and mood disorders and self esteem issues and addiction and comitted suicide at age 36 so I'm not sure most people would have wanted her life exactly. Similar situation with Britney Spears (and they are related weirdly.)Marilyn Monroe would be more fitting,
It doesn't really work the equivalent is when guys do this lol:Imagine a guy writing a disagreement piece because a guy is popular about his bulge?
Or like when guys criticise Harry Styles or back when they were freaking out about Justin Bieber etc. They only do it with guys who are kind of boyish/androgynous and appeal to teen girls from what I've noticed. Probably because they're the most vocal group + have more agreement in their attractions generally so catches guy's attention more. That and men are more attracted to younger women..
Also I just realised the actress they're talking about was in a film I watched recently and I didn't even recognise her lol so that's pretty funny. Like I actually watched a film with her in recently. It was a romantic comedy and I doubt I would recognise the guy either. I was just going to be vague about that but at this point might as well say who it is lol if I'm going to post about the film... The film wasn't that great but I liked the concept it was based on Much Ado About Nothing so I decided to watch it. Kind of annoyed that it wasn't better since the concept is solid. I mean it's Shakespeare. It's like messing up a Pride and Prejudice adaptation. OK it's only loosely based on it but still.
This was funny:
I saw all these article titles like 'romcoms are back' like not really this was not a good film. It's not outperfoming fanfiction I can and have been reading lately.
How do you mess this trope up? But it's possible I just don't like romcoms. I liked a couple in the past but I dunno if I'd even like some of those now. Like I used to like Pretty Woman but I haven't felt like watching that in years. My brother did recently actually lol. Trying to think of romcoms I enjoyed I used to have much lower standards when I was younger but honestly can't think of many off the top of my head. How to Lose a Guy in 10 days was OK when I was a teenager I think. I looked through a list and either don't remember the film well/didn't make a strong impact or never watched it. A lot of the romantic films and TV shows I've liked are romantic dramas. I like comedy TV shows a lot but not really into the combination I guess.In the edgy comedy Anyone But You, Bea (Sydney Sweeney) and Ben (Glen Powell) look like the perfect couple, but after an amazing first date something happens that turns their fiery hot attraction ice cold -- until they find themselves unexpectedly thrust together at a destination wedding in Australia.
I watched Far from the Madding Crowd (2015) last year and wasn't super into the film I actually wrote about the issues I had with it but I've forgotten them all now haha. I think I felt it was rushed or something. But I like the general storyline. Oh yeah and they left out something from the book which I felt was important to include Spoiler: she saves Gabriel's life at one point before he initially proposes to her because it seems like a really central aspect to their relationship. Like I know people do delusional stuff when they're in love etc but why would he stick around so long through all of that crap? I just feel bad for him lol while watching the film.
I also liked this BBC adaptation of Tess of D'urbervilles (though it's depressing,) and I like the 2005 Pride and Prejudice film although I kind of don't need to see that again for a while again. But watch it now and then. So I guess what I'm saying is I mostly like English stuff or films based on English stuff hahaha. Racist against Americans again. I also used to watch Japanese and Korean dramas at one point.
I thought Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind was interesting but probably wouldn't watch it again because I remember it being kind of a bummer in a way that I don't need to rewatch now.
People always talk about how insanely depressing Requiem for a Dream is like Grave of the Fireflies. I've seen the latter film and wouldn't watch it again as once was enough. But I am still curious about the former which I haven't seen and given how famous the film is too. But I don't know if I want to do it because I've somehow avoided spoilers but I feel like it might be some kind of mindfuck movie. Cause it's not just if a film is depressing (although if it's that bad that's enough on it's own to put me off these days,) but also the other specifics that can make it a lot worse. I know it has a good soundtrack though.
I like the music in Far from the Madding Crowd too:
Oh you know what has a great soundtrack? Meet Joe Black. That was a film where I ended up watching it on TV and wasn't really that into it and also don't really like Brad Pitt much (which prob didn't help,) but again the concept was amazing. and the soundtrack was great. Thomas Newman is really good. Probably favourite composer.
Um I do lol. I think a lot of people do. Horror films especially wouldn't work anywhere near as well without music.People don't realise the importance of music in films. It adds so much more emotion to those scenes, all the best films have the most memorable soundtracks, because the acting and music convey the right combination of emotions so intertwined that it brings it all back listening to that soundtrack. I feel this with Shawshank redemption, especially this scene.
Excuse you. Hildur Gudnadottir's work on he Joker soundtrack was great.You said it. Sorely missing in today's films. Even animation cartoons in the 80s had great music
The impulse is pure
Sometimes our circuits get shorted
By external interference
Signals get crossed
And the balance distorted
By internal incoherence
A tired mind become a shape-shifter
Everybody need a mood lifter
Everybody need reverse polarity
Everybody got mixed feelings
About the function and the form
Everybody got to deviate
From the norm
Beware the Ides of March.
......he wasn't kidding!
OK so I just realised this entire dumb argument I mentioned in my previous post has been going on for like a week now and transcends Abby Shapiro's tweet. Somehow it has become, as with everything a 'left vs right' culture war debate. I'm going to need someone to check on America. Like the aliens or something.
People crowing that viewers' appreciation of the actor's cleavage is some kind of win in the perpetual culture wars have lost the plot, argues Helen CoffeyYes that's a good way of putting it. We live in ridiculous times. A boring dystopia.As with many totally benign things that somehow get hijacked in the perpetual culture wars, I mainly find the whole thing vaguely exhausting. Why a desirable young woman proudly flashing her assets on TV should be interpreted as an inherently conservative act, I simply cannot fathom. Isn't a woman owning her sexuality more of a liberal move? Or is that only the case when the woman in question is deemed unf***able? Hot and flaunting your body = right-wing; not hot enough and flaunting it = "woke" (I must have missed the PSA declaring that as the new ideological benchmark).
Also she's a person with her own political views which it doesn't seem she's spoken about publicly from what I can find which makes using her as a political pawn even more stupid.
No it's 2024 and any interest you could conciveably have has been politicised. Also Abby Shapiro is 'woke' now apparently lol.Can I just enjoy titties without this being a cultural war issue? Is it too much to ask?
As a character she comes across as being more intelligent and agentic which they hate, they also disliked the story. And they all decided she was 'mid' a while back. Pretty insane to me.I don?t understand how a hot blonde is the end of wokeness but Barbie is woke.
Aella gets an insane amount of hate on twitter including from conservatives - compared to other sex workers like the proportional attention on her is off the charts. They could theoretically harass anyone but they don't to the same degree, and I can only conclude she's a target in that sense essentially because she's intelligent and self confident lol. I mean she's asking controversial questions all the time and posting research etc. They seem to view her as some kind of evil genius. And it's kind of similar for Barbie. She's not just pretty and they view her as sinister.
Lol I can just go there now like:
If all of this stuff keeps happening and boomers continue to be morons (and by boomer I mean anyone who is a millenial or older with certain cultural attitudes really.) I think they can get 100% of people to date never and every teen girl to hate themselves. Seems like a fun social experiment. I assume that was the plan.From my big survey again, 18+, n=543,993
Males are more likely than females to say they know what arouses them. 21% of males and 12% of females say they 'fully know' what arouses them; whereas 15% of males and 24% of females say they only 'slightly know' what arouses them.You?re genuinely one of the most degenerate accounts on twitter
in 2021, 57% of high school girls reported experiencing "persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness in the past year," up from 36% in 2011.You're a 40-60+ year old right wing man posting bs on social media about how every woman you disagree with politically is ugly, women shouldn't have the right to vote, women who don't have kids are worthless, creative teens posting tiktoks are posessed by the devil or something, and conventionally attractive film stars are ugly or look like teenage boys. Consider placing yourself in a vat of radioactive waste. Most of you are or should be unfuckable yourselves and if you were 20 years younger you would be because (among other reasons) teenage girls hate men.In a just-released report, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) found that nearly one in three high school girls considered suicide in 2021, a 60% increase since 2011. More girls also now report feeling so sad and hopeless they couldn?t engage in their normal activities for at least two weeks in the last year.
Because of you.
Absolutely not. Their lives are so much worse. Even the internet is so much worse then when I was a teen."I think that's where we get this big divide with adults who have a hard time relating to girls' lives in this moment, because they think girls are just going through the same stuff they did and it's a part of growing up," she said. "But, as adults, we may have gone through similar experiences, but we didn?t have the overlay of everybody knowing about it, commenting on it, or thinking it's part of their business, then having to navigate not only the hard thing that?s happening but everybody?s reaction to what we did or didn?t do."
I actually think Aella is a pretty great role model for girls ironically (especially with certain personality traits. The education system won't really help you if you aren't very conscientious and don't do well within systems.)
Personality research is probably eventually going to become a lot more useful (I hope.) Instead of the terrible thing we're doing now with schools. Like when I was a teenager and following livejournal Sims accounts run by people with ADHD (OK there was one particular case like that and she couldn't work a conventional job.) I should have thought 'you're going to have to do something like this one day. Try hard to figure out something out of the box asap that will get you money.' Tbf making money online was a rarity back then and my terrible anxiety really continues to limit me. Being lower in neuroticism would have massively helped me. I don't regret going to uni either (though I actually still have nightmares now and then that I haven't finished my disseration haha. I think this kind of thing is common apparently.) And probably wouldn't have been easily talked out of it because it was sort of something I'd just wanted to do. I picked a pretty dumb subject I wasn't brilliant at though and in the end ended up making YouTube videos and doing stuff in the same teenage fandom anyway....
My dad actually was like 'you're not good at drawing why are you going to that uni?' Because he wanted to talk me out of moving away I think. So obviously that wouldn't have helped either. I mean he changed his mind about that later but I've always felt like he was too in my head and I hate that. This is why I don't like him expressing concern about me going to concerts alone etc. I interpret it as control. Millenial parents are very overprotective and it's bad.
I am diagnosed ADHD and score in the bottom 5% of conscientiousnessShe gets asked some weird questions lol (there seemed to be no context for this tweet?) But I assumed she was low in that and so I was looking lol. I also scored very low in that when I took the test a few times but it's probably been 7 years or something since I have now.What's the ideal (for society) population percentage of people with your personality?if I were more conscientious, I'd say prob 70-80%. But I have horribly low conscientiousness so realistically 20-30%.
I sit on my [BEEP] half the days playing video games or watching youtube, I get tired after going outside like once, my house is messy, I poop like twice a week, and because of this I do *not* produce a ton of value for those around me and I do not deserve to be ultra rich.I could in theory make that much again if I started working that hard, but even with that much incentive I cannot force myself to do it. I either am zoned in hard on a project that I love or I'm playing video games while my life falls apart.i spent my extra time at home developing my own skills. I read books nonstop, wrote fantasy fiction, learned to juggle, i taught myself how to carve wood and build crafts and photoshop and learned in a huge amount about personality systems
and maybe you'd be like, but aella you're kinda weird, most kids would just play videogames
and maybe you're right, but also maybe you would play videogames too if for your entire life, all the learning you'd done was forced onto you by other people
In the years after i left home, i made friends with people who'd gone to school, and our difference in attitudes towards learning was super obvious. I was really *active* about exploring and learning from my environment, and they tended more towards learned helplessnessLol I've done things like this. I have 353456456436362 tabs open right now in three different browsers too. And my brother is always like 'you've got to close some of these Jesus Christ.' Also lol there's always some response like this:two days ago i opened up 3 different video games in a row, started a game, and then closed them after 30 seconds
I was talking to my brother the day before yesterday and rambling about stuff and ended up talking about motivation stuff and he was just like 'it's ADHD,' 'It's ADHD' 'ADHD' over and over again lol. But I actually cba getting diagnosed. I also don't fit conventionally because of life long significant social anxiety. He also has a lot of traits though and probably more steroetypical as a kid as well because teachers always complained about him. He's only diagnosed with dyslexia though and I was diagnosed with selective mutism at one point. Got not treatment for that though. Sort of like 'what's the point then?' Lol.not having children seems wild
That's such a good game as well. I've read this tweet before. Getting side tracked looking at tweets lol. I have to go out too.I used to play piano when I was a kid, and (despite not being allowed to play the game) I was obsessed with final fantasy 7 soundtrack music, but especially Sephiroth's theme One Winged Angel. Now this is the only thing I remember how to play
The soundtrack is really good and I actually bought a hardcopy of it on CD as a teenager lol. This is one of my favourite tracks:
Back to the role model thing and why... I don't agree with her about everything but she's worked in factories etc:
I have.... not exactly resentment, but some sort of soul-level grimace around ppl from middle-class, college-default families, who've spent no more than a summer in a manual labor job.
but idk I'm jealous *and* glad for them, cause I know I'd want my own kids to have that life
it's weird and confusing. I know their parents, or grandparents, worked hard to get them there, and it just so happens that *I'm* that parent/grandparent of my own line. It's *good* that society ends up so privileged. It's just also a bit hard to relate to sometimes.
I still occasionally have nightmares that I have to go back to work at the factory. I have no safety net, never will get anything from any relative. I am terrified of failure and I'm so tired of being terrified. It might be irrational at this point but it's so ingrainedyeah, kinda same? i was working very long hours on a factory floor assembly line and was like jfc i don't want this to be my life for the rest of my life, I am desperate to try something - anything else. sex work was an absolute salvation, it was like I could finally breathe
'sex work is exploitative' yeah if you go to college and get a cushy white collar job then maybe it's exploitative by contrast but don't you dare try to protect the rest of us at the bottom for whom sex work is our one chance at a good incomebut it falls really flat when i hear people saying that my sex work now is terrible and bad and i need to be saved, when i never once heard that said about me or my coworkers when we worked at that factory.This is not globally a pleasant job. A lot of working class jobs aren't really. Xu Lizhi wrote poetry about his experiences:i regret being a factory worker. i still have nightmares about that; i've never had a nightmare about being a camgirl, iirc.
the difference is society gives sympathy for one of these tragic stories way more than the other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Lizhi_(poet)
And Chelsea Wolfe created a song about him:我咽下一枚铁做的月亮
I swallowed a moon made of iron
他们把它叫做螺丝
They refer to it as a nail
我咽下这工业的废水，失业的订单
I swallowed this industrial sewage, these unemployment documents
那些低于机台的青春早早夭亡
Youth stooped at machines die before their time
我咽下奔波，咽下流离失所
I swallowed the hustle and the destitution
咽下人行天桥，咽下长满水锈的生活
Swallowed pedestrian bridges, life covered in rust
我再咽不下了
I can't swallow any more
所有我曾经咽下的现在都从喉咙汹涌而出
All that I've swallowed is now gushing out of my throat
在祖国的领土上铺成一首
Unfurling on the land of my ancestors
耻辱的诗
Into a disgraceful poem.
-- 19 December 2013
She escaped an abusive tradcon household at age 17 and became independent. Sexually confident. Pretty decent visual artist. Has experienced a wide range of life experiences. Experiences very little fear and is reasonably self confident. A lot of this might be genetic personality stuff you can't control but still.
While I think there's a bit more nuance than this, I think this thread does a really good job at putting a finger right at the heart of something about Christian abuse culture that matches my own experience.
I have one really tragic story about this 1/
The day I left home, the rest of my family did too; we sheltered at a friend's house. I swore I would never go back, my mom and younger sisters were trying to figure out what to do. I was trying so hard to convince my mom to leave my dad, and she was finally considering it 2/
I was 17, I had a min wage job but decent savings, I swore I could support all of them, I would get a better job, we could all live in one room for a while until then. I begged her, tried to use the Bible to prove she didn't have a duty to stay with an abusive husband. 3/
And she was seriously considering it! Surrounded by me and her other daughters and her friends, all repeating "no, you need to get away, you don't have to take this", the decision was starting to form in her, some strength was building.
Until our fucking pastor came over. 4/
That fucking asshat sat her down, apart from everyone else, and gently told her that her duty as a wife was to support her husband, and that she should fucking *pray* for him to be better, that separation here would be unbiblical. 5/
After that it was all over. She came back and said she was going back (and taking my two younger sisters), that the pastor was right, that she needed to be a good wife, and she left.
(Thankfully neither of my parents forced me to go back home). 6/
Did the praying work? Nope. The next month my mom called me asking me to pick her and my sisters up to help them get out of the house. But I think she could see how much I really hated my dad at that point, and she soon stopped telling me things or using me as an escape point. 7/
Years later I wrote that pastor a scathing, hateful message, telling him he absolutely fucked over the people I loved and he should go to hell.
kinda ironically i did all the trauma processing about my dad since then and have chilled out but im *still* pissed at that pastor
(this was the same pastor that required his then-22 year daughter live at home until she found a husband, because he thought women should never live without being under a man's headship)
i'm not exactly an unskeptical fan of modern feminism, but also this is why neo-trad movements freak me the [BEEP] out. "ha ha let's play around with hierarchical gender roles" AHH. NO. you don't know how dark the failure modes of these cultures can get
The impulse is pure
Sometimes our circuits get shorted
By external interference
Signals get crossed
And the balance distorted
By internal incoherence
A tired mind become a shape-shifter
Everybody need a mood lifter
Everybody need reverse polarity
Everybody got mixed feelings
About the function and the form
Everybody got to deviate
From the norm
2024 = the year of bat $#!7 crazy.
I knew the moment I tried to log into my work account on New Year's night - getting locked out - that the year would be hell.
Management has absolutely flipped their lids.
Nobody communicates.
Networks are behaving weird. I am trying to get my work done.
This is really bizarre. I don't even get how you could end up with this worldview. Like 'non-binary people exist but trans women are men.' Unless they're using non-binary in the way some people used to use genderqueer where it was more about expression or something.Recently, during class, me and my friend were talking about conservatives, and he said, "As a traditional man, I equally sexist that trans women belong in the kitchen too." as a joke, but before I could respond, my other friend blurted out, "But they're not women; trans women aren't women; they're men." I was confused and asked them if they were being serious, and they confirmed that they were, which killed the mood, and we all stopped talking. For the rest of the day, I felt this weird mixture of disgust and confusion as to why they would even think of saying that, they're literally non-binary, and most of their friends are non-binary too. (All afab if that matters.) I've been distancing myself from them due to this their other weird comments, now they're asking everyone who knows me why I've "suddenly started acting weird" and I don't want to or even know what to say advice please?
This attitude is unfortunately not unheard of. There's a thankfully small minority subset of AFAB non-binary people who seem to have a problem with all AMAB people, even/especially the ones who aren?t men. It?s like being a TERF but only against trans women.
I'm with you OP, it's bizarre and I don't get it either. Hopefully they grow a little maturity, because a worldview that inconsistent smacks of a lack of it. If they don't respond to "if non-binary people aren't their assigned gender, why are trans women their assigned gender," then there's probably not much you can do other than just avoid them if it's going to continue to be a problem.If they disliked cis women too they might have just been sexist. It's weird to not have an issue with cis guys or trans guys and cis women (theoretically,) but be bothered by trans women (well amab trans people.) I guess if you really internalise terf rhetoric against trans women or they're an incel who is into amab trans people. Remembering this cursed moment again. The backlash to that tweet was intense too:I lived with one of these! They said they were not binary and very left, and were good friends with a transmasc but was very transphobic to any amab trans people (but fine with cis men). Disgustingly toxic person who ended up defacto kicking me out and trying to drive a trans woman out. They are just TERFs but specifically to amabs.
Uh OK I have fallen down a really weird rabbit hole again lol:
It's bioessentialism- being trans or nonbinary is fine, but "males are evil and need to be put in their place".
Unfortunately I've met a lot of them.sadly it seems an increasing number of people are evade-transmisogyny-accusations gender instead of genuinely nonbinaryIt's the end conclusion of their own logic.They sound like a total [BEEP] but I think it?s wrong to question whether they?re actually non binary
Eh lots of trans people have disdain for other groups of trans people but there's obviously a logical inconsistency in 'I can be non-binary but trans women can't be women.' Not that this is unique among [BEEP] people either there's gay men who think women can't be lesbians and lots of people erase bisexuals and non-binary people. So basically they're the Milo Yiannopoulos of non-binary people I guess. But Milo is trying to be straight last I heard lol so. After he tried for a while to imitate Contrapoints' video style.yes and no
You can't be non-binary and also have an active disdain for trans people. they contradict, so only one can be really true.
has nothing to do with nb people though. they just happen to catch the flack because "nonbinary" is incredibly diverse, and comes with the fewest gender expression expectations. most cis people don't see nb's as anything other than their agab. closet-phobes latch onto the nb identity because they see it as the easiest way to get away with casual transphobia without having to actually transition.
so do I think we should accuse people of lying about their gender? no.
do I think op's friends are actually nb? also no.
That being said there are terfs who will use the label non-binary online. They also try to recruit trans men and afab non-binary people often. And I've seen transphobic people online misunderstand non-binary and assuming it's better and just means gender non-conforming. Was trying to find examples:
lol:Internal transphobia maybe?As someone who was literally a nb TERF a few years back... Yes that's it!!
Not mumsnet.Mumsnet TERF has a very normal response to her daughter having a non-binary friend
Wow. Very normal thing to do lol. She gave herself social dysphoria in her attempt to prove labels don't matter :') [BEEP] that website's hilarious.Bit overwhelmed so i may blabber on, DD friend is nb, used to come over before lockdown, DD and friend would be over after school, i would use normal language "would you girls like to get something to eat or drink" DD says i can't say that, if i asked how she is or will she come out next week, that i'm using the wrong words, that her friend is 'enbi' (her spelling) Had a few slip ups like that, the friend literally remains the same so easy mistake to make. The enbi friend doesn't come over anymore, lockdown wa sa good excuse to stop coming over entirely.You could say that you are NB instead. Your DD will see that a label is just a label then and doesn't change anything about the person.
Maybe ask her if you should change your name to something more anime related instead?
So i said i was non binary gnc, now I'm parent or (hubbys name) wife/partner, (my mother's name) child, no more shouting MAAAAAM or mum which i miss, DH is having a field day over this, they are both taking the piss and im not actually non binary so its really getting to me. DD and DH both teaming up against me. I've stopped doing everything now, they had pizza because he can't cook, i had some nice rich tea on the sofa and left crumbs everywhere, it's where DH has been sleeping since this unfolded. Trying to sort this mess out and return to normal. Anyways i don't recommend anyone else try this stunt, it may backfire horribly.
Anyway back to other thread:
do your "friends" happen to be in the 9th grade?
seriously, this is some childish shit. I'd find new friends, or at the very least stop talking to themI think the really dumb and confusing part is that they were suposedly friends and they didn't understand why saying that would bother [him]..... I could see someone saying something like that even while trans if they wanted to hurt someone or how the mindstate would develop if you've just decided to hate trans women because your only interraction with them is people online posting negative stuff about non-binary people or something like that. But then why would you be friends with a trans woman!?There are non-binary people who were assigned male who have similar views because they have a hard time with putting themselves into the shoes of a binary trans woman. I've met a few and it's jarring since sometimes it's hard to tell them from binary trans women at first glance, so you'd think they'd have more sympathy. People just tend to be individualistic at times. Binary trans people have also gone out of their way to target non-binary people at times for not understanding how someone can have a gender that isn't man or woman. It's a mess. Either way, they're not people worth knowing.
This is such a weird story that I kind of need an explanation for their logic.
Oh OK I thought he was a trans woman but he's a trans guy, also assumed the non-binary person knew.I am trans and stealth so I'm even more not sure on how to explain why I?m mad without outing myself
Edit: My guy friend knows this
I found some other thread:
I dunno wtf is going on with these people.So last year I caught up w/an old friend I hadn?t seen in years. I had come out as a trans male, and they have now come out as non-binary since the last time we saw each other.
Without going into detail and writing a novel, this person made a comment that trans women were taking things too far? and I asked what they meant. They started to go on about sports, and how they should not be allowed at women?s festivals and so on.
I get that there is a lot of differing opinions amongst the community about the sports thing- and this is a tough subject. I think what shocked me the most was that this person is a therapist and advertised they work with the trans community. You would think this would give them a different perspective and openness.
Needless to say I was highly shocked and couldn?t believe what I was hearing. I came back with some arguments- things got uncomfortable and we ended our meetup early. I have not talked to them since.
Unfortunately it surprises me the least too." I think what shocked me the most was that this person is a therapist and advertised they work with the trans community. You would think this would give them a different perspective and openness." naah, honestly this surprisis me the least actually
I wish they wouldn't.Its real messed up and telling that your friend brought this up after not seeing you in a long time. The festivals thing is weird, like if transwomen shouldnt be allowed at womens festivals why should non binary individuals? Though there are some people who are "politicaly non binary" like as a rejection of gender as a social construct, is that there deal?
This and tangential nonsense is basically why I increasingly specify I'm bigender. Cause most of the time people will post things online about being non-binary or non-binary people that I find unrelatable or it's just all really vague and then lots of weird beliefs regarding gender. But bigender is older (people were using it in the 90s,) and more specific so ends up having more use to me including newer stuff occasionally on eg: tumblr as opposed to whatever I stumble on on reddit and twitter ever.
I'm trying to understand the historical legacy that kind of made sense to me prior to and including people around my age and how we got to the point we're at now where everything is useless and obfuscating prob because of political backlash to some extent. People won't talk about certain topics I think.
Terrible labels but at least way clearer than anything anyone is doing now lol (I can tell this website has been modernised a bit though):
Personally I never used this label though did stumble on it sometime around 2016 or something (I discovered other language before this but the phenonmenon described later on is fairly adj to my own.) This is terribly politically incorrect and we're all evil fetishists but god I miss the simplicity. It also used to be easier to find similar experiences I think.Girlf*gs are (more or less) female identified people who feel like gay men. Most girlf*gs were assigned female at birth. They are attracted to gay/bi/queer men and gay-male sexuality but are not limited to this and can be attracted to more types of people and genders. Many girlf*gs dream of being in a relationship with a man ? as a man. Girlf*gs are often interested in sexual practices associated with gay-male sex and/or in polyamorous (not necessarily sexual) relationships with gay/bisexual couples. Girlfags are often non-binary which means they identify as neither male nor female, but as something in between, both or something else. Girlf*gs can identify as cisgender, (cis)genderfluid, transgender or genderqueer.
One way of understanding this identity is that girlf*gs are sufficiently "in between" the categories of gay and straight, cis and trans: not to call themselves straight cis women or gay trans men, although the identification as girlf*g can be a kind of "interstage" for some gay trans men.
Lol I'm like trying to find stuff from tumblr and just getting distracted by gifs:
Omfg I have not seen these before need video:
Uh anyway. From 1991:
https://journalofpositivesexuality.o...-Carlstrom.pdfPersonally, I have never felt like a "masculine woman," but there has always been a "male" side of me. Sometimes I feel like a mixture of both genders, but when my feelings are more separate (and they often are) there is a definite difference in my basic energy vibration. Most of the time, my clothes and personal gender perception are in harmony, but I have occasionally found myself feeling like a "drag queen'' walking down the street in a dress, or feeling decidedly female after doing a complete cross (tm) dress transformation with mustache. This is usually more obvious to myself than to others, as I become more aware of how I project and how I feel inside.
I had troubles to identify as something other than cis-female because I thought I had to be masculine, but yeah, I discovered that my femininity is not necessarily, um?a female thing. It's also kind of, yeah? Sometimes I feel like a drag queen when I dress up, so it's not necessarily a cis-female thing. So, this is why I identify as bi-gender and present [as] feminine. (GF28 )Another girlf*g explains the feeling of drag by further emphasizing that her femininity is not related to her sex: "I knew that my femme wasn't about cis-femininity -- before I found [the girlf*g] community and language, I would compare myself to a drag queen"(GF43). In the same way, this could be seen as a subversive act but expressed within the framework of the heterosexual matrix described by Butler (1990), thus reinforcing it.The sense of drag when presenting one's body could be seen as a coping strategy, a mental persuasion, where the positive act of drag hides the true identity of the respondents. To be seen in drag and to be perceived as, for example, a woman when you identify as a girlf"g, but at the same time actively thinking of it as drag, could be seen as an act of coping when one's body does not align with one?s identity.All of the participants expressed thoughts about sex, sexual fantasies, or sexual activities that align with the stereotypical role of the so-called other gender. Girlfags mostly express a need to dominate, to top and be in control, and in some ways, to objectify the male body they are engaging with. For some, these needs are not in line with their partner's wishes, but for others these roles suit the partner. Very few actually have experiences of being in relationships with gay-identified people of another gender. A dominant girlf*g gives an example of her life with her gay-identified husband: "Along with my partner being a bottom and me being a top. So with a little imagination, some prosthetics, and creativity, we are still together" (GF55). Some respondents play on gender by their partners referring to them as, for example, male or wanting them to call their body parts something else. This help them feel connected with their identity, another girlf*g expressed, "Yes, well, I kind of like it when my girlfriend calls me a boy during sexual situations. It doesn't happen often, but I like it. And yeah, it does something with me" (GF28 ). Contrary to girlf*gs' wish to dominate, among other things, the participating guyd*kes emphasize the importance of sex on equal terms where no one dominates, but instead everyone shows care and respect for each otherI did not know how to flirt in a female role. I also loathed to behave like a typical woman. I wanted the guy to react like a girl, also to look like a girl, yet to be male, not transvestite/transgender. I wanted him to be shy. (GF69)As stated, when discussing gender sexual roleplaying and sexual practices, the participating girlf*gs had more issues regarding their physical body than the participating guydy*es. They describe the explicit desire to have a male body and specifically a penis in sexual situations, both in partnered and non-partnered sex. Some girlf*gs express their wishes and fantasies of having a penis with a focus on the physical sexual sensations they want to experience.For some respondents, the wish for a penis seems to be a significant part of their girlf*g identity and sexuality. In other areas of life and also sometimes sexually, the respondents describe themselves as mostly comfortable with their female bodies, but the common yearning for a penis seems to connect the girlf*gs in their identity.Six of the participating girlf*gs identify as bisexual or pansexual, although none of the guyd*kes identify with anything other than monosexual labels, such as 'man' and 'lesbian'. Similarly, a small
generational difference showed in the results, where older participants were more inclined to use monosexual labels than the younger participants, who mainly use plurisexual labels. This could signify a more essentialist view of sexual orientation for the older generation. This aligns with research by Schei Jessen (2017) showing that other LGBTQ+ people have changed towards a more social constructionist view of sexual orientation over the past generations."I never felt comfortable with the idea to ask for help in an LGBT space because I thought that they would laugh about me or that they don?t take me serious [sic]" (GF27). This is alarming because it describes an LGBTQ+ person's exclusion from a sexual minority community, which only leads to the risk of more vulnerability. Despite this, several of the respondents brought up positive personal experiences after having explained the identities to gay and [BEEP] people without being judged. This led to feelings of relief and acceptance, with hope for the futureNow people as I say tend to be very vague and come out with these scripted vague statements. Don't discuss various topics much. Lots of arguing/debate about various things. Insane ideological views.Based on the narratives of eleven respondents, the identities of girlf*gs and guydy*es seem to fall in between categories. They could be considered a [BEEP] identity but are seemingly too straight for queer. At the same time, they provoke by using a binary concept when describing gender/sex identity. From these few voices and ample descriptions from the community, we can draw that girlf*gs and guydy*es identify with each other, as the same phenomena. It is claimed to be a mainly romantic and sexual identity, although evidently existing on the trans spectrum, judging from the stories told. Few identities can claim to unify a (trans)gender identity with a sexual orientation; however, the identity labels of girlf*gs and guydy*es are contradictory and confusing yet also strikingly clear, resulting in an arena for people where none existed before
Trying not to be an old person. Suceeding in the sense that reblogging endless gifs of rockstars is a very teenage behaviour.
The impulse is pure
Sometimes our circuits get shorted
By external interference
Signals get crossed
And the balance distorted
By internal incoherence
A tired mind become a shape-shifter
Everybody need a mood lifter
Everybody need reverse polarity
Everybody got mixed feelings
About the function and the form
Everybody got to deviate
From the norm
How do we reckon they decide on the results of the Russian elections? I mean, count the results of all ballots cast. Im sure its totally legit
Do they -
A) pick a number between 51 and 100 put of a hat?
B) go with vibes, 88.48% feels good.
C) ask a neighbour to come up with a number.
D) just get a random number generator and refresh it enough until it gets a number high enough.
I'M GONNA FIGHT 'EM ALL
A SEVEN NATION ARMY COULDN'T HOLD ME BACK.......
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