I hear you. I know there's no absolute and that churches have their awesome people and their judgey people just like the rest of society. I guess we put them on a higher pedestal to not be judgey or something?Rawr
I've gotten to where when people say something judgmental to me while using bible verses...............well, I just answer..............God likes me, so that's ok if you don't.
The Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about
Good one! & true... Well I don't really expect them to not be judgmental. It's like anywhere I go pretty much I'm anxious of people in general. I just have my specifics about why I'm anxious in those certain environments.
Yeah, I understand that. I was trying to explain to someone tonight, that I only get frustrated when I'm triggered and it doesn't necessary have to have anything to do with that's going on. I can be ok with one thing and then be really anxious with the exact same thing. So I understand.
The Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about
I have three words to say on this topic.
F*** the church.
Those three words are not appreciated. I asked in my original post that this not be a debate. I find your post not even close to the topic. Even though I voiced my fear of going to church, I did not ask for a discussion about a belief in God which seems to be what you're aiming at here. I know you recently had a bad experience with a church or your faith. I just don't appreciate you coming here and saying that just as much as you wouldn't appreciate me going after your post about your struggle with a church, saying, "fuck people who hate the church."
Maybe you can start your own thread called "fuck the church" and bash whomever you want to your hearts content. I do remember somewhere in the guidelines that attacking someone's religion, race, sex, etc was a no-no around here.
The Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about
Tell me I'm out of line when the church stops harassing everyone and damning them to hell that actually gives a damn about their fellow human beings, the ones who kick others when they're down and out while worshipping the cruel and the rich.
Oh, but I'm out of line, not the ones who buy our political elections and tell us how wrong we are on Faux News because our minimum wage is nearing third-world status, telling us that we just aren't blessed by God enough because we're poor as shit. I'm the one out of line, but the pastor who tried to cut me off from my two best friends and my parents who emotionally abuse me every chance they get, even when my girl is around are a-ok. I'm the one out of line, but the Church who is on a constant attack on the LGBT, non-Christian, and gaming communities praying for their suicides every day are a-ok.
I guess that's the beauty of Christian privilege.
There is nothing to debate here and I'm not debating or insulting you, in case you were wondering. I care less what people's beliefs are. Pretty sure there's a few good religious Christian people in this world (almost all of them would be more spiritual than religious though), but I'm tired of pretending like they are the rule when they are actually the exception. I'm just calling it like I see it.
I'm not telling you that you are out of line for your beliefs. You have a right to your beliefs.
I'm telling you that you are out of line for posting your own agenda in this thread. If I wanted any kind of bashing of people, I would have titled it............"Anyone else with a fear of church people and if so, let's bash the [BEEP] outta them because they hurt me." THEN you would have been in line to come and bash people.
Again, if you want to start your own thread on how much you hate a portion of the human race, go for it. In fact, I can refer you to an entire site that will be more than happy to oblige you. I just don't want this thread to go down the toilet. There's actually mature discussion here.
Now if you would like to join the discussion and not make a blanket statement that assumes that "all" Christians are this or that, then go for it. If you say that you were hurt and give specific ways that you were hurt, go for it. But making statements that "all" churches or "Christian people" are bad, wrong (insert insult) isn't helping anyone.
I get it. You were hurt. How specifically were you hurt and by whom? You obviously don't know the entire world and therefore making judgment on the entire world is a pretty closed thing.
And hey..............."I'm just calling it like I see it." Which btw, doesn't negate the "out of line" rampage.
Again, I would be more than happy to see you start your own religion bashing thread and stay out of this one. I would like to not have this thread moved to debate because one person doesn't know how to play nice with others.
The Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about
It wouldn't be a bad idea. I might consider it in the future but it's probably more suited for the politics forum.
No, really, I'm not joking. It wouldn't be a spirituality issue more than it is a political or current events one. :/
But I wanted to explain that my feelings are that to an extreme. Very extreme. Unabashedly very extreme. There really wasn't any other way I can explain it without looking like a goofball.
Ok, first of all, you don't look like a goofball. You're judging yourself harshly.
And I get it big time about being so angry that you just want to blow up the world. I have also been hurt by people in churches, so I understand. I've not been hurt at the extreme that you were and so I can't relate to how awful that would be. But I hear you. And you have every right to be angry. Churches and church people, as well as just people in general can do a number on destroying someone's life. I mean, I've read of young people getting thrown out of their church by a pastor and then shunned by his family, wife, etc. It's awful and I don't doubt the people who were hurt, want to destroy "all religions" because of it. When your life is hurt so badly by people who are supposed to love you, it can seem like the end of the road.
So know that I'm not faulting you on your feelings and you have a right to be very very angry. I wish people would realize how much they hurt others with their ignorance and selfishness. Or their "rules."
So can I ask you a question? And you definitely don't have to answer because I know it's pretty personal. Were you a part of that church your entire life? And if so, are you being mistreated since you decided to leave?
Also..............I apologize for my sarcasm. I'll remove it.
The Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about
Actually, I also am extra angry that the Republicans retook Congress. After hearing for years that the nightmare was going to eventually be over if the Democrats continued to gain power (pfft, yeah right, but whatever, we'll go with it) the nightmare is only going to continue.
I was a part of Evangelicalism from the moment I was born. I broke away once and I tried to be on the spiritual/neutral side for years but once the Crohn's Disease was diagnosed, and certain people in my life used it as an opportunity to change me into something they deem more "acceptable" for their society, I realized that the core of the hatred lies in the belief itself, not in just specific people, which is why I mention that there could be a few good Christians, but they are the exception not the rule.
And I think some religions are meh. Buddhism being one of them where the people there are mostly peaceful, and yeah, Islam overall is physically more threatening than Christianity but no one causes more psychological mindfuckery than the Religious Right. I still get nightmares over it some nights. Thankfully not the last two weeks, but since I won't see my girl for the next four months, I dunno if they will continue or not.
Religious belief is one of my hobbies. Well, I guess human behavior and how religious belief plays into it, is what fascinates me. So I've done a ton of research into many religions and their beliefs..........Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, the Islamic faith, Mormonism, etc. I wanted to see what fundamental beliefs each religion holds to. I was amazed that even in the same religion, different Islamic Temples, different physical churches or different sects of the same religion could be vastly different in their belief system. Some are more structured than others. The ones who seem very structured like Catholicism and Mormonism, worked under a strict rule system. Some of the Fellowship churches I visited, seemed to be run mainly by what the pastor believed or his/her interpretation of the bible. They were only a small fraction of the various churches out there. I was amazed that there were also some religions who seemed democratic and were guided by a board of church elders and the congregation. In other words, I've not found any set ways to determine who or what a religion is or what they represent. I guess because they are made up of people and those people seem to guide the general flair of what will go on in that building.
Just wanted to let you know how I stand on religions in general.
As for your church................what did they do when your Crohn's Disease was diagnosed? I've heard of religions blaming people for getting sick. I hope they didn't do that to you.
I also agree that religion can be easily used by people without good intentions to twist the rules to their own personal beliefs. Especially if they are in power like a pastor or voting elders. Sadly, sometimes people in power let that privilege go to their head and they become prideful, arrogant and power hungry. They can also delusionally believe that their values should be the values of everyone around them. Hence churches like Westboro Baptist Church arises where the members go out of their way to protest people who don't have their same exact belief.
I have a strong relationship with God, but am not attached to any religion. I think the fear I have of churches is "organized mindset." What I've seen in my personal experience, is that when a group of people believe the same thing, it can actually resemble mob thought. When people are in a mob, it is easy to bully others around. They seem to get confidence or something that they are right and forget compassion. They forget how non-believers can get turned off with a lot of bible quoting. They also get very frustrated with non-believers. They literally do the exact opposite from helping the "closer to God" cause. I've heard a couple of religious people in my life say, "The bible says that it's a sin," but never once giving thought to special circumstances. They close their eyes to the gay person whose faith is ten times more genuine than the person in the front row who gossips or treats his workers poorly.
So yes, I can see how organized religion can be the cause of problems. And again, people make up religions.
Just to give you an example............I work in a library. I gathered all 38 churches in our community and emailed them. I wanted to open a patnership where we just let each other know what upcoming programs were happening. Often one of our libraries or parks or large churches have events on the same exact day, thus making the families in our communities choose between programs. If we let each other know well in advance what was going on, we could try to avoid duplicating programs or competing days and times. In theory, it was supposed to be beneficial to the children of our community.
Out of 38 churches, 3 responded. One of them was the Islamic Community.
I had to laugh. I said, "Well, I'm sure God's been trying to get churches to agree on a few things, so I was pretty pretentious to think I could do what God can not." It's those darn people! They're so paranoid. Possessive. And downright stubborn.
The Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about
I don't despise religion. I have an issue with the Christian and to an extent, Muslim religions, and even then only on the more conservative/fundamentalist sides of them. The Christian religion, especially the ones that I was so heavily influenced by, are just evil of the most wretched kind. I despise them as human beings. I used to be able to just live and let live, but after my illness and what had happened to me, I even have a hard time dealing with my family who are a lighter version of these sickos let alone one of them online.
One time one of those "true Christians" threatened to shoot me and a friend down in a polling place with a shotgun he had in the back of his truck for getting in the way of them intimidating a couple Hispanic voters. I told them come bring that shotgun and let's see how tough you really are. Security came in to break it up before things got worse.
Even worse than that, I have several dozen of them praying for me to kill myself to this day.
So yeah, when I say "Fuck the church." I really mean it. I don't believe they are just bad apples. This is the core teaching of their religion. Others' suffering is their gain. Others' pleasure is their suffering. We have to bend to their will, not the other way around, or there will be consequences. God commands it. They have 'dominion' after all. I dealt with those consequences my whole life. The only difference is I refuse to simply sit there, take it, and say "Please sir, may I have another?" anymore. They'll have to earn their way to beat me to death.
I can see where the people of that church screwed you over big time. I'm sorry you went through that.
I've been fortunate to find some really awesome people in churches who became life-long friends. I've also had some people in churches judge me and tell me "God told them that I was an abomination." It would be nice if those judgmental people understood the damage they did to people. They say they want to bring people to church, but their behavior makes life long haters of the churches and God.
My ex-husband married a woman who went to church regularly. She was always drunk, said mean things to my kids and told me at my son's wedding, "Have fun being single the rest of your life." My kids saw church as a bad thing because of her. Then my ex-husband "converted" to her religion and in the same week was telling my daughter, "Why do you love your mother? Don't you know she's crazy?"
I have a strong belief and relationship with God. But I don't tell others to believe or go to church. I just try to show my kids compassion, honesty and hope. I feel God has been a part of my life and I feel very blessed.
I also think those who hurt others, especially in the name of God, will have to answer for their cruelty when they die.
Religion "can" be a breeding ground for self righteous people. That's probably why I don't trust the people in churches very much. But I have found some really awesome people there also.
I know being raised in that judgmental environment had to have been very abusive. I've heard that people actually get PTSD from being brought up in too strict religions. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
The Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about
Lucky.
I find only two types of people in Church. But the ones who are cruel are usually the ones most rock-solid in their faith. The ones that are actually kind constantly have their faith questioned, which was how the basis of my theory about Christians as of August came about. I dunno why but the few decent Christians I have met usually don't stay Christians for very long or are always, as one fanatic would call it "on the fence". I THOUGHT there were a few nice Christians rock-solid in their faith but I learned the hard way that they eventually show their true colors in time.
I have a strong belief and relationship with God. But I don't tell others to believe or go to church. I just try to show my kids compassion, honesty and hope. I feel God has been a part of my life and I feel very blessed.
I think they will be rewarded, as God promised, with ten crowns on their head. While the people who actually gave a [BEEP] about their fellow man will wind up in hell, sadly enough. That is what their religion teaches. God before man. The ends justify the means. Do whatever you have to do to keep God first in your (and others') lives.I also think those who hurt others, especially in the name of God, will have to answer for their cruelty when they die.
I actually have been diagnosed with PTSD from all that which is much of the reason why my mother hates me for it. She has strongarmed doctors to temporarily getting rid of my PTSD and Asperger's conditions because, as she puts it "My son is not a cuckoo! He's just a liar!"Religion "can" be a breeding ground for self righteous people. That's probably why I don't trust the people in churches very much. But I have found some really awesome people there also.
I know being raised in that judgmental environment had to have been very abusive. I've heard that people actually get PTSD from being brought up in too strict religions. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
(I just want to explain where I'm coming from. I'm not debating your beliefs at all. You have every right to believe the way you do considering your past experiences with church people). Hence my explanation at the bottom about why I believe.
Have you met many people outside your particular church? I don't mean your faith, but your physical church? I'm not being flippant. I'm just wondering if you were able to visit other churches or if you were forced to do everything in your own church.
Just wanted to say that the God I know gets very upset when someone hurts one of his children. I don't know what the ten crowns are about, but my only king is God. So I won't be wearing a crown.
I believe I saw heaven one time in a dream. My sister-in-law died in a jet ski accident. I felt very guilty because she often told me I kept her brother from her.
In the dream, I was outside a house. I went into the house and went upstairs. We were in a bedroom. A cat I lost was sitting on the bed. I was thrilled that I saw Pooch. My sister-in-law said, "No, look out the window." I saw rolling hills with trees on both sides and flowers running down the hills. There was a blinding yellow light in the middle which obscured the scenery.
But it wasn't what I saw. It was what I felt. For that brief instant I felt utter peace. It was something I had never felt before or after. Then I was outside the house. My sister-in-law said, "You don't have to feel guilty. Look where I am. I'm in heaven."
Then I woke up.
I know two other people who witnessed the same thing I witnessed. Without me telling them about my dream, they told me of their near death experiences. They described rolling hills with a yellow/white light. Then they said, "It wasn't what I saw. It was what I felt. Absolute peace. I'd never felt that before, nor since."
One of these people died for a longer time. She met in heaven her grandmother and her grandchild. But she didn't have any grandchildren at the time. She was told by her grandmother that time is different in heaven. What's a lifetime here on earth is only a moment in heaven.
My point is that I saw no ten crowns. I saw no righteous or holier than thou people. I saw my sister-in-law who had trouble believing in God there. My friend saw her grandmother who attended church sometimes, but who tried to be good to others. She also saw her granddaughter who ended up being a missionary. So all types of people were there.
What I do remember most is that utter peace. It's what made me walk toward finding a God. If heaven is like that, I want that. But I'm comforted to know that I don't have to do anything to get there.
I try to not focus on people at all when it comes to my belief in God. People can suck big time and will drive you away from anything God-related if you give them enough time. I'm glad I decided to not depend on people to help me find that God relationship.
I feel like that dream was a gift. At the time of the dream I did not believe in a God nor in heaven. So if God reaches out to people who don't care, don't trust, don't even want to know..................then that's good enough for me.
Religion or Cult PTSD is fairly common. It can be caused by prolonged stress and if religion was used against you or you even got punished due to religion, it can most certainly cause PTSD. It sounds like your mother is the crazy one..............and the liar.
The Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about
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