Mass Shooting in Connecticut

[WineKitty]

I am sure I don't need to post any links regarding this--tons of stories all over the media and we all followed this story yesterday I am sure.

There has been much talk about gun control. I wish I could be of the camp that thought by merely adding some legislation or banning certain types of weapons would stop the mass shootings that are seemingly on the rise.

Don't get me wrong--I am not a fan of guns really. I do own a shot gun. I think the gun show loopholes should be dealt with. Everyone should undergo a background check.

But gun control wasn't the problem here. The problems are multifaceted.

What I don't hear anyone talking about is mental health and how we choose to ignore the need for people having easy access to services. Rather we claim we cannot afford it...get insurance...it's everyone for themselves. Even WITH insurance (and I have good insurance) I have a limit of 20 counseling sessions per year with a copay.

This kid was one troubled and dangerously sick person. Maybe the signs were there and were ignored and maybe not. I don't know--the details of Adam Lanska are still quite minimal.

But it seems to me that if we admit the failures in our society that are leading up to these events we might have a chance to prevent some of these tragedies. Instead of waving our flag and proclaiming ourselves the best nation in the world (we aren't--no such thing) based on our military might, we need to focus on our clearly flawed society. There are too many getting lost in the shuffle, too many poor kids that society doesn't care about, too many mentally ill going unchecked because they cannot get the help they need.

There has been a fundamental shift in gun violence since somewhere around the 80s. Mass shootings are on the rise and now have reached kindergarten classrooms. When are we going to address the true roots of these issues rather than blame Obama, school security, gun control or whatever else.

[T-Bone]

Doesn't everyone who wants to purchase a gun already go through the process of a background check? Criminal anyways? Well i take that back, gunshow dealers have a reputation of not giving a damned. I suppose they could do away with those. I don't feel them to be a necessity anyways.
Anyways..do you suggest searching through everyone's medical records as well? I feel that would be a huge invasion of privacy. Some people even suggest a mental evaluation before anyone buys a gun, that would be total nonsense and have a high probability of error and wrongful discrimination.

[CeCe]

People need to be evaluated (phyical and mental) with a much longer wait processes before being able to buy a gun.

[WineKitty]

Hmmm...not sure where I suggested going through people's medical records. A background check consists of a criminal checkwhen it comes to guns..doesn't it? And no... not everyone does get a background check. I in no way suggest banning guns or think something as simple as more gun laws would stop mass shootings. Again, I think the problems run far deeper than that. I see the issue of people not getting help the need in a society that doesn't care about it's people enough to provide mental health care. Our society puts health care and education last. I think it's rather simplistic to say more gun control...armed teachers...metal detectors would have prevented the tragedy. If it were only that simple. Our priorities aren't about our people and caring for our society as a whole. And as We let those priorities fall to last place our nation begins to implode from within. The fall of America will cone not from a foreign enemy but from within. And I believe it had already started.

A waiting period has nothing to do with this tragedy, though I am not in opposition of it...not sure how much it helps either. Guns used were legally purchased. We cannot ban and legislate our way into being safe.

[WintersTale]

The only thing that troubles me about the mentally sick being evaluated, is that I am mentally ill. And I also feel awkward about it. So I would be opening myself up to background checks, being questioned by police (and the police scare me), and feeling like I'm personally being targeted.

But, you know what? Even with a social anxiety disorder that I have, I would be willing to go through all that, if it would make the world a safer place.

If this 20 year old man had been questioned, before yesterday when he went crazy, maybe this would not have happened. Let's throw out the easy access to guns for a moment...we need to evaluate, why it is exactly, that mentally ill people are not being treated for their mental illnesses? Medications for bipolar and ADHD seem to be handed out like candy to kids who obviously aren't mentally sick and don't need them...why are they not being provided for the few who actually do need them?

I did some sick stuff when I was manic. I might have possibly committed a crime, if I hadn't gotten well. This kid might still be alive today, and be helping society instead of hurting it, like he did yesterday.

[T-Bone]

Hmmm...not sure where I suggested going through people's medical records. A background check consists of a criminal checkwhen it comes to guns..doesn't it? And no... not everyone does get a background check. I in no way suggest banning guns or think something as simple as more gun laws would stop mass shootings. Again, I think the problems run far deeper than that. I see the issue of people not getting help the need in a society that doesn't care about it's people enough to provide mental health care. Our society puts health care and education last. I think it's rather simplistic to say more gun control...armed teachers...metal detectors would have prevented the tragedy. If it were only that simple. Our priorities aren't about our people and caring for our society as a whole. And as We let those priorities fall to last place our nation begins to implode from within. The fall of America will cone not from a foreign enemy but from within. And I believe it had already started.

A waiting period has nothing to do with this tragedy, though I am not in opposition of it...not sure how much it helps either. Guns used were legally purchased. We cannot ban and legislate our way into being safe.

I never said you did suggest getting into medical records. It was a question asking you for your opinion or for you to elaborate.
As for mental health. Isn't that something one pretty much has to seek out on his/her own? What would you suggest, going to each home, asking if they had a gun and then offering mental health counseling?

[WintersTale]

What would you suggest, going to each home, asking if they had a gun and then offering mental health counseling?

I wouldn't mind that. I have never tried to obtain a gun, either legally or illegally...have no reason to. And any mental health counseling that I can get would be wonderful, especially if the state pays for it.

[T-Bone]

I wouldn't mind that. I have never tried to obtain a gun, either legally or illegally...have no reason to. And any mental health counseling that I can get would be wonderful, especially if the state pays for it.

LOL well hell i might not mind it either. But the point is, that would be extremely expensive if it were government/tax dollar paid, also unrealistic. Not to mention, if it were NOT free to the people being offered, they'd most likely reject it anyhow.

[WintersTale]

LOL well hell i might not mind it either. But the point is, that would be extremely expensive if it were government/tax dollar paid, also unrealistic. Not to mention, if it were NOT free to the people being offered, they'd most likely reject it anyhow.

Which do you think the brother of the shooter would have preferred, as well as the Grandma:

A. That the shooter received mental health services, despite them paying for it, and 20 kids, as well as 6 other adults plus the shooter, would be alive today?
B. That everything transpired like it did yesterday?

Think carefully before you answer this question. It is NOT a trick question.

[T-Bone]

Which do you think the brother of the shooter would have preferred, as well as the Grandma:

A. That the shooter received mental health services, despite them paying for it, and 20 kids, as well as 6 other adults plus the shooter, would be alive today?
B. That everything transpired like it did yesterday?

Think carefully before you answer this question. It is NOT a trick question.

I'm sure they would have preferred option A.
There are things to take into consideration though. The shooter was over 18 therefore he could have easily rejected mental health services if he showed no obvious signs of being disturbed. The second thing to take into consideration, obviously, is DID he show obvious signs of being mentally disturbed? Also, are the guns even registered to him...etc.

[WineKitty]

I never said you did suggest getting into medical records.
As for mental health. Isn't that something one pretty much has to seek out on his/her own? What would you suggest, going to each home, asking if they had a gun and then offering mental health counseling?

I thought the standard background search meant for criminal/civil cases. Not one's health records.

Yes, seeking out counseling and such is self-initiated some times but as I stated in the OP, people cannot afford to get the care they need. Again, I will point out in my own case I am allowed a mere 20 counseling sessions annually (co pay of 25) which is reasonable but for someone who needs to really work on somethings, 20 sessions can be used up in a hurry. You are really taking what I am saying the wrong way, in that I am not suggesting going around on a witch hunt after anyone who needs counseling or mental health care but rather making those services readily available. Also, as family members and/or friends, we can try to be vigilant but it is hard, almost impossible, to know when to intervene. Being that this person was rather young, 20, it would seem he had some issues for some time and his own brother admitted they knew he had issues.

My entire point is that I am not sure how yesterday's tragedy could have been prevented. But, I do see that there is something going wrong with our society and that health care, mental health care needs, and education need to be a bigger priority in our country if we have any hope for our future.

[Coffee]

Morgan Freeman's statement about these shootings. I was with him up until the end. Gun control needs to be considered as much as mental health does.

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations , sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

On that note, here is a list of the victims: http://ktla.com/2012/12/15/medical-e...wtown-victims/

edit: wasn't Morgan Freeman who said it. I'm not sure who did.

[WintersTale]

I agree with everything that Morgan Freeman said in that statement.

And what is sad is people aren't going to listen to him. You know what my sister said? "They will try to rationalize, diagnose, and explain it all away, when it all boils down to one guy, who was sick in the head."

That is very true. We can point fingers at loners, Aspies, socially anxious people, whatever. There are people who are in those categories who are not violent at all. We can point fingers at horror films. I love horror films, and I don't like violence or blood in real life (I would probably pass out at a crime scene.) You can point fingers at video games or music, that is just as stupid as blaming horror films.

Let's point the finger at where it belongs: the guy who was severely mentally disturbed, didn't get help, and took his mother's weapons and used it to commit mass murder. It is nobody else's fault but his, and it was society's wrongdoing that we didn't discover it until after he snapped.

[Denise]

^ Amen. It's that simple. but humans love Complicated

[Coffee]

Yeah but the problem is that if we look at each of these as isolated incidents, we can't do anything about it. So we like to find patterns. We collect our data and propose theories and solutions that never really come to pass, but it makes us feel better to apply logic to a totally illogical situation.

I agree that we can't truly blame anyone but the shooter himself, but it is important to try to understand what happened so that we can try to reduce the possibility of it happening again. That probably won't work because there will always be crazy people in the world, but it's better than nothing, I guess.