Random Thought of the Day

[Nyctophilia]

^ I don't watch his show because his audience is honestly a much older demographic so the last time I was aware of him was when he was complaining about Twitch streamers lol. I don't watch streamers my brother does a lot, he's always been very into that. I'd guess it goes back to him watching me play games when we were kids (since he brought that up once.) I would never really watch him play and didn't like watching as much because I prefer playing (still do.) I do make video game content on YouTube though.



And uh now this lol:



And perhaps this circles back around to how Billie Joe talked about leaving the US and now seems to be hanging out in London bars. I like Bill Burr though. Like before and now.

Like he has a point there and also here:

As a CHILD when I first saw Titanic I laughed SO HARD when the guy bounced off the propellor in Titanic... and my father gave me the most HORRIFIED look as little 7-year-old me was giggling like a devil at the way some dude died. xD

I never laughed at anything in Titanic but I remember in class when I was 13-14 or so we watched a film of Macbeth and I laughed when:

Spoiler: His head got chopped off

I dunno why was just an automatic reaction. Maybe it just looked ridiculous because I don't normally find [BEEP] like that funny.

It's just terminal dad brain/old man yells at cloud brain though really. They've taken it to the nth degree. But for Elon Musk a lot of his rhetoric is also motivated by his desire to have workers to complete his various projects present and future. He wants workers for Mars and doesn't like that people aren't breeding. Honestly a lot of what he's complained about on twitter boils down to that. And he's a bit of a troll.

Also it does ruin comedy like the discussion ruins comedy. It frames the comedy in a certain way (which is absolutely not the point of comedy,) before you've heard whatever the joke is. Like Bill Maher bringing up his joke ruins it somewhat. It's also like with Dave Chappelle the initial joke he had about the LGBT+ community that everyone reacted to. I didn't think it was very clever or a great joke (on a scale from that terrible Rosanne what is a woman joke to the best comedian ever it was closer to Rosanne but better,) and he didn't seem to know much about what he was joking about and it helps to have some knowledge like when writing in general. But I also didn't care. It didn't offend me at all. So I actually think I defended him at the time but then he started to make his entire career about it and clearly wanted to push a political message and then did an entire stand up thing that was basically just talking about that one topic and like Hasan says not very funny. Like a lecture/TED talk. Referring to himself as 'team terf' at one point OK? I mean start telling jokes that are funny at some point and then we'll see.

I think the height of this was some comedian from the UK I'd never even heard of complaining about this in some media article that got shared around and it's like 'who even are you?' (I'm now being introduced to a comedian through them complaining about cancel culture instead of any of their work. Or even anyone complaining about them.) So at that point it's obviously just people who don't have much of career, probably aren't that talented in the first place and now they have this thing to complain about and blame for their lack of success. No it's the woke people not the fact that I'm a [BEEP] comedian. Lol.

A large part of this is being overly connected parasocially with your audience. That is actually a real problem of the modern era. I don't think it's a problem for comedians who work irl though or one they can't avoid. It's very much an issue to consider if you have a YouTube channel and part of your job is being parasocially available to your own audience. You should limit that as much as possible and don't talk about personal stuff too much. Never vlog. Ever. Just don't do it. Avoid the entire genre. Unless it's like making travel content or something where you never discuss or have your partners and relationships on camera and you just do very superficial stuff as removed from yourself as possible. Always make the focus of your content something outside yourself as much as possible. Don't make any drama content. Even then I've seen people get shit. It's going to happen. It's not even a political thing, it's just if you're famous people will envy you and try to tear you apart this is obvious. Otherwise it's pretty normal for some people to dislike you and have criticisms.

Oh and there are definitely progressive comedians who are terrible. I've seen clips but I don't generally seek them out so there's probably a lot of that.

And the whole media thing around this like 'I'm an edgy intellectual with my problematic opinions' is so tedious and the people who go along with these talking heads too. If you can find a bunch of really famous people saying the same things you believe your opinion on that topic is clearly not unusual or even outside of the overton window. If the white nationalists and anti-semitic people want to complain that they can't say what they think. I'd give them that they can't lol at least outside twitter - or if you live in America at a drag queen event protest evidently where you can find them at least vaguely referencing Jewish conspiracy theories and Weimar Germany and whatever. Waving nazi flags around etc - but the liberals? Or Elon Musk lol go away.

But also because [BEEP] people in particular or the 'alphabet mafia' are brought up a lot in this context because it's the current thing (they really need to stop making everyone they disagree with sound cool btw - social justice warrior, alphabet mafia, possessed by demons you got to do better,) most [BEEP] people don't care about you. You're just a comedian. They care about their fucking family member's opinions, the people they know irl, the people they argue with online and have some online social interaction with who say transphobic [BEEP] cause that happens (like they care about random online nobody's before you,) politicians - people who are making all these bills. The politicians discussing my existence in parliament - that's fucking trippy like imagine that lmfao:



I see so much stupid American [BEEP] too that it's always worse and also weirder when I hear stuff from the UK or people from the UK online cause it's actually my country and will have an impact so it's much more serious and I don't know what it is but they all seem worse too (and I think maybe it's not just me because Jordan Peterson praises the UK somewhat for being more transphobic so I'm probably onto something with it actually being objectively worse than some areas of North America outside the insane southern states of course.) It feels more real too. America is like a giant fake show like does America even exist? (Obviously it does but you know what I mean.) It's like when I hear Americans in london it's like 'oh my god this is trippy' and I don't have that with other accents but it's because they always sound a little different from the media I'm constantly exposed to when they're in real life.

Isn't this guy (Michael Knowles) just a bisexual actor? And he's silly. When he talks he doesn't seem to express emotions at all. Does he care about anything? One wonders:



Ben Shapiro is basically a cis-trans man. I mean. And perhaps he is trans. I don't know and it would be a great way to be stealth I suppose.

No wonder so many Americans are just like stuck on all these conspiracy theories that are basically like a form of dissociation where everyone's fake. I get that.

Who else? The people who are out there like aggressively protesting [BEEP] on the daily and getting funded to do so and getting tons of media attention (I care but even then intermittently and a lot of people prob don't care as well.) Preachers across America who are yelling about how all [BEEP] people should be killed - and tbf I actually find that entertaining when it's in religious form until it comes knocking on my door. Because it's just so larpy to me honestly but no they are actually quite serious in their hatred. But it's surreal you know. They just express it in the weirdest ways....

And personally Jordan Peterson. I've made many posts about him because he lies a lot like in my post yesterday. And also he's kind of like the anti-me and it's not a dislike of him mostly. I don't actually dislike/hate him but I am annoyed by the lying. I actually find it quite fascinating that we have kind of mirrored thought patterns it's like batman and joker or something. And on that Batman note he likes to talk about how nature is female as I brought up before and I'm like gender swapping Poison Ivy so the character is male or intersex Poison Ivy (so the gender varies in degree never quite making it to fully genetic female status,) and they're sometimes kind of king of the forest with long red hair and greenish skin and they're at war with civilisation and technology and mankind and then capturing Human guys who wander into the forest and having somewhat coercive sex with them using plants as well as part of the experience and converting them to forsake Humanity and things like that. Like it's just a sexual fantasy but actually very symbolic. Completely queering his entire theseis/Western canon 10+ years before I even knew he existed (and that's without going into all the chaos/dragon stuff that's also been a thing,) and he'd probably yell about post modernism deconstructing Western civilisation if he heard that but it feels quite instinctive to me. Also I do think he's more boring now since he joined The Daily Wire. He doesn't talk about any of that stuff even anymore. Now I just have to stumble on crazy Christian preachers but that's more formulaic/predictable too.

And I don't like Andrew Tate at all. While listing the famous people I personally have issues with. I ignored him for an insanely long time but it's less him that annoys me actually and more the impact I've seen him have on boys. He's obviously a narcissist though and I do think lots of people want to destroy him. So his perception on that more than others is probably accurate (despite his corny Matrix thing,) but I also don't think that we can allow narcissists to go unchecked influencing tons of people without any pushback and he is very influential so. I do think people should critique him if they feel like it.


Speaking of annoying people I was just watching this compilation video of tiktoks and is that Abigail Shrier lol (timestamp from this video) she sounds like she's doing the opening of Knives and Pens by Black Veil Brides lol.

Checkout these young teenagers who suddenly decide they're transgender. They immediately cut off their families. They very often drop out of school. They very often start tattooing themselves and using drugs and they are creating a world for themselves that is so 'healthy,' so built around sexuality. They lose all their hobbies, their only hobby is being transgender.

In looking at young people involved in the occult do you see any particular type of dress? I have personally observed people wearing black fingernails, having their hair painted black. Wearing black t-shirts. Sometimes they will tattoo themselves.

xD

It happens when you're in an environment that completely suppresses you while simultaneously constantly demonising you. And also when people write creepy books with cover photos of a girl with her womb cut out Abigail:



This is actually a special interest for me and even I have other interests/hobbies lol. Music and video games. JP connects the two as well:





There isn't a clip of the whole thing on YouTube now without commentary but the larger context clipped out is that he's talking about genderfluid people lol. I posted this before anyway.



Honestly wish I was as creative as he makes out. I think it's very important for humanity but I'm minimally creative really. I'd say 3/10. And I say this as someone who very much is the meme lol. Dyed my hair unnatural colours for years. To the point where 2 guys I know asked me to dye their hair. That was before I came out lol. Which is funny because it's like I preemptively/instinctively was like 'nope avoiding the stereotype' but it's actually just that it was a lot of work. I have very dark hair naturally so also had to bleach it regularly, and the hair dye would never last long before fading, and I lost interest. Now and then I get the desire to dye it again like I wanted to dye parts of it green a while ago but it is again a lot of effort.

Also I still can't get over the part where Jordan Peterson is so allergic to the word that he says (while talking about various glam rockers) 'they weren't exactly androgynous that's not the correct word. It's more that they manifested a higher order integration of the masculine and feminine' and I know why he's allergic to the word (he has to 'control' certain concepts and create boundaries to keep it safe from they/them, well and to keep himself safe imo because he recognises that he's not that masculine himself, but he doesn't have to worry because yes of course you're a man otherwise you wouldn't be defending that so hard to the point you force other people into the binary,) but it's hilarious that he agreed Prince is an example when he put this into his fucking lyrics haha:

I'm not a woman
I'm not a man
I am something that you'll never understand

And he didn't get away with it like Mick Jagger (another example he used) either (probably because of his race and height):

The crowd began booing and shouting racist and homophobic epithets. Prince tried to adapt, injecting more rock into the performance. But before long, trash, food, and bottles were being hurled onto the stage. The artist remembers looking out at the audience and zeroing in on one man near the front with "hatred all over his face."

After submitting to the abuse for several songs, Prince had had enough. Mick Jagger and others tried to persuade the artist to give it another try and he reluctantly came back for one more show, but again was met with intense hostility. This time he flew back to Minneapolis and refused to open for the Stones again.

God it's just the same thing over and over and over and over every generation too actually. And it seems to be one of many things that is fucked about Western society. It started with Christianity imo. It tried to suppress androgyny and didn't build it into the culture in the way that other cultures have done (that's why many have multiple genders,) and so this fight continues on but I do think it's almost over socially (which is why it's so loud now.) And with improved technology it definitely will be. Like at the point where the cost to medically transitioning is greatly reduced or nullified entirely no one will care. Like changing an avatar online. And since more people have moved online and live virtually sex also holds less importance now. (Sex as in the physical but also sex as in the act lol both.) Which of course conservatives hate.

[Heelsbythebridge]

A rising tide lifts all ships

[Otherside]

Kid who broke into someone's house for tiktok views doing the round. Mind you, less breaking in and more just walking in.

To be honest, think it's amazing he just got told to leave. Pick the wrong house, you will get attacked for doing that. Mind you, I imagine that's why he picked a house in Zone 1-3. Might not have been the correct assumption. Lot of the oligarchs in zone 1. Do not think walking into one of those homes would have been wise.

Amazing seeing people defend this guy. He walked into someone's house, for tiktok views. Thought that this "prank" was a wonderful thing to do for tiktok views. However many other "tiktok pranks" he has done, he has had not consequences from. Stealing someone's dog, stalking a hat from an orthodox Jewish person, and there has been no consequences, so it has escalated to this. Should be an easy one for the police, pretty much handed them the evidence on a silver platter. We will see if they do anything.

[Nyctophilia]

@Otherside

There's been a bunch of people doing really dumb or even sociopathic things on tiktok for views and generally acting like they're the main character in a video game or something and very emotionally detached. One person just live recorded someone's murder in Vancouver. Initially he thought they were just fighting supposedly but going over to livestream a fight for content is also messed up. This guy was just being stabbed to death in front of his 2(?) year old daughter by a guy who he'd asked to stop vaping in front of her (which was already insane enough,) and then this guy from tiktok decided to stand around recording it. Supposedly he was smiling but I have not watched it, only heard about it second hand and then read an article.

[Nyctophilia]

Why do you all look like this?

[collage someone has collected of female shooters/killers etc with long brown hair and glasses]

femcel phenotype

i want genderbend riddle to choke me

I have dark blonde and curly hair, it's over, not even close to based schizo lainpilled femcel

'Lainpilled' though. 😂

It has a great opening track. Obviously I had to post this.



That's the full track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uoox9fpmDP0

Aesthetic goals. The Western femcel/criminal look is the equivalent of the Japanese leftist terrorist who executes her own comrades before ending up in a hostage situation with the police and eventually sentenced to death/orchestrating the mass murder of civilians at an airport in Tel Aviv and watching your possible boyfriend flee to the Philippines.

Even Nagata's own wiki article basically calls her a femcel.

Could transition have saved him

Hiroyuki would be the kind of guy who is a dorky pharmacist who wears military surplus jackets with strange patches on them and when you buy from him he always makes you have a smoke while he asks you if you've listened to the latest episode of whatever the Japanese equivalent of Chapo Trap House/Cum Town etc. is.

What does this even mean? They collected all female murderers who had glasses?

Not all of them are murderers, upper left just took Pelosis laptop on 1/6

They're all just criminals with glasses, meant to attract the hybristophile

most female criminals look like that I guess, and most trans women have to do crimes to survive

Great.



Lol how does 4tran do this? Like first of all wtf the long brown hair and glasses thing is my current fetish. Find the most basic [BEEP] and turn it into a hybristophilia thing again. 😂 For some reason they're claiming long brown hair and glasses is a trans woman thing too lol. I haven't seen this. (Besides Ethel Cain but even then she's changed her look lately.) All the people in the original collage are cis women I think.

But I guess they're not wrong about the femcel thing since I also have glasses and long brown hair if I don't cut it and I never have sex. No bangs/fringe though. My features are too soft to be my own type (not sure that's it cause I did find that riddler pic kinda attractive before, probably just don't find myself attractive,) and most of my incel status is just because I'm insanely picky. Which isn't the same. I get lonely and bored but the loneliness is very muted and occasional. I do miss specific people though. It's not really this constant existential excruciating pain/nightmare that incels seem to feel about being single. I think I'm too schizoid for that level of pain. My lifestyle would absolutely drive most people to extreme depression.

white people all look the same

Mostly true though. There are 10 face templates or something. It's like The Sims. (One of the early games.) But also at least two of the photos are Asian women lol....

Well I'll be back in 1-2 months when I get bored again as it's the only place with transfemmes posting about afab non-binary people (and I'm a narcissist) and trans men (besides like 3 trans women on twitter that post that stuff barely ever,) in a way that isn't mostly forced feminisation/detrans fetish stuff. Except when it's worse. And I'll continue to ignore all the insulting 'theyfab' posts... Lol.

If theyfabs aren't really trans then why does this one have male autism? Checkmate Joe LIEberal

1. not a real post. Clearly some weird fanfic/larp

2. "male autism"

3. 'Wtf is my life' I was just thinking that while reading this sub hahahaha.

This sub has really gone downhill

Oh?

Downhill from where? We're already in hell.

Why is it that so many theyfabs want detransitioned AMAB/twinkhon asthetics? Is it really peak asthetic?

It's because they're copioid ftms and they want to look AMAB and twinkhons are both visibly amab but also androgynous enough that they can convince themselves it's plausible for them when they can't imagine passing as a cis man.

Yes most afab nbs want to look amab, but no it's not cope because very cis masculine aesthetics/body types are unappealing to most non-binary people (regardless of sex,) and this is the peak aesthetic (for now) obviously:



(How many times am I going to post this band? Yes.)

It's androgynous but I don't think that's the look they're talking about because the music video is more masculine than that. (I think, can't keep track.) There are also a bunch of trans guys even that want to look like femboys (I really don't,) and we've reinvented 'twink' to mean any straight hetero/bisexual-coded skinny/slim-fit guy that a lot of afab people relate to/aspires to be/wants to [BEEP] like Loki, or maybe Timothee Chalamet (so young Tom Hiddleston 2.0. Guess he brought this on himself by being in that one film,) not necessarily a very feminine homosexual guy that a cishet man might consider having sex with (apart from the part where some of them apparently wanted to have sex with contrapoints during her crossdressing era and she never seemed like a very feminine homosexual guy but most cishet people can't tell the difference anyway so what am I doing,) so I really don't know where the boundaries for these terms are anymore. 'Hon' masculinises 'twink' more in my brain though so you end up with 'conventionally attractive [BEEP] trans women aesthetic' moreso than pre-trans straight trans woman living as a homosexual man, but I dunno if they use it that way. WHY ARE WE DOING THIS? I have to know though so I can figure out who might reject me categorically vs because I'm ugly and crazy. Which is a very important distinction.

I just noticed this in the comment section for this music video someone saying this look was inspired by the film Dressed to Kill which I haven't seen. I thought it was more like Anna Wintour but cyberpunk biker. Back to the drawing board for #goals that aren't based on negative stereotype of trans women I guess. 😂 I don't think that actually was the inspiration though.

I put in no effort and I look like a criminal. I put in effort (hypothetically) and I look like a criminal. Dye hair weird colours = criminal. Natural hair = criminal. Can't win LMFAO.

well i'm a theyfab and i wish a was both amab and androgynous so i guess a twink/detrans is the best option

Enbycope

is it really cope if i'd still be enby even if i was amab or passed?

This is either peak enbycope or you're incredibly based

I don't know why they can't wrap their heads around this lol. It's because they're all binary. (I still hate the term enby.)

I feel like "twinkhon" could become / is becoming its own gender or sub-gender in certain spaces. I have no evidence of this and will not elaborate

Gayden fujo [BEEP] if I had to guess. They just turned their fetisb onto mtfs instead of cis men

Yaoi and it's consequences have been a disaster for the transgender community

Looool it's funny because the aesthetic transcends that and is universal but everyone blames yaoi. Most of the comments are about fujoshi and it's so boring. I definitely picked it up from music more than anime. What do you think people were doing before the 90s? Oh that's right we don't have an organised/well documented history pre-2000ish so you have to piece it together like a 30k word dissertation someone put through a shredder and then scattered across the English countryside and most people cba.

Rather than cross-dressing as a man, then, here Rachilde proposes to cross-dress as a stereotype of femininity. This outfit, which today might be described as the Shirley Temple look,

While it appears that Rachilde did indeed have at least one lesbian relationship (see "1885: Marriage and the Woman Writer"), I have also argued that her cross-dressing was far more complex than simple male impersonation. Similarly, questions about her sexual expression will evade simple categorization, as this chapter will show.

Rachilde formed friendships and alliances with gay men from her earliest years in Paris in the 1880s. As the "queen of decadence," she affiliated with decadent queens. She sheltered Verlaine in her apartment for a while in 1886, for example; she was received by the aging dandy Barbey d'Aurevilly; and Oscar Wilde frequented her salon in addition to being influenced by her work. She was also a lifelong friend of Jean Lorrain, who once described her as "delicieusement pederaste" ("Deux appreciations" 75).

One of the earliest sources of rumor about Rachilde's adoption by the gay male community comes from Les Fellatores (1888 ) by "Dr. Luiz" (Paul Devaux). The author claims that Rachilde followed the success of Monsieur Venus by writing about "toutes les sensations du tribadisme" (204) and goes on to cite from an article by Rachilde on the front page of L'Etudiant (Saturday, December 4, 1886): "Decidement, dans une horreur de la femme, je me consacre a l'amour contre nature de tous les hommes braves" (205). Despite the fact that the author refers to Rachilde as "une tribade" (205) and that the newspaper L'Etudiant contains advertisements for 'brasseries a femmes' (206), Rachilde's declaration of nothing but horror for women (neither her first nor her last such comment) suggests that she resisted recognizing her own sexual attraction as being primarily directed toward women. In fact, her stated preference for "l'amour contre nature," along with the popularity of Monsieur Venus among men in the gay subculture, leads Dr. Luiz to describe her as a "femme-tapette" (205). Gay men's admiration for her only increases when they learn that "cette fausse femelle pratiquait leur vice" and that "la romanciere de Monsieur Venus avait vecu son livre"
(206).

Something like that. Probably better than the average lifestyle now I guess in some ways where a lot of people just stay closeted online and have no meaningful irl relationships. She was also better integrated into a community (but she was also upper middle class.) Aside from the part where she was sentenced to two years in prison in Belgium so she could never go back there. Or if you live in China now where you get 10 years for writing danmei and they banned AO3 over there. I have a feeling Rachilde was probably still lonely and alienated underneath it all though. I don't imagine anyone understood her fully and they kept trying to get her to admit she was a lesbian. Lol, that's familiar to me. I don't care though (it doesn't horrify me at all,) it's mostly just annoying that I'm not. I think my life would make more narrative sense if I was and I might be more attracted to a group of people I could date too considering my borderline asexuality. But some of that is just intimacy issues as well.

The perception though (which a couple of people had,) never had nothing to do with my actual sexual preferences which I never revealed to anyone irl besides I guess my friend since he once mentioned that on skype. It was so weird because I never really discuss my preferences/people I'm attracted to with him and have no idea where he got this idea from from. I mean we were in a relationship for several months in 2011 and at that point I discussed with him the possibility that I might be asexual or greysexual (because I was dating/having relationships with guys and it just wasn't working with any of them,) but otherwise didn't mention anything else. I do have a terrible memory though.

I forgot how it started but I think he was talking about how someone else we went to uni with came out as a trans woman or non-binary. And then he was talking about a trans woman who he talked to on OKCupid once. So he added her on steam, and she was being weirdly aggressive (his words,) and trying to get him to tell her how cute she was and she lived in the US so he figured nothing could happen anyway so he unfriended her. Then he started talking about how he wasn't sure he wanted to date a trans woman anyway (because genital preferences.) So we started talking about people we find attractive, and at one point I brought up IAMX and he was like 'yeah that's prime [my name] material.'

You certainly don't seem to be that into what I'll call manly men or womanly women.

You like someone who is hard to pin down

Actually tbh I'm also surprised when people in general remember/notice anything about me.

I don't actually think much materially has changed besides the internet making it vaguely easier in some ways. Instead of just writing or making art work that might get discovered after you die (Henry Darger.) Visible historical [BEEP] people and cultures have always been upper middle class because most people who were lower class in general had their history erased. You hear about trans women who worked as prostitutes though sometimes and obviously a lot still do sex work.

History is more important for [BEEP] people to orient themselves but also because it's expected to 'prove yourself' where as cishet culture is taken for granted as natural and Human. It's not working now either and the tweets quoted below kind of get at why a bit (but I also think it's a technological problem as well as I said before):

This thread has been going around and I dislike it. I am going to try and engage it critically in a serious & cordial way. We begin by identifying "passing" as a psychological rather than sociological phenomenon, which is incorrect.

In addition to non-binary people not "owing" you androgyny, I think there?s a conversation we're not having about "passing as non-binary" not being psychologically possible.

Because "passing" is understood as a psychological rather than sociological phenomenon, it becomes an individualized problem: individuals must put in "work" to "understand" nonbinary people. On the contrary I think nonbinary cultures simply need power.

You HAVE to put the work in to change how you psychologically understand a person, EVEN THOUGH your brain WILL be going ?but? but? th? but??. That takes actual work, and you ARE capable of doing it.

By the next post we've changed our constraints. Passing as nonbinary is no longer "impossible," but simply something "most" nonbinary people are taken not to do. To me this elision indicates apathy toward those routinely clocked as not cis.

Many NBi people ARE presenting in ways that express a mixed, neutral, genderfuck, androgynous or etc presentation and you just don?t register it because you?re conditioned to read everyone as cis.

This elision sets the unfortunate tenor for the rest of the thread. Here, for instance, the very possibility of possessing a nonbinary set of sex characteristics feels foreclosed by the language of the thread. But that's what I have.

Your brain is heavily conditioned to assign people a gender based on the sex characteristics you perceive and then assume any other incongruences are a cis person?s odd frivolities, if you even notice them at all. You're not capable of genuinely "reading someone as non-binary".

Finally, the thread ends self-defeatingly, pointing out that nonbinary people do in fact "pass" as nonbinary once they disclose their identity to those who have put in the psychic "work" of correcting their "instincts."

It's understandable that with no other info, your brain will draw instantaneous conclusions without your consent ? but you HAVE to be willing to let those go and work with the correct information you?re then given, rather than entrenching in your brain?s first impression.

I feel there's a lot wrong with this thread. My main issue is this: by staging nonbinaryness as something only ever recognized after conversation, the closet becomes the primary scene of nonbinary confrontation. But as friends remind me, it is out of the closets, INTO THE STREETS

Digitally [BEEP] people are finding enough online to survive but not to desire life (or, life offline). In my experience, the result is, mainly, a politics of resentment towards other [BEEP] people, who are either leading richer lives than you, or enabling your suffering.

Lol the online trans community is so small (it doesn't necessarily seem that way to a lot of people because of the illusion of the internet and of course the media likes to give the impression that trans people are a larger group than they are as well as it suits the viral narrative,) I was looking up these tweets and found in one thread that repressed-person-on-hrt-who-wanted-to-live-as-a-trans-woman-but-wouldn't (need a better way of summarising that lol,) who I was in a discord chat with in one twitter thread.... (Not anything I'm quoting from.) What the fuck.

It's also not working because I'm posting this here instead of ???

[Nyctophilia]

Yes most afab nbs want to look amab, but no it's not cope because very cis masculine aesthetics/body types are unappealing to most non-binary people (regardless of sex,) and this is the peak aesthetic (for now) obviously:



(How many times am I going to post this band? Yes.)

It's androgynous but I don't think that's the look they're talking about because the music video is more masculine than that. (I think, can't keep track.) There are also a bunch of trans guys even that want to look like femboys (I really don't,) and we've reinvented 'twink' to mean any straight hetero/bisexual-coded skinny/slim-fit guy that a lot of afab people relate to/aspires to be/wants to [BEEP] like Loki, or maybe Timothee Chalamet (so young Tom Hiddleston 2.0. Guess he brought this on himself by being in that one film,) not necessarily a very feminine homosexual guy that a cishet man might consider having sex with (apart from the part where some of them apparently wanted to have sex with contrapoints during her crossdressing era and she never seemed like a very feminine homosexual guy but most cishet people can't tell the difference anyway so what am I doing,) so I really don't know where the boundaries for these terms are anymore. 'Hon' masculinises 'twink' more in my brain though so you end up with 'conventionally attractive [BEEP] trans women aesthetic' moreso than pre-trans straight trans woman living as a homosexual man, but I dunno if they use it that way. WHY ARE WE DOING THIS? I have to know though so I can figure out who might reject me categorically vs because I'm ugly and crazy. Which is a very important distinction.

I just noticed this in the comment section for this music video someone saying this look was inspired by the film Dressed to Kill which I haven't seen. I thought it was more like Anna Wintour but cyberpunk biker. Back to the drawing board for #goals that aren't based on negative stereotype of trans women I guess. 😂 I don't think that actually was the inspiration though.

I need to find a new parasocial relationship to distract from young Geddy Lee because at some point he's going to die and that's going to be really depressing. I could go back to IAMX but eh he's in his bdsm dom era (kinda song lyrics anyway,) and I'm happy for him but I can't project my fantasies onto him so easily now. The IAMX thing sort of went on for several years with a few overlapping alternatives (and there are some others I could go back to as well, but it's nice to find new people,) and I can't really have that again for several years because as I say, so I have to find someone else to crush on.

She looked hot in this video despite how ridiculous everything is and the fact she looked like she raided my 2005-2013 wardrobe (we're going to breeze past the implications of all of this, I can only unpack so much at one time,) but I don't know about in general:



Kinda hot here:



It's not the same though. She's not a cute nerd. She has that gen z soundcloud rapper vibe but doing hyperpop/pop-punk revival and she's a younger millennial (obviously cause gen z all have short hair. Not really but it is a bit like inverse 70s) omg I'm a chaser and I love your hair so why don't you fit into my niche fetishistic unreasonable boxes?

I could probably stop looking at gifs at any point in time:





There's also the really cute guy (I mean he has a name lol Burke Shelley,) who is bizarrely similar to Geddy Lee during that era and is already dead (problem solved) but he only looks really cute in this one video (and there's kind of a lack of images/videos etc in general):



I actually don't think it matters now, it's going to bum me out either way. Nooooooo. Brain.



I need help. 🤣 Like as though if I type those words it makes it better while I continue to do nothing and be weird.

related:



That's also basically more or less the subtext I got when skimreading Rachilde's book Monseiur Venus. 'It's impossible in reality.' Except part of the impossibility seemed to be connected to Raoule de Venerande not being a cis man as well in that text. I don't know if that was intentional though, because it's difficult to know how she related to the text given her ambiguous gender identity (it's possible she related to both characters,) and also I'd have to read it properly lol. It's very dark, and depressing, also sadistic, as it's a decadent novel.

It's also just very intense and desperate, but that makes a lot of sense to me. Not to mention when she wrote this there were no other books with this dynamic afaik. (There still isn't much.) This is the only thing that's trans-adj I've (sort of) read actually. I basically just read fiction and fanfiction with cis characters except Loki fanfics.

"I am a man in love with a man, not a woman!" she retorted, as her shadowed eyes turned away from the glittering gaze of the Antinous. [...] I wished for the impossible ... It is mine ... No, I mean to say it shall never be mine ...

"So, will you keep him?" the baron enquired in a voice of the utmost neutrality.

"Even if it ruins me! I want her to be as happy as the godchild of a king!"

"Let us be clear about this! If I am the official confidant, let it be either he or she, lest I lose what little reason I have left."

"Let it be she."

I think everyone insisting she was a lesbian bothered her so much she wrote it into the text though lol....:

"Sappho ...! Well now," he went on with an ironic wave of the hand, "I suspected as much. Continue, Monsieur de Venerande, continue my dear chap!"

The corner of Raoule's mouth creased in contempt!

"You are wrong, Monsieur de Raittolbe; to be Sapphic would be like everyone! My upbringing forbids me the crime of the boarding school girl or the prostitute's foibles. I fancy you place me above the level of vulgar amours. How can you imagine me capable of such weaknesses? You may speak freely ... I am in my own home."

"Raoule," said the baron de Raittolbe effusively, "I am surely convinced that you are mad. But I hope to cure you. Tell me the rest, and let me understand how, without Sappho's example, you can be in love with some pretty girl or other?"

Raoule's pale visage became fiery.

"Raoule, you are not a man? You cannot be a man?"

And a sob of lost illusions, for ever dead, rose from his loins to his throat.

[...]

He thrust Raoule away with a clenched fist:

"No! No! Keep on these clothes," he screamed, quite out of his senses.

But once only had they played their parts sincerely, sinning against their love, which, to thrive, had to look the truth in the face while fighting it with its own strength.

[Nyctophilia]

10 May 2023 Publisher?s Note: readers are alerted that concerns have been raised regarding methodology as described in this article. The publisher is currently investigating this matter and a further response will follow the conclusion of this investigation.

16 May 2023 Publisher's Note: the Supplementary Information has been removed due to a lack of documented consent by study participants.

https://link.springer.com/article/10...08-023-02576-9

So Bailey (one of the researchers who worked on this,) is complaining about this. While this explanation is suspect (assuming the consent in question is the consent of the parents,) I have very little sympathy for him because I know he's biased and has lied a bunch and he's choosing to pursue this line of research now, after mostly ignoring genetically female trans people for decades, and still hasn't created any equivalent papers to those for genetic males. Now he's doing research without involving any of us and just focussing on parents of teenagers. Contributing to our ongoing suppression.

Sexology is one of the most misogynistic and sexist fields of research there is imo. Maybe because I'm hyperfocussing on one segment of the field. It's just insane though. If you read further into this post you will see why.

So I've been very frustrated obviously about this and a while back in like late 2022 I was invited to some new server. I left the others all ages ago in 2020 because they attract people who are in depressing situations and toxic people in some instances and just bad vibes, and rationalists are all into IQ and race research and [BEEP] like that it's a whole lot. But I'm lurking again now. Mostly to see where these sexologists are at. I dunno if I'm going to go back to chatting in these spaces (at one point I was participating every day basically lol,) maybe if I can find some balance (I don't do balance lol.) It's not like what I'm doing now is healthy either but I was feeling more uncomfortable back then.

I'm too lazy to label all the quotes:

I don't think I'm being uncharitable because BPD = AAP is a bizarre theory that they refuse to even attempt to justify, so guessing seems appropriate and this seems like a logical guess

but just because I'm not uncharitable doesn't mean I'm not wrong

Oh boy this is not a good start.

When I diagnose a*p, gender progressivism, etc, i do so at an individual level, eg: asking people about their sexual fantasies.

Blanchardian researchers can't do this because they don't ask large numbers of people lots of questions and also they would dismiss all the answers they get as lies anyway.

😆

for a while Ive been kind of confused about this stuff because theres some vague allusion to an ideological conflict in how female sexuality works but its not clear what exactly it is. like on one extreme you get bizarre stuff like conservatives saying that the female orgasm doesn't exist

It's really weird that some people assume it doesn't exist. I mean any form of orgasm not specific forms since some people break that down further. I've had hundreds maybe a thousand+? of 'female orgasms.' I gave them all to myself but it's a thing.

Just how though.

OK so not quoting a bunch of stuff too much there.

Blanchardians don't believe female sexual desire is real. they also cant tell the difference between feminists and aaps because they dont ask feminists about their sexuality and dont meet AAPs to notice whether they are feminist. blanchardians believe that feminism is the same as bpd because blanchardian's keep gaslighting feminists. so blanchardians reason, aap = ftms = feminism = bpd

A lot of feminism annoys me and even I wouldn't say it's BPD. Wtf? I've missed a lot.

I only know brief bits and pieces I've picked up on twitter etc of what's happened here. I think a lot of this thing I'm reading now is a justification from this guy that he's not BPD either because someone implied that or he's considering his present behaviour/reaction caused by the behaviour of Blanchardian researchers etc and it's also made him reflect on feminist's reaction to conservatives and the methods employed by conservatives in general towards women and feminists. He says that he feels over time that in his interactions with Blanchardian's he's exhibited more behaviour that he thinks is similar to BPD whereas in the past his brother and other's described him as the opposite of that personality type.

my explanation would be that blanchardians are absolutely terrible and bpd-adj behavior is a natural and strategically appropriate way to deal with their particular brand of terribleness.

ive come to wonder if conservatives often employ this kind of terribleness towards feminists/women/their daughters. it's basically a sort of, refusal to discuss problems or clarify things or engage with critique, plus trying to present as the other personal being unreasonable.

Well I would say if you're part of an oppressed group you're going to have this experience at some point where you come face to face with that oppression.

Separately it also seems like someone is arguing that AAP (a sexuality where you are aroused by the idea of becoming/being a man but there's a bit more to it than that,) is BPD and that's what I'm trying to figure out now because that appears to be a batshit claim to make. Ftr this person isn't genetically female or AAP he's on hrt I think and is AGP and hasn't socially transitioned. So this wouldn't apply to him personally but some also do try to pin various mental disorders on AGP people as some kind of argument also.

Is the claim that Blanchardians read and understand [x]'s AAP data and conclude it is really BPD? Or that you describe AAPlike symptoms and they chalk them up to BPD? Or do they identify some group which might not perfectly overlap with your notion of AAP and call that BPD? Or something else? [...]

My understanding is that Bailey doesn't believe in AAP, and has the "autohomoerotic" label for AAPlike traits. So I'm confused about what are the sorts of things that you would describe as AAP, that "Blanchardians" (Bailey? Lawrence? Who?) would not already be describing with a label other than BPD.

Well the fundamental issue is that they don't clarify and they don't engage, they just throw vague stuff out there
I don't know where the person who asked me got it from
But it definitely seems like a thing they believe, hsu confirmed it too: [link]

He can't actually be in this server can he lol? (Not Bailey some other researcher.) I dunno can't confirm.

Cantor once said that they were BPD rather than persistent sexual interests in the male sense

Oh my god this entire subject area/field is a whole [BEEP] nightmare. Also it seems like there aren't many people in this field in the first place. Also I used to talk to someone who saw him as a therapist lol. I think he diagnosed her with BPD if I'm remembering right she was a trans woman.

Even if a sexual interest is transient where the [BEEP] is the BPD connection coming from?

I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist here.


But between this and the weird tendency for obvious female sociopaths who have killed multiple people and have clear violent sexual fetishes being diagnosed with BPD even when they're also diagnosed with ASPD. Which I thought was weird at the time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterb..._ditch_murders

In November 2013, Dennehy pleaded guilty to all three murders and two further attempted murders.[13][14] Her sister Maria was unsurprised by the guilty plea and said, "I think she did that to control the situation. She likes people to know she's the boss."[15] Dennehy was held on remand at HM Prison Bronzefield.[16] Assessing psychiatrists later diagnosed Dennehy with psychopathic, anti-social and borderline personality disorders.[17]

On 28 February 2014, at the Old Bailey, Dennehy was sentenced to life imprisonment. The trial judge, Mr Justice Spencer, ordered that she should never be released due to the premeditation of each murder. Spencer said further that Dennehy was sadomasochistic, and lacked the normal range of human emotions.[18] Dennehy was the third woman in the UK to be given a whole life tariff, after Myra Hindley and Rosemary West.[19]

I think it's been removed from this article? But I know there was some reference to her writing violent sexual pornographic fantasies while in prison. There's a footnote link referencing her paraphilia.

Not to mention the overlap between ASD (autism spectrum,) and BPD in diagnoses. I've met numerous guys I would describe (have described) as having these traits without diagnoses. But the way it's often being used is insane and sexist.

If I understand some of their views correctly, they are skeptical that a natal female's self-reported paraphilic sexual attraction is reflecting the same as a natal male's self-reported paraphilic sexual attraction. As in, for natal females, they reflect sociocultural factors (they were with a male partner with that sexual interest) or personality factors (what [x] just wrote) rather than genuine preferential sexual interest

Also I'm pretty sure they do believe female paraphilias at least occur RARELY, since Bailey and Blanchard wrote that "Gender dysphoria is not one thing" article for 4thwavenow where they talked about "autohomoerotic gender dysphoria" in natal females, which would be the result of a paraphilic interest by their standards.

Think he's talking about several people here when he says they.

This is quite a bit different than saying a specific sexual interest is just BPD, or that perhaps unconventional sexual interests in general are BPD.

Also I think regardless of whether a sexual preference comes about socially or not if someone then wants to choose to continue having this sexuality or to say transition they should have the right to do that and other people shouldn't be trying to control them. Also though a lot of personality is genetic and honestly doesn't seem very mutable.

I think Blanchard believes it and Bailey remains skeptical

this should predict a strong correlation between AAP and personality, but I don't think such a correlation has been observed anywhere
(I suspect they get this result from rounding BPD off to gender progressivism, and rounding AAP off to gender progressivism? idk; at least I don't know of any other way they could have come up with this result)

Applying that to sex, I'd notice that male sexuality seems harder to stamp out than the female version. You could have an ultra repressive regime and there'd still be a park where gay men find each other. Lesbians would not resort to cruising for other lesbians in a park in a sufficiently repressive regime

Mm no because that's behaviour not sexuality. Female people are obviously less likely to act on their sexuality but that doesn't mean their sexuality isn't there psychologically.

For the record, I do think that female paraphilias exist, and when they exist, they are especially likely to be found in lesbian women

(I would expect them to be more likely in bisexual women and equally likely in lesbian and straight women...)

I would also expect them to be more likely in bi women than lesbian or straight women

I'd think so potentially. Bisexual women are less sociosexually restricted etc.

Getting off point though... I need like a source for this BPD statement because it so insane.

Reverse causality? Ie, trans AFABs picking up odd sexual tastes from social contagion?

That seems... Testable.

But also it seems like a pretty odd claim, given that it's kind of unclear whether anyones picks up sexual tastes from social contact

I guess if anyone would, it would be non-binary AFABs (who, in this hypothetical model, are all enby b/c of social contaigion)

Kevin hsu says that that is their theory
It's not something the women in my almost-qualitative AAP survey reported, so I suspect they just made it up

This I've heard from them before (that most of female sexuality is social contagion essentially.) Maybe he's just rounding it all off to BPD. (I'm still looking.)

There's this implication that my sexuality is some kind of frivolous superficial thing that can be adjusted to suit other's needs and I'm going to need society to know that if they forced me into some form of conversion therapy I would respond violently. And they would ultimately have to kill me.

I know this is the end game for conservative society at least when you get past a certain point.

OK so I believe I've found his position through his twitter account and it looks like he's doing what other people do where they blame gender dysphoria on various disorders but he has brought up BPD a few times. Obviously a lot of people blame it on autism and he's brought that up too. He doesn't seem to have brought up AAP on his twitter maybe he did somewhere else cause like I say they reduce dysphoria to a contagion and then when someone brings up AAP or AHE they tend to incorporate that into their contagion theory. So more things are viruses.

What did I fucking say though?

At the end of the day you don't want an autism diagnoses though even if you are autistic because 1. they can't help you and 2. sooner or later someone will use it as an excuse to inhibit your freedom. Well you're fucked either way because you might have 'traits' this study isn't pushing that position but most journalists who write about this topic, and people with blogs, do and in general they'll grasp at whatever they can. "We also know that that 48% of all referees to the Tavistock, have autistic traits, with 35% of them displaying moderate to severe traits." Etc.

Fandom is very very gender progressive, right?
I speculate that they use presence of gender progressivism as a proxy for social contagion
So they wouldn't be convinced unless you could find a community of gender conservative AAPs (or gender conservative female paraphiles)

It would seem so yeah.

No one responded to this but the bolded seems interesting:

So I've gradually gained the impression that a lot of the bizarre Blanchardian views originate from their contact with gender conservatives, either because the blanchardians are themselves gender conservative on those areas, or because the blanchardians are gender progressive and have asspulled some buzarre responses to the gender conservatives, or because the blanchardians have to adopt those views to be taken seriously by gender conservatives

What is the primary and most personal conflict that gender conservatives might have about female sexuality, which might explain the strong blanchardian insistence on bizarre female sexuality views?
It must surely be "my daughter is dating someone I don't approve of"!

This probably also connects to all sorts of other things like social contagion constantly being brought up in that context, e.g. I think a stereotypical case of this is a teen girl who is dating some rebellious anticonservative guy

Personal opinion but Bailey seems to act like an edgelord.
A lot of his twitter comments are straight up douchey.

Was never paying that much attention to his twitter but Blanchard definitely often has been an edgelord on twitter.

Ftr I think a few of the original rad fems - the ones who weren't just transphobic conservatives or other sexually conservative women were diagnosed with schizophrenia not BPD (Solanas and Firestone off the top of my head.) Technically Solanas never identified as a feminist though they just adopted her. The Scum Manifesto is really insane but it's also kind of a mirror of the far right/fascism. I can't prove this but I also think she had some kind of forced feminisation/female supremacy fetish too the features of her manifesto also came up in a play she wrote and were more explicitly sexual there. I haven't read Shulamith Firestone's work really (she actually was part of the feminist movement.) I'd probably disagree with a lot because I do with most feminists but she did at least at one point mention that artificial wombs were important and I agree with that. Not aware of anyone besides those two being diagnosed with anything and I think they are the most interesting haha.

[Nyctophilia]

They were selling shirts for kids with the phrase "Satan respects pronouns," silk-screened across the front.

Just so we know what we're dealing with, here.

If that bothers you then you're not at all prepared for what you're dealing with.

I was just going to quote that one crossdressing Jesus/Satan fanfiction but this is actually more entertaining. Though I've definitely gone into this or parts of this before.

You've framed the debate as a religious/spiritual one and then if you believe the theory some neoreactionary people have come up with - and there's absolutely no reason to except that it's very entertaining in this situation and the right seems to have adopted rhetoric that clearly stems from their theory such as 'woke is a religion' - you've decided to fight this war with the same kind of people who wrote the bible in the first place.

It is the role of the capitalists to protect the liberty of the individual, it is the role of the nationalists to secure the existence of the nation within which these individuals reside, and it is the role of the religious tradition to orient the people of this nation towards a superordinate metaphysical aim. These three forces acting in tandem with appropriately principled approaches to each other are what it will take to restore Western civilisation or at least to build a successor.

from this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twi_6NgsJWU

Neoreactionaries seem to believe the church is effectively in a state of rebellion and that modern progressivism is a successor to Christianity. 'The Cathedral' as Yarvin likes to call it. But that the church should be revived. The YouTuber I'm quoting above at least seems to have also noticed there were the three estates of the realm (clergy, nobility and commoners,) and then have mapped this onto other things like the judicial, executive and legislative branches of the US government. And they claim this organisation of roles/political groups is based on I dunno people's personalities/ways of thinking.

Here's the thing though. The clergy was always made up heavily of let's say LGBT+ people so I have a descriptive label I can use, though this is of course a recent Western construction. Eg:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Universal_Friend

The Public Universal Friend[a] (born Jemima Wilkinson; November 29, 1752 - July 1, 1819) was an American preacher born in Cumberland, Rhode Island, to Quaker parents. After suffering a severe illness in 1776, the Friend claimed to have died and been reanimated as a genderless evangelist named the Public Universal Friend, and afterward shunned both birth name and gendered pronouns. In androgynous clothes, the Friend preached throughout the northeastern United States, attracting many followers who became the Society of Universal Friends.[5]

The Friend's theology was broadly similar to that of most Quakers. The Friend stressed free will, opposed slavery, and supported sexual abstinence. The most committed members of the Society of Universal Friends were a group of unmarried women who took leading roles in their households and community. In the 1790s, members of the Society acquired land in Western New York where they formed the town of Jerusalem near Penn Yan, New York. The Society of Universal Friends ceased to exist by the 1860s. Many writers have portrayed the Friend as a woman, and either a manipulative fraudster, or a pioneer for women's rights; others have viewed the Friend as transgender or non-binary and a figure in trans history.

This isn't a coincidence in most cultures LGBT+ people have been heavily involved in the spirituality of the group so some examples:

In pre-Islamic Bugis culture, bissu were seen as intermediaries between the people and the gods, according to Indonesian anthropologist professor Halilintar Lathief. The bissu are closely associated with the female yet androgynous moon goddess, as her spiritual offspring.[12] Up until the 1940s, the bissu were still central to keeping ancient palace rites alive, including coronations of kings and queens.[7] Historically, bissu have played an important role in other ceremonies as well, particularly in weddings and childbirth events.

^ Something along these lines is relatively common in many pre-Abrahamic religions. Like Inanna/Ishtar.

As the atmosphere became increasingly hostile to nonheterosexuals, fewer people were willing to take on the role of bissu.[7] With the rise of Suharto's New Order administration, the bissu were further marginalized as deviant and un-Islamic elements of Indonesian society.[13] The bissu were also targeted during the New Order era because of their purported association with the Communist Party of Indonesia.[8][17] This persecution included the banning of bissu practices, the destruction of spiritually significant objects, the forced assimilation of bissu to male roles, and the execution of many bissu individuals.

Not sure why that association keeps happening but it's interesting. In America they insisted 'race mixing was communism' during past bigot/reactionary protests as well lol.

The neoreaction theory that most of the Western clergy is now pretty much synonymous with communism or something like that seems related also.

For one to be considered bissu, all aspects of gender must be combined to form a whole. It is believed that you are born with the propensity to become a bissu, revealed in a baby whose genitalia are ambiguous. These ambiguous genitalia need not be visible; a normative male who becomes a bissu is believed to be female on the inside. This combination of sexes enables a 'meta-gender' identity to emerge. However, ambiguous genitalia alone do not confer the state of being a bissu.[11] The person must also learn the language, songs and incantations, and have a gift for bestowing blessings in order to become bissu. To be considered a "true" bissu, an individual needs to undergo initiation rituals and mentorship from another bissu, but this practice is waning due to the decreasing amount of people taking the role.[12] They are expected to remain celibate and wear conservative clothes.[7] In practice, many bissu do partake in sexual activities (especially with oroan?) but this is not widely acknowledged and public recognition is seen as delegitimizing to the bissu's spiritual power.[13]

Editor's Note: In the Indian subcontinent, e.g., the Hijras are believed by many to have extraordinary powers, through which they can bless individuals or curse them. This gives Hijras an extraordinary space in the social order, and accepted Indians still welcome Hijras to look for their gifts on significant events, eg- new baby, marriage, etc.

If you look at Western Academia and philosophy you find a similar thing. Lots of LGBT+ people. It's mostly butch women, non-binary afab people and androgynous lesbians who sort of identify as trans (Camille Paglia,) though. I think because of the West's allergy to femininity more masculine afab people have sort of filled in various roles. Not that there are no transfemmes etc in academia but it's less common and amab non-binary people are also rarer here. There have been a bunch of gay male philosophers too though.

https://www.atpweb.org/jtparchive/trps-33-01-01-016.pdf

I think this paper was written in 2001? It's a bit kooky but I'm not that serious with this post and I dislike organised religion. I just think it's a fun way to respond to Christians who have the audacity hahaha.

ABSTRACT: The lives and experiences of 30 North Americans who experience themselves as neither man nor woman but "more like a third gender" were explored using in-depth interviews and qualitative content analysis based on grounded theory. Parallels suggested by third-gendered roles of non-Western cultures include a significant number (93% ) reporting experiences of transcendent spiritual events or unusual abilities, inclination to work as artists and/or healers, and performance of mediating and leadership roles. Different forms of Western variant gender, as well as distinctions between sex, gender, and sexual orientation, are delineated along with a variety of non-Western established third-gender roles.

Any number of the traits that seem to arise in conjunction with an intermediate gender identity-gravitating toward work as an artist, healer, or mediator; life-changing illnesses or accidents; and spontaneous experience with realities beyond bounded space and time-would mark a person in a non-Western culture as blessed (or cursed) to follow a shamanic-type path. But while such abilities and functions of non-Western third-gender roles could be said to be culturally prescribed and expected, it can hardly be claimed that any movement of third-gendered Americans toward the same types of roles is based on the social construction of the position, as there is no third gender recognized in the United States.

Not only is there no recognition in the United States of the existence of gender intermediacy, there is no system of apprenticeship or training to guide related special abilities into particular roles. The participants in this study have simply, in many cases, stumbled into the closest approximations that Western society offers to use their innate gifts.

I think the fandom of various female pop artists often attract androgynous and feminine gay men, sometimes other gay men quite a lot. Trans women sometimes. It's similar to the priestesses of goddesses in other cultures.

She seems to subconsciously know that:



I think people got tired of suppressing themselves and their sexuality though. It's often a requirement.

This is a comment on the neoreactionary video:

This is exactly why Spencer and his "coup" on Sargon was fundamentally a short sighted, narcissistic miscalculation, if not an outright a calculated self-pwn.
The right thing to do was let Sargon carry the pepe memes and the kekistani flags untill the normies ears fall off, not trying to reclaim it.

You mean when 4chan resurrected the Egyptian chaos/darkness frog God kek?

Kek is the deification of the concept of primordial darkness (kkw sm3w[1]) in the ancient Egyptian Ogdoad cosmogony of Hermopolis.

The Ogdoad consisted of four pairs of deities, four male gods paired with their female counterparts. Kek's female counterpart was Kauket.[2][3][4] Kek and Kauket in some aspects also represent night and day, and were called "raiser up of the light" and the "raiser up of the night", respectively.[5]

The name is written as kk or kkwy with a variant of the sky hieroglyph in ligature with the staff (N2) associated with the word for "darkness" kkw.[6]

That wasn't very clever. For you.

Frankly I think they should sue Jordan Peterson for ruining their meme hahaha (I couldn't have done a better job if I tried):



'he was between categories. Sort of like a transsexual btw'

Man he became so boring after he converted to Christianity. This is why we're moving on lol.

Anyway the frog council will decide your fate - some Tumblr meme that's too big to embed.

Honestly the Human brain really didn't evolve to process a society this size + level of complexity. Now it's basically global. It's a miracle anything ever works at all.

[Nyctophilia]

The reason that I think people believe what I say is that I'm very pessimistic. Most times when you listen to someone who's a motivational speaker, let's say. You know it fills you with a temporary optimism, but you go home and and and the wiser part of you knows that mostly it's the painting over of rotten wood with a fresh coat of paint.

That's not a good thing. They should be deciding that based on the validity of what you're saying not emotional and neurotic bias. Also honestly I don't think that's what neurotic people need to hear because they already are stuck in that negative headspace.

Oh god and then this goes on for a while in this tone of voice:

And I tell my audiences very clearly that their life is going to be difficult and sometimes difficult beyond imagining and tolerance. And that is definitely in your future if it isn't in your present, and for many people it's in their present. And that that can be unbearable. Enough to turn you against life itself. To corrupt you, to drive you to nihilism, to drive you to suicide and worse to drive you to thoughts of vengefulness.

But then despite that I tell people we're remarkable creatures. We're capable of taking up the burden of that suffering and facing the reality of that malevolence voluntarily we can actually do that.

No I don't get this from you. Even putting aside that you devote a considerable amount of time pushing gender roles for everyone which doesn't work for me, and demonising trans people. I don't get that message. You've only gotten more depressing to listen to. Maybe some people get that message I dunno.

That weird right wing YouTuber who talked about how the left killed Jordan Peterson and now they have to take on Andrew Tate that I brought up before. (So let's just pretend this is accurate and he has lost influence I don't know that that's true but I do get the impression his audience has aged.) I don't think the left (tm) did that at all. I don't think we really have that power and especially with young people if you critique someone or moralise about them they're just going to appeal to teenagers + edgelords even more. Jordan Peterson kind of fucked himself by:

1. Converting to Christianity where as before he was obviously very influenced by it but claimed to be atheist since then he became boring which is the worst thing you can be if trying to appeal to young people.

2. He's just very neurotic honestly which he can't help but the way he expresses it also doesn't involve a lot of anger which young people especially boys tend to find more appealing. He seems kind of broken and sad often. I know Gabor Mate said that he had a lot of anger in his earlier content and that really stood out to him it didn't really to me, but I think now and then I kind of see it yeah but mostly that's not how he expresses himself it's like sad and broken and he's not really badass in anyway like the kind of character that appeals to young guys (or young me haha,) is like Rorschach or Patrick Bateman etc.

Me at 19: Oh he's short and weird and aggressive. Is this a role model?



Alan Moore:

But I have people come up to me in the street saying, "I am Rorschach! That is my story!' And I'll be thinking: 'Yeah, great, can you just keep away from me, never come anywhere near me again as long as I live'?"

😂

And he now looks with dismay on the way the superhero genre in which he once worked has eaten the culture. "Hundreds of thousands of adults [are] lining up to see characters and situations that had been created to entertain the 12-year-old boys - and it was always boys - of 50 years ago. I didn?t really think that superheroes were adult fare. I think that this was a misunderstanding born of what happened in the 1980s - to which I must put my hand up to a considerable share of the blame, though it was not intentional ? when things like Watchmen were first appearing. There were an awful lot of headlines saying 'Comics Have Grown Up'. I tend to think that, no, comics hadn?t grown up. There were a few titles that were more adult than people were used to. But the majority of comics titles were pretty much the same as they?d ever been. It wasn?t comics growing up. I think it was more comics meeting the emotional age of the audience coming the other way."

I also looked up to Green Day a lot as a teenager obviously. I'm queer/non-binary/trans so. They don't have that now really do they? Like the more aggressive/optimistic vibe.



^ telling people not to crowdsurf half way through a song lol.

Helped me a little at the time for a short while despite the insane amount of bullying etc.



Hmm. I don't know not paying close attention. Lots of musicians overdosing or committing suicide younger than ever (early 20s instead of late 20s or midlife.) The vibes are very apathetic and lacking in energy I spoke about this for years lol (and I kind of like his music but still it was notable):



Her as well (I'm too old I think and grew up on music that's too energetic to like this kind of thing):



But it's been several years since then now so.

I don't think people can help being neurotic though I am as well. I like Kurt Cobain a lot but you know he had that personality too in the 90s and the vibes came across musically and it's inspired a lot of modern music too (and I actually do really like Nirvana) even then though it's still more aggressive but you can see the seeds and prob with post-punk too:



And why is this important? Well actually young people often orient themselves around music/music subcultures. So you know most youth cultures have been based on music until the last decade I guess. And it could be useful.

I'm just talking about white people too because honestly I think Andrew Tate appeals more to people who are racial minorities too like Sneako for instance. I dunno though.

3. The whole anonymous troll demon thing where he alienated 4chan and every edgy person in his fanbase and a bunch of other people too cause it wasn't clear who he was even talking about exactly lol. It was kind of funny but yeah a lot of people got pissed off:



^ whoever that is is so angry and hurt actually lol. Because he was probably important to them. And that's what I'm saying.

I mean he kind of had too because he pushes the idea of being a responsible adult. It's not what most people want to hear so in that sense of course Andrew Tate was more appealing than him to young people. He's like 'work out, I'm batman, follow me and I'll turn you into batman, women are stupid. All your anger is valid.' Etc. I don't feel like being generous about his message lol but yeah some of that's actually how he thinks/has said things like that.

Trying to work around this huge technological innovation/shift (the internet + even moreso social media. Because tbh I don't think most of the significant shifts in mental health issues statistically really happened until more modern social media and apps like tinder took off starting in the late 2000s.)

But you know a lot of young people are fucking stupid. And old people. And Humans in general. So whatever.

[Nyctophilia]

sexual harassment has evolved

10 years ago it was anonymous troll #7494720 telling you to "tits or gtfo"

now it's Jeff he/him politely asking if you're interested in ever doing OnlyFans

Shoe seems to think the second statement is worse than the first but personally I don't think so. People post a lot of different stuff to Only Fans so although you could assume they're asking for nudes it's vague. If someone brings up a specific body part I get grossed out. Like the guy who was like 'I want to suck your dick' that still made me uncomfortable and I don't even have a dick but bringing up female parts would be worse for me. Also the first quote is used in a purposefully dismissive way whereas the second is just a question. The first implies that that's the only thing that matters the second doesn't necessarily.

But Shoe dislikes it because she believes it's the normalisation of porn. Except I don't really see Only Fans as porn it's more like a parasocial therapy thing with nudity as far as I know, and so it can be a lot more unhealthy than porn but also less sexual. I'm sure people post porn there too but I have no interest in the site so I don't even know lol. Feels like you have to be subscribed to really know. Also I don't actually care. Because I don't look down on people who do that. Though I wouldn't want to personally. I'm the opposite of an exhibitionist really.

It's going to be replaced with AI in about 1-2 years and so it's pointless really to get too invested in discourse on the topic.

Oh no the responses to this tweet lol.

🧵50 Shades of Ideology: Unraveling the unconscious feminist desire to be dominated.

From push to prod, provoke to nag, feminism--particularly 3rd-wave feminism--embodies the crystallized, ideological, and political representation of the female penchant for stirring the pot with their male counterparts.

This is an unconscious cry for domination, a subtle rebellion born from the disillusionment, depression, and discontentment that plague women in their so-called "liberated" reality.

This is probably trolling + projection (cause' by posting this aren't you trying to prod/provoke women?) However I'm always procrastinating so... I think it's a mistake to assume that feminists especially rad fems feel this way. A lot of them are sexually traumatised or very sociosexually restricted so the more you do this kind of thing the more disgusted and misandric they'll become. Also the exceptions are more likely to be into sexually dominating men like Solanas, or pederasts (?) like Germaine Greer.

I guess a lot of libfems are sexually submissive though but it comes with a lot of caveats. They don't necessarily mean that except they later make it clear that's on their mind lol.

We've very quickly moved from 'feminist' (which is always vaguely defined tbf by so many people,) to woman here:

Unbeknownst to her, the modern Western woman harbors a subconscious desire for domination because it's in her nature as a woman. It's why "Fifty Shades of Grey," a book delving into the realm of dominance, reigns supreme as one of the highest-selling literary phenomena in history

I never had any interest in reading this book honestly but at one point I started reading about it online given how it somehow became this huge cultural thing and found some interesting stuff about his very traumatic backstory and also this one female villain. More interesting tbh than whatever BDSM sexual dynamic the two main characters supposedly have. Spoilers I guess:

Christian was born in the city of Detroit. His biological mother, Ella, was addicted to drugs and worked as a prostitute. Her pimp was extremely abusive to both her and Christian, often beating Cristian with a belt, hitting and kicking him, or putting out his cigarettes on his skin, leaving terrible scars and burn marks. When he was four years old, his mother overdosed and died; he was alone with her corpse for four days before they were discovered by police.

Christian continues to have nightmares of his childhood even well into adulthood, and often calls his biological mother "the crack whore." Dr. Grace Trevelyan Grey was the emergency room doctor on staff when the traumatized Christian was brought to the hospital by the police. She and her husband, Carrick Grey, adopted Christian into their family, but while they were waiting for the adoption paperwork to go through, he lived with a foster family for several months, which included a ten year old Jack Hyde.

Elena Lincoln (Kim Basinger) is the villainess from the novel, Fifty Shades Darker, as well as the 2017 film under the same title. Her backstory reveals that she is a friend of Dr. Grace Trevelyan-Grey, the adoptive mother of Christian Grey. However, when Christian was only 15, Elena engaged in an affair with him, while introducing him into the BDSM experience.

Elena is introduced as Christian's business partner, which (given her past with him) alarms Ana. Elena later confronted Ana at a gathering, and warns her to break up with Christian, claiming that he would never be the man Ana wanted him to be and would never be satisfied with a "vanilla" relationship. Ana disregarded Elena's "warning", reminding Elena of what she had done to Christian and demanding her to stay out of their lives.

He continued to practice BDSM, acting as a Dominant and a Sadist. Many of his submissives were selected for him by Elena,

As an adolescent, Christian had violent mood swings that often got him into fights, and he secretly drank and was addicted to alcohol. He hated all of the therapists that he was forced to meet with, because none of them were helping him. When he was fifteen years old, he took a landscaping job for his mother's friend Elena Lincoln.

Elena seduced him, and he ended up losing his virginity to her. She introduced him to the BDSM lifestyle, which he credits with teaching him how to control his emotions and channel his anger into positive outlets. She acted as a Domme to Christian for six years, until Elena's then-husband found out, and beat her to the point that she was hospitalized.

Now I haven't read the novels but it seems dominance is vaguely pathologised in the novels moreso for females (unless there are other female dommes contrasting with this villain character,) but also kind of for him. It's like an aberration that came from his abuse.

I've also noticed it's fairly common to write some kind of traumatic backstory for male protagonists. But this is something that comes more from fandom culture and so no surprises this work started off as Twilight fanfiction. It dates back at least to Spock/Kirk Star Trek fanzines where hurt/comfort as a genre originated.

This is the political analysis:

A very simple reason lies in our social culture, where males are not supposed to show feelings, and homosexual relationships are frowned upon as unnatural and perverted. So, when is it acceptable to show emotions? Well, when someone is hurt, it is unkind to be unfeeling, so then real emotions can be shown, possibly pent-up ones saved from other times. I agree that most h/c stories are a bit overdone.

This is a sexual analysis:

In my opinion, H/C, after all, is just socially acceptable S&M. [17]

I've heard so much stick being given to people because they enjoy S&M, and yet no-one utters a mutter if someone says that a story was great because "Doyle suffered so beautifully", or because Doyle (it's usually Doyle, poor little flower) was so badly hurt and then rescued/nurtured by Bodie. This absolutely flummoxes me.

Back to twitter thread:

This is also why the feminist finds herself aligning with Islam, seeking the very strength and dominance that she has chased out of her male counterpart in the west.

Oh man I've heard this so many times. They have this huge racial inferiority complex and it's still really dumb. Most women are never going to go along with Islam they support Muslims because they're a minority group in the West and they don't discriminate between minority groups. At the point it personally affects them it's going to be going the same way as Christianity in the West lol.

And again this hypermasculine tyrannical ideal you all have is mostly your fantasy. They project it onto black guys too.



What I hear when I read things like this (Michel Houellebecq - Atomised. No I haven't read this book. I'm also cutting out parts of the quote and modifying some bits cause it's really racist):

It probably sounds strange now but in the seventies no-one really cared how big their dick was. When I was a teenager I had every conceivable hang-up about my body except that. I don't know who started it; [BEEP] people probably. Although you find it in a lot of American cop shows but there's no mention of it in Sartre. Whatever, in the showers at the gym I realized I had a really small dick. I measured it when I got home--it was five inches, maybe five and a half or six if you measured right to the base. I'd found something new to worry about, something I couldn't do anything about; it was a basic and permanent handicap. It was around then that I started hating black people.

There weren't many of them in the school--most of them went to the technical high school, Lycee Pierre-de-Coubertin, where the eminent Defrance did his philosophical striptease and propounded his pro-youth ass-kissing. I only had one black person in my class, a big, stocky guy who called himself Ben. He always wore a baseball cap and Nikes; I was convinced he had a huge dick. All the girls threw themselves at this [redacted] and here I was trying to teach them about Mallarme--what the [BEEP] was the point? This is the way Western civilization would end, I thought bitterly, people worshiping in front of big dicks.

This black guy was going out with the girl I would have chosen myself blonde, very pretty, with a childlike face and small firm tits. They were always holding hands in class. I always kept the windows closed while they were working -- the girls would get hot and take off their jumpers, their tee shirts stuck to their breasts; hidden behind my desk, I'd [redacted.]

Why don't you take a seat over there supreme gentleman.

[Nyctophilia]

The internet: Taylor Swift is cancelled something about boyfriend. (I don't care.)

Me: Huh I guess Taylor Swift really has a thing for English guys lol.

This guy is English, last guy was English, I remember she dated Tom Hiddleston briefly at one point. And also I think Harry Styles lol.

...If I wait a really long time and we're all immortal (no lol not even then.)

[Heelsbythebridge]

Canada's favourite daughter is getting married!! To her beautiful teammate. Sapphic love > everything

[Nyctophilia]

It's so much worse than that. It's their entire identity and their entire life.

Normal people are out there learning trades and having conversations about all sorts of things, but these guys entire focus is on being gay.

I've seen very smart and productive people just fall off the face of the earth, look them up and they're all confused about gender all the time.

I looked and most of his recent tweets are about LGBT+ people too lol. So that's a bit hypocritical.

But again people do this when they feel suppressed and alienated. If you can't integrate it into your life and it's never been treated as 'a normal thing' it becomes an issue. I live in a place that's intolerant of trans and non-binary people so I know I can't be open about that. I'm not out to most of my family even. I can't trust therapists either in my country. And depending on your personality, you end up with a lot of internalised hatred/disgust etc too (I see this a lot, and personally experience that,) and then you never feel comfortable with anyone which is the case for me.

You go through life blind, always knowing something is very wrong. None of your sexual relationships work. Nobody explains to you why this is. So you basically have to become an amateur sexologist and historian to figure yourself out.

'Sexual disturbances' are also particularly bad because Humans are animals even though they like to pretend they're not so that's a huge part of most people's existence whether people want it to be or not. Also in all fairness Western society kind of removed all the things that [BEEP] people used to do to attempt to live ascetically or to have something else to focus on. In combination with a thousand+ years of 'let's pretend you don't exist at all, and this is fine (tm).' So... What did you expect really.

You don't think this is going to cause serious psychological/sexual issues for some people? Quote from a YouTuber (they rarely talk about these topics actually.)

I don't really have a sexual fantasy. Or I sort of discovered one actually... Recently. But it's quite hard to explain because it doesn't involve sexual intercourse it involves me being a dude. Because I identify as a dude. And one of my biggest roadblocks there is I cannot find anything sexy if the protagonist in my story is female. If I'm trying to feel feelings from a female perspective there is nothing sexy about that to me at all. So in all imaginings I have to be a dude. So uh, that's not really like a thing I can serve up.

[...]

Also there's the rather awkward fact that when it comes to sexual desire and the people I'm attracted to my type hasn't aged with me. Because my type is pretty, skinny, kind of androgynous boys who are not much taller than me ideally. I don't mind if they're a bit tall but ideally about my height which is 5'6". So about 5'6"-5'9" skinny, pretty, androgynous boys. You are rolling in those when you're in your late teens to early 20s when you're 34 good fucking luck. Good fucking luck even finding anyone who's skinny enough for me to find them attractive. Let alone like has hair, fairly androgynous, fairly pretty, doesn't exist in the age range I'm in now really. So yes basically destined for eternal singleness.

The YouTuber I'm quoting is a genderqueer guy I think. He's never forced people to use his preferred pronouns (uses he/they) and in fact more than any trans person I'm aware of in the public eye bends over backwards for cis people. Yet still gets [BEEP] in his comment section and it seems on reddit from people who feel like non-binary and trans people are forcing them at gunpoint to use certain language:

My concern stems from witnessing that people are being forced to use pronouns that don't align with neither the person's sex nor what they're presenting as, essentially forced to perceive someone in a way they genuinely don't, without being allowed to question this ideology at all, at least not without receiving personal attacks and vilification for even questioning. That is, if they manage to not get banned in the first place. Ultimately, forced speech is forced thought and I think that that's immoral especially if people aren't even allowed to question what they are being forced to think.

I first discovered Dorian from the old video on Eugenia. At the time I was not aware that Dorian identified as trans(?). I was confused when people in the comments were using he/him pronouns and attacking anyone who uses she/her. Then I saw someone write that Dorian identifies as a guy which frankly was shocking to me considering that Dorian doesn't present as a male, especially during the time I first discovered Dorian's channel they were wearing very feminine clothing that reveal their cleavage and from what I know about trans identified females, they have what they refer to as "gender dysphoria" and don't seem to be the type who would proudly show off their cleavage (although I think everyone should accept and embrace their bodies even if they have gender dysphoria but we'll get to that in a minute).

What I don't understand, is how an adult human female (Dorian frequently refers to themselves as female and isn't in denial of this fact) is a man and why others should be forced to perceive them as such.

For starters, what is a man?

A miserable little pile of secrets.



See if we just had something like this for women there'd be less of a debate haha.

They wrote an essay on reddit almost as long as this insanely long post haha. Ultimately it becomes clear they don't actually accept any trans people and think that anyone with gender dysphoria should learn to accept their own birth sex.

While Dorian may not be attempting to force others to use she/her pronouns, fans certainly are. Any time someone uses "she" they are met with language police who start keyboard fights if the user refuses to use "he" or "they".

Oh [BEEP] off. If it's such a problem go watch cis people's YouTube videos instead.

But you can't say that. You have to be tolerant and polite. Everything is always your fault. You're always unreasonable. And it's never enough evidently.

I know they have lots of people following from lolcow related websites too. Pretty much nothing has changed since the era where we had freak shows.

Speaking personally I have 5k subscribers on YouTube and make content that has nothing to do with trans or non-binary people (or LGBT+ topics though I do have lesbian, bisexual and gay characters in some videos. But I'm not doing respectability politics because [BEEP] these cunts especially right now. So I plan to include the topic as feels natural.) Within a community that is very LGBT+ positive and progressive (by coincidence, and I notice a bunch of people subscribed to me also follow trans and LGBT+ YouTubers,) and still have received an anonymous hate comment about being non-binary because I have pronouns in my YouTube bio lol. But I spoke about this before and there is some possibility the comment was from an insane stalker I attracted elsewhere (also a huge transphobe and radfem.) But it just proves to me that no matter what you do even while never bringing it up in video content and never showing your face. The merest expression like they/them pronouns will drive some people insane.

So yeah I think constantly about how I can't exist. It's on my mind a lot.

Focussing on such examples because the twitter poster specifically brought up gender and of course we're less integrated and I am non-binary with this sort of sexuality. I don't present as femininely as Dorian and I also have different comfort levels with body parts and other stuff, but we have a similar etiological background I think (it makes for a pretty frustrating existence though I'm not quite as limited as that):

Some female transhomosexuals become very restricted in their partner choice, seeking androgynous blend of male + female characteristics. This is not the same as having a wide range of sexual responsivity across the male-female continuum. Some of these subjects sought out only very effeminate homosexual men, transvestites, and transexuals, and one eventually became so specialised, she was on the lookout for only Klinefelter males. On the other hand, some subjects varied in their responsivity across the sex of their partners, but only if they were homosexual.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6830997/

Despite some increases in the social acceptance of non-binary, the literature highlights difficulties regarding visibility (Taylor, Zalewska, Gates, & Millon, 2018 ). This is evident at the level of individual subjectivity, for example 76% of non-binary people in the 2018 UK survey avoided expressing their gender identity due to fear of negative reactions (Government Equalities Office, 2018 ). The issue of invisibility is also pertinent to policy making and practice settings. For instance, where health monitoring systems use gender binary categories, NBGQ people are rendered invisible (see Jaspal, Nambiar, Delpech, & Tariq, 2018 ).

That's a pretty insanely high percentage. So that leaves the internet presumably for where people live and where he's probably noticed this. He's American but I doubt the difference will be huge. The internet isn't a supportive environment either for the most part. This is the internet:



JP doesn't realise that's going to happen regardless because you are non-binary. You don't get to choose how you feel. You're always going to be uncomfortable to some degree imo. Anyway my current direction is cyberpunk Anna Wintour Roman statue. The devil wears cyberdog. Only in my head though as I'm far too lazy these days.

prompthunt: greek marble statue riding a skateboard in ancient greece with other greek statues in the ...

Lol (not my prompt. Just came up when googling cyberpunk Anna Wintour Roman statue.) The vision though.

Slight tangent but there's a lot of cultural stuff in trans and non-binary communities too that I don't relate to like this (these are all comments on a YouTube video I just stumbled on):

I feel compelled to comment. I ran a Women and Non Binary event at a comic store. The desire was to remove the often intimidating factor of men in these spaces and to encourage community. We had a wide variety of turnout from people on the gender spectrum, including me! There is value in these spaces.

Right! Enbies need spaces away from men too!

I'm not intimidated by cis men. I'd feel weird in a space specifically designed to exclude them and I've been in spaces that were majority cis men many times. Excluding cis men from nerdy spaces is also pretty weird because they've always made up the majority of people in those spaces lol. Also I hate the term 'enby/enbies' because it sounds cutesy.

Also, personally I do gravitate towards Women and Nonbinary People Things because in my head that means 'NO MEN' and sorry boys but that is always a huuuge plus.

I'm bigender so why would I want to be in that kind of environment lol? Another troubling aspect of this whole thing is how a lot of people specify cis men. So you let trans men in? Not even just non-binary people. So it's just a weird group that discriminates against cis men then lol?

I am part of a kind of women and non-binary community, although it's women, trans and non-binary people. We definitely consider and welcome amab's, we didn't disregard them in the slightest and we're very happy for them to join... Providing they aren't cis men, because excluding them is what it's actually about.

in German leftist circles the term "flinta" has emerged which stands for the words for women, lesbians, intersex, non-binary, trans and agender (idk the history of why lesbians get their own letter). So that's basically anyone except cis men. Many peolpe use this term for spaces and events. It reeeeeally depends on the group itself though how inclusive they actually are and if a space is actually free for all flinta or if it gets gatekept from people that are read as male. I'm an afab enby person that mostly gets read as male and I wouldn't feel comfortable going to a flinta space where I don't know the organizers are actually inclusive of all trans people.

And another reason I'm not thrilled by this is I get blamed for the end result of this mentality lol. Personally I fucking hate this (I want to be sympathetic because on some level I get that at least for binary men and women they experience a great divide between each other and want separate spaces/cultures etc. It's a bit harder to tolerate in spaces that are LGBT+ because 'how can I even get away from this weird 'Heteropessimist'/heteronormative culture thing that's happening then?') And I get blamed for it lol as a afab non-binary person.

There are a lot of spaces that exclude amab people apparently because they're so toxic towards cis men that anyone who resembles a cis man in terms of appearance and/or body language etc is discriminated against and so people are always annoyed by this trend and start ranting about 'theyfabs' and such. Meanwhile you can't have a conversation about the blatant misandry in society within the trans community because half of them have convinced themselves misandry doesn't exist, and/or that there are 0 overlaps between the experiences of trans women or even trans femmes in general and cis men. They seem to think it's an insult to suggest there is or that it's invalidating in some way (that's the impression I get from many people.) They also have to invent ridiculous words to get around using the term misandry when talking about discrimination trans men experience like transandrophobia. Yet, a number of people actively hate and fear men and that absolutely influences the way some trans people are treated (of both sexes too.) Someone I follow basically said I was stupid for suggesting that misandry and a dislike/distrust of men might contribute to how trans women are treated lol (I even made clear that I didn't think it was the only factor just that it was one.) But it's very obvious to me that this does have an impact. A lot of feminists don't distinguish between cis men and hegemonic masculinity.

This is also more or less the gender model proposed by this annoying chaser guy who I argued with a bunch years ago. He has a blog + YouTube channel. Writes predominantly about trans women because he likes to defend straight trans women he finds attractive while insulting others, but has written some negative [BEEP] about trans men etc before too. Basically a lot of cultures divide people into 'men' and 'not men.' Typically 'not-men' is used to refer to genetic males who do not fit into the cis male role of being masculine and able to physically fight. But by dividing up gender in this way you invisibalise transmasculine people who aren't stealth and living as cis men. Which I think goes someway to explain why trans men have been less visible throughout history. The other factor is that femininity is fetishised more than masculinity and gets more attention obviously and trans women and feminine men are more likely to be demonised in various cultures especially if they're less feminine/passing.

It precisely describes a culture wherein 'men'; is a group made up exclusively of males, that is rigidly internally policed in terms of behaviours, and 'not-men' is everyone else, including women. In basic terms, if you don?t make the cut as a member of the 'men' group, you get put in the 'not-men' group. And being homosexual absolutely, in these cultures, disbars you from the 'men' group.

These groups, 'men' and 'not-men' are analogous to the hunter or 'away' group and the domestic or 'home' group respectively. This is the basis of human society; it is a system that exposes men to the greatest risk but protects mothers and children as much as possible. It has been massively successful.

Membership of the 'men' or 'away' group is conditional on passing certain tests, rituals etc and behaving in certain ways. Membership of the 'home' or 'not-men' group is not conditional on anything at all and people in it have considerable freedom of expression.

So a lot of the LGBT+ community agrees with this division. Clearly. Only they police it themselves lol.

And in a broader sense this relates to an older argument about butch/femme culture and the feminist movement and such:

For example, in many lesbian-feminist communities younger lesbians were ambivalent about femme/butch culture, viewing it as a pre-feminist anachronism that constituted an ill-advised alliance with patriarchy. Some Radicalesbians called butch/femme "male-identified role-playing among lesbians." One viewed butch women as lacking enlightened community and progressive political consciousness. She described them to sociologist Barbara Ponse as "rural women, farm women, country women who had no contact with any kind of gay community [and] really thought they must be like men." (Ponse, 252) Because this view conceived of femme/butch roles as irredeemably against feminist struggle, one woman who later identified as butch recalled to Ponse that it was "very hard" to identify as both butch and feminist "back in those days."

Historian Marc Stein has conjectured that this lesbian-feminist disapproval was both racialized and classed, because at this time, both white working-class lesbian culture and African American lesbian culture generally continued to be organized around butch/femme roles. (M. Stein, 350) Indeed, although lesbian feminists often used language aiming to speak for all women, only a few African American women and a few women over 40 participated in Radicalesbians. (M. Stein, 344) In one mainly white and middle-class Midwestern lesbian feminist community, those who lived in trailers, worked on farms, and were not college educated possessed an acute awareness that they were on the community's margins. (Krieger, 217, 219)

Lesbian-feminist disapproval of femme/butch culture was philosophically based on radical feminist assertions that all aspects of everyday life are highly politicized sites of potential resistance to patriarchy. (Taylor & Whittier, 358 ) However, to some, these expectations of lifestyle and of personal appearance became rules demarcating who most merited authentic membership in the community on the basis of her adherence to a proper kind of feminist politics. This ideal feminist politics frequently saw itself as devoted to the negotiation of new definitions of gender, such as by moving one?s appearance and demeanor toward androgyny.

Leslie Feinberg wrote about that a bit in Stone Butch Blues:

They drove us out, made us feel ashamed of how we looked. They said we were male chauvinist pigs, the enemy. It was women's hearts they broke. We were not hard to send away, we went quietly.

The plants closed. Something we never could have imagined.

That?s when I began passing as a man. Strange to be exiled from your own sex to borders that will never be home. You were banished too, to another land with your own sex, and yet forcibly apart from the women you loved as much as you tried to love yourself.

Are you in a lesbian bar looking out of the corner of your eye for the butchest woman in the room? Do the women there talk about Democratic politics and seminars and co-ops? Are you with women who only bleed monthly on their cycles?

Or are you married in another blue-collar town, lying with an unemployed auto worker who is much more like me than they are, listening for the even breathing of your sleeping children? Do you bind his emotional wounds the way you tried to heal mine?

Similar kind of thing. I think at this point it's less common based on identity alone and moreso how your perceived in comparison to cis men:

https://www.atpweb.org/jtparchive/trps-33-01-01-016.pdf

Most found pressures to conform to gender norms in the LGBT communities more disturbing than any from the mainstream. This pressure takes such forms as gay men being told not to behave in a "queeny" or "limp-wristed manner, and lesbians being told not to be so "butch" or "male-identified," and facing threats of exclusion if they should disclose their self-identifications as "not entirely women" in settings such as lesbian organizations. On the other hand, many participants also experienced pressure within transgender groups to "go all the way," with the assumption that their not crossing genders completely was a sign of indecisiveness or lack of courage to complete the process, rather than the legitimate expression of an intermediate identity.

Despite the lack of cultural context and having to carve out a sense of themselves without role models or mirroring--often in the face of abuse and denigration, and frequently while continuing to experience considerable pressures to conform to cultural and sub-cultural norms-as adults, the participants in this study led full, vibrant lives. Even without mentoring and guidance, they exhibit many of the characteristics and signifiers of vocation associated with established third-gender roles in non-Western cultures.

[BEEP] knows how the 'participants in this study' pulled that off lol. But this was 22 years ago.

Some people are at a point where they don't fit in with the vast majority of people anywhere. Which is obviously going to drive people insane.

But pretty much most LGBT+ people will have some negative experience with people. I've experienced being infantilised excessively and people commenting on my height and one person bullying me for that which is common for certain racial and sexual/gender minority groups (including white trans men.) Other things as well. This often overlaps between groups too. I've experienced homophobic harassment despite not being a lesbian, this lesbian YouTuber has experienced being harassed and chucked out of bathrooms where people assumed she's a man (transphobic) gets brought up at some point in this video:



This hasn't been a big issue for me personally though. The kind of 'walking around blind while always knowing something is wrong' thing has been more my issue. Till I was about 12 section 28 made it very difficult if not impossible for LGBT+ support groups to be set up, or for teachers to talk about LGBT+ people it had a lot of effects culturally in the UK. I ultimately knew homosexual people existed in primary school. I didn't know other groups of people existed until later.

TV and film was kind of mixed bag too. Trans and non-binary people were barely mentioned and usually just trans women being treated as a joke or that one film I never watched/didn't know about anyway about Brandon Teena's murder.

There are two characters in Sailor Moon who are in a sapphic relationship, who as recently as the 90s had to be re-written as cousins because America and perhaps the West in general (but we only get American dubs/edits,) couldn't handle that.

Spencer Reid was supposed to be bisexual in the 2000s but the network nixed that idea:

During October 2012, series creator Jeff Davis tweeted that Reid was originally envisioned to be bisexual, but the network shut the idea down by the fourth episode when Reid develops a crush on his colleague, Jennifer "JJ" Jareau.[35]

Willow in Buffy was obviously bisexual (like the most bisexual character lol,) but due to the general intolerance of the time, Joss Whedon couldn't do that:

Buffy creator says Willow couldn't be bisexual when the show was on air

"There are you things you can?t do, thanks to [the society at the time]," he explained.

"It [was] like, "OK, you can?t make Willow bi, you can't say this is a phase, because that's what people do to deny their existence. So, if I did it now, I'd be like yes she can be bi. Because some people are! But back then it was like, no we?re not ready for that."

I think this has improved a lot with bisexual characters like Rosa's storyline in Brooklyn 99. I didn't really ship her with Jocelyn though. They didn't have much screen time together before the show finished and I didn't really feel any chemistry there when they had scenes together. In fairness I ship together couples that make 0 sense all the time or are just outright enemies like April and Ann on Parks and Rec lol, so my opinion here is basically meaningless lol.

Anyway though I kind of resent this because straight and cisgender people aren't OK either. In fact Jordan Peterson has built most of his career out of the idea that '[straight, cis] Men aren't OK'



So you can do this, but others can't?

Personally when I was questioning, and then allowed myself to accept that (2015~) it became a huge cultural and political debate which wasn't good for me. Though parts of that time were less intense (since I'd been questioning since about 2010-2011~) I remember joining an LGBT forum where at least one moderator didn't believe non-binary people existed. Any other forum I was on involved a lot of debate over this topic. I think if you don't have a way to exist it becomes a way to express yourself or feel real? Humans don't really do very well when they feel alienated from communities. Case in point (though the schizophrenia didn't help her, and then isolation also induces schizophrenia-like behaviour):

"Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation and destroy the male sex."

Ronell believed that Solanas was threatened by the hyper-feminine women of the Factory that Warhol liked and felt lonely because of the rejection she felt due to her own butch androgyny. She believed Solanas was ahead of her time, living in a period before feminist and lesbian activists such as the Guerrilla Girls and the Lesbian Avengers.[66]

and obviously there's a huge ongoing political battle too which isn't easy to avoid.

I'll probably never be OK for the same reason a bunch of fictional villains seem to have this arc like Sephiroth and Loki where they have to learn about themselves as adults and they go crazy (which might be subconsciously pointing at a cultural issue, and oh hey Loki is genderfluid too,) but I haven't literally burnt down a village or tried to enslave the people of Earth so I'm not doing too bad. Hopefully in the future people can be 'OK' though if Western society improves.

I think Marvel's Loki is a very relatable character in spite of how bad he is as literal representation (at least in the MCU,) because he incorporates a lot of different [BEEP] experiences like (all of this will be spoilery)


when he finds out he's a frost giant in the first film and is like 'So I'm the monster parents tell their children about at night?'

A monster is that which cannot be placed in any of the taxonomic schemes devised by the human mind to understand and to order nature. It exceeds the very basis of classification, language itself: it is an excess of signification, a strange byproduct or leftover of the process of making meaning. It is an imaginary being who comes to life in language and, once having done so, cannot be eliminated from language.


So he has to deal with that and also his envy of Thor who is very classically masculine is I think relatable to a lot of people. I don't think it's that he wants to be Thor either he just wants his status. He says at one point 'there are no men like me' in response to an elderly man saying 'not to men like you' and you can obviously interpret that as a statement about him being an alien. He's not Human and he's currently on Earth. But I think it's more because he sees himself as a monster and completely alone. 'You could never have a frost giant sitting on the throne of Asgard.' He wasn't raised with frost giants and was actually abandoned by them for being too small. But at the same time he never fit in with Asgardians or his brother/dad. There's actually a scene talking about that that was deleted but is pretty important lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xONiNC2j0B4

Where Thor talks with his mum about Loki and asks her if she regrets sharing her talents with him. And she says no and that he and his father cast long shadows.

There are many different lenses you can use to view this stuff though. It's also been pointed out that there are biblical parallels to Satan and Jesus in Thor which I can see.

And then in the more recent Loki TV show of course there's Sylvie who I personally am confused by because she seems to be the enchantress (Sylvie Lushton) and I still figure that plot twist will happen at some point. They kind of fused two characters together... Why is she blond etc? Not that this is the first time they randomly decided to make Hela Thor and Loki's sister just so they could include her in the current MCU lineup and that really didn't work because they kept her original appearance and now Thor looks like the adopted one lol (why do they look the same?) But anyway he's like trying to explain to himself basically (alternative universe self) what he had to learn through the series of several MCU films. But she's not going to listen obviously.

I'm not super keen on the show really. A lot of the plot elements feel kind of rushed and eh. But 'eh' is the issue with a lot of the MCU it is in general like the film equivalent of fast food. But I think in general the appeal of the MCU and comic book films is that it replaces polytheism. This example is very blatant since some of these characters are very loosely based on Norse Gods but all of them really are just new Gods. And that imo is why it's not dying as quickly as other stuff. But yeah Hollywood is also risk averse and there's a dearth of good writers and *insert whatever other explanation you may have here* but no I think that they're filling in that cultural void is a part of it.

I think some people have claimed it's tied to the 'Hero generations' mentality. Which is some kooky theory 'The Strauss?Howe generational theory' that comes from a book called the Fourth Turning about generational patterns that seems kind of like pseudoscience but entertaining pseudoscience like the MBTI or astrology (I'm not personally into astrology but yeah. Obviously many people find it entertaining.) And I just noticed this channel also has a bunch of MBTI videos HAHAHA so you know.



Think this is the full 'episode' that's from:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbx4PnC_9CE

Also I just went to the wikipedia page for the theory and noticed someone described it using the word kooky it's true though!

[Heelsbythebridge]

Latvia won their first IIHF medal in epic fashion against the United States. Love historic moments like this.

[Nyctophilia]

I just realised I bought coach tickets for the wrong month. Luckily I noticed at the last minute and was able to change them that was really close.