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Thread: Guns in Schools

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    WineKitty's Avatar
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    Guns in Schools

    So I saw a thread on another forum that I am amazed anyone could possibly be in support of. Armed guards at EVERY school in America?

    I don't think anyone has thought through the cost of this rather ambitious endeavor.

    Or the fact that Virgina Tech had armed cops on campus and it DID NOT stop the murders that happened. I wonder how many people were armed at Ft. Hood, which is the biggest military installation IN THE WORLD...yet 13 people lost their lives in that shooting and 29 were wounded.

    Also, if a shooter KNOWS there is an armed cop of some kind, guess who is going to get shot first?

    I find it hilarious that those who carry on about a "police state" or "nanny state" come crying to the government in time of need. For those that go on about "smaller government" yet seem to want to increase it when it's convenient for them.

    Maybe we ought to just equip all kids attending schools with guns. We could get cute lil' pink ones for kindergarten girls. As they get older, they can get a higher power gun and have their favorite band on it. We could even get covers for them like we have for phones. And so once we have all the kids armed, and all the teachers armed, nothing bad will ever happen again, right????

    As stated in an earlier thread THE ANSWERS to this are not so simplistic. Oh...if ONLY!!!!
    "You can never really know a person and if you think you can, you're living in a fucking dream world!" David Fisher, Six Feet Under

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    Teacher should have guns but not visible for kids to see, to protect them. other then that no guns should be allowed.

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    WineKitty's Avatar
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    Why would a teacher have a gun? Where would it be kept? And is it really another thing to lay on the already underpaid teachers, besides the role of mentor, educator, babysitter, social worker etc? What kind of training would a teacher have to have? What if the shooter got in and shot up kids regardless of the teacher having a gun....would it then be the teacher's fault for not properly "protecting" the kids? Would there be legal grounds to sue? Would teachers get a raise for their sharpshooting training and skills?
    "You can never really know a person and if you think you can, you're living in a fucking dream world!" David Fisher, Six Feet Under

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    I didn't even read this whole thing (sorry) but I think ALL teachers having guns has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. "Sure lets fix the gun problem.....with more guns" perfectly logical. You're going to have teachers being irresponsible loosing them kids finding them etc. it's just not a good thing to have in a school environment and it doesn't solve the problem.

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    It's insane. It really is.

    It's a simplistic, paranoid, reactive, non-thought-out "solution" in the wake of another tragedy.

    Did everyone forget about the statistic that if you have a gun around (in your house), your chances of dying by a gun go way the hell up? There is no way I would send my kid to a school KNOWING there are guns there.

    Also how are teachers supposed to be "on guard" while they are also teaching? That is like combining 2 completely different full time professions into one person. Who wants that responsibility?

    And who's going to guard everyone on the busride home when the bus turns the corner and is hijacked by a student already on the bus. or non-student who shoves their way onto the bus?

    What about at the local parks or sports fields? The are wide open, so what's to stop anyone from doing a mass shooting right out in the open?

    What about elderly homes, and hospitals, and malls, and national sports arenas, etc? Wouldn't we have to guard them too?

    growl.....I really think we need to focus on what kind of a society do we want to live in? A peaceful open one, or a paranoid wild west one. or what? The thing is------NO MATTER WHICH ONE YOU PICK, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE CRIME. (altho there are ways to try to decrease it, we cannot prevent it and stop it from happening altogether.) I live in one where I go places and don't constantly worry about being shot everyday of my life. And that's how I want it to stay.

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    let teachers who want to carry, carry. I carry in my waistband. Also have armed plain clothes security.

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    WineKitty's Avatar
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    Again having a teacher carry brings about a myriad of questions. What are the answers to them? It's not a matter of saying "if they want to carry they can carry". See my post above, too lazy to retype the list of questions.
    "You can never really know a person and if you think you can, you're living in a fucking dream world!" David Fisher, Six Feet Under

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    making it mandatory for teachers to carry guns seems pretty stupid but if those teacher want to carry, they should indeed be allowed to.

    Quote WineKitty View Post
    Again having a teacher carry brings about a myriad of questions. What are the answers to them? It's not a matter of saying "if they want to carry they can carry". See my post above, too lazy to retype the list of questions.
    I don't think giving pink guns to kindergarten children was a question or something that was meant to be taken seriously, so that doesn't need to be addressed. I really only see one question so ill answer it.

    Also, if a shooter KNOWS there is an armed cop of some kind, guess who is going to get shot first?
    Most likely an UNARMED person, not a cop or armed teacher. You don't honestly think criminals seek out the toughest targets first, do you?

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    So do you honestly think that if you had the job of "guarding" a school you would be like a secret service agent, eyes constantly darting around for the smallest sign of foul play? Or do you think for most schools it would be a job that bored you to tears and you very well could be caught "OFF GUARD". The fact is this isn't going to happen at most schools.

    And there were very many "REAL" questions there (and I am adding a few too).

    Where would the gun be kept? What kind of liability would the school face if one of the kids got a hold of it. Is the teacher supposed to wear it holster style or is in a lockbox somewhere?

    Where are teachers supposed to get the necessary training to handle a weapon in a mass shooting situation and who is paying for it? Who is providing the gun? We cannot even afford, according to conservatives, to continue the WIC program to give milk and cereal to poor children under 5. Where is the funding for this coming from?

    Would there be legal grounds to sue the school, the school district or the teacher personally if a shooter DID get in and shot up kids regardless of the gun being around anyway? Shouldn't the teacher, now armed, been able to have prevented any deaths in their classroom?

    Shouldn't underpaid teachers be paid more for having to have sharpshooting skills?

    And why does anyone think having someone armed will prevent this from happening again? Why are MORE guns the answer? Again, how much weaponry was at Ft. Hood during that massacre? That is the largest military installation in the world, pretty sure there was some heavy duty weapons around.

    And what about V Tech? Two armed cops on campus at the time, yet over 30 died.

    The Columbine Cop fired four shots at Harris but missed. Another cop was there in minutes, and also fired and missed.

    My point is that arming teachers is not the answer. A lot of campuses have armed cops already yet it hasn't solved the problem. Because it keeps happening.
    "You can never really know a person and if you think you can, you're living in a fucking dream world!" David Fisher, Six Feet Under

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    So do you honestly think that if you had the job of "guarding" a school you would be like a secret service agent, eyes constantly darting around for the smallest sign of foul play?
    If you're a guard only, and that's what you're specifically getting paid for, you should do your job yes. I wouldn't expect a teacher to play 007 and teach at the same time. An armed teacher is pretty much only good for if a intruder enters that classroom, even then they probably wouldn't be very effective unless they're a Clint Eastwood character.

    Where would the gun be kept? What kind of liability would the school face if one of the kids got a hold of it. Is the teacher supposed to wear it holster style or is in a lockbox somewhere?
    They should be kept on the teacher, not in a lockbox where it is useless or in desk where children can get it. Any liability should rest on the teacher who is carrying, not the school. It should be the teachers decision whether they're armed or not.

    Where are teachers supposed to get the necessary training to handle a weapon in a mass shooting situation and who is paying for it? Who is providing the gun? We cannot even afford, according to conservatives, to continue the WIC program to give milk and cereal to poor children under 5. Where is the funding for this coming from?
    Training courses should be up to the teacher to pay for, since i don't think it should be mandatory to carry a firearm to begin with. They provide their own gun as well.

    Would there be legal grounds to sue the school, the school district or the teacher personally if a shooter DID get in and shot up kids regardless of the gun being around anyway? Shouldn't the teacher, now armed, been able to have prevented any deaths in their classroom?
    That's silly, of course not.
    Shouldn't underpaid teachers be paid more for having to have sharpshooting skills?
    No.
    And why does anyone think having someone armed will prevent this from happening again? Why are MORE guns the answer? Again, how much weaponry was at Ft. Hood during that massacre? That is the largest military installation in the world, pretty sure there was some heavy duty weapons around.

    And what about V Tech? Two armed cops on campus at the time, yet over 30 died.

    The Columbine Cop fired four shots at Harris but missed. Another cop was there in minutes, and also fired and missed.

    My point is that arming teachers is not the answer. A lot of campuses have armed cops already yet it hasn't solved the problem. Because it keeps happening.
    I don't think anyone thinks it would never happen again. It could deter a shooting, sure. I believe a burglary would be less likely to break into someones house knowing that the home owner is not only there, but armed.

    Anyways, they shouldn't necessary arm every teacher. Just allow them to carry a gun if they choose to.

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    We used to have a few police officers around our schools, inside around the front door. It was only in the high school. and I know that is extreme and they only have those types of enforcements in higher crime related area's. I don't think teaches should have guns, but at the very least some sort of protections for a disaster like this.
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    GH...you are seriously suggesting that teachers walk around with holstered guns in classrooms with small children in?

    "Training courses should up to the teacher to pay for..." Teachers aren't exactly highly paid and also cannot even get tax credits for buying supplies for there own classrooms. Teachers are already social workers, babysitters, instructors, referee's etc. I don't think they should have to worry about being a guard as well.

    And if you add a armed security guard at every school, again, where is the funding coming from? We are talking PUBLIC schools here, not expensive private schools that charge tens of thousands a year for the privileged of attending.

    How is liabilty a "silly" issue? Someone successfully sued McDonalds for coffee being hot. You cannot be suggesting that this couldn't be an issue?
    "You can never really know a person and if you think you can, you're living in a fucking dream world!" David Fisher, Six Feet Under

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    There were multiple lawsuits following Columbine and Virginia Tech.

    And again I will mention Ft. Hood. Plenty of security there, don't 'cha think?
    "You can never really know a person and if you think you can, you're living in a fucking dream world!" David Fisher, Six Feet Under

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    GH...you are seriously suggesting that teachers walk around with holstered guns in classrooms with small children in?
    If they choose to, sure. If the parents of these children fear the teacher bringing out his/her weapon to pass around for show and tell, they can enroll their child elsewhere.

    "Training courses should up to the teacher to pay for..." Teachers aren't exactly highly paid and also cannot even get tax credits for buying supplies for there own classrooms. Teachers are already social workers, babysitters, instructors, referee's etc. I don't think they should have to worry about being a guard as well.
    I'm not suggesting they should HAVE to worry about it. That's why i think it should be optional based on the teachers concerns, finances being one of the concerns i'm sure.

    And if you add a armed security guard at every school, again, where is the funding coming from? We are talking PUBLIC schools here, not expensive private schools that charge tens of thousands a year for the privileged of attending.
    A bake sale? Who knows...budgets can be cut somewhere if people feel the safety of these little angelic creatures known as children is so important.

    How is liabilty a "silly" issue? Someone successfully sued McDonalds for coffee being hot. You cannot be suggesting that this couldn't be an issue?
    Police officers are society's armed guards. Do you see the police being sued for old ladies being mugged? If a lawsuit were to happen, do you find it LIKELY that the police would lose this case? Of course you don't, because it is what? Silly.

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    Quote GoatHorned View Post
    If they choose to, sure. If the parents of these children fear the teacher bringing out his/her weapon to pass around for show and tell, they can enroll their child elsewhere.
    Nope, sorry it doesn't work like that. There are such things as "districts" based on where you live, you know that. And even if you were able to opt out, it would create havoc amongst schools and teacher to student ratios and such if everyone just "picked" what school in any given city that they would want there child to attend.


    I'm not suggesting they should HAVE to worry about it. That's why i think it should be optional based on the teachers concerns, finances being one of the concerns i'm sure.
    I can assure you the average teacher doesn't have funds for this. Because, of course, wouldn't parents demand the teacher have certain credentials, assuring them they know how to handle a weapon? There would have to be SOME kind of protocol would there not?


    A bake sale? Who knows...budgets can be cut somewhere if people feel the safety of these little angelic creatures known as children is so important.
    Oh, come on, T, now who is being silly? Education is already slashed down to the bare bones--if you want to take it out of the military budget that is fine with me. And when it is YOUR kid, yeah, it is an angelic little creature. If I had it all to do again, I might just homeschool my kid. But I didn't have that option back in the day.


    Police officers are society's armed guards. Do you see the police being sued for old ladies being mugged? If a lawsuit were to happen, do you find it LIKELY that the police would lose this case? Of course you don't, because it is what? Silly.
    So, what of the lawsuits that have followed mass shootings before and been successfully won. I am willing to bet the losing end of that lawsuit didn't find it "silly."
    "You can never really know a person and if you think you can, you're living in a fucking dream world!" David Fisher, Six Feet Under

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