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Thread: DSM V-Changes

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    DSM V-Changes

    So with DSM-V coming out in May, there's a lot of changes happening on it. Some you may have heard about:

    • Aspergers Syndrome no longer exists as a diagnosis-people diagnosed with it will either fall under a new diagnosis, Social Communications Disorder, or be diagnosed with High Functioning Autism
    • A new diagnosis called "Disruptive Tempter Deregulation Disorder" will diagnose children having temper tantrums as having a mental disorder. Then again, I suppose they were only misdiagnosed with "Pediatric Bipolar Disorder" before hand (And do not get my started on PBD. No, I don't think children with "PBD" have Bipolar disorder. Really. And PBD isn't in DSM 4 either...it's just a stupid fad created by psychiatrists who don't even diagnose with DSM 4's criteria, where "eating more carbs" is apparently a symptom of bipolar.)
    • Normal grief after a loved one dies becomes Major Depressive Disorder...which it wasn't in DSM 4
    • Normal forgetting which happens at old age is also a psychiatric disorder-Minor Neurocognitive Disorder...but there is no cure for it, or treatment, and all it will do is panic a whole load of people.
    • Eating more than you usually do twelve times in three months means you have "Binge Eating Disorder". And no, this does not take into account the holiday period.
    • People who abuse substances for the first time are placed in the same groups as addicts with serious problems.
    • Changes in the Anxiety definition...meaning that everyday worries can become an anxiety disorder treatable with psychiatric medication.


    I'm not so sure about half of these, really. I don't live in a country where DSM is used to diagnose (Over here, we use IDC or something...) so it won't really affect me much. Still, these changes worry me. I'd like to think that psychiatrists will have some sense and work out what the difference is between a genuine psychiatric disorder and what isn't...but well...
    I'M GONNA FIGHT 'EM ALL
    A SEVEN NATION ARMY COULDN'T HOLD ME BACK.......


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    Antidote's Avatar Rude & Shouty
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    I really need to see the revised DSM to get an accurate idea of what the changes are and what that entails. I understand it will be more inline with clinical research and will take a more dimensional / spectral rather than categorical approach towards mental illness, which I agree with.

    I'm curious about Minor Neurocognitive Disorder, but I'm way too tired and depressed right now to bother looking it up. But I know cognitive slowing is natural in old age. Some get it more than others. Not sure why they're making this a diagnosis. I can't say anything about the anxiety and drug addiction criteria. Need to see it.

    Grief can certainly turn into a major depressive disorder for some people. The DSM is not referring to 'normal' grief reactions as a major depressive disorder. The depressive disorder criteria in the previous version excluded those who were suffering bereavement for up to 2 months. But the new version now recognises that severe, protracted grief reactions can also be characterised by depression.

    Binge eating disorder is a real eating disorder that was previously categorised under 'Eating Disorder Not Otherwise Specified' (EDNOS). It's an extremely common eating disorder and a significant contribution to obesity so it's about time it got recognition.

    Also, I do believe children can have bipolar disorder. I had what I believe was a childhood bipolar illness, and it wasn't characterised by temper tantrums and it was never diagnosed because I kept it secret. I suffered from extreme highs and lows usually within the same day (rapid cycling) to the point where I experienced delusions. I also became hypomanic for an entire year and became quite popular during that time, before my mood descended into a chronic depression for most of my teenage years.

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    Hate this book - so easy to stick a label on anyone and anything - if you find your not "normal" look through this and find your disorder
    life---> <---me

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    pam's Avatar needs more cowbell
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    Over a year ago i happened to be researching grief because I hadn't "finished grieving" my mother who died when I was little. I came across the term "Complicated Grief." It covers things such as an extended, or a stunted, grieving process (like mine), grieving for people who committed suicide or who were murdered, etc. Deaths that were very shocking and unnatural, or witnessed. Other examples would be like when a 12 yr old girl's abusive father dies--very mixed feelings there to have to deal with. And the point is that these people would need special help for grieving in these unique situations......I didn't care at the time, but I remember now that you mention it, that they were also hoping or saying that "Complicated Grief" would finally be included as a real diagnosis in the DSM-V, but that it had to have special features to separate it from "normal" grieving. Part of the reason they said it needed a special category was so that every time someone dies and a person is upset--they can't just go on antidepressants. That's no way to deal with normal loss.

    I like the binge eating one--I can finally come out of the closet on that one! Just joking, that's crazy.

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    pam's Avatar needs more cowbell
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    Quote lasair View Post
    Hate this book - so easy to stick a label on anyone and anything - if you find your not "normal" look through this and find your disorder
    I collect psychology and psychotherapy books but the DSM is one book I have avoided buying for the reason you mention. I've never even looked at one....I will have to I guess (if I ever become a therapist), but until then, I don't care what it says really.

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    Quote Antidote View Post
    Also, I do believe children can have bipolar disorder. I had what I believe was a childhood bipolar illness, and it wasn't characterised by temper tantrums and it was never diagnosed because I kept it secret. I suffered from extreme highs and lows usually within the same day (rapid cycling) to the point where I experienced delusions. I also became hypomanic for an entire year and became quite popular during that time, before my mood descended into a chronic depression for most of my teenage years.
    I know children can have bipolar disorder, the fact is, there's a lot of children out there who have temper tantrums that are DX'ed with pediatric bipolar. I'm not sure about this diagnosis at all...I have bipolar disorder so I looked into it. The list of symptoms used are completley different from the ones used to diagnose "adult bipolar". Some of the things on that list of symptoms are "cravings for carbohydrates" (Which is a load of rubbish really, I don't have ny sort of carbohydrates cravings) and "sleeps in late" (Which I thought was normal teenage behavior.). PBD also claims that children cycle more frequently than adults, several times a day. There's only a few adults with bipolar who cycle like this (something called "Ultradian cycling"), yet pretty much every child diagnosed with PBD apparently cycles several times a day, characterised by the fact that they have temper tantrums and pretty bad behavior.

    What also got me when looking into this was an explanation for parents on a website about PBD about why a child with PBD only screams at Mom, and no-one else...sorry, but when I'm hypomanic and in that mood, I'm gonna scream at anyone who ticks me off...family, friends, strangers on the street if the pis me off enough.

    I'm not saying bipolar doesn't exist in children. It's just 4000x more children have been diagnosed with it than before, and you're giving them pretty strong drugs with serious side effects that could do god knows what damage to a childs brain, and to be honest, a lot of the stories I read about about kids with PBD, well, it sounds more like ADHD, ODD, Aspergers, than bipolar really.

    Quote lasair View Post
    Hate this book - so easy to stick a label on anyone and anything - if you find your not "normal" look through this and find your disorder
    We don't use it here. We use something else called ICD-10 which I haven't really looked into as much as DSM. So the Aspergers diagnosis is still a valid diagnosis here, and isn't being replaced by "Social Communications Disorder" or "High Functioning Autism"
    I'M GONNA FIGHT 'EM ALL
    A SEVEN NATION ARMY COULDN'T HOLD ME BACK.......


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    Quote Otherside View Post

    We don't use it here. We use something else called ICD-10 which I haven't really looked into as much as DSM. So the Aspergers diagnosis is still a valid diagnosis here, and isn't being replaced by "Social Communications Disorder" or "High Functioning Autism"
    We use both here I think, but thankful I am a nurse and I don't make diagnoses
    life---> <---me

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    compulsive's Avatar
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    "A person having a major depressive episode usually exhibits a very low mood, which pervades all aspects of life, and an inability to experience pleasure in activities that were formerly enjoyed. Depressed people may be preoccupied with, or ruminate over, thoughts and feelings of worthlessness, inappropriate guilt or regret, helplessness, hopelessness, and self-hatred"


    This doesn't describe normal grief. If it is only for a short time its not major depression. Grief can cause major depression, but grief itself is NOT major depression. The cause is irrelevant. The effect is the only thing that matters. If they are depressed over the death but can still continue daily life and enjoy hobbies, its not major depression let alone major depressive disorder.

    There should instead be bereavement depression for short lasting cases of depression when someone dies.

    People who actually do fit the symptoms and it doesnt just go away and it happened to be caused by someone dying , they have majour depression / majour depression. This would be atypical bereavement.

    In summary: Fitting criteria is everything. Cause is irrelevant. Normal bereavement is not a disorder of any kind.

    Also I binge and I dont have binge eating disorder. Simply depression + stress --> over eat. Happens to a lot of people, but most dont have binge eating disorder.

    its the same with anxiety disorders and every other disorder.

    It just encourages more people to tell you to suck it up and get over it because they have apparently experienced the same thing.

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    I think the key word in all of this is 'disorder'. When it actually hinders your life and normal functioning. I'd really like to see the new DSM. A lot of new research is happening, a lot of breakthroughs have been made, and I would expect the DSM to incorporate this. It's 'natural' that the number of diagnosable mental illnesses will increase and that definitions will change.

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    Dissociative Identity Disorder
    "Several changes to the criteria for dissociative identity disorder have been made in DSM-5. First, Criterion A has been expanded to include certain possession-form phenomena and functional neurological symptoms to account for more diverse presentations of the disorder. Second, Criterion A now specifically states that transitions in identity may be observable by others or self-reported. Third, according to Criterion B, individuals with dissociative identity disorder may have recurrent gaps in recall for everyday events, not just for traumatic experiences. Other text modifications clarify the nature and course of identity disruptions." DSM V

    I don't mind the losing time part in every day events which is something I've done..............and not just forgetting the traumatic stuff. But I see they've add possession to the mix. Greaatttt. *sarcastic* Yes, I do understand that possession can and does happen. But there is enough people out there who don't understand DID. Now we're going back to the archaic......he/she's possessed. Do you know what it's like to be on the receiving end of some crazed church woman spouting words at me like "Satan, be gone!" It would be nice if all counselors understood DID. I've been pumped with anti-psychotic meds over 10 years, a lady screamed demon exorcising words at me at this church I went to, and everyone just pretty much runs screaming.

    You know guys. I know SA is misunderstood and often underdiagnosed. I only have a little of that (seems pretty much gone recently) due to one of my alters. But I certainly understand your frustration. When will people understand what we have??
    The Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about

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    Quote Coffee View Post
    I think the key word in all of this is 'disorder'. When it actually hinders your life and normal functioning. I'd really like to see the new DSM. A lot of new research is happening, a lot of breakthroughs have been made, and I would expect the DSM to incorporate this. It's 'natural' that the number of diagnosable mental illnesses will increase and that definitions will change.
    To me, I consider the word "disorder" to be when an illness is either causing problems for you and you're struggling (like us guys on here do with anxiety) or when it's causing serious problems for other people (But you maybe don't consider it a disorder, EG-Antisocial personality disorder). I know a lot of people with Schizoid PD don't like to consider what they have a disorder, and I can see there point. It's not bothering them, and it doesn't really bother many other people. I'm not sure about half the new diagnosis's though. I know Aspergers is probably over diagnosed, but it's been an established diagnosis for years, and I'm sure there are people that have it. I know Bipolar is overdiagnosed in children, and a lot of the children with pediatric bipolar don't seem to have bipolar. I'm sure some do, but a lot just seem to have temper tantrums, and bipolar is more than that. I just don't know what to think of DSM.

    Quote chantellabella View Post
    Dissociative Identity Disorder
    "Several changes to the criteria for dissociative identity disorder have been made in DSM-5. First, Criterion A has been expanded to include certain possession-form phenomena and functional neurological symptoms to account for more diverse presentations of the disorder. Second, Criterion A now specifically states that transitions in identity may be observable by others or self-reported. Third, according to Criterion B, individuals with dissociative identity disorder may have recurrent gaps in recall for everyday events, not just for traumatic experiences. Other text modifications clarify the nature and course of identity disruptions." DSM V

    I don't mind the losing time part in every day events which is something I've done..............and not just forgetting the traumatic stuff. But I see they've add possession to the mix. Greaatttt. *sarcastic* Yes, I do understand that possession can and does happen. But there is enough people out there who don't understand DID. Now we're going back to the archaic......he/she's possessed. Do you know what it's like to be on the receiving end of some crazed church woman spouting words at me like "Satan, be gone!" It would be nice if all counselors understood DID. I've been pumped with anti-psychotic meds over 10 years, a lady screamed demon exorcising words at me at this church I went to, and everyone just pretty much runs screaming.

    You know guys. I know SA is misunderstood and often underdiagnosed. I only have a little of that (seems pretty much gone recently) due to one of my alters. But I certainly understand your frustration. When will people understand what we have??
    Wow, haven't heard of people acting like that since the bible times. I'm pretty sure all these people that are mentioned to be possed by demons in the bible probably have mental illness's-Schizophrenia, bipolar, maybe DID. They just didn't understand it then. Pretty horrible that you have to go through that in this day and age though, when we're supposed to be "tolerant" or people with mental illness. DID seems to be one that is misunderstood though. You even get psychiatrists who debate whether it exists or not. I suppose a schizophrenic could act as though he/she had two personalities. But that would be the psychosis, I guess. I don't know... It's gotta be frustrating though when your illness just isn't understood and told it doesn't exist, when you know fine well it exists because you're the one who has it.
    I'M GONNA FIGHT 'EM ALL
    A SEVEN NATION ARMY COULDN'T HOLD ME BACK.......


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    Where is everyone getting this info from btw? I've been googling around and I can't find a solid source and APA website seems to have gone a little loopy and things have been taken down and moved. I've found a couple of websites but they aren't exactly reputable, haha.

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    There has been something of a debate amongst therapists about the changes to the DSM.

    Please be assured that your psychotherapist, psychologist and/or psychiatrist is trained to use their own judgement as well as to consult guidelines on diagnosis. We don't diagnose from a book. We talk to the person who wants help and find out what's going on for him/her. If you are unsure of anything before or during a therapy session, ask questions. It's 100% fine to do so and we're happy to answer your questions.

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    pam's Avatar needs more cowbell
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    Quote chantellabella View Post
    Dissociative Identity Disorder
    "Several changes to the criteria for dissociative identity disorder have been made in DSM-5. First, Criterion A has been expanded to include certain possession-form phenomena and functional neurological symptoms to account for more diverse presentations of the disorder. Second, Criterion A now specifically states that transitions in identity may be observable by others or self-reported. Third, according to Criterion B, individuals with dissociative identity disorder may have recurrent gaps in recall for everyday events, not just for traumatic experiences. Other text modifications clarify the nature and course of identity disruptions." DSM V

    I don't mind the losing time part in every day events which is something I've done..............and not just forgetting the traumatic stuff. But I see they've add possession to the mix. Greaatttt. *sarcastic* Yes, I do understand that possession can and does happen. But there is enough people out there who don't understand DID. Now we're going back to the archaic......he/she's possessed. Do you know what it's like to be on the receiving end of some crazed church woman spouting words at me like "Satan, be gone!" It would be nice if all counselors understood DID. I've been pumped with anti-psychotic meds over 10 years, a lady screamed demon exorcising words at me at this church I went to, and everyone just pretty much runs screaming.

    You know guys. I know SA is misunderstood and often underdiagnosed. I only have a little of that (seems pretty much gone recently) due to one of my alters. But I certainly understand your frustration. When will people understand what we have??
    I read in a book somewhere (not the DSM) that subjectively feeling as if you are possessed can be a sign of dissociation. It made sense to me because i did feel like that several times as a late teen and young adult. But for people to actually believe in possession is another thing! I never really believed in that.
    Drug-free and Happy

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    Quote lasair View Post
    Hate this book - so easy to stick a label on anyone and anything - if you find your not "normal" look through this and find your disorder
    Ha ha.....yeah True that !!!

    Reminds me of that song....I just want to be okay be okay be okay...I just want to be okay today

    I just want to feel alright feel alright I just want to feel alright tonight.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gINtHqwjr2M

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