A Second Chance

[merc]

Those with SA................can you believe a taunter has changed?

Interesting topic

I'm 47. A few years ago I ran into an old nemesis, back in high school she was very well-dressed, her Mom owned a small clothing boutique. She was mean and not so nice at least not to me.

She is a bit different. She is 47. She has kids a daughter and son somewhere near the ages of my children. She has some weight issues not super heavy but definitely not slender. She is very involved with her kids. She was a girl scout troop leader not my daughter's but same group but different troop. At some girl scout function she lost two of her troop and was frantic. I knew where they went and let her know.

She was nice to me and rather friendly. We talked a little about how hard it was to fit in in high school and our worries about our kids. I was the one who was stand-offish as are a few other of her victims. I truly think she has changed for the better, but I know of one other mutual classmate who absolutely refuses to have anything to do with her. I remember the mean things she said and did. It is just hard to equate the pudgy middle age woman she has become with the queen of mean.

[life]

I can understand this, especially if the two people were children or people incapable of defending themselves. Were these people able to talk to their aggressor? Say they were hurt? yes = made a difference =no

[pam]

I agree with Antidote, in her first paragraph describing how if you communicate clearly and try to explain and straighten it out (and that has to be by both parties), and it STILL is a problem, then yeah, maybe they don't deserve another chance. I agree there does come a point where you're just asking for it/being a doormat. (I have some experience doing that myself--being a doormat. But not anymore.)

Thank you Cindy for saying that.

As far as your brother goes, he's had these feelings for decades now, so they could be so strong just because time has gone by without anything changing. But how was anything supposed to change when he didn't tell you he was mad or hurt, and, you didn't know how things affected him. There wasn't really an opportunity to clear anything up. Since it happened in your childhoods, you were not really responsible for him, so you cannot hold yourself responsible because you were trying to survive also. He obviously saw you as more than just a sister even tho you weren't his parent. Anyway, I'm sure you know all this....Have you talked to him about it? Have you apologized for hurting him? And leaving him behind? (NOT saying you're guilty, but there's nothing wrong with letting him know you feel bad that it hurt him so much). Have you ever been involved with each other's lives as adults? Actually I'm no expert on siblings. I've been estranged from my sister for...ever. Some things aren't repairable but not if both of you want to try!

All you can do is show him how you feel bad about not being aware that he was so hurt by you leaving, and then the ball's kind of in his court. I hope he can see you never had any bad intentions toward him!

[Chantellabella]

Those with SA................can you believe a taunter has changed?

Interesting topic

I'm 47. A few years ago I ran into an old nemesis, back in high school she was very well-dressed, her Mom owned a small clothing boutique. She was mean and not so nice at least not to me.

She is a bit different. She is 47. She has kids a daughter and son somewhere near the ages of my children. She has some weight issues not super heavy but definitely not slender. She is very involved with her kids. She was a girl scout troop leader not my daughter's but same group but different troop. At some girl scout function she lost two of her troop and was frantic. I knew where they went and let her know.

She was nice to me and rather friendly. We talked a little about how hard it was to fit in in high school and our worries about our kids. I was the one who was stand-offish as are a few other of her victims. I truly think she has changed for the better, but I know of one other mutual classmate who absolutely refuses to have anything to do with her. I remember the mean things she said and did. It is just hard to equate the pudgy middle age woman she has become with the queen of mean.

Funny how time can change things. I know for myself that when I remember someone as being a certain way, I picture them in that time frame. Maybe that's what contributes to our views of them as people. We see them as still a high school bully. It seems that the reality of time changing her appearance, helped you see her in a different light. I wonder if your friend saw her today or got to know her would still put her in the high school bully role.

I'm embarrassed to say, I have a 75 year old aunt, who believes in that black and white, love/hate way and if you've crossed her once, you'll never get a second chance. I asked her one time if she would be grateful if people forgave her or didn't judge her. Her answer............"I never make mistakes. I'm perfect." She was serious. That's got to be a sad way to live.

I can understand this, especially if the two people were children or people incapable of defending themselves. Were these people able to talk to their aggressor? Say they were hurt? yes = made a difference =no

I can see why it would be hard to trust that person. I've had situations like that and for me though, I had to let it go. It was just draining to hang onto such futile anger. No, I probably wouldn't trust the people, but spending the energy to hate them just made me feel bitter. So I let it go to lift my burden. Not saying anyone has to do that. I guess it was because I know how I've hurt others and been forgiven, so I just felt better no longer dwelling on their behavior or actions.

[Chantellabella]

I agree with Antidote, in her first paragraph describing how if you communicate clearly and try to explain and straighten it out (and that has to be by both parties), and it STILL is a problem, then yeah, maybe they don't deserve another chance. I agree there does come a point where you're just asking for it/being a doormat. (I have some experience doing that myself--being a doormat. But not anymore.)

Thank you Cindy for saying that.



As far as your brother goes, he's had these feelings for decades now, so they could be so strong just because time has gone by without anything changing. But how was anything supposed to change when he didn't tell you he was mad or hurt, and, you didn't know how things affected him. There wasn't really an opportunity to clear anything up. Since it happened in your childhoods, you were not really responsible for him, so you cannot hold yourself responsible because you were trying to survive also. He obviously saw you as more than just a sister even tho you weren't his parent. Anyway, I'm sure you know all this....Have you talked to him about it? Have you apologized for hurting him? And leaving him behind? (NOT saying you're guilty, but there's nothing wrong with letting him know you feel bad that it hurt him so much). Have you ever been involved with each other's lives as adults? Actually I'm no expert on siblings. I've been estranged from my sister for...ever. Some things aren't repairable but not if both of you want to try!

All you can do is show him how you feel bad about not being aware that he was so hurt by you leaving, and then the ball's kind of in his court. I hope he can see you never had any bad intentions toward him!

You made me realize that I shouldn't give up. I need to try harder to clear things up and get into his life. At least if he gets annoyed with me, or yells at me, well, it's at least some contact. Thank you for your advice.



What about others? I'd like to hear from members. How do you discern between giving others a chance and saying enough is enough?

[compulsive]

If they intended to hurt me then I will not forgive ever. Especially if I am still afraid of them.

[Chantellabella]

If they intended to hurt me then I will not forgive ever. Especially if I am still afraid of them.

Thanks for sharing this. I hear you on this side of the coin also. There are a few people in my life who out right lied to cover their butts. In doing so, I got hurt. These people are harder to give chances (at least for me).

Maybe because I'm my age, but I've gotten to the point where I've stood up to all the bullies in my life. I'm not afraid of them anymore, nor give them power over me. Standing up to them, finally allowed me to see how sad and pathetic they really are. They feel so bad about themselves that they have to push others around to feel better. I pity them. I guess since I no longer feel powerless over them, and actually pity their cowardice, I can also see them as people rather than monsters. As people would I give them a second chance? I might. I wouldn't trust them or be vulnerable around them until they showed me they got help and was truly sorry. And they would have to own up to their behavior and make amends. But I believe I will still treat them decently rather than seek revenge.

I'm in a situation right now where I hopefully will be leaving the environment of a past bully. If I manage to do that, it would be great. My mind has played over and over how I would break the news to this person and my instinct is to be very smug, arrogant and damaging. But that's not what my heart knows is right. If I end up leaving, I have to look at the person for who she is. ........... a scared, unhealthy individual who hasn't figured out how to get her needs met without hurting others. But she also has a good heart too and tries to make amends (albeit unsuccessfully, but she tries). I just don't think I can be bitter about it anymore. She makes her own misery and lives in it. There is nothing I can say or do that would change the past. I can just keep going forward. Will I trust her? Probably not. Will I give her a chance to change. Definitely. Especially if I end up not leaving. I already see change as she reacts to my change.

Anyway, I'm rambling here. Thank you though, complusive, for sharing. I totally get where you're coming from. It's very hard to give someone a chance when you're still afraid.

[takethebiscuit]

For me, forgiveness is different from giving someone a second chance. There have been some deep hurts done to me over the years but keeping hold of those hurts does nothing for me. Keeping hold of them weighed me down. Quite literally in fact as I tend to put on weight when I'm sad or depressed. I can't always make up with people who've hurt me or people I've hurt. But I don't hold any grudges anymore and I've made an effort to make sure that no anger, hate or aggression comes from my side anymore.

I don't have to like someone to forgive them or have that person back in my life. It's just that life is short so why have it full of anger, hurt, hate and pain? This is just a personal way of looking at things. And it took a long time and a lot of soul searching to come up with.

[Chantellabella]

For me, forgiveness is different from giving someone a second chance. There have been some deep hurts done to me over the years but keeping hold of those hurts does nothing for me. Keeping hold of them weighed me down. Quite literally in fact as I tend to put on weight when I'm sad or depressed. I can't always make up with people who've hurt me or people I've hurt. But I don't hold any grudges anymore and I've made an effort to make sure that no anger, hate or aggression comes from my side anymore.

I don't have to like someone to forgive them or have that person back in my life. It's just that life is short so why have it full of anger, hurt, hate and pain? This is just a personal way of looking at things. And it took a long time and a lot of soul searching to come up with.

I like what you said, "I don't have to like someone to forgive them or have that person back in my life." That's neat how you're able to separate those aspects. I've forgiven people, but don't want them in my life. I've often wondered if I truly forgave them if I no longer wanted to be around them. But I hear you saying that's possible. Thanks for sharing that. Great discussion! I'm really liking all the sharing of your thoughts on this.

[Trendsetter]

I'd rather just forgive and move on. Holding grudges do nothing but set me back, waste energy, and remain bitter. For whoever did me wrongly, I forgive them, no matter what they did. Being friends is a lot better than being enemies.

[takethebiscuit]

I like what you said, "I don't have to like someone to forgive them or have that person back in my life." That's neat how you're able to separate those aspects. I've forgiven people, but don't want them in my life. I've often wondered if I truly forgave them if I no longer wanted to be around them. But I hear you saying that's possible. Thanks for sharing that. Great discussion! I'm really liking all the sharing of your thoughts on this.

I think you can forgive and walk away. If someone is a bad influence in your life or generally toxic then it doesn't make sense to let them back in your life. That doesn't mean that you have to hold a grudge against them or anger and hate towards them. In that case, I think forgiveness is about drawing a line under things.

Healing a relationship is, I feel, a different matter. Forgiveness does not suddenly reverse time or make everything okay again. Trust needs to be worked on, old hurts have to be healed in whatever ways they need to be healed. I think forgiveness starts a healing process but it doesn't finish it.

[Chantellabella]

I think you can forgive and walk away. If someone is a bad influence in your life or generally toxic then it doesn't make sense to let them back in your life. That doesn't mean that you have to hold a grudge against them or anger and hate towards them. In that case, I think forgiveness is about drawing a line under things.

Healing a relationship is, I feel, a different matter. Forgiveness does not suddenly reverse time or make everything okay again. Trust needs to be worked on, old hurts have to be healed in whatever ways they need to be healed. I think forgiveness starts a healing process but it doesn't finish it.

I hear you about trust needing to be worked on. Do you think there's some point where you can say, "Ok. I'm going to give you a second chance." Like is there some magic number in the trust timeline to do that?

I know this all sounds like black and white thinking. I just feel bad when I don't give people a second chance, but there's a healthy point to do it and a not so healthy point. I know this is pretty subjective and depends on the people involved, level of mistrust, level of hurt. I'm just trying to discern what others think is that healthy point where they are willing to take the leap and give people another try.

I'd rather just forgive and move on. Holding grudges do nothing but set me back, waste energy, and remain bitter. For whoever did me wrongly, I forgive them, no matter what they did. Being friends is a lot better than being enemies.

I actually envy people like you, my friend. You have such a forgiving heart. I'm too much of a control freak to let people get off that easy. I feel they have to bend over backwards in the trust department before I'll give them a second chance. But at the same time, I'm expecting/hoping for that second chance.

I guess I need to think about the saying, "do unto others...............huh?" Trendsetter I've known you for a year now and I have to say that you're very lucky. You have a forgiving heart and I can see why you deserve all the second chances you can get from others. I'm not so sure I deserve them after discussing this with you guys. I see where I have double standards.

Thank you guys for posting in this thread. It's really neat to see the views of everyone. I know having SA, we've come across our fair share of bullies and people who have hurt us. Especially if you have PTSD due to abuse. Anyone else struggle with this situation?

[takethebiscuit]

Okay, here goes:

If someone hurts me and shows clear evidence that they do actually care about me, I will more often than not meet them halfway. A genuine "sorry" goes a long way in my book too but I've learned a lot about guilt these past few months and I'm no less inclined to want another person to feel guilty

So, I guess, the healthy point for me would be when I've seen evidence that the person cares about me and cares about making things up with me. Not that it all has to come from them. But that there is some sort of movement on their side to heal things.

Now, I am aware that this can be a bad strategy. For starters, it relies on other people having to do things before I feel I can heal hurts that are affecting me as well as affecting other people. And some people are just not going to be interested in healing things. People react to conflict in many different ways and some people just want to move on and not deal with it.

That's why I took the decision to forgive people regardless of how they responded. If they want to heal the hurt that was caused then I'm happy to be an active party in that healing process. But I won't intrude into a person's life when I'm not wanted or demand that another person change how they feel. Pain from the past eats. That's all it does. It eats you and it eats your social groups and it eats your life if you let it. Each case is obviously different depending on what actually happened. But keeping hold of that stuff is like hurting yourself over and over again. Life kicked you in the stomach once or twice or whatever and so you keep remembering it, keep going over the bad memories, the anger etc and you keep kicking yourself in the stomach.

[Otherside]

Okay, I've been thinking about this for a while. My answer is no, I'm not sure about it, really. I guess it kinda depends on what they did and why they did it.

The people who bullied me throughout primary...No. I want nothing to do with any of them.

There's also someone I know, an apparent friend, who ditched me and pretended I didn't exist throughout most of last year when I had pretty bad bipolar disorder. Her reasoning? Her parents told her not to talk to me and she herself was having a [BEEP] time. She knew I was suicidal at the time, I also stupidly told her I OD'd. We supposedly agreed to be civil. We made up. I saw her today. She blanked me. But then I guess I didn't exactly talk to her either. But heck, SA. It's awkward enough with her, and I'm not sure I want to talk to her. Something did happen in December, something serious. Her acting as if I didn't exist was one of the factors that led to it in December. I'm not sure what I want to do, whether I'm supposed to forgive her for that.I don't ditch people just become I'm having a [BEEP] time and so are they. I had bipolar, I was suicidal and I was having a really [BEEP] time. She knew that.

I'm not sure if I can give her a second chance. Not after when happened in December.

But, I have said this before on another post, and I'll say it again. I'm not going to talk about what happened. Please don't ask me if you do talk to me. Please respect that.

[pam]

I guess I don't actually choose to forgive, but i do choose to control my behavior and I don't try to get revenge, lol....I daydream abut it, but choose not to do it.

Abusers never say they are sorry, at least not in my experience.

I've handed out second and millionth chances, but to people who didn't even ask for them! That was kind of stupid....

Maybe it all comes down to a person just simply saying "Will you give me a second chance?" Honestly, if anyone, and I mean anyone--even my a-hole family, ever said that to me, I'd definitely say yes.