Internet Privacy

[Koalafan]

I agree with WineKitty, no one has said this is okay, we simply stated a fact that this has been going on for years. The NSA was created in 1952 under Truman and this type of surveillance has been going on since then, always under the guise of protecting the US. Plenty of people are and have been outraged, The American Civil Liberties Union has filed lawsuits under 4th Amendment Rights as has EFF, the Electronic Frontier Foundation - civil liberties organization that has filed a class action lawsuit against AT&T for spying against US citizens. And you can bet that now all the news organizations, liberal and conservative, will be having a field day with this. Have you ever just googled your name, real or internet user, and read what pops up? Does that also concern you?

Edit: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...6tX9b7jUBxk2xw

Took me exactly 15 seconds to find this.

Oh! As I mentioned to Winekitty I am very aware of, and have long debated, privacy concerns...especially when it comes to google . Right now I actually use duckduckgo for most of my searches and have recently tanked my gmail account and yes I have googled myself plenty of times . Hell I would use TOR as my browser if it wasnt so slow =/. And in regards to wiretapping, I mean the US government has been wiretapping since the 1920's when they where trying to find bootleggers and moonshiners . So this has been a very longstanding issue that has slowly progressed through time. So yes this is definitely not a new issue by any stretch of the imagination but the argument I was trying to make is that the average american who doesnt follow this stuff as much as we do that this comes off as a "shock". Most americans are still extremely naive and ignorant about to what extent the government tracks their online and electronic info and its good that they are getting informed about it atleast!

[Tinkerbell]

I agree with you, Koalafan, that most people are not aware of what is already out there about themselves, and they should be. I'm all for people being informed as long as it is factual, and not fear mongering. And I agree that the government is just as guilty in promoting fear mongering, it is what they use to justify their actions. And if we can do nothing more than keep the the information out there, then that is what the general populace can do. As far as Snowden is concerned - one man's traitor is another man's patriot, just depends which side you fall on.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin - 1775

[Skippy]

They should keep their damn noses out of peoples business. But then it's a very human thing that if anyone in power thinks they can get away with anything at all, they'd do it. I hope one day we don't really have gov's anymore and power and wealth become a thing of the past, where all people are equal and have a say in their communities......I do think such will happen one day when they step too far over their bounds to be ignored. The human race is still very young like a child, so there's still lots of room for development yet.
I just dunno why people are like sheep and need control....someone above them....Equality is what we need.

To me, No one, not even God (I don't believe in such, but for example) has any say or control over me. I run my life, I don't need strength from any higher power, it all comes from me. I don't need an afterlife or to live forever ether.

But not to rant or stray from topic, yeah, I think their spying is disgusting and it seems the more time goes on, the more liberties they take
with people's rights and privacy.....how sad....

[Sagan]

When it comes to business emails, etc., most companies store and monitor emails, etc. constantly. Some monitor keystrokes, as well, although that is less common. Anything you do on a company's network can be monitored by the IT folks at any time. It is, after all the company's hardware and network, and there are even data storage requirements demanded by law in many cases. The same is true for government work environments. It's all stored and accessible and for long periods of time, even in perpetuity in some cases.

If you are on a network, network admins have and can use the capability to monitor transactions on that network anytime, including personal use of that network. Anyone working on a network computer system should assume that everything they do on that network can and may be stored and examined by the company or organization.

Outside of those environment, everyone should keep in mind that anything transmitted beyond your own personal computer might be intercepted, stored, or examined. Illegal or not, right or not, what you send out is beyond your control as soon as you send it. If you think of it that way, you'll always create and send information in a way that is safe.

The same is true of even emails, etc. you send to friends and acquaintances. Any of those can forward your email to anyone they wish, store it on their own computers, print it out, and share it in any way. You lost control of it the moment you clicked "Send." If you email someone at their workplace, all of the caveats mentioned above in the section on corporations and organizations apply.

If you use Google, Facebook, and other services, including online forums and other websites, anything you search for or post, including what is described as private messaging, is no longer secure or private. It is stored, recorded, and can be examined by others. It can be sold, broadcast, or used in other ways, all based on the privacy and terms of service policies of the individual websites. If you haven't read the privacy statements or terms of service agreements you accepted, you might be shocked at what is in those agreements and statements. You should consider everything you do anywhere on the Internet to be public information, because it is, to be quite frank. Those private messages, along with everything you do on any Internet site are available to site administrators, if they wish to access them. Everything you do on any site is recorded as data, and may be used pretty much anyway the site administrators want to use it. It's their system, and you probably agreed to their sweeping, broad terms of service, without even looking at them.

Beyond that, anonymity on the Internet is almost impossible to maintain without great effort. It can be done, but few people take those steps. You can encrypt emails and documents securely, but it's a lot of work and a pain in the [BEEP] for the recipients, frankly. Unless you are willing to go to the lengths required, you should understand that anything can be traced back to you and your individual device, if there is the desire, need, and capability to do so by people who want to do that. More people than you know have that desire, need, and capability.

[WineKitty]

Oh! As I mentioned to Winekitty I am very aware of, and have long debated, privacy concerns...especially when it comes to google . Right now I actually use duckduckgo for most of my searches and have recently tanked my gmail account and yes I have googled myself plenty of times . Hell I would use TOR as my browser if it wasnt so slow =/. And in regards to wiretapping, I mean the US government has been wiretapping since the 1920's when they where trying to find bootleggers and moonshiners . So this has been a very longstanding issue that has slowly progressed through time. So yes this is definitely not a new issue by any stretch of the imagination but the argument I was trying to make is that the average american who doesnt follow this stuff as much as we do that this comes off as a "shock". Most americans are still extremely naive and ignorant about to what extent the government tracks their online and electronic info and its good that they are getting informed about it atleast!

It is good that people are talking about it but trying to assign blame to the current administration is political theater. It is crazy that this is going at and has been going on for so long isn't it? And the fact that most Americans are so complacent about it....gah...it is maddening!!! And the laws DO need to be updated to the current times!!

[Tinkerbell]

Winekitty, if you mean that people outside of this board are trying to blame current administration, I agree that it is just political posturing and I believe that it would happen to whomever was in office. I think that those of us who have posted on this subject are using the word government generically, at least that is the impression I get. This issue has grown over many years through many administrations Republican and Democratic.

[WintersTale]

You are entitled to life and liberty, except when the government doesn't want you to have it. Nice!

[Otherside]

I suppose I can get why google/microsoft etc did that.

Let's put it this way. Let's say Ms.Ventura or Mr.Joker were handed a court warrant, on the very very unlikely occurance that the USA-FBI bigwot spy people needed information on...something. I'm guessing I'm on US server here because I'm not getting the six million pop-ups warning me about this and that I get on EU servers, especially the one that says that the website uses cookies and do I wish to continue (YES, for the nine hundreth time!!!), so I'm guessing if the police demanded info for whatever, they wouldn't have that much of a choice but to give. I get that. Pretty much every government in the world can do that.

I guess half the problem over here is that a lot of Europeans are used to data protection. EU law makes it so that we can demand companies to remove all information on us at any time without consequence, and start up a lawsuit if they refuse to. I think the main problem over here is do the US have access to stuff that comes into US servers that's from Europe? Or access to stuff from other companies that's on servers in Europe. To the second one, no, definatley not. Seems as though the US only had access to stuff that was on US servers, or that companies in the US had access to. Does it surprise Facebook was involved? Nope. Facebook has already manage to pis off Europe several times due to privacy breaches. And the server is in Ireland.

Well, europes epically pissed off at the momment. Especially Germany. Can you blame them? It wasn't so long ago that the Stasi were the ones spying on them, and a lot of people remember that, or were victims of Stasi spying. Not so great for Obama that it happened so close to the G8.

Edit-Yup, I'm on a US server. There's now a flag telling me that.

Seriously, I don't think anyomes gonna understand that post at all.

[Koalafan]

I suppose I can get why google/microsoft etc did that.

Let's put it this way. Let's say Ms.Ventura or Mr.Joker were handed a court warrant, on the very very unlikely occurance that the USA-FBI bigwot spy people needed information on...something. I'm guessing I'm on US server here because I'm not getting the six million pop-ups warning me about this and that I get on EU servers, especially the one that says that the website uses cookies and do I wish to continue (YES, for the nine hundreth time!!!), so I'm guessing if the police demanded info for whatever, they wouldn't have that much of a choice but to give. I get that. Pretty much every government in the world can do that.

I guess half the problem over here is that a lot of Europeans are used to data protection. EU law makes it so that we can demand companies to remove all information on us at any time without consequence, and start up a lawsuit if they refuse to. I think the main problem over here is do the US have access to stuff that comes into US servers that's from Europe? Or access to stuff from other companies that's on servers in Europe. To the second one, no, definatley not. Seems as though the US only had access to stuff that was on US servers, or that companies in the US had access to. Does it surprise Facebook was involved? Nope. Facebook has already manage to pis off Europe several times due to privacy breaches. And the server is in Ireland.

Well, europes epically pissed off at the momment. Especially Germany. Can you blame them? It wasn't so long ago that the Stasi were the ones spying on them, and a lot of people remember that, or were victims of Stasi spying. Not so great for Obama that it happened so close to the G8.

Edit-Yup, I'm on a US server. There's now a flag telling me that.

Seriously, I don't think anyomes gonna understand that post at all.

Hey otherside this article is for you since you live in the UK! Warning, it aint pretty lol

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/ju...unications-nsa

[WineKitty]

Winekitty, if you mean that people outside of this board are trying to blame current administration, I agree that it is just political posturing and I believe that it would happen to whomever was in office. I think that those of us who have posted on this subject are using the word government generically, at least that is the impression I get. This issue has grown over many years through many administrations Republican and Democratic.

Yeah I was referring more to the media's handling of this rather than the people on this board, more of a generalized thing.

[WintersTale]

I am all for catching terrorism and illegal activities.

But there is a huge gap in what constitutes illegal activities. America already has a war on the mentally ill. Do we have to worry about google or some other company collecting our personal information, selling it to the government, who will put us in a database for the mentally ill? To be honest, that frightens the hell out of me, because I am more than my mental illness. I am a person, who happens to suffer from anxiety, depression, and low self esteem. That doesn't make me a terrible person, and I shouldn't be categorized in some random database, like I'm a robot or some non-human creature.

I don't entirely trust our government. I trust Obama, who I think has his heart in the right place, but I don't trust our Congress. I don't trust the people that surround the president, who usually have more power than he does, and I certainly don't trust google, despite being a fan of the company. My privacy should be respected. I deserve the same basic rights as everyone else, and having my rights infringed on, just because of a few nutters, is unconstitutional.

[Otherside]

^I'm all for catching terrorism but I'm not for a country which I owe nothing to and doesn't really affect me that much on a day to day basis deciding it's going to snoop into my affairs. I wouldn't mind so much if it was my own country. What bugs me is that it isn't, and I don't know what the Americans think we foreigners think about America, but the majority of us don't really care that much about America the majority of the time, and just want to get on with our lives without any interference from them. And as a european citizen, I have a right to privacy and data cannot be collected on me without my consent, which I did not give.

[compulsive]

I don't trust US politicians. But I trust that they are not stupid and are out for themselves. They can't do [BEEP] without the media having a field day. Oh and a company like google? They use your info to learn how to better advertise and get you to buy stuff. They are trying to make money, not lawsuits. The US politicians can't touch Google, nor would it.

FB on the other hand...:/

[Otherside]

I don't trust US politicians. But I trust that they are not stupid and are out for themselves. They can't do [BEEP] without the media having a field day. Oh and a company like google? They use your info to learn how to better advertise and get you to buy stuff. They are trying to make money, not lawsuits. The US politicians can't touch Google, nor would it.

They can. They don't want a lawsuit, and if the US hands over a legal document to google demanding information in the name of justice, they don't have a choice but to give them to information. That's the case in most countries, with most companies. If a legal document was given to anxiety space demanding whatever information they have on Otherside, anxiety space would have to give it to them. That's the law. The US can't order a company outside the US to hand over information in that way. The problem is though, that the majority of information the US companies has stored on me was stored in servers in europe, and since the majority of companies choose which country to base there server on based on how low the tax rate is, really, they should be obeying EU law, which says this is illegal.

And the EU can and will force companies like Facebook to adhere to it. You may notice on the US facebook there's something on a photo which can recognise a persons face. We don't have that in Europe, because there was a lawsuit that it went against privacy protection laws. Facebook was forced to disable it throughout Europe. If we hit delete on our Facebook account, Facebook has no choice but to wipe every single piece of data it has on me in a way that means it can't be recovered (I don't know if that's the case in the US or elsewhere)

Edit-My bad, google.co.uk is on a US server. Which means I guess they can store whatever information they want about me and hand it to the feds.

[compulsive]

They can. They don't want a lawsuit, and if the US hands over a legal document to google demanding information in the name of justice, they don't have a choice but to give them to information. That's the case in most countries, with most companies. If a legal document was given to anxiety space demanding whatever information they have on Otherside, anxiety space would have to give it to them. That's the law. The US can't order a company outside the US to hand over information in that way. The problem is though, that the majority of information the US companies has stored on me was stored in servers in europe, and since the majority of companies choose which country to base there server on based on how low the tax rate is, really, they should be obeying EU law, which says this is illegal.

And the EU can and will force companies like Facebook to adhere to it. You may notice on the US facebook there's something on a photo which can recognise a persons face. We don't have that in Europe, because there was a lawsuit that it went against privacy protection laws. Facebook was forced to disable it throughout Europe. If we hit delete on our Facebook account, Facebook has no choice but to wipe every single piece of data it has on me in a way that means it can't be recovered (I don't know if that's the case in the US or elsewhere)

Edit-My bad, google.co.uk is on a US server. Which means I guess they can store whatever information they want about me and hand it to the feds.

Still what can they do unless you broke the law? Do you think they would get away with inappropriate use of the data collected?