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  1. #1
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    Do we need to jump the Fiscal cliff?

    Speaking as a liberal, I have noticed a lot of my fellow liberals sharing this same view. Rather than increasing the threshold of the debt, liberals have been speaking out about just letting it go over, and then putting pressure on Congress to "fix it."

    I think the president gets too much flak for not doing enough. He is doing plenty; the problem is with the greedy Congressmen and Congresswomen who don't support our president, and in many cases, tie his hands behind his back. It's pin the tail on the donkey, and many times it's Obama that Congress pin the tail on, rather than themselves.

    Does anybody else agree? Should we have the fiscal cliff just be jumped, so that the pressure is put on Republican Congress?

  2. #2
    Ironman's Avatar
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    I don't know - if both sides are trying to do the right thing, then they are trying.

    Personally, the idea of "taxing the rich" isn't going to be enough - and I am not sure anyone has figured that out.

    Romney actually explained it better and got lambasted. Romney focused on jobs - the more people who have work, the more they get, and the more people in the tax base (23,000,000+ people!) = that's revenue - something we don't have because there is NO focus on creating new jobs. I have not heard a word about the job factor on this - it's specifically that we spend too much and are not taking enough in to cover it. Having all the unemployed people is worse because that is even LESS money not being taken in.

    We are finally paying for the stimuli that have been sent out in the last several years - something Bush started, but Obama made far worse (a lot of that money vaporized). As a taxpayer, it nearly gives me a panic attack to think about the 1040 form I have to fill out - and this will only be the second year I have had to not use the EZ form......I have the long form now.
    Since last year was my first, I had it professionally done - $220. I at least have a template to do it myself now.

    If you are trying to increase the tax on the very people who are trying to get to the point to hire people (and Obamacare is another blockage to this), they aren't going to hire and that segment of the taxable income also diminishes. Why doesn't anyone see this?

  3. #3
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    By all means, I feel that it's not a solution completely. But there has to be a proposed plan.

    What makes me feel better is that Romney is working with Obama. Romney may not be a likeable guy, but he does have some solutions, so I'm glad he's working with the president.

    As far as people out of jobs, oh I know. I was disappointed that they closed Borders, which was my favorite store. I used to go there every morning with my laptop, and have a danish and a cup of coffee. It kills me that these places are closing, and that the economy is so horrible at the moment; I know that, if I were out of college and looking for a job, I would be struggling to find work. And I do know that, if I even tried to find a retail position to partially pay for college, I wouldn't get anywhere, because everyone is looking for work in those fields.

    What irritates me is that tax should be increased on the rich, because they can afford it. Like Stephen King and Bill Gates said, "Go ahead, tax me. I can afford it." If the top 1% can't somewhat fix the economy's issue by throwing part of their paycheck at it, we are in even deeper crisis than I thought was possible before.

  4. #4
    WineKitty's Avatar
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    Just how was Romney going to create those jobs? He never really elaborated on that. Lowering the upper tax rate (aka trickle down economics) has been proven over and over again not to work.

    Filling out a long tax form is Obama's fault? :lol Sorry, as a homeowner I have been doing that for years. It's not the end of the world. I would shop around for a different tax preparer if I were you, 220 is a lot, or use TurboTax. I personally pay around 100 and have very convoluted taxes.

    The big problem for years has been the do-nothing congress and that does include the bunch pre-2010.

    Raising the upper level taxes to Clinton Era levels is something they can afford. Historically speaking, Clinton era tax levels are far lower than in previous times. Google a chart on those tax rates from 1900 on.

  5. #5
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    Romney didn't allude to how he would, but I'm sure he would be able to figure out something. Probably not as president, though, which is why it was good that he lost.

    I just don't know. I see so much hate thrown at Obama, and I feel it is meaningless, because it wasn't his fault that we got into this mess. It was 8 years of Dubya screwing us up. And it will probably take 8 years of Obama trying to fix his mess, before we see any improvement.

  6. #6
    WineKitty's Avatar
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    There HAS been improvement.

    In 2008 the market crashed with its lowest point in October. I personally watched my savings evaporate by half. Today, I have recovered ALL of that via mutual funds.

    The housing market was in complete freefall back then as well. This has also stabilized. Note I said stabilized....some of the pre-bubble gains were never realistic ones and might never be achieved again.

    Unemployment is now down to 7.7%.

    It took years to drive us into the ditch and it will take years to bring us back.

  7. #7
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    That is very true, WineKitty. There has been improvement.

    I am just talking about getting back to where we were, pre-Bush years. It's going to take more than 4 years to do that.

  8. #8
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    I am not sure that is even possible. Clinton did a lot of good but let's not forget he is the one who signed NAFTA. He also loosened up regulation that led to the housing bubble. That said, he is still the best President in modern history. Although Obama is still only halfway through his eight year term so we cannot decide his legacy yet. It's only become clearer what GW Bush's legacy will be in the last few years as the full effects of his policies have come through.

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