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Thread: US Politics

  1. #376
    Lunaire's Avatar Consumer of Coffee
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    Quote sunrise View Post
    Hasn't the notion of free market economy been debunked? I don't think I ever took econ class, but I thought we developed antitrust laws in the U.S. because monopolies formed when there was very little regulation. Alan Greenspan, who was a strong believer in Ayn Rand's lassez faire philosophy, was devastated when the economy tanked and admitted he was wrong. Doesn't history prove time and again that when you peel back regulation, things go south?

    "...standard economic theory is typically overenthusiastic about unregulated free markets. It usually ignores the fact that, given normal human weaknesses, an unregulated competitive economy will inevitably spawn an immense amount of manipulation and deception." -ROBERT J. SHILLER Professor of Economics at Yale

    The crash of 2008 was largely fueled by shady Wall Street transactions. It could've been prevented had there been someone paying attention. Wouldn't pulling back the regulations just set us up for another economic crisis?
    In case this was in reference to what I have posted -- I completely agree that regulations can be a good thing.

    I also agree that the United State's antitrust laws do an effective job of preventing industry monopolies.

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    Quote Lunaire View Post
    I also agree that the United State's antitrust laws do an effective job of preventing industry monopolies.
    Not really if you have banks "too big to fail".

  3. #378
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    Quote Jerry View Post
    Not really if you have banks "too big to fail".
    The banking industry is not a monopoly.

    A monopoly is when a single company holds exclusive control over an entire industry.

    There are 5,903 FDIC registered financial institutions in the United States.

  4. #379
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    Quote Lunaire View Post
    The banking industry is not a monopoly.

    A monopoly is when a single company holds exclusive control over an entire industry.

    There are 5,903 FDIC registered financial institutions in the United States.
    I know what a monopoly is, you can have issues in a market without monopolies. I was talking about the United State's antitrust laws, it can't be effective if it allows companies to become "too big to fail".

  5. #380
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    Quote Jerry View Post
    I know what a monopoly is, you can have issues in a market without monopolies. I was talking about the United State's antitrust laws, it can't be effective if it allows companies to become "too big to fail".
    There are people saying the regulatory response to the latest crash was insufficient. I didn't realize that "too big to fail" was a real designation and that there's actually a threshold for it. Institutions perceived as being too big to fail have advantages over smaller banks because of government protection. So there are economists who want the large banks broken up. Also, because of they have a lot of political power, no one gets prosecuted if there's criminal activity.

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    Quote sunrise View Post
    There are people saying the regulatory response to the latest crash was insufficient. I didn't realize that "too big to fail" was a real designation and that there's actually a threshold for it. Institutions perceived as being too big to fail have advantages over smaller banks because of government protection. So there are economists who want the large banks broken up. Also, because of they have a lot of political power, no one gets prosecuted if there's criminal activity.
    Exactly, couldn't put it better myself.

  7. #382
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    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...igence-contact

    So, all but confirmed, Trump is a Russian puppet. Trump confirms leaks are real.

  8. #383
    Total Eclipse's Avatar Happy Sparkles and Coffee
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    Quote Jerry View Post
    I know what a monopoly is, you can have issues in a market without monopolies. I was talking about the United State's antitrust laws, it can't be effective if it allows companies to become "too big to fail".
    I don't think @Lunaire was saying the banks were fault free, but was noting that they weren't monopolies as the prior discussion hinted.

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    Quote Total Eclipse View Post
    I don't think @Lunaire was saying the banks were fault free, but was noting that they weren't monopolies as the prior discussion hinted.
    Is your argument really that I'm wrong because I didn't used the correct terms in a given situation? The banks are an oligopoly, which is another form of a monopoly and just as bad, something the antitrust laws should be preventing and failing. I have already gave examples of monopolies in the USA.

    This new form of corporatism is going against proper free markets, capitalism and economic principles. This cutting wages and not paying taxes even when the company is making billions in profits is insane. The rush to merge and create monopolies goes against the whole idea behind competition, just look at Comcast, Time Warner, Charter and Verizon, these are not businesses competing against each other, these corporations are always in talks to try to find a way to merge into one company.

    The reason this is happening is because the CEOs are all buddies and they are working together to try to get themselves the bigger pay package they can. This is not how real business works. And you can't tell me these know-nothing richie-rich CEOs can start and run a successful business, they couldn't do it even if their lives was depended on it. You and @Lunaire can't sit there and say this is all normal free market. Try telling that to small business owners who have to fight a losing battle with "too big to fail" corporations.

  10. #385
    Total Eclipse's Avatar Happy Sparkles and Coffee
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    Quote Jerry View Post
    You and @Lunaire can't sit there and say this is all normal free market. Try telling that to small business owners who have to fight a losing battle with "too big to fail" corporations.
    Where did I say this? I said internet is a luxury, that's all --- and correcting what I thought @L unaire meant and it taking off to a different meaning that what meant/ said. I still stand by my statement, and think the comparisons where out-reached. But the words above aren't something I said.

  11. #386
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    Quote Jerry View Post
    The banks are an oligopoly, which is another form of a monopoly and just as bad, something the antitrust laws should be preventing and failing. I have already gave examples of monopolies in the USA.
    I have not yet seen you give any examples of legitimate monopolies in the USA.

    How is the banking industry an oligopoly when there are nearly 6,000 FDIC registered financial institutions?

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    Quote Jerry View Post
    Is your argument really that I'm wrong because I didn't used the correct terms in a given situation? The banks are an oligopoly, which is another form of a monopoly and just as bad, something the antitrust laws should be preventing and failing. I have already gave examples of monopolies in the USA.
    Quote Lunaire View Post
    I have not yet seen you give any examples of legitimate monopolies in the USA.

    How is the banking industry an oligopoly when there are nearly 6,000 FDIC registered financial institutions?
    That's what has confused me. The word monopolies, and oligopoly. A bank is neither by definition. I haven't really seen any examples of real monopolies in the United States in this thread. Not to say I agree with the system. But, saying those words to describe the situation changes the whole meaning of the point and debate.

  13. #388
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    Chaffetz, Goodlatte ask government watchdog to investigate leaks


    Two top House Republicans asked the Inspector General on Wednesday to investigate leaks surrounding the ouster of former national security adviser Michael Flynn.The request came in a letter from Rep. Jason Chaffetz, the chairman of the House Oversight Committee, and Rep. Bob Goodlatte, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee.
    "We request that your office begin an immediate investigation into whether classified information was mishandled here," the letter to the Inspector General read.
    Trump's administration has been beset by damaging leaks over its first month, including reports of Flynn's contact with the Russian ambassador to the US in December that ultimately led to his downfall.
    Trump himself has decried such leaks as the "real scandal." Chaffetz, a Utah Republican, has so far declined to investigate President Donald Trump's potential conflicts of interest or potential ties to Russia between himself or his aides.
    Sidestepping of epic proportions. Let's ignore the countless red flags concerning the administration's Russian connections. Not to mention the irony of it all

  14. #389
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    Quote Lunaire View Post
    I have not yet seen you give any examples of legitimate monopolies in the USA.
    Quote Total Eclipse View Post
    That's what has confused me. The word monopolies, and oligopoly. A bank is neither by definition. I haven't really seen any examples of real monopolies in the United States. Not to say I agree with the system. But, saying those words to describe the situation changes the whole meaning of the point.
    Monopoly, is a market containing a single firm that has or is close to total control of the sector.

    Google? Microsoft? Facebook? Luxottica? Monsanto? YKK? AB InBev? Simmons?

    Oligopoly, a state of limited competition, in which a market is shared by a small number of producers or sellers.

    Movie studios, television and internet providers, wireless providers, healthcare insurance, book publishers, airlines, and freight railroads.

    Quote Lunaire View Post
    How is the banking industry an oligopoly when there are nearly 6,000 FDIC registered financial institutions?
    You do realise that not all FDIC registered financial institutions are consumer-facing banks, right? Just five banks owns more than 55% of the market and growing each year, these five are not competing against each other, therefore it is an oligopoly.

  15. #390
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    Quote Jerry View Post
    Monopoly, is a market containing a single firm that has or is close to total control of the sector.

    Google? Microsoft? Facebook? Luxottica? Monsanto? YKK? AB InBev? Simmons?

    Oligopoly, a state of limited competition, in which a market is shared by a small number of producers or sellers.

    Movie studios, television and internet providers, wireless providers, healthcare insurance, book publishers, airlines, and freight railroads.



    You do realise that not all FDIC registered financial institutions are consumer-facing banks, right? Just five banks owns more than 55% of the market and growing each year, these five are not competing against each other, therefore it is an oligopoly.
    You are correct -- a monopoly is when a single entity maintains total industry control. Of the companies you listed, none of them match this definition.

    Google > There are are numerous search engines. Here is a list of the top 10. Not a monopoly.
    Microsoft > There are numerous operating systems. OS X, iOS, Ubuntu, Redhat, Debian, GNU, ArchLinux, Linux Mint, Puppy Linux, openSUSE, Fedora, Mageia, CentOS etc. Not a monopoly.
    Facebook > There are numerous social media sites. MySpace, Twitter, Reddit, Tumblr, Flickr, Instagram, Google+, Pinterest, etc. Not a monopoly.
    Monsanto > There are numerous genomics companies. Archer Daniels Midland Company, Dow Chemical Company, Evogene, are a few major ones. Not a monopoly.
    YKK > This is a Japanese company and not an American one. Nonetheless it has competition in the form of Arconic, Rio Tinto Alcan, and Talon International. Not a monopoly.
    AB InBev > This is a Belgium company. Nonetheless it has competition in the form of Carlsberg Breweries, Heineken, Sabmiller Limited, and many others. Not a monopoly.
    Simmons > This is a UK law firm. They do not control the entire industry either, and have major competitors in the form of Clifford Chance LLP, Freshfields Bruckhause Deringer, and Norton Rose. Not a monopoly.

    Additionally, controlling 55% of a market share does not indicate a monopoly when there are 5,903 competing firms in the financial industry. Just because not all financial institutions in the United States are not consumer-facing does not mean that they aren't competition.

    There is no resource scarcity to prevent a consumer from switching to a bank with less market share if they choose to do so. This is not an oligopoly.

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