Random Thought of the Day

[Nyctophilia]

This is quite insane no? (The report is actually from 2022.) Almost 50% of guys in their 20s.

An impressive 40% of Japanese men in their 20s reported having never gone on a date, according to a new government survey. In a 350-page white paper on gender equality published this month by Japan's Cabinet Office, authorities surveyed 20,000 people from various age groups on questions related to marriage and income. Women in their 20s reported a high but significantly lower number, with 25% reporting they had never been on at least one date.

The rate of singlehood amongst the Japanese men surveyed did not appear to drop drastically with age. Around 35% of the men in their 30s polled by authorities said they had never been on a date. And in their 40s, 22% of the men surveyed still said they had never dated.

Women, meanwhile, polled very differently on the same questions. Around 25% of the women in their 20s surveyed said they had never dated. The figure dropped to just over 22% for women in their 30s. And by their 40s, just 12% of the women polled said they had never once dated.

I think this trend is happening in many places (potentially everywhere,) at a gradual rate. I know it's partly the internet but I think the trend started before then so it's interesting.

Well fertility decline has been reported everywhere but that's not the same as people not forming romantic relationships. In many places there are couples who just get cats as well. But the relationship thing also seems to be happening.

Someone pointed out in Japan that it seemed to be linked to socioeconomic concerns. This is just talking about marriage so yeah not very useful as people don't necessarily get married:

"The herbivore phenomenon may be partly socioeconomic adversity. If government policies directly addressed the situation of low-income, low-education populations, I think some people with a lack of job security or financial resources may have new interest in dating," said Dr. Haruka Sakamoto, an expert in public health and co-author of the research publication.

In Europe and the U.S., marriage is often associated with higher incomes and education among both women and men, but it is not known how these factors influence single people's interest in romantic relationships.

I know neither me or my friend has had a relationship since we broke up at uni. He has gone on some dates though after we broke up years ago. Maybe there's something about that environment in the UK that might encourage people to date and form relationships because another thing I noticed is this:

Separate surveys conducted between 2010 and 2018 in Britain, the U.S. and Japan reveal that although similar proportions of women are single at ages 18 to 24, substantially more Japanese women stay single as they age. The proportion of women aged 18 to 24 and the proportion of women aged 35 to 39 who are currently single were 65.6% and 24.4% in Japan, 41.5% and 14.0% in Britain, and 62.6% and 16.6% in the U.S.

See how that percentage of younger women who are single is significantly lower in the UK than Japan and the US for some reason? Not sure if that applies to guys too though or not. I was in multiple relationships during the early 2010s.

But then again:

Most people in the UK do not go to university ? and maybe never will

In short, it's not actually very easy to work out what proportion of the UK population has degrees (nor how many more or less graduates the economy needs). Depending on which dataset you study, it's 27.2% or 34.4% or 40.2% of the population. It certainly isn't 49%. Most people don't go to university and current data suggests that most people in the UK never will.

I feel like this should be very easy to figure out? But either way probably not having a huge impact then lol.

Using Nomis, we can see that in 2012, 34.4% of the working age population of Great Britain, aged 16 to 64, achieved NVQ4+ (a degree-level or equivalent qualification or above). You can check my working if you like - here is the report I ran. Related data reveals that 40.2% of those in work have a degree or equivalent - unsurprisingly, degree holders are more likely to be in work than those without.

Being mentally ill helps you to break all kinds of stereotypes lol. Unless you count underemployed self employed YouTube work but it doesn't count for tax purposes.

By 2015, there were 2.2 million more single women and 1.7 million more single men in Japan aged 18 to 39 compared to 1992. In 1992, 27.4% of women and 40.4% of men in Japan aged 18 to 39 were single. By 2015, 40.7% of women and 50.8% of men of the same age range were single.

The research team speculates that the higher numbers of single men might be due to women, on average, dating men who are older than themselves, such that many of their male partners were older than 39 years and thus outside of the investigated age range. Other contributing factors could be that Japan's total population of 18- to 39-year-olds includes more men, men being more likely to date more than one partner, or differences in how men and women report their own relationship status.

Hmm....

So like perhaps this is what's happening - just a suggestion. Maybe about 4 generations ago let's say guys started to date younger women while previously older guys stayed married and then gradually every generation is smaller and no one stays married later in life so there are always more older single guys. The older guys date most of the younger women so the young guys just don't date and older women don't date younger guys due to a general mutual lack of attraction. But if older women are into young guys they're shamed anyway.

Here in the UK this isn't what I saw in real life back when I paid attention though. No one was dating or marrying anyone more than 4 years older than them... In fact in one marriage that happened while I was at uni the woman was older. But it must be happening somewhere.

Oh well *goes back to Tumblr twinks* lol.

Within ten years, the number of adults aged 40 and above who have never been in a relationship will rise to 10%.

Back in the days of our parents, this used to be 1% or maybe 2% tops.

I doubt it was ever that low honestly.

Lol this thread took a weird turn:

The quote this reminds me of badly stated " if a child is not embraced by its village, it will burn it to feel the warmth of the fire." So goes society, if society isn't meeting the needs of the people the youth of that society will burn it. Just look at Iran and China, they are murdering the youth in record numbers because the status quo excludes them.

They?re what

You mean like 'that kind of thing':



Or literally just murdering people now? Probably 'that kind of thing.'

People need to just settle more, like in the good old days

Nah I can't because of my parents. Their relationship was fucked. I'm also not trying anyway though. Just watching a slow motion car crash. Lol:



So was an entire generation+

An alleged car crash anyway.

Stuff like "60% of 30-34 year olds in the UK are single" can't be true and must be misleading crap based on single meaning 'not married.' Well yeah most people aren't getting married now but I'm sure most people are still in relationships and/or dating.

I feel like most of the data people have/talk about is useless. But I'm still curious.

unironically, yes. The paradox of choice and accessibility of "profiles" that your brain has a hard time distinguishing from real people is a big problem.

Think of it less as settling, and more as loving the whole complex and imperfect human. Working together to build something and grow as people.

I think you're over-estimating how much on-line dating dictates this.

As it's really only men on dating apps.

So it's having a necessarily limited impact on the population as a whole because the normal ratio is 80% men to 20% women (and a lot of those "women" are bots, workers, OF promoters or Insta models). So half the population are very under-represented on the apps and therefore not affected by them.

I don't know if that's true on every site but it is on tinder I think? Something like that anyway.

75% of Tinder users are male. 24% of Tinder users are female.

I dont think you can make this conditional statement and assume it true, actually. Meeting online is the largest driver for new relationships today. Dismissing that impact out of hand is pretty unreasonable.

I feel like most people met/meet on forums in the past, or social media and discord now. Dating sites work sometimes but less.

Let's see actually:

First, let's be clear: only about 10% of people in committed relationships or marriages met their partner on a dating site or app, according to the Pew Research Center in 2023.

It's not working.

28 year old male here. I'm curious cause I'm 100% I'll be one of those people. Hopefully by then I'll be a proud first time dog owner of a Boston Terrier. [...]

I'm at a point now where it's all about demands and expectations and it all seems like a interview process. I just don't see how that's enjoyable and happy to be around. I feel relationships at my age are way too serious. The free spirited and fun relationships I would have found at 16, 19, and 21 are just not there anymore.

Frankly, I no longer see the appeal. I've come to accept my fate. It's just the hand I've been dealt with. Some of it was my fault. Some of it was societal.

I don't mean any offense truly, but it's really strange to me to see many 28 year olds talking like they're over the hill and it's a wash. It's anecdotal but this mindset seems more and more common to me, and also really distorted considering how much potential and unknown there may still be. Like if you're happy no need to chase it, but suggesting your best years are over at 28 is a strong statement. You may have totally valid reasons for feeling thay way, too.

It's just a common thread i've noticed, 70 year olds trying to act 50 and 20-somethings feeling like they're 50. You've got a great way of communicating in text!

Maybe. It's interesting(?) That guys are doing it now. Straight guys I guess since gay guys have always done that. I guess Logan's Run was a documentary. I think women always felt that way though.



I mean consider the book Pride and Prejudice. Elizabeth is considered old and she's what? 28? Fuck. 20 years old that's bleak. Well I don't know if she's really considered old I kind of got that vibe and her older sister who was 22 I guess but maybe it was just that her mum was obsessed with them getting into relationships. She was pressuring her to get married to someone she had no interest in at 20 though:

Mrs. Bennett isn't a "villain." She is not intellectually equal to her husband or her daughter. She doesn?t understand (or care) that Elizabeth and Mr. Collins are a terrible mismatch intellectually and emotionally.

It was particularly stupid since Mary was obviously a better match for him in the first place lol and seemed to kind of like him even.

Thinking about it I'm probably just getting her mixed up with Charlotte her friend:



I also see people in their early 20s talking that way online now, sometimes even teenagers are like 'I'm 19 and my life is over because my teen years sucked.' Which is ironic to me because most of my interesting experiences happened at uni anyway.

But actually I think dying alone is probably better than being Charlotte.

Oh this one thread got really amusing lol:

why do you care about collective? you should care about yourself

If you want to live in a society where everyone only cares about themselves, you should move.

? to the United States?

Exactly.

Most of the people in that thread are already living in the US lol.



edit: he calls these guys conservative repeatedly in this video and I wouldn't say they are and actual conservatives don't like them:



They're just misogynistic psychopaths.



Actually sex is for orgasms ideally, and reproduction is via ivf and surrogacy or at least someone else's womb because I'm not getting pregnant.

I am pretty gay too.

Andrew Tate: 'I won't have sex with a girl if there's no chance of having a kid what's the point'

"It's gay not to get women pregnant."

I really hope women are sensible and Andrew never has sex again. Also since this is going to encourage the worst men imagineable to reproduce (the kind who care too much about looking gay,) I hope (some) women get more sensible in general.

Also Fresh and Fit talking to Destiny about about how men shouldn't live with women because it 'softens you up.' and it's bad for you. They'll see them once a month or something (did they say that? I'm going to have to go back and check.) Are you being paid by lesbians to push women to date women? (It's getting real weird and even feels coordinated at this point lol.) I feel like they've created a gender for themselves and I need a way to sort of signal that I have no attraction to it lol because it's that bad. I need vocabulary because they're that unattractive.

I think about this reddit post I saw about 'log cabin republicans' all the time when I come across these guys. I'm censoring it because they got really offensive with it and it's a bit conspiratorial but I kind of get where it's coming from:

Gay men who adore women and want to be like them are fine. Gay nazis who hate women are pure scum. Get your [redacted] asses out of here. Nobody cares about your dumb racial theories. Stop trying to convince young straight guys that girls are wicked and grooming them with your creepy Graeco-Roman pederasty.

I don't think these guys are gay really (I'd need stronger evidence,) but some of what they push/argue for is similar and they do have sexual neurosis either way (who doesn't these days though lol.) But there are gay guys like this because they often feel a lot of shame about their childhood femininty etc and lose the plot later or they were always masculine and just have complete contempt for feminine men because of their fixation on masculinity. Lots of 'down low' black guys around too. I don't know if they realise - if they care that much - that they make themselves seem more gay to me. Because I don't associate femininity automatically with being gay. But I have noticed certain patterns with Jack Donovan type guys:

Jack Donovan (born 1974) is an American far-right writer and activist. A self-described masculinist, Donovan was an influential figure in the alt-right until he disavowed the movement in 2017. He has at various times advocated male supremacy,[1][2] white nationalism,[3][4] fascism,[1][5] and the political disenfranchisement of women.[4] He led a chapter of the Wolves of Vinland, a Norse neopagan organization and SPLC-designated hate group, from 2014 to 2018.[1]

Donovan was born in 1974 and grew up in a blue-collar household in rural Pennsylvania.[6]: 243  He moved to New York in the 1990s to study fine art. During this period, he says that he attended and worked as a dancer at gay clubs, marched in gay pride parades, and associated with drag queens.[5][7] He later dropped out of college and became a manual laborer.[5] Donovan has also lived in California and Portland, Oregon. He has worked as a club dancer, truck driver, and tattoo artist.[6]: 243 

Donovan is a former Satanist,[8]: 173  and became an ordained priest of the Church of Satan in 2007.[7] He left the church in 2009.[6]: 243 

Donovan has been described as gay,[4] though he does not use the label for himself and has criticized gay culture as effeminate.[8]: 173  He has described himself as an "androphile", a term he uses to describe romance and sex between masculine men.[8]: 113  In his 2006 book Androphilia: A Manifesto, he wrote, "I am not gay because the word gay connotes so much more than same-sex desire... The word gay describes a whole cultural and political movement that promotes anti-male feminism, victim mentality, and leftist politics."[5] He removed the book from print in 2017, and has said he has "transcended both that identity and that sexuality".[9]

I think it's really just that a lot of them are stupid and probably mentally ill, (I mean I'm going to need stronger evidence to assume this is a purposeful agenda. It's really weird what they're doing but I'm trying not to turn into a conspiracy theorist lol.) I don't think they've necessarily connected that if you want to push people to only have reproductive sex, then men will start to have sex with men instead. Especially if you also ban porn (which they also wish to do.) It's happened in many cultures throughout history and also in prisons. And that's pretty gay.

But I do find femininty attractive because of my sexual interests, so I am going to try and feminise you potentially yeah (probably without even thinking about it like I said before with the eyeliner thing.) Not that I would be around those guys because they're too like that. So they're doing a pretty good job of protecting themselves. Great job lol.

F1nn will just [BEEP] with you for me lol:



Also the ice cream cone alone thing without further context (which I assume there is,) seems like the kind of thought process people with social anxiety have. Like people will often post 'is it OK/weird if I go and do x thing alone?' People talk about that kind of thing online a lot. A lot of the 'is random thing that nobody has ever thought is gay gay?' Thing also seems like a form of anxiety issue or OCD to me tbh. Like when you're worrying about brushing your teeth or wearing a seatbelt etc it's a mental health issue. I think for some people they're doing it for competitive reasons though. Like they're not insecure about it themselves the point is making other people feel insecure by coming up with nonsense.

Lol 'tomboys are not hot' in a tweet with a photo of a hot woman wearing dungarees with long hair and a cap. OK if you say so. This tweet has had the opposite intended impact.

'Attraction to tomboys is homosexuality'

I think it's mostly bisexuality actually. And I don't give a [BEEP] either way.

Actually the ice cream thing I think stems from how women often lick lolipops in a sexy way or ice lollies. And sometimes guys do that too:



Some of those guys are feminine like Jefree Star (he's also bisexual and has sex with men.) I don't really consider Tom Hiddleston to be that feminine here mildly androgyous at best also straight. However to these guys this film would be super gay especially with Tilda Swinton (I don't know about her sexuality she's been in a relationship with a man since 2004):



I point out the femininity thing because these guys are using gay as a synonym for feminine 9 times out of 10 that's why Myron can cuddle in bed with his masc sports bros but guys can't dance with girls or it's 'gay.'

Also Andrew Tate's tweet about reproduction makes him a hypocrite I guess because he said he'd prefer to have sex with a trans woman who looks like Megan Fox than a trans man who looked like Hulk Hogan. Aggressively of course. :/

I've never really considered eating an ice cream hot (which means it's neither feminine nor phallic most likely,) then again strawberries are kind of hot (thanks advertising,) but it is hot when guys lick ice lollies and stuff. IAMX also once had a ice lolly shaped like a dick which he licked on stage. I was not there I just saw photos. I also found licking calippo ice lollies kind of hot before (tbf I once got mildly turned on washing up a cup.) Which is funny because I don't like the idea of that activity in other contexts. I never tried though tbf. Spoiler: M̶a̶y̶b̶e̶ ̶g̶u̶y̶s̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶i̶c̶e̶ ̶l̶o̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶d̶i̶c̶k̶s̶.̶

That's why this is so funny to me but cucumbers aren't sexy although I like to eat them, but I don't like bananas at all:



I've had other thoughts about ice lollies uses too.

You mean ice lollies.

Well it's also funny because he talks about how you can't equate all these fruit and vegetables but for some reason everything he picked is phallic shaped LOL.

Maybe those guys had sexual thoughts about the icecream and feel ashamed yeah. I don't care so much about that since it's not harming anyone. I get more bothered about eg: obsessing over famous people. Not that I stop clearly. And of course I try to avoid reading fanfiction and stuff about real people despite constantly posting about them.

But no I don't think I care about the food thing. Certainly not because 'it seems gay.'

One time I also had a dream where I was licking a lolipop and got turned on. I've had a bunch of autogynephilic sex dreams over the years. Some sexologists believe that is impossible because I'm genetically female lol. 'This is a male paraphilia' tbf I think some argue there are some women with that interest. But 'it doesn't lead to dysphoria' well, have I got some bad news for you lol. Tbf my sexuality is a complicated mess and not black/white.

I did say I was pretty gay. In many different ways.

But it's like:



"What else should I say Everyone is gay"

edit: Here's the thing right this might be a bit harsh but I fundementally believe that if men and women hate each other and are supposed to live in entirely seperate dimorphic cultures where they only come together to reproduce the species would be better off going extinct.

[Nyctophilia]

My faith in Humanity has been restored. 😌 (For the next several minutes.)



I like how my brother assumed I would have seen this video already but I hadn't lol.

But he is correct:







A while back I wanted to make a animatronic spider furby robot. But I realised that would cost too much.

[Nyctophilia]

I started writing a poem about my window sill and then got interrupted by a woodlouse.

I was thinking along the lines of being trapped by glass for part of it which made me think of Return to Oz and then I wondered if people ever referenced films, books, other songs etc in poems like they do in song lyrics. Then I ended up googling about that scene.

And the second result was:

Dorothy helping Ozma come through the glass in Return to Oz made me gay.

hahaha same actually. I think anyway it's hard to pinpoint agewise. If you don't include things that are heavily influenced by fetish stuff where I think gender was probably secondary then I would say so I think.

It's my earliest memory of romantic attraction I think.

I didn't realise until 2020 or something when I randomly remembered that film how gay it is lol. I mean I know gay guys really like the original film but yeah. The books are even moreso I think but I never read them. Spoilers obviously:

I haven't read the books, but today I found out that in some of the later books Dorothy basically marries Princess Ozma! It's also worth mentioning that Princess Ozma is an arguably trans character! Apparently there's even phrase named after their relationship called "Friend of Dorothy" which became slang for lesbians!

I think that was slang for a gay man. I don't think they were married because they're too young lol? But some say they were portrayed as a couple at some point.

Oh wait are they thinking about the genderfluid DC comic book character lol? Apparently she's married to Dorothy. I just googled.

Dorothy fell in love with Tip, but after the curse was undone, she found herself even more attracted to Ozma and after the coronation the two began to date. After escaping to Earth, Ozma married Dorothy shortly after their arrival on Danny the Street.

Yeah that's not cannon in the original book series lol. Also they're both adults.

I wish I could justify Ozma as a trans character.

I kind of read her that way after reading the wikipedia article. In a metaphorical sense obviously.

Unfortunately I seem to remember the book being very explicit about the boy that turns into Ozma being a completely different person who dies or something and becomes the essence of boyhood that lives in the hearts of boys everywhere or something like that.

What? Sounds different to the wikipedia description. I guess some trans people would relate to that metaphor of being a different person that died from comments I've read online though.

There were a lot of like female kid rescues 'princess' type stories in my childhood actually. By a lot I mean Return to Oz, and also Matilda. It feels like a lot though because I don't think that's particuarly common. It's even less common if they're saving male characters probably.

Link is male but also very androgynous but I never actually played any Legend of Zelda games until I was a teenager.

When feminists were ranting (still are I see sometimes on reddit,) about Zelda needing to be saved it was kind of funny to me for a reason I don't think anyone really brought up. Maybe it doesn't count because I'm non-binary anyway but if I'm playing a game I at least somewhat become the character. Especially if they're androgynous. There's a distance sometimes but it's like acting.

Like when I was playing Pokemon when I was 7/8 on the gameboy colour technically the only gender you could have in that game was male (I think starting in Pokemon Crystal they gave you the option of a male or female character, so I often played as female characters later,) but in Pokemon Red and maybe Gold too I just gave that character my name lol. Like I made the character so it's me right? I think sometimes later I would call them Ash (like the TV show character,) and other names as well but definitely the very first character I made I just gave my name. Though this is different because the character lacks any kind of personality really so you can project whatever you want.

The Sims is very different but sort of irrelevant here.

I guess if you oppose the idea of a female character being put into that dynamic in general than it might seem bad. But from the point of view of like girls playing Legend of Zelda I don't necessarily see why they would automatically identify with Zelda?

Also Zelda isn't really a classic 'damsel in distress' imo (and I honestly don't think most female Japanese characters are, it was much more common in classic Disney,) but putting that aside and going with that point.

"Zelda is sexist and bad for girls because it teaches them that women are damsels in distress."

Yeah but weren't you Link? You were supposed to be Link. That was actually the point of Link:

"During the development of Twilight Princess, I went a different route and created a version of Link that was more masculine," he said. "But after Twilight Princess I went back to the drawing board and decided Link should be a more gender-neutral character. Hence I created the version of Link that you see in Breath of the Wild. As far as gender goes, Link is definitely a male, but I wanted to create a character where anybody would be able to relate to the character. So that's why I think the rumor went around that Link could be a female. Because maybe the users were able to relate in that way."

It's kind of sad that some people completely miss the point of a lot of Japanese video game characters like this. Western video games on the other hand don't really do this at all and characters are usually much more sexually dimorphic too (even with character creation.) You get dimorphic characters like that in Japanese games too, but I think it's a lot more common to have androgynous male characters.

Not just in games of course:

Today, bishonen are very popular among girls and women in Japan.[5] Reasons for this social phenomenon may include the unique male and female social relationships found within the genre. Some have theorized that bishonen provide a non-traditional outlet for gender relations. Moreover, it breaks down stereotypes surrounding feminine male characters. These are often depicted with very strong martial arts abilities, sports talent, high intelligence, dandy fashion, or comedic flair, traits that are usually assigned to the hero/protagonist role.[6]

This inspires the aesthetics of female characters in manga created by/for girls and women too:

Bishojo ('beautiful girl') is often mistakenly considered a parallel of bishonen, because of the similar construction of the terms. There are major differences between the two aesthetics. The bishojo aesthetic is aimed at a male audience, and is typically centered on young girls, drawn in a cute, pretty style; bishonen is aimed at a female audience, centered on teenage boys, and drawn elegantly. Another common mistake is assuming that the female characters in bishonen manga and anime are bishojo. In truth, female characters in bishonen manga are very different from those in bishojo; bishojo females are usually more petite and drawn in a style that is cute rather than beautiful, whereas bishonen females exhibit the long limbs and elegance of the bishonen themselves.[14]

Has been noted a bunch:

The other typical trait of shojo works is the androgyny of the characters, both male and female can be pretty androgynous. Although today it's not rare to find androgynous characters in other demographics, at the origin it was something exclusive to shojo. By extension of the androgyny, the characters are usually long-legged, thin and tall in shojo; CLAMP is probably one of the best example

Yeah like this she has a large chest (which is not always the case,) but her limb length is insane lol:





^ This is from Code Geass? Haven't watched/read that. I think sometimes women want to look like Lelouch too who is a male character on that show. Strange Aeons mentioned that she used to as a teen or something in a video once.



I've seen this in manhwa (Korean comics) I read aimed at women too like Model:



The character with the black hair is the female protagonist (I think? It's been a while but she has long black hair) And the character with the white hair is a male vampire.



There are more 'cute' and 'girly' female characters in these works too but I don't think they tend to be as popular with women.

This can still be potentially problematic such as girls and women preferring to look like this aesthetic when they are instead petite and 'cute' (although tbh at least in the West it seems this aesthetic is more common among [BEEP] women than heterosexual women who usually want to be short and curvy etc,) also partly because of the personality traits and not identifying with the cute personality. Also some guys feel bad that they don't look like bishounen characters, though most guys often prefer to look more like Kratos than bishounen characters and then might get insecure about that. And ironically neither aesthetic is that attractive on average to the 'opposite sex' (men usually prefer curvier women, women usually prefer slim-fit 'athletic' guys to guys who look like Kratos,) not that people necessarily need to care about that (especially if queer.)

Guys also don't necessarily get this:

If Link were to become less Bishounen/Pretty boy.

And say Nintendo took a page out of God of War and remodelled Link so he looked more like Kratos or Chris Redfield. I mean people tend to hate WW/PH/ST Link because he appears to childish so what if Nintendo move as far in the opposite direction as possible.


Do you think would be as huge a backlash as ther was with toon link and how would you personally feel on him becoming less Bishie?

And of course if you read the thread it's very obviously mostly female gamers who are defending/admiring the aesthetic. Often by pointing out they find Link pretty to look at which if you switched the genders would be seen as problematic lol.

:|

I think there will always be a group of people that make a stink about significant changes to any series/franchise. So, yes, there would be a backlash if Link was made to be less bishonen.

Usually Link starts out in the story as an unexperienced/unskilled boy, right? So it wouldn't make a lot of sense for him to look too buff. But, if he were a farmer or something then they certainly could justify him looking more manly.

As for myself, I'd rather have somebody pretty to look at. ;)

Some people didn't care at all:

I think Link's looks are one of the last reasons anybody plays Zelda... It's never mattered to me anyway, I just enjoyed the games. I guess some of the more "obsessive" side of the fanbase would make a fit about it though, so maybe. As long as he's still Link and keeps the green like he always has, I'm not bothered, haha

Some people were pretty strongly opposed to his aesthetic being changed:

i dont like this idea because link is what makes the series so unique
now im not saying that i like the ww kind, but making link like kratos? i think thats one of the worst things that they could do

One person felt he wasn't hot enough:

Well, I don't think Link needs to become a full-time basass, but I would like him to be less of a pretty boy.

I actually don't really mind Toon Link. I'm talking about the others. Link has the potential to be a super hottie, but he just isn't! And it's because he's got girly features!

Link in TP, for example, looks WAY too girlish.

Some people specifically hated the idea of God of War's artstyle while otherwise not caring:

I don't think I'd personally care... but if Nintendo takes any inspiration from a series like God of War then gaming is doomed.
Heh heh... well seriously though, I don't care how childish or "pretty" Link looks, and I don't think that any true Zelda fan should care much.

This guy dislikes these characters but thinks Link isn't as bad as Square Enix characters (probably purely based on the fandom more than actual aesthetic):

The only Japanese VG characters that aren't blatantly intentional bishounen prettyboy characters are Ryu (the gold standard of fighting game protagonists can't spend time putting on a smirking bugger-***** act), Solid Snake (Raiden was practially satire by comparison), and Frank West (who was purposely made to be as ordinary a guy as possible). Other than that, most JP game studios really have a poor grasp, if any, on both superficial and in-depth elements of manliness. Things like a squealing teen-age girl demographic making up the majority of a character's fanbase is usually just a testament to how unmanly and sickeningly effiminate that character really is (who left that red trench coat over there?). That, and I'd say Link is at least less of one than the likes of contemporary Square Enix characters. It helps that Link also isn't put into the 'reluctant leader' character that's usually associated with generic bishounens. If people want an example of a real leader, as well as what a manly character really is, they should wiki a little name called Optimus Prime.

It amuses me. The worst thing to be as a heterosexual man - for a lot of men - is attractive to women lol. But it's the same the other way around often. It's very ego dystonic for a lot of people.

I wouldn't say that being hated by men is necessary for feminine self definition in quite the same way though. But I'd have to think about that more. It doesn't seem like it is.

Second of all, there is no way without an extremely specific weight lifting regimen anyone could get that muscular. Hell, there's no way without steroids anyone could get that muscular. I hate it when video games feature impossibly muscular guys; it's just absurd. Link has always had the appropriate physique for his adventuring/ranching ways. Now, I wouldn't complain if they let his facial hair grow out into stubble or a little beard or something, though.

^ Same kind of argument guys in the West make about muscular female characters lol.

But I always say if people want pretty characters (male or female,) to play Japanese games as the West is much more masculinised in general. Well either that or download mods that change the appearence of NPC's/characters. Now in the West you get a lot of people complaining about masculine female characters and that's my general response 'play Japanese games.'

I don't have particular affinity for young seeming or chibi characters though so although I see no real reason to dramatically change his aesthetic I tend to prefer characters that are less young looking since my aesthetic preferences were inspired by a particular kind of androgyny. But it is at the end of the day aimed at kids. You can play the games at any age but lets be real.

I don't even know that I knew Link was male growing up. I don't think I really processed him as having a gender per se. I mean art work of him was everywhere so I knew of him before playing too. He is male because the writer emphasised that before. He's sort of an elf (not quite but yeah I think the lore varies on that,) but he looks like one so I didn't really think of him as Human and that seemed more important to me. That archetype seems to be deeply embedded in a way that transcends gender hence all the mythology and dmt stuff:

I had my second one and I met the DMT machine elves during part of my trip. There were multiple Figures but two of them stuck out to me most. One was feminine and the other was a masculine but young energy. If anyone?s met the elves. If you remember their names can you please comment them I want to run a mini social experiment

Kind of like that.

I only met one in mine and she was feminine but she inferred there were others that were male or genderless; there was also an element of their gender not really mattering or meaning the same things as it does out here.

When I was browsing through psychonaut threads before someone posted this too lol (and this is related to the aesthetics you see here now not just in video games someone even pointed out architecture):

Gender equality. Do we have it all wrong?

For context, I'm a man. My short answer to my question is yes, I think we do.

This is one of my more recent 'breakthroughs'. Not achieved directly on a trip, but undoubtedly influence by such.

My view is there are infinite dualities in the universe and one of the defining ones is the masculine/ feminine.

I equate masculine to knowledge and feminine to wisdom, a concept I have come across from others as well.

Our society today has progressed to the masculine/ knowledge extreme. We lack the feminine wisdom to bring us in balance and further our evolution as a species.

Taking a look at how economies, countries, people, resources, relationships, aspiration are managed? All very masculine - competition, progress at any cost, power, glory, domination, gratification. It starts at school.

There is little compassion, love, nurturing, forgiveness, intuition.

[...]

In my (now abandoned) corporate life I came across plenty of high achieving women. They all had to play the male game!! Often they have to be the ball busting variety to prove their worth to the top. It must be bloody awful for them. And ironically, they are often the ones that are harsher to other women in the workplace. As though they are afraid to be seen to favour 'their kind'!

This is not equality to me as I now understand it. Far from it. True equality is to recognise the natural feminine strengths and gifts as equally important to our existence. The divine and dark feminine energies.

Why do women have to delay getting pregnant to have a good career? Why do we have to have laws in place to make sure they don't get overlooked? Why when a bloke sleeps around they get a high five, but women are shamed for having no morals or ethics. And who defined what these are? Men. Men of 'religion'. Why can we not celebrate a woman who has a lot of raw sexual feminine energy and taps into it? If they choose to.

Women should not be taught to play the same game as men. They are wonderfully different and should be treated as such. If we as men find the strength to let go of the delusional control we have over everything and allow ourselves to listen and learn, we have so much (lost) wisdom to regain.

We have gone so far down the masculine/knowledge extreme, complete destruction seems inevitable if we continue without change. The answer is under our noses.

And a final thought, in recognising the masculine and feminine energies in their true form as of equal value, it gives all of us, across all genders the licence to tap into both inside us and be more balanced as individuals and societies. No, men don't always have to be macho, because they really are very vulnerable as well and that's ok. And women don't have to be all feminine and girly because they really are very strong in different ways.

Goodness, I really need to learn to write shorter posts 😅

I don't think any of what he wants will happen because no one will give up control. It isn't just men who want control either. Lots of people want control.

The last paragraph didn't really fit what he was saying during the rest I fee. It was like 'women are different and that's OK' and then 'women don't have to be all feminine and girly men don't have to be macho' ??? So I can see why some people responding were confused.

I also find duality concepts pretty frustrating sometimes for obvious reasons.

I've never done any drugs besides alcohol but I really related to what I was reading the other day lol about some of the 'entities' people were seeing on trips being annoyed by people placing things into a duality (this being I think the reason for the dislike of Christianity possibly but it might also be that when people think of Christianity they start to have an emotional reaction based off the fear of machine elves being demons because I think your experience is influenced of course by your emotional response.)

I think people's experience in this regard varies a lot though like in this thread and also noticed people discussing this that they often mention feminine, genderless or androgynous 'entities' but masculinity while it gets brought up is less common. He was asking for specifically female opinions though in this thread but said when discussing with his male friends they felt it was a bigger deal when feminine entities presented themselves:

What a few friends of mine were discussing though is how it seems like feminine energy seems to be much more...prominent when it's encountered in the DMT realm. Like, a more male entity my present itself, and I kind of just see an entity, and there's usually not much else to it. But when an entity with feminine energy presents itself, it's much more of a bigger deal, you feel?

What I was wondering is whether similar things happen to women who smoke DMT, whether there's a more prominent energy with masculinity or femininity or what have you.

Not really. I wouldn't describe anything I've encountered on DMT as clearly masculine or feminine. I did encounter what I've labeled as "the mushroom goddess" on psilohuasca (psilocybin and an MAOI).

I'm a female & my first DMT trip, when i "arrived" all the entities were excited I was"finally there" and they had been "waiting for me" (they communicated this), but I've had male friends tell me they've experienced something similar. Also, there were women dancing. Edit: I wanted to add, what I learned from the trip was my purpose in life as a woman, which is to care tenderly for all living things and to pass down unconditional love and wisdom to them.

Never had a proper DMT experience but on a heroic dose of shrooms I have encountered a female entity that was both extremely comforting and terrifying at the same time. She wanted me to leave my place and come with her but I had this deep rooted sense that if I did I would never be able to come back, plus my friend needed a little bit of trip sitting because he tends to get a little anxious and excitable so I chose not to follow but man, do I wish I had.

I've only done DMT a handful of times, but I don't recall meeting any predominantly female entities. I met a crotchety looking nun, but she was the only one.

I'm pretty sure I met God's male half, but not the female half. Not yet anyway, although I'd like to. She sounds delightful.

In my experiences, albeit limited (~8-10 blast offs) I've always felt more omniscient or rather androgynous energies, rather than male or female specifically.

In my experiences with DMT/other psychedelics is that most entities are female. I have experienced a few male entities but they are not as common.

In this thread someone commenting had a more masculine experience well they don't go into the experience but attribute it to psychedelics:

Do any guys feel more female? Or don't like feeling masculine

Not talking about sexuality, just like the essence of femininity, hard to put into words, like the way music flows through or the way you interact with the world

I have found the opposite, the more I have explored with psychedelics, the more in touch with my masculinity I have become. I feel like I can be at ease with it, express myself more. I have also been doing strength training at the gym for the last 14 months and so have put on more muscle and naturally boosted my testosterone. I feel like for the first time that it is okay to be male and express my masculinity.
Society wants you to believe that masculinity is "toxic" because it's easier to control a less masculine population of males. I feel we need to embrace all aspects of it IMO and that includes violence. It just needs to be channeled into productive rather than destructive ends. Learn a combat sport so you can defend your family, that sort of thing.

I had a feeling about this and I looked through his post history and it really reafirmed exactly that I always kind of 'know' lol:

If you want to learn about female nature and inter-gender relations then Rollo Tomassi's book series "The Rational Male" is amazing, but fair trigger warning, it is part of what is called "The Red Pill" which will destroy the disney fantasy of how the world works and can be a bit of a dark path.

On the lighter side, I really enjoyed "The way of the superior man" by David Deida and "The way of Men" by Jack Donovan

LOL OF COURSE IT'S JACK DONOVAN.

Rollo seems like a complete narcissistic tosser too. I'm kind of the anti Andrew Tate in the sense that I'm only going to tolerate arrogance if you're feminine lol. Like he said arrogance is OK in males but bad in females. Well that's all subjective really isn't it? Even then it's not good like that guy with the website who is very drawn to femininity but is a narcissist. It's better than you imo - but it's still not good I would say.

Anyway that being said I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with being protective. I feel that way towards people I'm attracted to sometimes. I dislike the worldview of these guys because it's very binary among other issues - I can't even articulate all of them lol which is something I'm working on.

Someone responded with this:

No, you misunderstand. Currently society promotes a toxic view of masculinity rooted in dominator energy. There is now understandable backlash against this energy, which is likely where your view stems from, but that is not what it means to be masculine. They?re fictional examples, but compare Aragorn to someone like James Bond or DiCaprio?s character in Wolf of Wall Street. Aragorn is no less strong (or violent) for his compassionate side. He rules justly and with fairness, has tenderness and affection for those whom he loves, but isn?t afraid to exert his Will in the name of righteousness or protecting the ones close to him. He builds up those around him, and doesn?t compete or tear them down out of spite or insecurity. This is a much better ideal to strive for than what our society has historically promoted.

Wounded masculine energy rules our society. It projects strength because it is hurting and fearful. True masculine energy has no need to project this way. It is rooted in a divine sense of knowing. Expressing this masculine energy is good and something the world needs right now, but in order to do so, we must heal the wounds we have lived through for the last several thousand years. We must stop objectifying and dominating the feminine energy of the planet (as seen by our consumerist civilization?s attempt to dominate to dominate nature). We must learn to trust again and work with in tandem, not control out of fear.

So this is another thread:

A lot of the time we talk about how certain drugs connect us to our natural, feminine, and creative side. While I certainly see this, my experiences with psychedelics have made me much closer to masculinity. I felt the strength of each one of my muscles, and the blood of thousands of years of ancestors flowing through me. When I managed to climb a cliff, I felt the same sense of adrenaline that every one of them felt before me, that sense of conquering. It's a hard feeling to describe other than to say that it's manly.

Anyone else?

I don't think creativity is feminine.

The first time I took a significant dose of MXE I walked around naked for two hours flexing, talking like Batman, doing tons of situps, pushups, and pullups, and masturbating with a ridiculous erection to porn which featured very aggressive sex.

So I guess you could say yes.

Masturbating to porn is more beta that alpha 👌

OK lol.

But tbf there is something horrifying about this (for me,) which I'm trying to explore. Maybe not this example it seems more comical honestly lol but...

I think there's the sense - this is a worldview that seems to exist - that masculinity should be something that people who aren't exclusively masculine men hate (It's difficult to define because the categories they use aren't based on sex, gender identity and so on,) and that very much relates to that comment about Link and Square Enix characters like if a woman likes you you're not masculine. So in a way taken to the extreme which these psychopathic guys on social media are doing - it is very homosexual. It's impossible to be liked by a woman and be masculine in this worldview.

So if I think of masculine characters I like but don't always agree with - like Ron Swanson (and I think they did a pretty good job of making a character like that relatable and someone I could empathise with,) but I'm sure there's a lot of people who think he's very feminised. In fact I know there will be because for some people it's like this impossible ideal that they're never to achieve and since they want to I feel like that must be some kind of nightmare.

So in this worldview women are still necessary for reproduction which is another reason I think artificial wombs would be good because it would be interesting to see what these guys do then. Like they can just [BEEP] off at that point lol. I like the idea that women will abandon them. I think in an ideal situation they'd form like warrior cults with artificial wombs and just reproduce men and fight all the time lol. This might seem like a form of hatred lol like 'I want women to abandon them' and it is a form of hatred really on a deep level lol. Like I view them in this almost archetypal way as some kind of opponent/nemesis in the universe. I also get sadistic enjoyment out of the idea of them being completely cut off from femininity.

But it's also that I want them to have what they claim to want. I don't know if they want that though. Because at the moment they do still want to control women that's important to a lot of them - it was important to Andrew Tate lol. They can't peform their masculinity without women because they're not actually homosexual (in theory lol that's disputed.) But I think they should be forced to try. I want them to have no excuse.

And then there's also 'dark femininity' lets say you could call it that - this means different things to different people though. To me I'd include someone like Loki in Marvel comics + the MCU - specifically in Marvel works - I think he's very different archetypally from Norse mythology. In Marvel he's absorbed somewhat figures like Inanna and also has a general darkness like Satan. So a lot of men with this worldview (tm) (lol I need a label,) dislike these characters - I think our culture has a very ambivalent relationship with them that's why they're technically villains but a lot of people kind of like them anyway. But also sometimes just similar 'masculine' traits in women being something a lot of these men hate. Sometimes hypocritically like I said. They have the same ideal in a male form and then expect women to be feminine and submissive.

On that note I have no patience for this either:

My friend got radicalized by the "divine feminine" and now thinks women are only meant to serve their husband and kids. I'm considering ending my friendship with her. [...]

Over time though, she started to get into the "divine feminine" trend on social media. If you don't know, it's basically a rebranded version of the patriarchy. Being a "divine female" means being submissive, staying at home and serving your family. Anna started talking about how her exes were forcing her to have "masculine energy" and how she wanted a "strong protector alpha male". A few months later, she dropped out of college and started talking about how she wanted to be a housewife how it was her "destiny". I found all of this weird, but I figured it was her life, not mine. She posted a lot about "divine feminine" online too, but it was pretty mild stuff like angel numbers, aesthetic posts, or just quotes about womanhood. Nothing too alarming.

I moved not long after, and have only seen her twice since, so I didn't know how deep she had gotten into the "divine feminine" rabbit hole. That is, until a few days ago, when she posted a video of some famous male podcasters on her story with the caption "watch this". The men in the video talk about how having careers actually "harms" women, and how the first priority of a "female" (ew) should always be to have a family.

The divine feminine are (no doubt 'alpha') male podcasters? Haha. Why not. I like it.

They'd hate it.

is this the man that says that women are more emotional then men?

20% of me is like this dude needs therapy and this is sad. But I'm leaning into my psychopath [BEEP] with this guy because he's a psychopath anyway so like

I'm disgusted, and I don't know where to go from here. Anna wasn't like this when we first met, at the very least she wasn't this extreme. Honestly, I don't think we can be friends anymore. Difference of opinion is one thing, but knowing she views me wanting a career as "wrong" and "masculine" (???), I don't think I can do it. I feel gutted for some reason, like I was deceived or something. Do I ghost her? Do I send her a message saying we can?t be friends? I don?t know. Just needed to write it out.

I was shocked. Anna claimed to be a feminist when we first met, so seeing her praise that rhetoric felt so out of place. I replied to the video saying I disagreed and that women have the right to a career as much as men do. She responded by saying that childbearing was a woman's "biological goal", and that focusing on career was "unnatural" for us. She also started saying that women who were childfree were always unfulfilled, and that it was our "divine feminine duty" to be mothers.

TLDR: My spiritual friend started getting into the 'divine feminine' trend a few months ago. At first it wasn't that bad but now she's posting videos about how women are only meant to stay home and have children. I don't think we can be friends anymore but I don't know how to go about this.

She should tell her she's a devouring mother lol.

I think her hopeless romantic nature + her spirituality + the fact that she always goes for sigma male Andrew Tate stans all pushed her into believing this kind of stuff.

I feel like she convinces herself that it's normal for the men she likes to treat her as subhuman since it's part of her ~divine feminine nature~. It's unfortunate, since she's a great person and deserves so much better than what she settles for.

I hope she ends up destroying her male partners by asking them to eat ice cream and such.

So yeah no one said you had to be Zelda. But I know that's not how it works for a lot of people even while playing video games. I remember a guy saying he couldn't enjoy Tomb Raider for example because she's a female character and that kind of blew my mind. I guess she is very feminine looking though and I'm not as big on playing very physically masculine characters myself because of my aesthetic preferences. And also part of that with fighting games might be that I don't like the physics. Like the slow feeling. I like playing faster characters.

My favourite character to play as a kid in Tekken was Hwoarang initially because he had long hair (also red hair which I've said many times kind of became a thing for me when making video game characters.) I wouldn't say he's classically bishounen and his appearence changes in different games, but he is slightly androgyous in Tekken 3 and 4. Also I kind of like motorbikes in video games. I also liked Jin because of the whole demon thing (he's also kind of like Vincent Valentine thinking about it lol.) I didn't really connect with Xiaoyu (who is a feminine female character,) and found her annoying to play in the demo that I had on playstation at the time so would often pick Eddie instead (there were only two options from what I remember.) Again though this was partly a gameplay thing. I actually think she's a more challenging character to play.

I've never played God of War (who that guy brought up when talking about Link,) but Kratos is the perfect example of a male character who I don't find remotely attractive romantically/sexually or connect with aesthetically.

I could still enjoy a game if I liked the gameplay and story though. It's not such an extreme preference that I literally wouldn't be able to enjoy a game at all.

Like I mentioned Rorsharch in my other post as being a masculine character I was attracted to (not now tbh but for a while when I was 20 I think.) Based on the film adaptation. Again this isn't based on his ideological views or anything like that (and it's also been ages since I watched the film so I'm going off memory,) but he exists as this character who people make incorrect assumptions about. Like that scene where he's like 'none of you seem to understand I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me.' So that kind of power fantasy is appealing to me because he's underestimated and physically short (the actor is 5'5" which for Hollywood is really short, they get guys who are 5'10" to play short characters usually and the character in the comics is 5'6") Also at the time I was younger and there was the edgelord aspect lol. Oh and yeah, identification is somewhat important in my attraction at least to guys. He has red hair too lol........

Alan Moore definitely didn't want people to identify with the character and he wasn't intended to be a role model or anything like that. He actually felt very strongly about this:

Alan Moore said he was shocked and revolted by how much people liked Rorschach. He even went on to say that anyone who professed an admiration for the character could "stay the [BEEP] away" from him.

I like Alan Moore as well and see him as a kind of inspirational figure I mean things he's said and also I have a fictional character I created once that's loosely based on him lol. I wonder what he'd think about some weird non-binary person who looks very feminine having a connection with the character lol.

I haven't played God of War but that's not really related. I haven't played a lot of games and don't play video games often now besides Runescape and various Sims games atm. It's like with films I just don't bother very often now unless I leave the house and play video games in an arcade and watch films at the cinema. I am too distractible and there's some kind of barrier stopping me from starting things my brain considers new it's bizarre.

Apparently this is a symptom of ADHD which probably makes sense (I think this has gotten worse for me though but it's always been a struggle):

Is it just me or anyone else face the situation where finding new tv series or movie is so hard whereas watching familiar tv shows is so comforting that you binge on those on either YouTube or Netflix. But never a new one unless you really force yourself to watch it but probably would never finish it ?

It's more of a problem with films than TV shows since films are longer, but with TV shows it depends on how much I have to invest into it. Like if it's something I can vaguely watch while playing eg Runescape at the same time (yeah it's bad,) then that's fine. Then obviously I have various hyperfixations.

Another thing is video game characters don't have genders in a very literal sense. They aren't Human they are pixels on a screen.

[Nyctophilia]

Lol I've kind of gone all over the place over the years so there was never like a before and after. Some really cringe selfies too. At this point I haven't really taken any for years I think. Besides when out at a couple of places.

I basically only like photos of myself which disguise how round my face is. I don't like my face shape in a lot of photos. Especially if I'm smiling just makes my face look rounder.



I don't really know her work or much about her but I've seen people talking about her for years now. All kid stars end up going through this phase because they're forced into a very restrictive box and are highly visible in the public eye so anyone older than the age she is (age 20,) can't really be all that shocked. Not only that but people in general now experiment with their identity well into their 20s instead of during their teen years because of how our culture is structured. I don't know if people have collective memory loss from when the younger millenials and older gen z people were doing this.

A decade ago everyone was tearing apart Miley Cyrus after she abandoned the Hannah Montana thing, and now have decided she's OK again.



Oh I see someone brought that up:

A famous teenager who started off sweet, smiley, and then suddenly wanted to do something drastic to show she's not like the others? Where have I seen that before???

Man this really hit everyone like a Wrecking Ball.

Difference is Miley actually was a wild child 😂😂😂

Lol nobody thought that at the time I was there. It was the og era of cringe content online. Especially when she came out as genderfluid she got tons of shit.

Now all the middle aged white dad types who were annoyed with her are like 'I misunderstood you you're not that bad' because she went on Joe Rogan and started doing rock music covers.

Such is the circle of life.

I'm 300 yrs old, I really love when she does this kind of music. bless you.

lol







Not that the rock music covers weren't good. And I personally prefer that genre too.

Also of course it's not only Miley. It's really anyone who gets famous young. You know remember in the 2000s (yes I am old) lol this interviewer looks so 2000s:





Not as old as the dads (tm) but still.

Lindsay Lohan. People are still freaking out about Kristen Stewart's wardrobe every 5 minutes on twitter. Yes she's still bisexual. She hasn't been Bella since 2012.



I don't know why but it's every 5 minutes with Kristen Stewart specifically. She was also more androgynous as a kid and played androgynous roles in films etc:





Then every generation tries to make out that the new is cringier than the last one when really people are having the exact same reaction. To mostly the same things too honestly.

"This one is more fake and for attention and money than the last"

OK whatever. Are we going to do this forever or? I guess so.

The situation with Kristen Stewart really shows how bad bi erasure still is.

This is a bisexual woman being attacked by conservatives for expressing her bisexuality, yet people who are defending her keep referring to her as lesbian and gay and queer, but never bisexual.

That annoys me too.

the first movie i saw kristen stewart in when i was a kid was panic room and i thought she was a little boy for half the movie so like what are conservatives even talking about

And that film wasn't even her most boyish role I think. But the 'lets find someone who's like a mini Jodie Foster' should have been a clue considering you know.

Kristen Stewart is not okay. Rolling Stone is salty that "conservatives" (or really just normal, intelligent people in general who can think for themselves instead of depending on others to do it for them) are noticing how fake news tabloids like theirs are pushing a depressing, self-harming woke agenda that's dangerous to young people and especially to women.

All things considered she's suprisingly OK actually.

What drives me insane abt the Kristen Stewart pics is all the conservatives who are like "why is she a lesbian now! why did she go woke!!" As if she hasn?t been loudly a huge lesbian for the last?? 10-12 years 😭

*bisexual

Honestly conservatives getting annoyed at Kristen Stewart for looking like a butch bisexual goes against all their "we only care about the surgery of kids let people express themselves how they want to"

Honestly the sad thing is she's not even butch lol. She's literally just androgynous. Compare her to the butch lesbian with the long hair in this video (I mean because they act a lot more masculinely in spite of the long hair.) The bar is so low now for conservative freak outs:



I'm always saying this. Because of egalitarian homosexuality people who in other cultures would live in third gender borderline-male roles are actually feminising themselves in the West lol! And you're still complaining! But they're basically not OK with anything that isn't gender conforming heterosexuality so you can't really win regardless.

She did a soft porn shoot & everyone is pretending the 70s & 80s never happened

It's not just music the current generation is missing out on; they also don't have any real feminist or lesbian heroes who aren't performing the same tired stereotypes for the male gaze

Kids deserve to grow up whole & healthy
Women & girls deserve their own spaces & opportunities
Gay men & lesbians deserve respect for their same-sex orientation

Gosh Michael the straight 'gender critical' man I don't think the lesbians share your opinion somehow:





Lol ah man. Just the massive wave of I don't know could be called 'concern trolling' from mostly straight people pretending they're sticking up for lesbians so they can attack trans people - usually trans women. And then they say stuff like 'It's OK to be gender non conforming and cis' but they don't mean it and they have a meltdown over Kristen Stewart every 5 minutes. Most of the people criticising that shoot were men saying she was ugly somehow I don't think it was 'male gaze.' Certainly not straight male gaze.

Regardless Kristen Stewart is still bisexual so what your comment has to do with fucking anything I don't know.

What else is Michael doing? JK Rowling follows this [BEEP] btw. This complete lunatic is someone she follows when she's not engaging in holocaust denial.

Oh I see he's been harassing this person:

Am I ever going to sleep with a trans woman? Idk. I'm a bit a of a serial monogamist and so my partners have all been cis lesbians to date. But how can I say it would never happen? The law of averages states that my partners have a 90% chance of being cis. I don?t get your point.

Alongside some female gender critical woman:

You're hot for cross-dressing men who call themselves "lesbians" while pretending they have support from "gay women"

It's so gross when heterosexual women larp as lesbians to get lesbians to have sex with your husbands & boyfriends

wtf are you talking about Michael?

Probably not a woman either.
At this point nothing it says will be true.

OK so we're just going to casually call her 'it' OK.

She can use the men's where her favourite male woman will [BEEP] in the next stall for his onlyfans account.

Spicy straight!
You admitted a thing for transbians, so you aren't what you claim. Or this is a sock account for a dude.

Absolute lunatics. They said some even crazier stuff too. Of course she's straight:

What community?
The community of perverts and exhibitionists?

Keep it. You are becoming socially toxic. Child endangering, sexist and homophobic eugenics proponents.

You are spending your time yelling at a cis woman who is attracted to cis women and trans women for her sexual preferences. You are the bigot.

As I said twitter is the nicotine heroine meth of the social media world.

And Kristen Stewart is in some film now so I assume they will be freaking out about something again soon I don't know.

They hire these [BEEP] and 'high openness' extroverted kids because those are the ones who go into theatre and acting and force them into some weird femme conservative bubbly thing and then people get confused when they do weird or 'cringe' [BEEP] and don't act like conservatives for their entire lives lol. Jojo has about 10+ years of identity development to go through that was stunted in a culture that is overly judgemental so buckle up I guess.

The jojo bizare's adventure to be continued thing was funny though.

[Nyctophilia]

And Kristen Stewart is in some film now so I assume they will be freaking out about something again soon I don't know.

Not sure about the film but you have that underwear shoot again:

This is a month after they put fake lesbian Kristen Stewart in mens underwear on the cover.

This is some next level grooming. They really are coming for your daughters. Billie is idolized by preteens.

YOU MEAN BISEXUAL

.
@billieeilish
tells Rolling Stone she likes to masturbate in front of a mirror.

"Partly because it's hot, but it also makes me have such a raw, deep connection to myself and my body, and have a love for my body that I have not really ever had."

She's said a lot of stupid [BEEP] but she's so real for this.

Anything but having them happily married and having children. That's their objective. But we have to begin to ask who? Who wants this? It's the [redacted.] They are the force behind the destruction of Western Civilization. They despise it!

Well if that's your fetish that's fine but it's a bit much to expect everyone to share it.

Does she have a penis ?

You are all insane.

Is Kristen Stewart dying? I think Billie is rising as the new lesbian supreme

you don't have to be abused to know what porn is. i learned about porn at 12 and started masturbating at 11. but i wasn't sexually abused.

Are you sure. You have a car in your profile picture and what I've learned is that people who like cars are usually overcompensating for something? that combined with your early masturbation makes me think you harbor repressed trauma. Men who like cars usually have trauma related to women which isn't always apparent.

Gaslighting people with nonsensical bs into believing they were abused isn't cool.

It's not hard. Image consultants for labels are on TikTok and telling the product that acting gay lesbian furry trans is cool and edgy and will sell. Or does anyone actually think Billie Eilish just suddenly "discovered herself"?

I felt like that when I first heard of Alanis Morissette

Alanis the gay lesbian trans furry.



I think this about confirms my earlier question of 'would they have a problem with Avril if she was starting out today?'

And I assume at the time but I got to mostly avoid these morons.

"I'm afraid of people, I'm afraid of the world. It's just scary for somebody like me..."

Yeah I get that. People are batshit crazy and I'm not even a famous person they're ranting about.

From Chloe Cole's lawsuit against Kaiser , her decision to detransition came after she did massive amounts of LSD and had a religious conversion experience and heard voices.

Weird coincidence lol. Yeah while reading anecdotes about halcinogens recently I came across people who have gone in both directions usually with less drama.

So many of these political detransitioners have intense religious conversions that trigger their detransition. It's the ex gay movement all over again.

Most of the people who get stuck talking to them militantly seem to have BPD or something else weird going on honestly. Olly London is clearly off, and then there was someone else who has diagnosed BPD they admitted to who has gone back and forth multiple times between being anti-trans and being trans and so on.

There's a similar dynamic to the reaction to that guy whose tweet I quoted above where that anti-porn woman is trying to convince him he was abused.



This is bleak man. [BEEP] these people for enabling this.

Oh just realised that's that person with the YouTube channel I've stumbled on a few times. First before they even detransistioned they made a video about Jordan Peterson that was supportive. They struck me as someone who was quite easily shamed since they were playing respectability politics years ago even before detransisitoning.

Also, if you don't wish to medically transisiton (again in this case,) you at least need to not lean into this hardcore Christian traditionalist [BEEP] that's going to make your dysphoria even worse.

I decided to check their tweets (this isn't the same person as the one who did lsd btw but they did make a video about doing psilocybin actually,) and they seem to be arguing they aren't that miserable now in spite of 'not being cured.'

I'm personally suspicious when people bounce from one kind of fixed extreme to another. They also seem to have had other dreams that they just abandoned randomly.

Also describing yourself as a 'miserable wretched sinner' is ultimately unproductive.

I would bet money that they were transmed in the past and disagreed with non-binary identity. I see this pattern a lot.

Opposite gender. It is not worth trying. Reality will always win in the end. This is the loving thing to tell people who are suffering.

And don't tell me I'm "cis" and I don't know what this type of suffering feels like. I know this type of torment well.

You can't have it both ways so you can fight agains trans people lol. You either understand what it feels like, or you're totally OK and happy being a woman.

Regardless of whether I transistion medically or not - and I haven't I would not want to be pregnant and also have always avoided penetrative sex, and traditional gender roles in relationships would make me very uncomfortable etc...



Why do you have to 'cope' with them? You said you were completely fine lol.

But taking this at face value yeah you definitely don't know anything about how trans people feel lol. And I'm on the mildest end of a spectrum essentially.

If I didn't know she'd transistioned and all that in videos I'd assume she was trolling honestly.

It might be a kink thing too. I've seen that before too. Weird popular subreddit in fact.

You can cook and be a dude, bro

Men are allowed to cook steak and burgers but nothing else

OK now you're just taking the piss.

Why not just dress like a guy if you feel like it? o_o

I no longer own any men's clothing

Thought experiment: imagine the response from 'GCs' if this tweet had come from a trans woman.

I'm already reading it the way they'd read it from a trans woman lol.

I've seen a lot of stuff in my time.



That's unfortunate because you're going to be in exactly the same mental place in 20+ years when your kids are grown up and you've run out of distractions + homophobia about how kids need opposite sex parents. And you haven't thought about that but I guess Jesus will save you or something.

You've been occupying my thoughts lately. First off: I struggled with gender dysphoria too. Since I was 3. I'm also a person who tends to shift between extremes. I'm also a person who got media attention for leaving a group of people (I have reality on where you've been).

In my case - it was the reverse of you. A Woke group convinced me to leave my religion with the promise of media attention and it was the greatest regret of my life. Have you ever heard of a woman named Leah Remini?

Lot of parallels between us actually. Though in the end is was Psychiatry and addiction that did me in rather than gender dysphoria. I went back to my religion eventually, but by then, it was too late. My body was too damaged by Psych Drugs (amongst other things.)

Yes, I'd noticed.



No no. I'm into feminising other people. I'm only into being my own feminine sex object when I dream sometimes (though it's been years now I think tbh,) - unlike you who are male when you dream. Funny that. Even then it's just me and not other people. The focus was mostly on clothes and behaviour too, maybe anatomy slightly I forget, and mostly clothes.

And I can feminise you just as well as a woman (and seeing as you're so hung up on this husband thing and seem lowkey homophobic I think you should be a femme lesbian yeah I'd like that for you.)

Make me a sandwich.

I'm not going to go dig up that comment but if I stumbled on that on twitter I would have knee jerk said as much to her honestly.

I mean she knows that this is not going to work for most people and she's obviously doing this on purpose to bother people.

as if there weren't already trans men forced to do this before they transitioned? as if there weren't plenty of afab people who, before knowing about being trans, were raised to believe that was the only life path allowed for them, and dreaded the thought? please

Also why is she commenting on Noah Finnce's videos. This is in January. You should really consider force feminising your boyfriend instead. Seems like a missed opportunity.

Her first few posts about de transition were fairly level headed and then verrrrryyyyy quickly got weird. Super strange to see

A female wearing feminine clothes is not cross dressing

Oh it definitely can be.

I love how shes like "put on a dress itll feel great" as if im not walking around in skirts all the time lmfao

Good start! I'd also recommend fully detransitioning and leaving the LGBTQIIAA2S+ community entirely. Also giving your life to Christ.

it's mad to me you don't know how insane you've become

It's not too late to repent!!!

If I see her doing this again I'm definitely going to start talking about Jesus and Satan as a homosexual couple and other fun theories.

Did she? Was it the sipping for Jordan Peterson or the transmedicalism? Or was there an era before all that where she wasn't controversial for controversy sake?

Thank you for confirming that. I thought I remembered that but wasn't 100% sure and Every. Fucking. Time.

And it's funny because they think they're so legit. 'The tru trans' whatever the [BEEP] that means.

I'm not lying. Sexuality can change. My husband is no longer attracted to men.

Oh so you're both in a weird conversion marriage I see.

My husband would lose his wife. My son would lose his mom. It would be devestating and turn their world upside down. Trust me, I saw what it did to my parents and brother.

Oh I see the husband who 'used to be attracted to men' will lose his wife.

She's a very agreeable person. I hope she doesn't end up resenting her kids later.

Don't forget the other documentary subject, who revealed their conservative father had them Spoiler: raped by a sex worker to "cure" them of their transness, in a documentary intended to encourage conservative parents to keep their kids from becoming trans

🤮

Why do they keep getting these people as representatives? Well I know why it's because the few people who detransistion who don't have something like this going on don't agree with them.

A huge reason why I detransitioned was because I wanted to get married and have my own children.

Also, you certainly won?t agree with this, but if you're Catholic, and you're married, the church teaches that you do need to be open to having kids 😬

Mm OK I'm seeing a lot of cultural justifications. Without acknowleging the problem but I guess that's where we're still at. And I too don't like the idea of being pregnant or the gendered mother role so among other reasons that's why I won't be having kids.

Also:

How are we having this debate still after 45 years? From the New York Times in 1979.

[Nyctophilia]

The thing in this video (yeah I posted this the other day but only watched about 15 minutes of it before) where he brings up how bisexuals are often questioned and people demand to know who they've slept with to validate their sexuality and he says 'especially bisexual women.' Yeah it's so weird too because I wonder how they're defining bisexuality because all the research points to women being bisexually aroused. So why women specifically? Technically most could be bisexual at any point in time based on arousal. Though that doesn't make people want to have sex with people necessarily obviously.

I'm wondering if it's actually an evolved mechanism because women have more fluid sexualities. Like people evolved to push them towards being straight to avoid women drifting away from that basically a form of control/gender policing kind of like how feminine behaviour is policed to a greater degree in men because - people have theorised - it inteferes with male warrior groups. There do seem to be other differences besides arousal though between bisexual and straight women like with certain romantic/sexual preferences and other personality traits and also sociosexual orientation of some subgroups of bisexual women and so on. But from a purely arousal standpoint which to me is what sexuality is really research doesn't show many differences. Bisexual women are more aroused and averse to erotic stimuli it seems than lesbian or straight women and lebsian women have more category specific sexuality than straight and bisexual women.

People assume bisexual men are gay too. People don't tend to be very sexually threatened by women but are threatened by men so that's a big part of it. Regardless of gender too. A lot of straight women also don't find bisexual men attractive according to surveys. Sometimes because they seem feminine and they find that a turn off but also often I think because they're worried about them being gay or leaving them. It is harder for a guy to cheat with a woman since there are way less who are interested in casual sex and women are more selective about casual sex. So I think that's also connected.

There are also at least two groups of bisexual men and I think this is partly where certain steroetypes come from:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...01051113001981

Bisexual-identified men may or may not be sexually aroused to both men and women.

Level of curiosity about sexually diverse acts might distinguish their arousal patterns.

Bisexual-identified men with elevated sexual curiosity showed bisexual arousal.

Those lower in curiosity had responses resembling those of homosexual men.

At least two groups of men identify as bisexual.

Sexual curiosity relates to global curiosity and sexual sensation seeking.

Conflicting evidence exists regarding whether bisexual-identified men are sexually aroused to both men and women. We hypothesized that a distinct characteristic, level of curiosity about sexually diverse acts, distinguishes bisexual-identified men with and without bisexual arousal. Study 1 assessed men's (n = 277) sexual arousal via pupil dilation to male and female sexual stimuli. Bisexual men were, on average, higher in their sexual curiosity than other men. Despite this general difference, only bisexual-identified men with elevated sexual curiosity showed bisexual arousal. Those lower in curiosity had responses resembling those of homosexual men. Study 2 assessed men's (n = 72) sexual arousal via genital responses and replicated findings of Study 1. Study 3 provided information on the validity on our measure of sexual curiosity by relating it to general curiosity and sexual sensation seeking (n = 83). Based on their sexual arousal and personality, at least two groups of men identify as bisexual.

Anyway I think the main reasons people argue this are insecurity/jealousy over potential relationships not working out also promiscuity related fears, gender policing/sexual control (especially when it comes to women,) and the Human tendency to want to force everything into dual categories.

I feel like exposure to research on this topic should help in an academic/factual sense but because a lot of the arguments are coming from an emotional and defensive place I don't know if this is ever going to go away unfortunately.

One thing I still find weird/irritating is the heternormativity of it all. Especially when it comes to sexual stuff I've experimented with guys but it didn't work out well honestly. From a sexual perspective I don't consider myself to be clearly straight anymore than clearly bisexual. That's why I was questioning if I was asexual during my second relationship but it seemed limited and complicated by too many things and greysexual is closer I thought. But you know people are far more interested in insisting someone like me is straight. They don't even think asexuality is real in the first place.

I think I resonate with this a lot (there are also barely any studies on non-binary people so I just have to read general studies on everyone else and think what sounds like me):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25808718/

In the current study, the only observed difference on the negative dimension of the SADI was between bisexuals and heterosexuals for sexual contact with men, suggesting that bisexual women may feel more aversion during sex with men than heterosexual women do. Rather that arguing that bisexuals may be bisexual due to a lack of sexual inhibition, this finding instead raises the possibility that bisexual women define themselves as such because they are more averse to sex with men than heterosexuals are. In sum, male and female bisexuality may be driven by different mechanisms. It is noteworthy that in the current study, bisexual women reported higher sexual arousal and desire but also more aversion. Future studies should further explore which mechanisms may be related to both high positive and high negative sexual arousal.

The findings of this study indicate that a substantial percentage of women defines themselves as mostly heterosexual, bisexual, or as mostly lesbian, and that these women's subjective sexual arousal and desire in partnered sexual activities differ from those of heterosexual and lesbian women, further validating mostly heterosexual and mostly lesbian as distinct sexual orientations (Savin-Williams & Vrangalova, 2012, 2013).

So I feel pretty validated at this point for a wide number of reasons in not calling myself straight which I haven't really done in I don't know possibly ever. Even before I concluded I was non-binary I think I generally went with mostly straight at best.

So I'm like 'well it makes sense scientifically to me and also in other ways' but still I know from a social perspective people will have 'opinions.' Which is annoying. Another annoying thing is I'm non-binary there's no 'mostly straight label' for someone who is non-binary. Bisexual would just be easier. But I hate all the policing and arguments so I've just never definitively adopted that label.

And I do resent this because again. I haven't even had a succesful sexual relationship with a man.

'spicy straight' that term people throw around is kind of funny in a way because of my borderline-asexual ways and just general not dating for over a decade. No actually. Not so spicy. (And of course everyone ignores that you're non-binary)

[Nyctophilia]

Lol I didn't realise she did a live cover of Basket Case that's great:



There was some tribute band in London last year who were playing that song live and then Billie Joe actually stepped on stage because he was in the pub when they were playing which is insane. That would be like 14 year old me's dream scenario:

[Nyctophilia]

Feeling like an imposter in both men's and women's spaces

I'm both, so I feel like I'm both welcome and unwelcome in gendered spaces. It?s so weird. I can honestly say I'm female but it feels like a lie if I don't say I'm also male, and vice versa. However it's not always safe/pleasant/realistic to be openly bigender so I'm stuck always feeling like I?m hiding part of myself and invading spaces where I don't belong.

I feel this way so much. Like because Im both, Im not allowed to actually be either. I get twice the imposter syndrome and so much confusion and it's part of why i've transitioned and detransitioned and retransitioned, etc.

It took a long time for me to accept being bigender because men told me I wasn't manly enough to be a man, and women have excluded me for being too much of a man. ;-; I feel like I can't win because Im too much and too little of everything.

Yeah I'm thinking about this at the moment. Well, to me I don't care too much about being in women's spaces eg: female toilets where I don't have to communicate. Because I look female so I know no one's going to care and it's a toilet. I would worry about going into male toilets because I know I'd stand out. Especially if I have longer hair. I feel like I can look vaguely male in a photo but not in real life. I'm really short etc. Maybe if I had short hair and people weren't paying close attention they might think I'm a teenage boy I dunno. The female toilet has been working so far the rare times I use them, and I'm not exactly going to do a poll lol.

F1nn continues using the male bathrooms even though he mostly passes as female unless he's speaking and I guess sometimes has people react but I don't want to deal with that when I'm just using the toilet really. So if I kept getting into confrontations I'd probably switch but I don't so it works:



The issue is in places which involve communicating or getting to know people. But I guess that's a problem in general. I wouldn't feel comfortable in male spaces because I don't pass and there's the sense that anything that's explicitly male is some kind of... I guess I wouldn't be in those spaces anyway because those spaces aren't just male they're hyper masculine probably? or gay male potentially.

I'm fine in spaces where it's not offically a male space but it's defacto male like I've been in plenty of spaces where everyone or almost everyone is a guy. I also lived with 5 guys once lol. Places that are majority female have sometimes made me more uncomfortable but I think in some cases that was just because the activity itself was uncomfortable? I dunno. PE class in high school. I didn't mind PE in primary school when it was mixed but then it just got weird and I also got more... weird with age. Later this art class that was mostly female also had a kind of uncomfortable atmosphere. I think also because I was bad at A level art lol.

But at this point my worry would be more dating type stuff or LGBT spaces. I don't know, maybe a lot of spaces are mixed as well (for obvious reasons,) but I get the impression that a lot of stuff is organised around being sapphic or being a passing gay guy. So like bisexual women or lesbians and then they seem to include non-binary people most of the time but at times in practice they exclude non-binary people who look very masculine. More masculine than say someone who would be read as an androgynous lesbian or gay guy looks aesthetically. Skinny, no facial hair and so on. Like someone like this would be included:



But someone with a huge build and a beard etc who acts masculine wouldn't. You get the idea.

That's not my personal problem since I don't look very masculine and I can't grow a beard, just an issue lots of people have with these spaces and I think that also defeats the point of non-binary identity. You might as well redefine the space as a space for androgynous and femme looking people.

I think sometimes they even have issues with some butch lesbians if they seem too like men. But it varies and that's probably less common.

Lol I'm thinking about this Jubilee video with Arielle Scarcella in. Obviously she's not typical because she's a conservative and all that but her ruleset is so idiosyncratic. It's like if you don't identify as a woman or even if you identify as non-binary (since she didn't inquire further about the person with green hair's identity, one person said they didn't identify as a woman the other just said non-binary) you're not allowed in feminist or female spaces - even though she keeps using female pronouns for this person which is very ironic. She totally sees them as female but she's really just trying to be petty and make a point but at the same time if you don't pass as a woman you're not allowed. So you both have to pass and identify as female. If everyone adopted that ruleset non-binary people basically wouldn't be able to go anywhere. Because there are no spaces for non-binary people:



I like that though it's like "you're identity as a non-binary person is valid only so I can exclude you from female spaces."

And I said this before in a post I removed but if you make the rule that only people who pass as female can be in the space you won't just exclude trans women - in fact you won't exclude a lot of trans women. You'll end up excluding cis women who don't pass. There are a lot of cis women who pass a men. I think these days a lot of people who used to identify as butch women id as non-binary - even older people who used to id as butch women sometimes id as non-binary. Some people id as both and as lesbians (actually with older people that's common like they're lesbians and non-binary.) Like Eileen Myles who completely passes as a guy at this point even with long hair:





Kind of a sidenote but I only started looking into them and their work yesterday and I think they say some interesting things in the second video (which I haven't finished watching lol but I watched several minutes of it,) about vaginas. To me Anglo culture has a very deep issue with vaginas.

It exists on a personal level like I never liked the idea of being penetrated so I didn't in relationships and so there's this kind of conflict where it's like am I allowed to have that preference or is it wrong and something that should be 'overcome' also I don't have a dick which provides additional limitations. But this issue exists culturally too and even people who are heterosexual men and they don't have a [BEEP] many are uncomfortable with vaginas.

Then another thing you see because we don't have conversations about this. Many have a masculinity complex I notice like Myron from Fresh and Fit:





I also like that he asks her if she eats [BEEP] and she says no and he says 'exacty point proven' I don't know if this means he also thinks dicks are disgusting or that he sucks dicks. Because otherwise you could use the same logic about that.

Andrew Tate "you can give head we can't do that."

Oh you can do that. You physically can. You don't want to.

I think it's OK for them to have that preference to not give oral sex. I don't really like the idea of oral sex in general (with anyone,) myself - giving or receiving but especially giving. I don't know if there are ideal circumstances where I could enjoy that but it's not something I fantasise about. I mostly fantasise about penetrating other people and manual sex (like with hands.) It's not something I dislike in the abstract in fiction and such in fact I've always liked that. Not as much as some things but I like reading and listening to stuff talking about certain acts, but if I'm thinking about my own involvement then it doesn't work.

But the way he constructs his identity and tries to justify his preferences and his sexual conflict is very toxic. Because no matter what it can't be that he's unmasculine, less of a man and so on. So giving head has to become an inherently unmasculine act other wise he's just insecure which is viewed as unmasculine.

It's also very like that one scene from the 2001 film The Believer where Ryan Gosling's character actually brings this up at one point (but somewhat the reverse sexual preference.) Maybe I shouldn't post that actually. I dunno. They're sitting in a cafe and start talking about this. He's kind of described a group of guys who give pleasure but don't feel comfortable penetrating. He considers the latter group to be essentially women. And also argues that they ruin women because after that they don't want to be with other men. He doesn't explicitly say that 'real men don't give head' though it feels like it's implied. They receive pleasure they don't give it because as he says - giving pleasure is a weakness. So really giving pleasure in any way would be considered bad in that sense at least for men.

And it is insane how entire incredibly fucked up ideologies that lead to war can stem from this tiny core like this.

I've seen this with other manosphere guys too like Bronze Age Pervert there's often some underlying sexual difference or discomfort with sex and at this point I don't think it's a coincidence I think it's all kind of connected.

And when I was trying to figure myself out am I asexual etc I noticed there are stone butch women or 'touch me nots' in the lesbian community. This is a pain you know because I'm not a lesbian but you keep encountering stuff in a community you don't belong to. When it comes to straight women there's no discussion of this and if there is you're broken. That's it. You're broken, you must change.



Also something that's interesting is in the lesbian community if you're giving pleasure that's seen as being more dominant and/or masculine but in the straight world if you're recieving pleasure that's seen as more dominant and/or masculine lol. I don't know how these norms evolved but yeah. I think it might be because historically being stone or a 'touch me not' was associated with butch women and you can't get physiological pleasure (at least in a direct sense,) from strap on sex and there were many 'pillow princesses' (usually associated with femme lesbians,) who sometimes didn't want to go near female genitals anyway. So that stereotype evolved.

And I think if you're a straight guy too. You're expected to do certain things or you're insecure and unmasculine. Which for certain kind of guys probably does hurt their ego and make them feel insecure and they respond to that with anger. Because masculine people tend to respond with anger as a response to their feelings being hurt instead of getting sad and crying etc. I mean if they have an emotional reaction it will be anger most of the time.

A lot of these guys frame non reproductive sex as being 'gay' and wrong and unmasculine. They argue if you go down on a woman 'that's gay.' They create this hyper masculine persona that's incredibly fake and defensive because they're very emotional people and they're not hiding this either it comes out:



But yeah there's not much conversation about preferences in the 'straight community' as it were. Everything is sort of expected and prescribed. If you're a female top no you're not that doesn't exist. You're not allowed to not want to go down on people and so on. Everything is very rigid. There's a bit more discussion in [BEEP] communities but it's still not perfect. And I think in very recent years like as in the last... Since 2015 lets say there has started to be discussion among straight people. Like conversations about strap on sex among straight people have become very slightly more common.

Also people will say the word dick without even thinking about it really. Technically it's a slur but it's barely one. But if you say [BEEP] in the US at least (not as much in the UK and definitely not as much in Australia,) it's a huge deal. So there's lots of ways anglo cultures - to diffrent degrees depending on the country - are uncomfortable with vaginas. As Camilla Paglia said:

Still, the [BEEP] hats: She buried her face in her hands as she discussed them. "I was horrified, horrified by the pink [BEEP] hats," she said; the pink [BEEP] hats were "a major embarrassment to contemporary feminism."

"I want dignity and authority for women," she said. "My code is Amazonism. I want weapons."

I think most weapons are phallic symbolically. People are more comfortable with that symbolism you see it everywhere. I think swords and stuff are cool aesthetically myself:



That doesn't address the problem though.

She was in her own words 'horrified.' And she's spoken about dicks before:

Women who can't deal with men, who can't deal with the penis, are just immature, they're adolescent. I'm tired of it. I'm trying to bring a whole new kind of sexual sophistication to feminism, to allow even women who are openly lesbian, as I am with my lover, to say that we regard the penis as hot. It's natural for any woman, lesbian or not, to regard the penis as hot; your body naturally responds to that.

The penis is perfect because it makes people very uncomfortable. Deal with the penis. If you can't deal with it, you are not pro-sex.

Yeah but you're uncomfortable with pussies.

So yeah anyway they don't always pass as female:



When young they passed as female in photos more (all of this is also somewhat subjective too people will sometimes disagree about people etc):



A lot of people who are very masculine (to the extent that some older lesbians are,) and young now will just come out as trans guys instead of lesbians or non-binary because these boundaries have shifted. Not all of them though, and clearly there's going to be some confusion here. Like someone talks about the difficulty in this video:



"You know there's a lot of complaints among a lot of butches that butches are dying off. That we're an endangered species. It's a very hard identity to protect in the culture because I think that the culture by affirming trans - which is a great thing - I also think what's happened is the binary's been reaffirmed."

"Here's the thing. I don't want to be a man. There's some kind of shedding of cultural prescriptions about what it means to occupy your sex. For me it's just about being at a core self."

"I identify as a they lesbian, and a butch and a d*ke. I think I'm trans. We're in such a moment now where transness is so much more in the fore and yet I think butch was the first way to identify as one who grew up thinking perhaps that you were a boy rather than a girl."

So ironically. Arielle's position makes it more difficult for people like this to exist.

And yeah some get chucked out of and harassed in bathrooms.



And we've now reached the point where people are harassing people who tbh don't pass as men. Maybe they look slightly tomboyish. They don't pass behaviourally, physiologically like the woman in this video:



Young Avril with shorter hair just getting chucked out of toilets now lol. Because some people are crazy. Well they do think she was replaced with a clone actually. There was the guy in Ireland who beat up an elderly woman and then said he did it because he thought she was trans. And people do look and sound more androgynous with age so you're going to have a really bad time if you're that much of an insane bigot.

And I kind of understand this rhetoric from straight people because for a lot of them the most masculine woman on the planet to them is Kristen fucking Stewart and they're having a meltdown about her every 5 minutes. But there are way more masculine people out there and you will end up excluding them from lesbian spaces. Which is so ironic because these spaces started out as mostly butch and femme in the first place before the 70s. Arielle is a lesbian though and before she switched to making cringe content about witches, otherkin and non-binary people who are overweight and/or have dyed hair, she made videos about LGBT+ topics for years so she knows this.

But yeah at some point the lesbian community in general I think adopted this set of rules where like lesbians are 'non-men loving non-men.' I'm not a lesbian so I'm not going to argue with that definition I know a lot of women have an issue with that definition for obvious reasons. Because of this though they'll date non-binary people if they don't identify as men and even if they don't identify as women. So basically agender people.

This isn't really how I view my gender identity. I'm bigender so I would be excluded from lesbian spaces/websites I assume? That's technically fine because I'm not a lesbian but because there are no bisexual spaces as far as I know. It's like. There's no where I can go theoretically. And I assume this would be an issue on dating sites too if I used them. I also don't really hear about non-binary spaces much.

I'm probably overthinking this I would hope a lot of spaces are mixed gender anyway. But I wouldn't feel comfortable in gay male spaces because I feel like the emphasis is so much on either cis male masculinity or a kind of femininity that doesn't fit me either. I don't know though. In sapphic spaces it's like I have to not identify as a guy. But even this seems kind of all over the place because some spaces seem to include trans men (which is a point of mass debate constantly online it seems,) and so I'm less male identified than a binary trans man - and less masculine looking generally too. Or not maybe:



I don't know anymore. Seems like a lot aren't on testosterone in some environments (68% weren't on testosterone in her sample.)

This is all on top of the sexuality issue anyway where I've only dated guys a long time ago.

Just need 'nerd spaces' lol. Even then would probably be uncomfortable because there's the sense where I don't fit in anywhere perfectly most of the time. Or eventually will come to realise that if I don't immediately. In practice I just end up hanging out with and talking to straight guys when I bother(ed) to have a social life but sometimes the gender breakdown would be like 80% male 20% female.

If it's more female it's sometimes been uncomfortable (it was fine in actual childhood, and I mostly hung out with girls especially in school, but after about age 11.) I did have a close female friend in high school though. And we'd sometimes hang out with other straight guys and this one gay guy outside of school. Everyone else was male again though. It was the same ratio somehow often. In school though we'd hang out with other girls. Part of the reason this was uncomfortable was firstly it was school, and also my bully was in this social circle. And my friend also had this other female friend who was jealous sometimes. I was less comfortable with her so wasn't talking to her at one point as much while we were both at my friends house (at this point she's also moved away but we were visiting her for the weekend,) and my other friend who was her best friend wasn't giving her enough attention either so the other girl got upset. This is all irrelevant and happened years ago though. Also teenagers are kind of just dumb anyway.

Online it's not that different I end up mostly talking to guys or trans people but not really cis women.

So Humans. They exist. Maybe. (Outside of my family and friend I talk to online and people I briefly interact with in art galleries about books/paintings and shops.) How do you even?

The last time I talked to strangers I was in an art gallery a couple of months ago and there were two interactions one far more comfortable than the other. So this woman was taking me to this painting and started talking about the painting and my anxiety got really bad. Then later I bought a book in the gallery and this guy was talking to me about the book and how he wanted to buy it and I felt more comfortable. Not entirely comfortable but more comfortable. Maybe it's because there was a desk in the way, maybe it's because he was working in the gift shop and seemed less upper middle class school teacher vibes? Maybe it's because he was a guy and not a woman, maybe it's because there was an obvious exit to the conversation because I was buying something and it wasn't indefinite. I don't know. I think the last one is important though.

Even with concerts it's weird. I like gothy aesthetics and such but I felt quite uncomfortable when I went to the IAMX concert at the end of last year. Maybe that was partly my mood at the time though too. Also the endless waiting - they take forever to get on stage. I was dressed pretty casually then though and felt like I actually stood out a bit for that reason lol. I had like a red hoody on and jeans. But there were other people who stood out too. Behind me while waiting for the band to get on stage I heard someone point out that there were a lot of people there that they wouldn't have expected to be IAMX fans.

Then I compared that to the Porcupine Tree concert I went to a few months before that. There were some younger people there too but also lots of older guys and I guess I just felt kind of invisbile there which is nice. I'm not though, I was the only person who looekd like me there. But somehow I felt invisble and didn't care quite as much. It was still somewhat anxiety inducing especially to start with while queing in that background social anxiety way that's almost always been there my entire life. But, then I had this social interaction when buying a t-shirt that felt like it went well (I don't know why, and why the [BEEP] does it matter? I'm just buying a fucking t-shirt lol. How can interaction feel like it went well when you're not even talking and it's just like scripted. That's how broken my brain is lol.)

But so I feel like it was more comfortable compared to the other concert. And I think what it is is there's this kind of background aura where I feel judged more by the people at the IAMX concert (which is ironic, because I think the fanbase and IAMX are trying to create the opposite dynamic where you're not judged, they also have a fanbase that has a lot of mentally ill people and a lot of LGBT+ people) and this might just be in my head and also might also be because of some negative stuff I read before even going to the concert about Chris and some stuff that happened at another concert.

Someone posted online about a concert they went to in the US where their autistic boyfriend was basically having a meltdown in the crowd and then he kind of highlighted this person because it was obvious apparently to other people as well (someone responded to say they were near them and noticed in the crowd,) they had their hands over their ears and weren't OK and so he said 'why are they even there? and that it was disquieting' and then he started crying and he asked them to leave. And then this person (who was the partner of the trans guy,) also corrected Chris on their boyfriend's pronouns because Chris used the wrong ones.

So Chris was like 'he, she, they whatever.' Which I think is how Chris feels about pronouns for himself he doesn't care what ones people use for him. He's spoken about that I think in Q&A stuff online when asked about it. But it's hard to get from that description how he said it like if it was dismissive or whatever. But I kind of expect this kind of sentiment from most people - like most people are annoyed if you're trans or non-binary it's this undercurrent that's always going to be there with most people. They find your existence tedious. Which again does not help socialising lol!

But the misgendering thing didn't bother them as much as everything else that happened. Like to me the really disheartning thing about this is they advertise themselves as being supportive to people who are mentally ill etc. And they actually have mental health groups after some concerts which I've not been to because I don't think they even had any for previous London concerts. I know at one concert someone actually did some messed up self harm thing at a concert - this was many years ago. Chris talked about it in an interview.

Chris apparently suggested at one point that he was autistic too. So maybe he just isn't great socially himself, and I get that impression listening to him in interviews etc. He always has Janine with him and she's a lot more socially skilled. And someone else also at that concert was talking about it and apparently he'd been having technical issues all night so I think he was in a bad mood anyway.

OK so I'm remembering a bit wrong the partner of this autistic trans guy was posting in the thread as well but the OP of the thread was actually that patner's dad. So they were complaining and apparently some photographer had emailed his son (they id as non-binary but I think are OK with the term son etc,) and this photographer wasn't at the show they went to and was rebuking him for describing this situation online lol and for disrupting the show. Even though it was Chris who decided to call them out about it. And again they advertise themselves as being supportive of mentally ill people.

I didn't get the impression they were being really disruptive either he wasn't yelling or hitting people and so on. The other person who described the situation said he had his head down and hands over his ears. So their impression was that Chris was trying to make sure he was OK. But was kind of dick about it, and doing that in a really [BEEP] way basically. And obviously he apparently asked them to leave after he started crying.

It's funny though because statistically speaking the environment full of older guys has to be people who are on average less tolerant. It's not something they're familiar with due to age and mostly being straight. And guys are less agreeable in general. As a general trend right not saying all the time. I'm sure most have never met a non-binary person, and think that's insane, and if you go back so many years no one was even getting diagnosed with autism or mental health conditions most of the time. But since it's not going to come up and hasn't it's actually been more comfortable.

Lol until something terrible happens. I'm trying not to think in black/white ways though. Statistically speaking things like this are going to happen sometimes with so many people.

Actually coincidentally the person who posted about that whose boyfriend they were talking about - they're actually also fans of Porcupine Tree. I've seen them post in a bunch of places with the same username etc.

Anyway I don't have a lot of conscious thoughts in the moment because the emotional reactions just overpower them so I'm trying to break it down.

But really I just feel that basically any social environment I could enter now will be overwhelming with a series of rules that aren't even clear.

edit: Lol I just found this thread from 2 days ago:

There is no bisexual community.

Hey as the post says, I feel as if there is no real bisexual community. I (30m) live in NYC and have been out for a number of years now and when I moved to NYC I kinda expected there to be an integration amongst the entire alphabet soup but really there's not. As I go out there's basically these pockets: The Gays, Queers (mostly trans and nonbinary folks), and Lesbians. There are no bisexual/pansexual spaces and I feel as if I have to always either be gay at [BEEP] spaces or be "straight" when I?m with my hetero friends.

I always feel like the only bisexual man in most spaces and always feel like I need to "come out" because people assume one way or the other and not that I?m bi.

Am I alone in this?

No! I'm not even trying irl but even online it's hard to find things with the exception of like certain news articles or maybe subreddits. On YouTube especially I never get suggested videos by non-binary or bisexual/pansexual people - but especially bisexual/pansexual people. Since I mostly consume YouTube this is a problem for me. It's always lesbian women, gay men, trans women and less often trans men (edit: the trans people are usually monosexual or don't talk about being bisexual much, there's two exceptions off the top of my head who I've linked in this post.) There's nothing wrong with that but where is everything else? Why don't I get suggested content about bisexual people? Rarely does it happen.

Even if someone is non-binary they are usually a lesbian as well and they have that kind of 'cultural background.' I'm aware of a few non-binary channels from over the years but usually they make other content or are very small channels or have since come out as trans men. I feel like very few of them are relatable to me as well in some kind of cultural or age sense (but even then we're talking about barely anyone in the first place.) Only recent exception I guess is F1nn who recently came out both as bisexual and genderfluid. I think that's the only new channel I've come across in probably years now lol. I'm sure they're all on tiktok right but I don't use that website or want to really. The format isn't really what I'm looking for the clips are so short. It's very different.

Edit: Another thing which I think creates the [BEEP] + non-binary + trans bubble is LGB people can be transphobic sometimes (like with straight cisgender people,) so trans people sometimes feel safer in their own spaces and also being trans has a bunch of unique issues obviously. Then with non-binary people both binary trans people and LGB people can have issues. Even the subreddit I just found lol for bisexual adults has comments in one thread that are criticising non-binary people. A lot of those comments got removed by the mods but someone was like:

Hey, welcome to r/bisexual if you'd like kinder and more supportive advice! 💜

This sub lacks basic 🌈 knowledge, manners and empathy.

I've got a NB kid and man it's real, and comes w a lot of pain due to people's ignorance. Being bi can also be very painful. Would they be able to see a 🌈 aware therapist? This pain shouldn't be on you, or on them w/out support.

And I was wary after stumbling on this post whether that would be a thing there because these more niche smaller subs that attract an older audience can be less tolerant. Which sucks because I am older but in my age range (30s,) there's far less understanding or people who are out.

There's also some weird ongoing debate about whether bisexuality includes attraction to non-binary people. A lot of bisexual people think it should, but some are very against the idea to the point of well this screenshot I just found:



Then there's a kind of split between bisexual and pansexual when it comes to this and it's all very tedious really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiuHsugRgNQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2Xtp3pHjWw

Some people think bisexual and pansexual are synonyms but I've often seen a definition for pansexual which is essentially being attracted to people regardless of gender. Like gender isn't relevant to attraction. Kat Blaque - who is straight also went into the differences for her dating men as a trans woman from what I remember her saying - generally bisexuals aren't necessarily going to be into her categorically like there are bisexual people who are not attracted to any trans people but she assumes pansexual guys will be (so it's kind of like an emphasis I suppose):



There is a bisexual culture too sort of but it gets absorbed into lesbian culture mostly. Same with non-binary culture it gets absorbed into lesbian culture to some extent, and bisexual culture also gets absorbed into non-binary and trans culture and of course the label [BEEP] has become popular as an umbrella term so there's that as well. And then bisexual men are just almost invisible anyway. There are a few famous ones in the music industry like Billie Joe from Green Day. I feel like it was a lot more visible with the emo kind of thing in the 2000s - even though not everyone associated with that was bisexual. But then it kind of disappeared again. And obviously she made a video about that:



This kind of goes back to David Bowie too although he kind of flipflopped on calling himself bisexual. And it was definitely very seperate during the Gia Carangi kind of era because it's highlighted here:

In her adolescent years, Carangi found the attention she sought from other teenage girls, befriending them by sending flowers.[3] While attending Abraham Lincoln High School, Carangi bonded with "the Bowie kids", a group of obsessive David Bowie fans who emulated Bowie's "defiantly weird, high-glam" style.[3] Carangi was drawn to Bowie for his fashion preferences and his ambiguous gender play and outspoken bisexuality.[3] One of Carangi's friends later spoke of her "tomboy persona", describing her relaxed openness about her sexuality as reminiscent of the character Cay in the 1985 film Desert Hearts.[3] Carangi and her "bi-try Bowie-mad" friends hung out in Philadelphia's gay clubs and bars. Though she's associated with the lesbian community, she did not want to take up "the accepted lesbian style."[3]

But overall I guess bisexual culture is less developed because it's newer. As this comment says:

Not trying to minimize the issue, but I wouldnt get too hung up on this. The gay and lesbian communities, especially in places like NYC, have had decades to establish themselves, whereas the bisexual movement has, to my perception, only really picked up steam in the last 10-20 years or so. We'll get there, it's just gonna take time and effort to carve out spaces of our own.

There are lots of bi communities, they just aren't explicitly labeled bi. The bisexual male community hangs out in polyamory, kink, and some nerd spaces.

Yeah I think so like emo and goth subcultures tend to have more bisexual men floating around I think. That's the stereotype anyway. But these cultures are sort of dead nowadays in most places. I didn't personally meet any bisexual men in nerd spaces either. A bunch of people who came out as trans women then or later, one non-binary person. Mostly straight men a few gay guys one bisexual woman. I met some other bisexual women too at uni but not from a nerdy/geeky background. When I say that I mean like one of the bisexual women was studying a video game related subject and she was into anime and doing cosplay and going to cons and stuff like that.

At one point as I've said a guy on my course was questioning why 'all the women on this course are lesbians' and tagged me and none of them were as far as I knew. There were a couple of women I never talked to so maybe they were but there weren't many women in the first place and most of them were straight or not open about it anyway online and they dated guys and he knew that he had most of them added on facebook as well. He also tagged me and one other person specifically and I'd had relationships that I'd spoken about on facebook with guys. I'm not a lesbian and there was one bisexual woman who was engaged to a man and very open about that on her facebook. So he was literally just basing this off of ??? vibes or people not being open to date him I guess. I was a bit more feminine presenting then too but never did wear makeup. I used to dye my hair unnatural colours but this was before that became an LGBT+ stereotype. I actually think the stereotype is older because it gets brought up in Stone Butch Blues, but straight people didn't know about it then and neither did I lol. It was just considered an alternative subculture thing. And my hair was always long as well.

But as for guys I've never met a bisexual guy irl afaik. Off the top of my head.

If you go far back enough it was just merged into gay and lesbian cultures and people would go between the straight and gay worlds. And sometimes even mix genders like Rachilde was bisexual - but she always denied being a lesbian sometimes very strongly - and she mostly hung out with gay men and she had a complicated relationship with gender where I think she sometimes described herself as a gay man but then othertimes as a woman. She had lesbian contacts and friends but I think didn't really want to be centrally part of that culture I think because of her complicated relationship with gender again and also attraction to men.

Obviously none of the current labels existed then though. And there's a tradition of like certain bisexual women hanging out with gay men as well even now. I've noticed anecdotally. And then you obviously get the bisexual women who get absorbed into the lesbian culture historically there was no differentiation there really until there was.

And then you get people like Byron and Shakespeare but a lot of these cases are kind of vague and obviously nobody used the term bisexual back then anyway. And these aren't necessarily good role models either lol. Byron especially was a bit infamous. Or like Mary Read and Anne Bonny these women are pirates. It's fun and edgy when they're fictional. But these are straight up pirates. Violent career criminals lol. but yeah.

And there are a bunch of other famous women who had relationships with men and women. I think also because being gay was either illegal or frowned upon until very recently (and it still isn't seen as OK by everyone even now but comparatively,) people like to argue that nobody was bisexual because you don't know who was just gay or lesbian and going along with a relationship to not draw attention to themselves. It's the same with women who lived as men you don't know 100% in every case why they did that.

Evidently Rush are a 'bisexual band' I didn't decide that someone online did and this is kind of an old thread too from the early 2010s:

Is Rush a gay band?

Bunch of queers at the show

No, they are bi.

Lots of lesbians

Did he do a poll do you think? I don't know.

I still love this comment like:

Not gay, def bi though like stated.

Not gay bisexual though for sure. Like they don't explain why but it's just definitely the case.

I think I saw some images on Tumblr of Rush with bisexual stage lighting so. Clearly they're onto something. I don't think you can call bands bisexual though. And I don't think any members of Rush are/were or haven't openly said they are so.

And then nobody can sit on chairs correctly:



And I do actually fit that stereotype lol. And that's basically the culture. Destroying furniture - one chair at a time. No I really have destroyed 3 chairs by accident somehow.

This is a thing? O.o Because I'm just thinking of the weird way L sits in Death Note, I think I remember that being a thing. :p

LOL yes. he was the og:



So you also have on twitter people arguing in favour of labels like bi-lesbian. You also have 'mostly straight.' people. Mostly straight isn't straight though and 'mostly lesbian' isn't lesbian and we're at the point where I'm frequently encountering these as seperate categories in research. So even researchers are pointing this out now lol.

Kristen Stewart recently called herself a lesbian in an interview and then when the director of the film said she's bisexual she remembered she's bisexual lol and said oh yeah I am too I go both ways. OK so people were uploading this on twitter



It's not in this clip it's from this interview though or the same day where they're wearing these outfits. There's all these clips on various different channels with them wearing the same outfit and talking to different people and I can't find the same one from twitter. Anyway she said that.

The comments on twitter were all like 'Kristen Stewart bi-lesbian confirmed' lol. There's lots of discourse about that.

In the past she's also defined herself as bisexual. She has had several relationships with men. I feel like because she's so big in the lesbian community and she mostly has relationships with women now, and most of her relationships with men or teen boys happened when she was a teenager and in her early 20s - there's a kind of sense where it's like 'this makes more practical sense now'

And a lot of people don't really want to be bisexual because there's a lot of stigma associated with that and a lot of policing of the label at the same time. And of all labels really in the LGBT+ community. So people tend to avoid it. People also often use sapphic now instead of bisexual so that also merges female bisexual and lesbian women and some non-binary people.

[Nyctophilia]

I found myself in the position where I was defending myself against 'the fujoshi allegations' why? Why did I feel the need to? And also what is wrong with fujoshis? And after much research, data gathering, and philosophical pondering I have come to the conclusion for this video that the vilification of the fujoshi is a hate band wagon at best, and misogynistic, racist and transphobic at worse.

Cool video. Which I've not finished watching so it might actually not be cool. But I liked the intro and the fact they're talking about this.

This might not apply to every subgroup of afab people who are into m/m stuff but in my investigations (and I don't know if she brings this up in the video,) people who read slash fanfiction on ao3 are more likely to be non-binary and bisexual. So that's not quite the same as BL but it's a very similar demographic I think. I don't say this based on anecdote - I found on a bunch of websites and blogs links to a few surveys that have been done on ao3.

In most cases, non-binary people were more likely than those who identified as men or women to be fans of M/M.

Heterosexual male respondents were hugely less likely to read or write slash than any other group, although this may be down to small sample size for that demographic. The largest group for both readers and creators of M/M was bi/pansexual women,followed by heterosexual women and women on the asexual spectrum.

https://centrumlumina.tumblr.com/pos...ale-slash-fans

However, among the 10,005 respondents to the AO3 census survey, the proportion of M/M fans who consider themselves both heterosexual and female is between 25% and 36% (depending on how precisely the terms are defined). Respondents in that demographic were less likely than average to be fans of M/M. Of course, this data has its limitations, but these results are supported by many past surveys.

So I find the insistence that this group are all women and all straight very annoying. People will just ignore this to make a point about 'straight women fetishising men.' I think so they're 'safe' because they're not part of the LGBT+ community. But it's not true in the majority of cases.

And even sometimes people who are trans eg: Contrapoints who is a trans woman will lean into this idea like in one of her patreon videos where she was discussing the book girls who like boys who like boys. She did at least mention that there were a significant number of lesbian identified women who read this stuff in the West. But bisexuality and non-binary identity was completely absent really. Even though she had a section called the genderfluid gaze. Who did you get the gaze from lol? We don't know. But she likes it. And she talks about that in the video. Which was why I paid for her patreon to see that video lol. Because I saw her mention that on twitter. Somehow in spite of that it was kind of removed and all about straight and lesbian women and straight men and gay men. And this is the kind of [BEEP] lol. It's not exclusive to her obviously but it was frustrating.

Edit: It creates this insecurity. Especially if you're not acting on your sexuality irl for any reason. So you feel the need to constantly broadcast your sexuality to justify it to others. And I'm doing it in this post. Which no one is reading lol. This is basically a diary. I've always talked about men more though and I am attracted to men more romantically. Also I feel like there's a sense where it's OK to 'objectify' men slightly more culturally speaking. I've spoken about that before.

You're in this weird situation where people are like 'don't objectify women.' But also 'you're a fake bisexual because you're not talking about women in a sexual context.'

What the [BEEP] is that?

You have to do it in just the right not male gaze way. Hmm.

It's also very ironic because at multiple points in my life irl people have insisted that I'm attracted to women or even a lesbian when I'm not. In fact my straight female bully sexually harassed me at one point to 'prove' this. I can safely say I was not attracted to her at all ever.

If you want to say I'm fetishising people though that's fine I mean I'm clearly kind of a nightmare. I fetishise everyone though. Just wait I'm coming for you too. No I don't at this point think I'll ever 'be coming' for very masculine people with short hair and huge builds. I'm sure they're crying about that lol. They're safe.

Also bisexual women are usually reported to be more attracted to men than heterosexual women are. So I don't actually find it surprising that most of the slash fanfiction is written by bisexual/pansexual women. They're more into both in most studies. At least sexually. And probably more likely to be seeking out certain content and creating it. So there you go.

As a teenager I read way more slash fanfiction but never called myself a fujoshi it was very much considered an insult though I know some people even then used it as a self identifier.

Another reason I didn't is the term seemed more associated with Yaoi/BL and Asian works specifically and although I read and watched a few things and some fanfiction based on Asian video games and anime/manga that wasn't really the majority of what I read. I was mostly reading original m/m fiction that was uploaded free on websites like adultfanfiction.net (it's ironic because it's a fanfiction site but I only really read original fiction on that website lol,) some site called nifty gay archive from time to time which I think is less associated with women and more an actual gay male site - that's how I discovered certain fetishes that aren't for me but were interesting like microphilia and macrophilia. There was this story I read with this tiny guy lol. And just Western fanfics on fanfiction.net.

I also started out reading bandfics in my early-mid teens before trying to stop doing that for ethical reasons lol (but as I've said before I fucked up on a few seperate occasions later and ended up reading fanfics about real people... I try not to though.) I occasionally read straight works too during this time and books and stuff but it was mostly m/m stuff during that period. My sexual fantasies were also mostly like that. But I would also write stuff that was androgynous/intersex.

To be clear I'm part of the same broader demographic though or was moreso when I was younger so not distancing myself from that. I just get irritated by how the image is purely just Asian stuff. I live in a Western country man. I've never just consumed East Asian stuff to the exclusion of everything else.

Then in my late teens/early 20s I switched to consuming a lot more straight stuff in a kind of 50/50 balance I guess when it came to written porn not romance. And reading a lot more straight romance instead of slash romance in fanfiction. Now the ratio with romance has kind of flipped from my teen years where it's like 80% straight 20% gay male lets say with romance.

And with audio stuff I listen to women occasionally too. I've realised I don't have a gender preference with voices. It's just whatever my mood is + specific people have hot voices but not gendered. I also look up images of women sometimes but lately not really looking up random images as much that happens now and then. Otherwise I look at images of specific people who are usually guys or genderswapped images of guys I find attractive.

If I'm doing 'things' though often I'll consume a bunch of different stuff anyway. The stuff I go back to the most atm are actually this one woman's audios where they're kinks I have but she's talking to a guy that's the set up she's talking to the listener but I don't self insert as the guy/listner. I imagine I'm kind of a third person I guess and enjoy the kink aspect but then I also like her voice and like her sapphic audios and I've listened to a bunch of those. But with the stuff that's for submissive guys. They involve themes of them changing gender or sexuality and having sex with guys but then she does some of the voices of the submissive guys with her female voice too like she tells the guy what to say and does an impression, and I go back to those parts a lot too. So it's like lol. There's a lot of different stuff happening gender and sexuality wise.

I listen to a lot of stuff recorded by submissive guys but the ones with that specific woman are probably my favourites so for the past several months I always listen to them at some point, because of the fetish themes even though I'm not the target audience lol. And then, there's another audio by another woman I like that I rediscovered and first found many years ago and that one is very weird in terms of gendered stuff happening. I'm not going to go into all the details. It's almost unique in terms of stuff happening in it lol. That I've come across anyway.

When it comes to sexual stuff I don't read fanfiction for that. I have very specific tastes and kinks too a lot of fanfiction doesn't include themes I'm into and also the way most fanfiction is written is different to straight up written porn and it it doesn't really work for that purpose ime.

It's kind of a weird thing where in childhood all of my romantic and sexual memories involved women or girls - some of them were quite fetishistic though. But then like in my teen years that kind of flipped. But I would still do things like mess around with female Sims and download very sexualised outfits for them. But it was always direct I guess the attraction/arousal I had. Watching music videos and such. I didn't ship female characters in shows together or try and read fanfiction about them during that period of my life like I would with male characters. I also think I'm less romantically interested in women so that's a big part of why I didn't do that. Like it was more sexual. I did randomly became obsessed with this older girl in school but I still don't know what the [BEEP] that was. I didn't have sexual thoughts about any of my real life crushes during my teen years anyway so.

Audio stuff has been interesting because there are more romantic elements sometimes with stuff with women. I think that helped me to integrate things more than with the written porn I read which was more fetish-like.

With fanfiction I really struggle to find femslash stuff I like. I don't know why but almost always when I look up a ship that seems interesting to me while watching a TV show or something it just doesn't exist. So apparently I have very idiosyncratic tastes. Or if it does exist there's less barely anything written about it. But this all happened and I wrote about it lol while this forum was down at some point (yeah I guess I'll just quote everything even the parts that are irrelevant. And I'm not editing this I guess. So just whatever cringe I was writing when I was writing this: )

Lol I just searched something about Jenna Ortega and one of the suggested google results was this:

Is Jenna Ortega married to Gwendoline Christie?

What!?

Why is that something a lot of people are searching lol.

Contrary to the gossip circulating in fan circles, Jenna Ortega and Gwendoline Christie are not united in matrimony nor involved romantically. This misconception gained traction when Jenna Ortega casually referred to Gwendoline Christie as her 'spouse' in public commentary.

Oh OK lol.



Oh yeah I see why they're doing this because Cate Blanchett Galadriel vibes.

People always use this music for these videos. It's the same music here:



With the captions and emoji. Yeah I know but it was a recent example I found.

I love how that's the only video on that YouTube channel lol.



They always do the same kind of editing thing like either the emojis and text and like that clip of the rainbow glitch TV thing pops up a lot too. But they didn't use the same music here lol so:

I'm living for these videos lmaoo this is like the only Steven Wilson fan-service on YouTube

There's a bit more on tumblr.

Oh wait Jenna Ortega and Gwendoline Christie worked together on the show Wednesday I actually forgot about that lol so it seemed even more random to me.

Christina Ricci's character on that show has Pamela Isley vibes lol.



I still want a non cheesy live action Poison Ivy film Hollywood

*coughs loudly*

*starts creating Christmas list of wanted TV shows*

I like the dynamic between Wednesday and Enid on that show but they're like high school students so I want someone to create something similar with adults where they're in a romantic relationship or there's at least lots of subtext and screen time.

Romantic relationship would probably be better because under normal circumstances it wouldn't matter and fanfiction/fan art would take over but this is sapphic so can't rely on that based on every pairing I've ever looked up ever on ao3.
April and Ann from parks and rec are similar but not quite that. Like a character that's really positive and girly with a cynical goth character.

I guess they don't have to be both be female but have to have a sort of '[BEEP] vibe' at least and long hair.

I've also been thinking this for a while because of some post on gatekeeping yuri lol.

I also would like a TV show with a woman who looks kind of like [lets be vague for a change] with very long hair and she sometimes wears glasses and she's like really traditional and basically [that person] but then she's actually a lesbian and has to come to terms with that and gets seduced by some woman and she's all like ohh noo. *Existential crisis*

I also would still like some kind of TV show about an androgynous guy with long hair and glasses who looks like this (let's not be vague because too hot):



Any TV show would do but specifically also one where they're some kind of secret 'crossdresser' and a university lecturer and he's like ohh noo *existential crisis* One of their students finds out and seduces th- no wait this is just porn.

OK let's go back. Stupid sex drive.

So they're a librarian and then someone comes in to take out a book just before they close and then- nope just porn again.

So they're my girlfriend.

*insert plot here*

They should be a librarian though.

I really need a show with a kind of nerdy skinny guy with long hair and glasses and he's also a woman.

I want some more shows about aliens who are disgusing themselves as Humans on Earth and they're hot.

You understand.

Thank you universe in advance.

I never got around to watching Doom Patrol I remember watching the trailer for the first season years ago and thought it seemed interesting and liked Negative Man but I thought I saw Michelle Gomez in this video I just found and I was right. She pops up all over the place lol.

I mean I wasn't watching it full screen. I was trying to find out who the character with the glasses was (not Michelle Gomez's character they were only on screen for a moment and I still don't have an answer lol.)



Madame Rouge. Is she just always playing a character called madam something haha?

Also she looks a bit like a fictional character I created in this image. Also looks even more like Olivia Octavius.



I find her attractive sometimes like while watching Sabrina and in this gif:



Please yell at me I guess.





Oh.

*ends up watching clip with Rita Farr and Madame Rouge*

So there has to be fanfiction of this pairing right?

"15 fanfics."

Yeah that tracks.

There are officially more Jesus/Satan fanfics then this. On the other hand I was always surprised by how few there were. Like probably 30 or something when I first looked back in 2017 or whenever it was and most of them written by the same two authors.

I was sure this time had to be different though.

What are you guys all writing?

Well Star Trek fanfiction I guess.

On Instagram, several fans of the Doom Patrol TV series have proposed that there should be a romance between Madame Rouge and Rita Farr,

???

This is useless let me know when people are writing fanfiction.

Romantic relationship would probably be better because under normal circumstances it wouldn't matter and fanfiction/fan art would take over but this is sapphic so can't rely on that based on every pairing I've ever looked up ever on ao3.

Lol even when one of the cast members involved knows and brings it up it doesn't influence anything:

"I know that there's a lot of online stuff about Darcy and Loki, that's been brought to my attention, which is so great," said Dennings. "So I'll hope for that."

"I think it would be exciting for a few people on Tumblr. Do it for the Tumblr"

Which OK fair enough but still.

I love Kat Dennings lol:



That is Kat Dennings old YouTube channel btw lol.

But there are thousands? of Loki/Darcy fanfics. It's actually not anywhere near the most popular ship in that fandom though lol.

My sex drive was pretty high that day I'm not in this mood now so it's a bit weird lol.

I still want Michelle Gomez to yell at me. I actually don't she just looks hot in that gif. It's inexplicable.

The Kat Dennings cheese dancing trampoline video is giving Sheogorath so have to stan:





Lol I just watched that Jenna Ortega and Gwendoline Christie video the whole way through because I didn't watch all of it before and Luis Guzman's expressions when she's flirting with Gwendoline are so funny. Maybe it's just the editing though.



Yeah I think it's mostly the editing in the other video that makes it funnier.

Did you know when Gwendoline got the roll for the principal she was very happy because she got to wear makeup? In the past she always played male roles because of her height and facial structure.

That's cuteee

That is cute.

As a straight girl who is quite sometimes assumed to be a lesbian this really bothers me. Joking with or complementing female friends does NOT make you gay. Only Jenna can know if she actually feels attracted to women and only she can decide if she wants to share how she feels, whatever way that may be.

THIS!! For the longest time I was only friends with guys because social outcasts and such. So I never had many female friends and I never learned what's a standard girl friend is, how to compliment girls, or friends, for that matter, unless it's guys. I'm a tomboy more than anything so that doesn't help having people shove sexuality stuff down my throat. I just wish I could call girls pretty, because some women very much are, and not have them think I'm attracted to them in that way.

I'm genuinely confused by fake flirting. It makes it very confusing to know when people are actually into you or not. I wouldn't assume that if someone just said 'you're pretty' or something like that. But if they were doing it constantly, and holding my hand etc like she's doing in the video and stuff like that I think it could get confusing.

I've seen many girls in real life comment flirty stuff on each other's instagram posts, so to me this doesn't really prove she's gay (girls usually call each other "cute," "wife," etc)

Yes it happens all the time but it makes things very confusing.

"I just want to call my friends wife and make out with them at parties and maybe have sex with them sometimes and why are they questioning my sexuality gosh."

Reminds me of when 2 straight girls I knew said decently loudly in a hallway (in front of one of their boyfriends mind you) that they should eat each other out and that it would be really hot and I've since lost most if not all my respect for those two

That was a joke reddit.

I can't really flirt anyway though.

I'm trying to figure out if there are cultural differences or it's just that I'm weird and prob have undiagnosed autism:

My one experience with British vs American flirting tells me that the Brits are way more direct and what Americans consider being friendly the Brits considering serious flirting.

The rest of the story-while in London waiting at the train station for my wife, a 30 something British woman was standing close to me. I made some random comment about the weather, typical American friendliness. We chatted for a minute or so in what I would consider normal friendly American banter and as I was ending the conversation about to walk off she said "are you up to bonk?" It was so unexpected, I just nervously stammered something and walked off.

If only it had been that easy with American girls 30 years ago!

Yeah I don't think that's normal here. It would make sense if she was drunk but then he probably would have noticed that. I've seen/been part of some weird drunk conversations.

Lol this thread I found is funny. Well the comments are the OP was deleted:

Is it generally not normal for British men to compliment their partners much?

ugh as one of those habitually positive Americans, it's not that i am not being genuine. any and every compliment is absolutely true. it's just that i tend to underweight or ignore or avoid bringing up any negatives because why upset someone unnecessarily? it's different for things like feedback sessions at work or something, of course.

so then i end up with only positive things to say and I'm sure non-Americans are confused as hell.

edit: another way to put it is that i seem to have this innate desire to make other people feel positively. im a woman, and I also don't know if it's partially ingrained societal expectations (at least in the US)

You sound really great! As an Englishman who hates the competition of "who can be the grumpiest about pretty much nothing" that happens in every local pub (but particularly in the North), I much prefer the American approach of positivity.

English men over a certain age have a weird thing of trying to never seem enthused about anything. They could meet a childhood friend they hadn't seen in twenty years and all you'd get is a head nod and "alright." Then a complaint about the local council.

Americans HUG and SMILE, and that's GOOD FOR YOU.

HAHA i went to uni (as you'd call it) with a brit with whom i got to be pretty good friends. he moved back to the uk after, but we've stayed in touch over the past decade. just did a video call to catch up with him the other day after not speaking for about a year beyond the odd texts here and there and i was so excited to see him! and i said as much with this massive smile on my face. dude barely nodded and said "yes it's been a while, how have you been?" with this poker face. took me a second to remember he was just being british.

it also made me realize how much my expectations have been warped as a result of being around almost exclusively americans during this pandemic (my work is quite international so normally i travel abroad at least once every other month if not more but that hasn't happened since 2020).

Sheesh... typical American.

If you don't have something negative to say, why say anything at all?

lol.

This is what makes Americans special though tbf, we are far more cynical and miserable and it's not necessarily better.

Yeah my favourite teacher in school was also probably the happiest person I've ever met and American.

Most British people just aren't that comfortable using big, superlative positive language, especially when we actually feel strongly about something. It's easy to say that a bag of chips or something is 'absolutely amazing', but when it comes to really meaningful stuff - like how great our significant other looks, or something - many of us default to understatement.

Some people are talking about grumpy old bastards who only complain and are never happy with anything, but I think that's another phenomenon entirely and distracts from the main point, which is that for many Brits, even when they genuinely love something, their mode of expression is muted. They're still expressing themselves when they say something that might sound very 'blah' to American sensibilities, you just have to learn to translate it from 'British understatement' to a language you can understand. And/or talk to them about it so they can also work on expressing themselves better to you.

I think it depends on class and whether you're English a lot as well. Also where in England you live. As a bunch of the comments suggested Scottish people give more compliments. I feel uncomfortable telling close family members I love them and stuff like that and also don't give compliments very often irl. But I also think I have schizoid traits. I sometimes communicate differently online.

[Nyctophilia]

Ugh the whatever podcast.

But this debate about age gaps in adult relationships is so tedious.

Yes most men are most attracted to women in the 18-22 year old aged range (and younger actually,) sort of pointless to deny that but people do. No it doesn't make you a pedophile (but some of the teenage girls many men are attracted to are illegal and women are always going to side eye you for that.)

You are likely contributing to this statistic though:

63% of men in their 20s are single compared to 34% of women

Although some of that is the increasing number of [BEEP] women who won't tolerate the bs they're seeing on social media (women are more sexually fluid.)

The video lol: "Men don't shame women for your preferences"

Yeah men online spend a lot of time shaming women, women spend a lot of time shaming women too. Men don't shame men as much (although they will if they're gender non-conforming,) so that's the difference lol.

Reading random comments online.

As a woman who doesn't complain about men who enjoy doing stereotypical male activities or who like offering help to women out of genuine kindness/desire (because why the hell would or should I not appreciate help/kindness???) I am both scared of the future of chronically underappreciated/unsatisfied men for all of our sakes and appalled/disappointed by the present women out there who are so self-absorbed, obsessed with proving their ability to be independent/feminist and so sadly lacking in any self-awareness or understanding/empathy for others that they drive me/the rest of us insane!

the women who promote this logic are always surrounded by the biggest yes-men around. None of which can fight, which makes me question why that mode of masculinity is so heavily promoted by these types outside of ego boosts

All the women complaining about "toxic masculinity" just wait to see if a whole generation grows up unappreciated, not valued, and purposeless. Those will be dangerous people.

I'm just not very scared of men. It might be genetic. My mum once attacked a random flasher.

I don't see most of them as being a threat so I don't have to validate behaviour that doesn't interest me personally. It's fine if they want to be masculine but I'm not a cheerleader for behaviour that doesn't interest me.

I mean it's ironic because I have social anxiety lol but I think most men are a bigger threat to themselves. Which isn't good but one way or another I'm not going to do anything that's not instinctive.

I think that's kind of insulting too isn't it? You validate them because you're scared? Not because you actually like it?

LET HIM COOK!!!

Well he can cook if he wants because I hate that.

My wife lets me do all of the man things, she also likes letting me cook because I'm more experienced with it.

Hmm lol.

True story - my gf saw me watching your videos and immediately assumed the worst so I had her watch with me (Are Women ok), figured she'd find you humorous too. Nope she hated it, in fact, she said she didn't want me to watch your videos anymore.

Broke up with her last week.

I find her somewhat entertaining though I don't follow or agree with many of her cultural views, but I would assume the vast majority of women are uninterested in her content or actively hostile especially if younger and she mentioned her viewing statistics before which were an absurd ratio like 90% male or something.

I just wanna use a drill! I don't care about feminism I just love drills. I love making it go brrr brrr when I pick it up. Love stud finding with a little magnet. It?s great.

Is someone stopping you from drilling things? I don't get it.

Why are these guys like this? If you just wanted to drill stuff there's plenty of stuff you could do but it sounds like a lot of guys just want validation.

I've never felt so minimized yet validated at the same time. ️<3 Good stuff

Let's not pretend you wouldn't let her step on you if she could!

seems like you don't listen to her words. Instead of submitting to us like we need you women to do. You all still want to step on us, and you still want to be above us. Stop trying to be the man. Accept your place as a woman. It's not a bad thing.

Lol.

That's hilarious.

Guy here, i like futanari

I don't see how that's related lol but sounds good.

Yes. Give us the jar. This is max stat accuracy. Women don't make men feel like men anymore.

I think it's a turn off. Reminds me of this discussion I saw earlier on reddit too:

Here in the states lots of American girls LOVE British guys, and just wondering if the feeling is similar in the UK. And because I'm a narcissistic American

Personally I think American guys wouldn't be able to 'handle' a British girl.

I'm a northern girl and let's just say we're not exactly ladies lol that along with the dry humour doesn't seem to fit with Americans. The guys there seem so easily offended and it looks like you're always wanting validation especially for your 'man card'. It's off putting.

especially for your 'man card'

That's a new one to me... what do you mean by that?

Can't attack their masculinity.

Most guys in the UK are thick skinned and don't care about how manly they look if they're having fun. In the US guys seem way too insecure about it and I think I'd end up offending them.

Oh you mean like wearing a pink tutu on a night out sort of thing?

Yeah I guess. Even just little digs at them I'd be worried about offending them.

For example I call my bf princess a lot and joke about buying him tampons. He will shoot back with something and we laugh it off.

Except I don't think this is just an American thing.

"Me and my boyfriend were doing .." not
"My bf was doing and I was there"

Deluded and crazy from step 1. Is this how she behaves when you're at the gloryhole together?

Well that... Escalated quickly.

Dude all the relationships I've been happiest in wer with horrible women who used me for house projects.

Why describe them as horrible then? It sounds like the relationship was irrelevant. Maybe consider a job where you get paid to do something like that instead of seeking validation from horrible women.

i think the lady is cuter for trying and failing miserably. butt whatever.

I was wondering if someone was going to say this lol.

I try so hard to like shoe on head. But she takes non serious, meme ish content on social media and makes broad generalizations of gender that ultimately support misogynistic systems in the name of "defending men".

It's difficult because she makes content to appeal to men and the stuff she says is important for a lot of men, but most women just can't be cheerleaders.

I know you're all 'independent' and shit, but do you have THE COURAGE to depend on someone?! I swear people don't trust anyone with anything anymore. 'We don't have a deep connection' YA THINK SHERLOCK!!?!

i dont know why some women dont get that. I mean i know i can do most shit. But why should i want to if some nice helpful man will do it faster, easier (bcs strong) sometimes better and with much more pleasure. Why would i torture myself and break nails if all it takes is a beer a god meal and a..nice dessert?

It don't think it's always a trust thing some people feel incompetent and useless if someone else does things for them. I understand the mentality well. When I'm reminded of things I can't do, I'll end up feeling bad about it. Probably wouldn't make for a healthy dynamic in a romantic relationship.

I guess the trust thing plays into avoidant attatchment styles as well though maybe. Either way avoidants tend to pride themselves on self sufficiency and hate asking for help because it makes them feel weak. Especially dismissive avoidants eg:

Man, my ex just could NOT do this, even though we'd talked about it. One day, she asked me to unpack her cooler while she went upstairs and changed, and her asking for help just about bowled me over.

Unfortunately, I only need one hand to count how many times it happened.

Lol:

PSA: Accepting help makes others feel good

Hello Avoidants,

I just wanted to remind you all that often times, accepting/asking for help from others makes that other person feel good, not burdened. When you/others assist one another, you are putting down a building block towards a bond.

So try asking for help today from someone :)

A lot of people also put this down to ideology with women which I think is a mistake.

"coddle me" no actually i dont want my gf to act like some weak defenseless moron out of pity

That's not what she said.

If you can open a jar as she said, but ask your boyfriend to do it for you anyway like a child, unless that is attractive to you for some reason - and I think it is to some women - it would basically be out of pity.

Conversely, what do "women in captivity" need?

Well I just started putting Sims on desert islands in The Sims 3 and then they'd fish for food and grow food etc. What I really want is a game that combines the best part of survival games with life simulation games. Life sim games aren't simmy enough and The Sims doesn't really have the capacity for survival stuff at least without mods and even then the hunting mods for The Sims 3 could be better. I downloaded a mod that allows you to make candles too for later. I haven't really thought through the limitations of the challenge though. Like am I going to gradually build stuff maybe. But it's hard with the limited gameplay + mod options. There is one that lets you cut down trees for wood.

Other than that I downloaded a cool desert world recently because I like those. I made a Sim who is employed in the fortune teller career but I gave them the lucky trait and they did the lottery and got rich too quickly. I probably should have avoided that because it's more fun when it's hard. There was a mobile home kind of area so I set up the fortune teller thing near there (because there wasn't a rabbit hole in the world already.) And I moved the Sim in there. I like mobile homes and tiny houses a lot too.

There's also a diner nearby so maybe I'll make a new save and get someone a job there too. The issue generally is that aquiring wealth in that game is a bit too easy. I should probably look into modding it to be more difficult at some point or something. Need the game to be riskier in general. Maybe some illness stuff.

I also downloaded a tiny arid apocalypse kind of Fallout inspired world with no roads. I have a Sim who I'm going to make an inventor. There was a bunker in the world that looked cool from the outside but unfortunately everything underground was super white and minimalistic futuristic style instead of grungy like above ground which would have worked better. I don't really like decorating stuff in The Sims much so cba changing it so probably just won't play on that lot.

Something like that but with better attention to detail could be awesome. The best world I've found for The Sims 3 is boroughsburg based on New York. It has a lot of custom content (mods,) but it's amazing. Feels like GTA or something. There's even train sounds in this one apartment next to the train tracks. I made a private detective Sim. They adopted a cool looking alien bird called spotted sixam. Well perhaps it's not an alien bird but Sixam is an alien planet in The Sims universe.

There's a bit of a pattern presently.

So I spend my time doing that (also playing Runescape,) when I'm not editing videos and ranting about stuff.

Oh in reality? No lol. Reality is a mostly boring place filled with uncomfortable gender roles and scary people. Well one of my favourite 'adult entertainers' just uploaded a submissive audio. He's been mostly uploading dominant stuff recently woo. omg it has strap on stuff in too. <3

So in other words never mind lol.

[Nyctophilia]

Lol someone responded to some comment I posted ages ago.

The idea that anyone thinks Andrew Tate has sex appeal blows my mind. He's incredibly unattractive imo. I don't think he has sex appeal for most women either seems to be mostly good at tricking men into thinking he's more popular than he is.

I don't think it's about looks, maybe ppl are attracted to his confidence and charisma in a world full of emasculated simps. I'm not one of them btw, I dislike Tate and can't see the appeal, I'm just trying to make sense of it lol.

Lol I wasn't just talking about looks either. Everything about him seems unappealing to me. He's like the antithesis of attractive to me.

He's uncreative, obsessed with masculinity, misogynistic, the opposite of long hair, the opposite of slim, insanely jacked, cult of gym, paranoid, arrogant, excessively materialistic, abusive to women, psychopathic, former pimp, hypocrite, sexually neurotic, unappealing extrinsic religious orientation, has adopted the insecure defensive form of masculinity that's common in certain groups.

He isn't confident.

This video:





It's possible to be somewhat attractive in spite of some of these traits like the guy from twitter I found who is a materialistic narcissist who's creative, writes science fiction, appreciates art, and obsessed with femininity. But there's nothing attractive to me about any of his traits. Not only is he sexually boring but also just a terrible Human that makes you lose faith in Humanity.

About the only thing going for him is he's reasonably intelligent I think? And for other people who care about this he's athletic but his build is unattractive to most women. Other than that he's rich so I guess some people just want money. And he's not this guy. Maybe. Probably is off camera:



But realistically I do know some women are attracted to these things. It still blows my mind.

Some psychopathic women and then they complain about how they're all fucking them over, lying, trying to destroy them lol.

But you know I'm barely attracted to men so whatever. It wasn't going to make sense.

Edit: Wow lol. I'm starting to think he's in a competition to make himself as unattractive as possible to me in the shortest possible timespan:

Imagine being a full grown man and being excited by cooking.

Not war.

Not conquest.

No. You get adrenaline from making an omelette.

Fucking nerd.

Chefs are worms.

OMG WHAT IF THE MEATS OVER DONE OMG 😮

Who cares.

Hardly getting knocked out is it.

They're trying to enslave humanity.

If you're a full grown man and enjoying:

Concerts
Sports obsessions
Getting drunk
Chasing Instagram whores
Etc

Instead of PREPARING FOR WAR AND RESISTING THE MATRIX.

You, and your bloodline will get the eternal slavery you sorely deserve.

Concerts are the best.

LGBTQ activists are paedophiles.

All of them.

Its clear to see they're demons.

If the government wasnt inept and actually cared about children, theyd investigate every single one of these "activists" and I guarantee a 99% conviction rate.

I mean this is insanity lol.

As I said it's mindblowing that anyone is theoretically attracted to him.

That's 50% of women in the UK lol:

Ranking girls 1-10 is subjective and difficult depending which autist is critiquing her, but heres the real scale.

Past 30 doesn't count they should have a child and be out of the game.

Any woman whos past 30 without kids made a mistake and is usually bitter and negative as a person.

Girls aged 18 - 29 can be ranked simply.

If youre a below a 6 you are paying half on a date.

If youre a 6 or a 7 you get free meals, free drinks, maybe a birthday present. You pay half the rent with your loser boyfriend and work a job. You are on dating apps.

If youre an 8/9 your entire life is free. You dont have dating apps you only meet men on Instagram. You live rent free in your mans house, the car you drive is from him, your spending money is from him. You do precisely zero work. Your job is to be fun and vibes and hot. Thats it.

10s is the same as an 8/9 but with a celebrity.

Thats the scale.

So girls, look at your life.

Thats how hot you are without the filters and bullshit.

"Not only do they lie and pretend I'm an enemy of females." - Andrew Tate.

LOL.

"What will happen if I turn 90+% of people against me?"

Well he wanted war right lol. It's not the war he wanted but it's the war he'll get.

I also don't think attracting women with money is impressive because they're not even attracted to you. They just want to get money out of you. So you're not attractive. In spite of everything these guys say rich women can date men who are like 40+ years younger than them too.

"Look at me I'm proof that men are more attractive with age. I have all this money I throw around and women with model looks date me for a few months before breaking up with me for some rando guy they post selfies with on instagram for an entire year." Lol

Now try it without the money and status.



It's also an insult to cults too honestly:







These songs are all about the same cult lol.

I think this is as well:



Cults are alternative power structures that appeal mostly to women because women have a harder time getting power in the current power structure. You exist within the mainstream power structure and replicate the current power structure.



I'm not saying this is good I'm just saying he's an incredibly poor parody of Satan.

His fans are all male. The ratio should be flipped like at least 70% female

Unless you're a straight woman or gay man.

eg:



She's bisexual though and increasingly terrible at appealing to women, so it's not perfect imo but you can go either way I guess. Although I'm not sure that you should in terms of expression. Otherwise you might imprison everyone who ever called you retarded and gay online haha.

"Ironically becoming the face of the red pill movement. Ironically using that influence to run for president. Ironically becoming dictator. Ironically imprisoning everyone who has ever called me gay or retarded online."

She's not idiosyncratic enough though much in the same way as Andrew. There's a real lack of creative and alternative spiritualities in these spheres. It all ends up reafirming the same order money + Abrahamic religion with edgy veneer.

can somebody explain why this is happening

Feminine people regardless of gender and sexuality like pop music. The alpha guys seem to dislike sex in general though and might be asexual. That's the impression I get from this:



"In and of itself sex is boring any man who sits and says that sex is great and sex is fun just clearly hasn't had enough sex because sex is boring, sex is a chore. Sex is like food. You don't really care unless you're really hungry and then you eat and then you don't care again." - Andrew Tate.

This is basically word for word the kind of thing I see asexuals with a sex drive post online.

"Female vaginas are disgusting." - Myron

I like how he says female vaginas. Myron is a chaser confirmed.

Tate has a sex drive but is apathetic and probably doesn't find people sexually attractive. I've never heard any of these guys express any actual attraction to women. They seem to like men as people more and dislike women as people but I doubt they're attracted to men either. Everything is a performance or based on their own masculinity. 'How does having sex with this person reflect on my own masculinity? Do I come out looking submissive/dominant, masculine/feminine.' I think this plays into most people's sexuality to some degree but not as much. I'm not convinced they're really attracted to people.

They don't have the vocabulary and hate labels so instead have to... Do what they're doing now.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36028632/

Femme/Butch/Androgyne Identity and Preferences for Femininity Across Face, Voice, and Personality Traits in Chinese Lesbian and Bisexual Women

Studies indicate that individuals preferring masculinity/femininity in one domain also prefer it in other domains. Heterosexual men and women and gay men have reported consistent preferences for masculinity/femininity across the faces and voices of their preferred sex. This study explored the femininity preferences of 417 Chinese lesbian and bisexual women in terms of face, voice pitch, vocal tract length, and personality traits and explored the effect of sexual self-labels (femme, butch, and androgyne) on these preferences. We found that lesbian and bisexual women showed a stronger preference for feminized faces, voice pitch, vocal tract length, and personality traits than masculinized versions, and these preferences were highly consistent across the four domains. Moreover, femininity preference was moderated by sexual self-labels, with butches preferring more feminine voice pitch, vocal tract length, and personality traits than femmes and androgynes. However, no significant difference was found for facial femininity preferences among different sexual self-labels. These findings present evidence of consistent femininity preference across visual, auditory, and personality traits and suggest that, regardless of sexual orientation, multiple cues may be used together when determining the attractiveness of individuals. Furthermore, these results support the hypothesis that the partner preference of lesbian and bisexual women mirrors that of heterosexual men.

I think this does actually track for me lmao:



Can just take a guy and feminise his face and it's like finding a new attractive person. Hair length helps too though. This doesn't always work either. Probably have to be attracted to them somewhat-moderately before hand or was at some point.

Sometimes the original is more attractive and sometimes the modified version. But I think it's mostly appealing because it's new and the way the filter works. No one really likes the masculine filter even trans guys using faceapp didn't like it.

[Nyctophilia]

True story - my gf saw me watching your videos and immediately assumed the worst so I had her watch with me (Are Women ok), figured she'd find you humorous too. Nope she hated it, in fact, she said she didn't want me to watch your videos anymore.

Broke up with her last week.

This is a rookie mistake btw. If he wanted to get his girlfriend to like Shoe he should have shown her:

"Egirl" Vs "Alpha Male"

I linked that in my previous post. This still won't work 90% of the time.

Are women OK is a video for men though:



With minimal exceptions from what I remember she is not identifying with women in the video so it won't appeal to them.

Actually the woman at 1:12 in that video actually looks great. Like great dress, great hair, great earrings. Their life may be [BEEP] but they're pulling off that look.

Also on that video for some reason there's a YouTube message thing:

Context: conversion therapy

Conversion therapy refers to a range of dangerous and discredited practices aimed at changing one's sexual orientation or gender identity or expression.

Did that come up in the video lol? I can't remember now.

She says 7.3% of her audience is female which is an insane ratio for a channel:



This video also will only appeal to a minority of women. Mostly conservative women, who aren't online.

I mean really the issue there is that shoe is from a liberal cultural background who has over time adopted conservative cultural traits but all the liberal parts are still kind of there which will put off the conservative women but at the same time her politics don't really align with the liberal female bubble who react like this:



So essentially she can't really attract a female audience. I also imagine women are put off by the male audience.

This comment lol:

The fact that showing the slightest bit of empathy is met with overwhelming hate is so depressing.
Edit: This comment has started a gender war. ️🤦

It's hard to get data on what percentage of people are non-binary but approximately 0.6% of the UK is (based on census data.) So it's more weird that her audience is 1.2% 'user specified.'

What men want:

When we guys are looking to get married, we want someone who understands the concepts of family, be less self centred. That's where girls from Latin & Asian countries shine. Not only girls there are extremely adorable but they are so humble and caring too. They match all the criteria for a perfect wife and mother to future children. Also, they have great amount of respect for their partner, they basically worship their husband.

Also the growing divorce rate is making life miserable for guys that's they reason most guys avoid getting married or go for prenup. Latina and Asian women are good here too, because of their family values they try to fight and work on relationship rather than just giving up like others.

What women want:





Oh wait no that's what men want again I got distracted.

You know what men want? Marissa Tomei. I have yet to meet a guy that didn't think she was undeniably attractive.

I would have chosen Marisa Tomei over Helen Hunt every single time

She's so my type.... She's singularly beautiful and I absolutely love her hair as well

When I was watching this as a kid, I'm like this chick is batshit crazy. Now as an adult, I'm literally her.

Honestly can't remember what I thought now the actress is hot though. I think she should have hooked up with Judy Greer's character

Lol there's 9 fanfics for What Women Want on AO3 (and that's it lol,) 2 are mostly unrelated crossover fics, 7 are femslash, mostly with Erin and none of them are with MARISA'S CHARACTER. Mostly Helen Hunt's character and original female characters (created by the fanfic author in other words.)

I was so close.

Calm down.

Non-binary people want Lola/Erin fanfiction. Also Isha/Slaanesh fanfiction.

After watching that fujoshi video yesterday I also realised that Wednesday Addams and Enid are one of the most popular ships on AO3 because the list of most popular ships came up in the video, but I can't be the person that reads fanfiction about teen girls lol. Can't do it. I know the actors are older but still. I wanted something with a similar dynamic with older characters though while watching the show.

I don't find Mel Gibson attractive and he kind of creeps me out rewatching now.

She was hot in Spiderman too.



"The world's wide open Kelly what do you want to do?"

"Do what?"



Also coincidentally Heather looks a bit like Marisa Tomei lol.

These videos are so 2000s lol. Also I feel like Kelly's friend Heather is a reference to the film Heathers.

"Fuck you with something hard and sandpapery." Sounds like a famous line from the film.

[Nyctophilia]

I've seen some of your content through Nux and just wanted to say I really appreciate a lot of your takes. Idk how serious you are about the pedos running the gov't take, but you?re spot on regarding the hypocrisy and brain rot of these hyper-woke political takes. I think you and Destiny address this [BEEP] really well and both of you genuinely perform a civil service through your interaction in the contemporary political/social discourse.

I've reached a point of relative ambivalence (about the chaos that is,) because very little of these discussions feel like they apply to me and I don't feel like anyone really addresses the issues I personally have due to the binary way everyone views gender and sexuality.

And yet I'm probably not that rare to the extent that this video is accurate:



The closest anyone's come to doing anything useful is Aella asking people about their political opinions during a sexual survey a couple of years ago, jreg making a video about it a couple of years ago.

That one brief moment Jordan Peterson suggested that maybe women's preference for feminine men is fuelling the political crisis somewhat.



But it's not the pill.

Other useful stuff abortion views seem to be influenced by how masculine or feminine people report being with very masculine men and very feminine women being significantly more likely to be anti-abortion:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/20...-about-gender/

The problem with an analysis of abortion views based on sex is that it's conflating two concepts: sex and gender. There aren't many social scientists who are going to argue that someone's reproductive organs make them hold certain social or political views; rather, it?s the way that those organs shape the way that they're raised, the roles they adopt in society, and the corresponding differences in the way that they?re treated and how they view their own role in society. Put another way, social and political views aren't driven by sex so much as gender: a distinction that often gets overlooked because social scientists and pollsters generally don't ask about gender (and are often squeamish about asking questions about sex, relying instead on telephone interviewers' judgment about a respondent's voice).

When we break down abortion views by the gender identities that people express, we get a very different story. While there are several ways to measure gender identity, a simple question asking people to place themselves on a scale running between "completely masculine" and "completely feminine" works well for most populations (more complex scales can be used when dealing with populations who are expected to have more diversity in their gender identities). When asked this question, about half of Americans express a gender identity that's "completely" corresponds to societal expectations about their sex: "completely feminine" women and "completely masculine" men. Most of the remainder express a gender identity that's mostly in line with it, and less than 10 percent express a gender identity that's seen as corresponding to the opposite sex (with women being more likely to say that they?re masculine than men saying that they're feminine).

Forty-five percent of "completely feminine" women say that abortion should be illegal in most or all cases, compared with just 26 percent of other women. Similarly, 49 percent of "completely masculine" men say that abortion should be mostly or always illegal, compared with 31 percent of other men. Put another way, "completely feminine" women have much more in common with "completely masculine" than they do with other women. Just so, men who don't assert a "completely masculine" gender identity have abortion attitudes much closer to women who don't say that they're "completely feminine" than they do with other men.

Feminist activists (not all feminist women,) are more likely to be masculinised according to this study:

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals...014.01011/full

The feminist movement purports to improve conditions for women, and yet only a minority of women in modern societies self-identify as feminists. This is known as the feminist paradox. It has been suggested that feminists exhibit both physiological and psychological characteristics associated with heightened masculinization, which may predispose women for heightened competitiveness, sex-atypical behaviors, and belief in the interchangeability of sex roles. If feminist activists, i.e., those that manufacture the public image of feminism, are indeed masculinized relative to women in general, this might explain why the views and preferences of these two groups are at variance with each other.

In conclusion, the feminists-as-masculinized-females theory and these supportive results yield insight into the potential biological origins of feminist beliefs and value systems. These empirical data indicate that Wilson (2010) may have been right to ascribe feministic characteristics to his sample of less feminine females, if the present results generalize to some extent from feminists activists to self-identified feminists and maybe also to women?s support for feminist views. These are important issues for future research based on this theoretical perspective. In any case, our findings shed new light on the feminist paradox and on studies such as that of Scharff (2012) exploring the reasons why women by-and-large eschew feminist ideology.

The present study tested whether feminist activists are more physiologically and psychologically masculinized than are women in general. Feminist activists were operationally defined as attendees at a feminist conference, and indices of sex-dimorphism were 2D:4D ratio and Directiveness. Consistent with our specific hypotheses, feminist activists exhibited a significantly more masculinized 2D:4D ratio relative to both Swedish and aggregate comparison groups, a substantially higher level of Directiveness than both the male and female Australian samples, and within-sample correlations between these variables.

This examines the link between masculinity sexism and support for populist right wing movements. I'd have to read through this properly but seems useful:

Masculinity, sexism and populist radical right support

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...3.1038659/full

Furthermore, while masculinity matters when explaining support for PRR parties--at least among men--femininity does not have an impact (see also Coffe, 2019 on the Dutch Party for Freedom). This could be due to the fact that PRR parties demonstrate masculine traits, and thus, men voters who possess those masculine traits are more likely to vote for them. PRR parties' relationship to femininity is less clear (Mayer, 2013; Meret, 2015; Spierings and Zaslove, 2015), meaning that feminine traits do not factor into voters' decisions as to whether or not to support PRR parties. It is possible, then, that more left leaning parties will have stronger feminine traits (or be perceived as such by voters; Winter, 2010) and will therefore be more likely to attract voters--possibly women voters--who themselves possess feminine traits (McDermott, 2016). This opens an interesting avenue for further research, examining the effect of masculinity and femininity--in interaction with gender--on support for parties of different ideological orientations.

It's not clear to me if they examined if populist right wing groups appeal to masculine women. I would doubt so, because of the sexism. They don't appeal to feminine women either. The study authors theorise that left leaning parties have stronger feminine traits but that's clearly complicated by the association with women with some masculine traits. I think it would probably be more accurate to describe 'the left' as androgynous.

While both women and men can score high on masculinity, biological sex and masculinity characteristics are intrinsically related. As a result of gender socialization forces, men generally score higher on masculinity than women (Coff?, 2019; Alexander et al., 2021b). Some literature has suggested that it is particularly masculine men who support the PRR, assuming a reinforcing effect between masculinity and being a man. The concept of "hypermasculine men" refers to men who are not just masculine and not just male (Mosher and Tomkins, 1988, p. 64). Hypermasculine men exhibit an exaggerated form of masculinity, engage in stereotypical masculine behavior, and see themselves as possessing a high level of stereotypical masculine characteristics (Gidengil and Stolle, 2021, p. 1819). They also typically fear the feminization of society and are most likely to be susceptible to masculine threats. Studying the Dutch Freedom Party, Coffe (2019) did not find a stronger effect of masculinity among men compared with women. By contrast, Gidengil and Stolle (2021) confirmed a tendency of hypermasculine men to be especially attracted to Trump.

While femininity has been found to have little effect on the likelihood to support PRR parties, masculinity is associated with higher support for these parties (e.g., Coff?, 2019; Gidengil and Stolle, 2021). Those scoring high on masculinity tend to be more likely to support PRR parties compared with those scoring low on masculinity. Smirnova (2018, p. 11) even conjectured that "associating with and voting for Trump thus becomes coded as an act of masculinity?not voting for him reflects one's lack of masculinity or brotherhood". The link between masculinity and PRR voting has been attributed to the masculine character and discourse of PRR parties and their leaders. Carian and Sobotka (2018), highlight how Trump embodied an exaggerated form of masculinity that appeals to hypermasculine white men. Similarly, Daddow and Hertner's (2021) framework of toxic masculinity in political parties reveals that the policy positions, discourses and practices of UKIP and the AfD are toxically masculine, perhaps even specifically geared to be attractive to masculine voters. Furthermore, and particularly relevant for our study, Cabezas (2022) has shown VOX's use of masculinist frames, frames based on masculine threat and frames that construct feminism as the nation's enemy and harmful to men through a comprehensive analysis of VOX's communication strategies in electoral campaigns in Spain.

It's kind of funny because in a literal sense Trump isn't really hypermasculine imo. Tbh neither are any of his followers. According to my own definitions at least lol. You can also see these people:



You have to transcend this debate entirely to be hypermasculine like some kind of stoic that lives in the woods alone, entirely self sufficient. But this is the labelling we're going with now lol and I understand what they mean.

Furthermore, and particularly relevant for our study, Cabezas (2022) has shown VOX's use of masculinist frames, frames based on masculine threat and frames that construct feminism as the nation's enemy and harmful to men through a comprehensive analysis of VOX's communication strategies in electoral campaigns in Spain.

I think any masculine outgroups are seen as threatning to the populist right so that would include feminism, islam - mostly those atm. Technically black guys are treated as a threat too and maybe the group BLM is considered the group that represents that in America. But they're getting less attention atm. Perhaps less organisation I dunno - I mean I wouldn't consider BLM to represent black men specifically either. I'm not sure they're leading it where as Islam is very much being led by Islamic men.

All black people are considered a threat to some extent though by this group of men. Sexually, nationally within the US. In the UK they're a very small group that is broken up more by nationality and while we've adopted some US politics the focus here is still mostly again on Muslim men and LGBT+ people and to a lesser extent feminism. LGBT+ is another group that overlaps with feminism (well there's strong overlap but I would consider myself LGBT+ technically but not a feminist despite an overlap in viewpoints.) Again though core feminist and LGBT+ groups are technically androgynous and the masculine groups are mostly working class men who are low status and territorial. Sensitive to threats.

You see this in a very literal sense btw:



Not every masculine guy is part of the populist right either though.

And this is vaguely useful. Maybe:



But 'lesbian' isn't useful. Gender non-conforming is.

And everything moves at such a glacial pace. We're going to be stuck here for a long time. Mostly because everyone insists on yelling about women and men like those are two useful categories in this debate. Not really honestly.

Some of the people responding angrily have trans flags in their bios, some of them look androgynous, some of them seem feminine and have probably just had bad experiences with men and been exposed to all the bs men are posting online. I would be interested in knowing what percentage of people who are pissed off cannot be helped with:

"Just go back to the 1950s man. Live a traditional life."

If it sounded appealing do you not think everyone would be a conservative? It's not appealing. To a lot of people.

Under no circumstances are either Destiny or Shoe really addressing 'woke' people. They aren't watching her videos, women aren't watching her videos, when they are watching they're hate watching. But they don't have to watch to do that they can look at thumbnails, get mad and post on twitter like in that video of people on tiktok and twitter reacting to her. Half of them were mad purely on seeing her style of makeup. Which tbh is pretty funny.

Really in terms of new viewers she's just reaching some conservative and right wing men who post things like 'Even though you're a liberal, I don't mind your content.'

Unfortunately this is no enligtened act in my opinion. She's not actually your outgroup. This is now outdated - among other things the gendered political divide has taken over a lot more and 'grey tribe' are all over the place politically mostly depending on gender and if they're LGBT+ or not. But still somewhat useful:

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/3...-the-outgroup/

Let's start by asking what exactly an outgroup is.

There?s a very boring sense in which, assuming the Emperor?s straight, gays are part of his "outgroup" ie a group that he is not a member of. But if the Emperor has curly hair, are straight-haired people part of his outgroup? If the Emperor?s name starts with the letter "A", are people whose names start with the letter "B" part of his outgroup?

Nah. I would differentiate between multiple different meanings of outgroup, where one is "a group you are not a part of" and the other is - something stronger.

I want to avoid a very easy trap, which is saying that outgroups are about how different you are, or how hostile you are. I don?t think that's quite right.

Compare the Nazis to the German Jews and to the Japanese. The Nazis were very similar to the German Jews: they looked the same, spoke the same language, came from a similar culture. The Nazis were totally different from the Japanese: different race, different language, vast cultural gap. But the Nazis and Japanese mostly got along pretty well. Heck, the Nazis were actually moderately positively disposed to the Chinese, even when they were technically at war. Meanwhile, the conflict between the Nazis and the German Jews - some of whom didn't even realize they were anything other than German until they checked their grandparents' birth certificate - is the stuff of history and nightmares. Any theory of outgroupishness that naively assumes the Nazis? natural outgroup is Japanese or Chinese people will be totally inadequate.

And this isn't a weird exception. Freud spoke of the narcissism of small differences, saying that "it is precisely communities with adjoining territories, and related to each other in other ways as well, who are engaged in constant feuds and ridiculing each other". Nazis and German Jews. Northern Irish Protestants and Northern Irish Catholics. Hutus and Tutsis. South African whites and South African blacks. Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs. Anyone in the former Yugoslavia and anyone else in the former Yugoslavia.

So what makes an outgroup? Proximity plus small differences. If you want to know who someone in former Yugoslavia hates, don?t look at the Indonesians or the Zulus or the Tibetans or anyone else distant and exotic. Find the Yugoslavian ethnicity that lives closely intermingled with them and is most conspicuously similar to them, and chances are you?ll find the one who they have eight hundred years of seething hatred toward.

There are certain theories of dark matter where it barely interacts with the regular world at all, such that we could have a dark matter planet exactly co-incident with Earth and never know. Maybe dark matter people are walking all around us and through us, maybe my house is in the Times Square of a great dark matter city, maybe a few meters away from me a dark matter blogger is writing on his dark matter computer about how weird it would be if there was a light matter person he couldn?t see right next to him.

This is sort of how I feel about conservatives.

I don?t mean the sort of light-matter conservatives who go around complaining about Big Government and occasionally voting for Romney. I see those guys all the time. What I mean is - well, take creationists. According to Gallup polls, about 46% of Americans are creationists. Not just in the sense of believing God helped guide evolution. I mean they think evolution is a vile atheist lie and God created humans exactly as they exist right now. That's half the country.

And I don?t have a single one of those people in my social circle. It's not because I?m deliberately avoiding them; I?m pretty live-and-let-live politically, I wouldn?t ostracize someone just for some weird beliefs. And yet, even though I probably know about a hundred fifty people, I am pretty confident that not one of them is creationist. Odds of this happening by chance? 1/2^150 = 1/10^45 = approximately the chance of picking a particular atom if you are randomly selecting among all the atoms on Earth.

About forty percent of Americans want to ban gay marriage. I think if I really stretch it, maybe ten of my top hundred fifty friends might fall into this group. This is less astronomically unlikely; the odds are a mere one to one hundred quintillion against.

People like to talk about social bubbles, but that doesn?t even begin to cover one hundred quintillion. The only metaphor that seems really appropriate is the bizarre dark matter world.

I live in a Republican congressional district in a state with a Republican governor. The conservatives are definitely out there. They drive on the same roads as I do, live in the same neighborhoods. But they might as well be made of dark matter. I never meet them.

To be fair, I spend a lot of my time inside on my computer. I?m browsing sites like Reddit.

Recently, there was a thread on Reddit asking - Redditors Against Gay Marriage, What Is Your Best Supporting Argument? A Reddit user who didn?t understand how anybody could be against gay marriage honestly wanted to know how other people who were against it justified their position. He figured he might as well ask one of the largest sites on the Internet, with an estimated user base in the tens of millions.

It soon became clear that nobody there was actually against gay marriage.

There were a bunch of posts saying "I of course support gay marriage but here are some reasons some other people might be against it," a bunch of others saying "my argument against gay marriage is the government shouldn?t be involved in the marriage business at all", and several more saying ?why would you even ask this question, there?s no possible good argument and you?re wasting your time". About halfway through the thread someone started saying homosexuality was unnatural and I thought they were going to be the first one to actually answer the question, but at the end they added ?But it?s not my place to decide what is or isn?t natural, I'm still pro-gay marriage."

In a thread with 10,401 comments, a thread specifically asking for people against gay marriage, I was eventually able to find two people who came out and opposed it, way near the bottom. Their posts started with "I know I?m going to be downvoted to hell for this?"

But I?m not only on Reddit. I also hang out on LW.

On last year?s survey, I found that of American LWers who identify with one of the two major political parties, 80% are Democrat and 20% Republican, which actually sounds pretty balanced compared to some of these other examples.

But it doesn?t last. Pretty much all of those "Republicans" are libertarians who consider the GOP the lesser of two evils. When allowed to choose "libertarian" as an alternative, only 4% of visitors continued to identify as conservative. But that?s still?some. Right?

When I broke the numbers down further, 3 percentage points of those are neoreactionaries, a bizarre sect that wants to be ruled by a king. Only one percent of LWers were normal everyday God-'n-guns-but-not-George-III conservatives of the type that seem to make up about half of the United States.

It gets worse. My formative years were spent at a university which, if it was similar to other elite universities, had a faculty and a student body that skewed about 90-10 liberal to conservative ? and we can bet that, like LW, even those few token conservatives are Mitt Romney types rather than God-n?-guns types. I get my news from vox.com, an Official Liberal Approved Site. Even when I go out to eat, it turns out my favorite restaurant, California Pizza Kitchen, is the most liberal restaurant in the United States.

I inhabit the same geographical area as scores and scores of conservatives. But without meaning to, I have created an outrageously strong bubble, a 10^45 bubble. Conservatives are all around me, yet I am about as likely to have a serious encounter with one as I am a Tibetan lama.

(Less likely, actually. One time a Tibetan lama came to my college and gave a really nice presentation, but if a conservative tried that, people would protest and it would be canceled.)

IV.

One day I realized that entirely by accident I was fulfilling all the Jewish stereotypes.

I'm nerdy, over-educated, good with words, good with money, weird sense of humor, don?t get outside much, I like deli sandwiches. And I'm a psychiatrist, which is about the most stereotypically Jewish profession short of maybe stand-up comedian or rabbi.

I'm not very religious. And I don?t go to synagogue. But that's stereotypically Jewish too!

I bring this up because it would be a mistake to think "Well, a Jewish person is by definition someone who is born of a Jewish mother. Or I guess it sort of also means someone who follows the Mosaic Law and goes to synagogue. But I don?t care about Scott?s mother, and I know he doesn?t go to synagogue, so I can?t gain any useful information from knowing Scott is Jewish."

The defining factors of Judaism ? Torah-reading, synagogue-following, mother-having - are the tip of a giant iceberg. Jews sometimes identify as a "tribe", and even if you don?t attend synagogue, you're still a member of that tribe and people can still (in a statistical way) infer things about you by knowing your Jewish identity - like how likely they are to be psychiatrists.

The last section raised a question - if people rarely select their friends and associates and customers explicitly for politics, how do we end up with such intense political segregation?

Well, in the same way "going to synagogue" is merely the iceberg-tip of a Jewish tribe with many distinguishing characteristics, so "voting Republican" or "identifying as conservative" or "believing in creationism" is the iceberg-tip of a conservative tribe with many distinguishing characteristics.

A disproportionate number of my friends are Jewish, because I meet them at psychiatry conferences or something ? we self-segregate not based on explicit religion but on implicit tribal characteristics. So in the same way, political tribes self-segregate to an impressive extent ? a 1/10^45 extent, I will never tire of hammering in - based on their implicit tribal characteristics.

The people who are actually into this sort of thing sketch out a bunch of speculative tribes and subtribes, but to make it easier, let me stick with two and a half.

The Red Tribe is most classically typified by conservative political beliefs, strong evangelical religious beliefs, creationism, opposing gay marriage, owning guns, eating steak, drinking Coca-Cola, driving SUVs, watching lots of TV, enjoying American football, getting conspicuously upset about terrorists and commies, marrying early, divorcing early, shouting ?USA IS NUMBER ONE!!!?, and listening to country music.

The Blue Tribe is most classically typified by liberal political beliefs, vague agnosticism, supporting gay rights, thinking guns are barbaric, eating arugula, drinking fancy bottled water, driving Priuses, reading lots of books, being highly educated, mocking American football, feeling vaguely like they should like soccer but never really being able to get into it, getting conspicuously upset about sexists and bigots, marrying later, constantly pointing out how much more civilized European countries are than America, and listening to ?everything except country".

(There is a partly-formed attempt to spin off a Grey Tribe typified by libertarian political beliefs, Dawkins-style atheism, vague annoyance that the question of gay rights even comes up, eating paleo, drinking Soylent, calling in rides on Uber, reading lots of blogs, calling American football ?sportsball?, getting conspicuously upset about the War on Drugs and the NSA, and listening to filk ? but for our current purposes this is a distraction and they can safely be considered part of the Blue Tribe most of the time)

I think these ?tribes? will turn out to be even stronger categories than politics. Harvard might skew 80-20 in terms of Democrats vs. Republicans, 90-10 in terms of liberals vs. conservatives, but maybe 99-1 in terms of Blues vs. Reds.

It?s the many, many differences between these tribes that explain the strength of the filter bubble ? which have I mentioned segregates people at a strength of 1/10^45? Even in something as seemingly politically uncharged as going to California Pizza Kitchen or Sushi House for dinner, I?m restricting myself to the set of people who like cute artisanal pizzas or sophsticated foreign foods, which are classically Blue Tribe characteristics.

Are these tribes based on geography? Are they based on race, ethnic origin, religion, IQ, what TV channels you watched as a kid? I don?t know.

Some of it is certainly genetic - estimates of the genetic contribution to political association range from 0.4 to 0.6. Heritability of one?s attitudes toward gay rights range from 0.3 to 0.5, which hilariously is a little more heritable than homosexuality itself.

(for an interesting attempt to break these down into more rigorous concepts like "traditionalism", "authoritarianism", and "in-group favoritism" and find the genetic loading for each see here. For an attempt to trace the specific genes involved, which mostly turn out to be NMDA receptors, see here)

But I don?t think it?s just genetics. There?s something else going on too. The word "class" seems like the closest analogue, but only if you use it in the sophisticated Paul Fussell Guide Through the American Status System way instead of the boring "another word for how much money you make" way.

For now we can just accept them as a brute fact - as multiple coexisting societies that might as well be made of dark matter for all of the interaction they have with one another - and move on.

Also realistically the idea that the world is being run by Satanic and coordinated pedophiles is really just a huge cope for the chaos of existence.

The criticism shoe was getting on her video from men was like:

this girl is a fake who wants every man to be a castrated beta male feminist commie like her bf probably is. She takes advantage of men like this. Do not listen to her.

Lefty women wnat to help men! Help men become good feminsits who devote their lives to helping women have all the power so they can make men their servants! Basically, we need to help men destroy men! That's the only way men should be helped. We women said so! - Shoeonhead

Actually shoe's boyfriend is a right winger and seems reasonably masculine from what I remember and a bit of an asshole. Which we've decided collectively means masculine.

But they sound exactly like feminists and the things they say about men. Probably because again feminists are on average quite masculine. So the idea of being feminine is threatning. These comments she got from guys aren't unique either this is frequent in online discourse.

Instead of accepting this right wing men continuously insist that all women - and afab people in general - should be feminine, have kids, and so on. Creating no space for masculine afab people in the culture.

According to the political compass fetish video the liberal left are into pegging, femdom stuff, male submission and also futa (Unrealistic trans-adj sexual interest essentially mostly hentai stuff.) Doesn't seem like that survey included feminisation as a kink option which is unfortunate because it would be good to get more info on that specifically. Regardless it still clearly trends in that direction.

And the authoritarian right are into well a lot of stuff honestly. They seem to have a lot of disgust oriented fetishes but aside from that specifically male domination and 24/7 power dynamics.

So I think right wing people are trying to feminise and control women and left wing people are trying to feminise men. Probably because their sexuality kind of demands that.

Not all women and men specifically men and women from these subgroups but also I think people push these preferences to varying degrees. I guess anything can feel like pressure potentially. Like just someone talking about it.

There was some tweet by of a tiktok by a woman who didn't want to leave Florida and was liberal and had decided there were two types of men. 'confident, attractive, assertive, direct, misogynistic douchebags' and 'kind, sweet, thoughtful, feminist, caring, and have the sexual prowess of a teddy bear.' so she wanted a direct, assertive, confident feminist man who can pick her up and throw her around [in the bedroom]' and when asking for that the responses from right wing men were all like 'that's impossible' and 'she wants a tall midget' I think that seems a bit limited. 'There are only two types of men' lol. But that's where we're at in general.

They're going to freak out when they realise there are femboys who are far right politically.

At least shes being honest. Many women have no idea this is what they've been programmed to want.

These liberal women sound like they're concocting some hellish chimeric hybrid like something out of Greek mythology.

Part macho, part feminist, part pornstar.

Well I know I am, but I think it's more Babylonian perhaps. Not the one she's trying to create but my own chimera.

You can either have the direct, assertive and confident part removed and have a [BEEP] feminist boyfriend, or you can remove the feminist part and accept MEN ARE MEANT TO BE MASCULINE, not little bitches who have man buns and preach about equality

Again this is very limited I want them to have long hair without the bun part.

She wants a man to peg

Tbh that sounds like the opposite of what she wants sexually.

And I don't know what the solution to this issue is. There's more segregation irl. Like the ingroup/outgroup bubbles that happen irl. But that seems impossible now because of how social media works. Not that entertainment was ever really segregated like that and it's always been liberal leaning as with all creative fields so that always triggered the conservative people anyway.

[Nyctophilia]

There are actually three kinds of men in the world:

Men who understand why women said bear

Men who are the reason why women said bear

AND

Men who couldn't care less about irrational and illogical things women say based on their emotions because they understand female nature

and 4: Men who are scrolling through twitter and keep seeing men bring up bears in tweets and responses to other tweets with no context whatsoever. Assumed some kind of weird gay joke.

Oh OK I see. Well Louis CK said this years ago:



I went through a phase of watching bear videos on YouTube a few years ago:







It's often bear families going in pools.

The view here is really great:



Some bears went into a chocolate shop to steal some chocolate on a show I watched once too. I think there are lots of videos of them showing up to shops to steal chocolate and such.

Cat chases off bear lol:



I like this goose vs cow video too:



Geese are kind of insane though.

I think feminists should watch these videos though it wasn't the point of the poll? Whatever it was of course.

The responses to the bear thing from men are not helping at all obviously.

Correct, but the people pointing that out, particularly the men trying to use this to argue that women are less intelligent, are failing the nail test. The women choosing the bear seem to be trying to make a social statement rather than seriously saying it's statistically safer.

Bingo.

I'm a feminist because when the bear discourse started men did not act dismayed about the lack of social cohesion in our society, they immediately jumped on creating very long threads about how women are silly stupid whores. This is why the birth rate is falling.

The female bears would probably prefer Human males I think. Male bears don't provide any support in raising cubs where as with Human males it varies and since most Humans are very social and caring compared to other mammals even male Humans often adopt cats and dogs etc and my male Human friend (yes I'm going to continue writing like this it entertains me,) who likes cats recently sent me a video of like a young girl teaching her two cats while they were sat in a chair:



Sometimes he sends me videos of toddlers etc.

Also male bears often kill cubs including their own I don't think they can recognise their offspring. Humans engage in infanticide too though but probably not as often. I think it's a big part of male bears reproductive strategy.

Can use Humans as a shield too:

For a mother brown bear in Scandinavia, few sights are as terrifying as a strange male. Adult male bears are known to kill cubs that are not theirs--and sometimes the mother that defends them. A new study suggests that smart mama bears have found a surprising way to protect their young. To shield her cubs from male attacks, mom just has to raise them near an adult bear's No. 1 enemy: humans.

"People fear bears," says Marcus Elfstr?m, a wildlife ecologist at the Norwegian University of Life Sciences (NMBU) in ?s, Norway, who was not involved in the research. But the new study shows that "vulnerable bears fear dominant [fellow bears] more than they fear people."

Female grizzly bears and Scandinavian brown bears move away from male territory after giving birth, often choosing areas far from the best bear habitats. If a mother loses her cub, she soon goes into heat, so an infanticidal male has a good chance of impregnating her. When researchers in Sweden found some mother bears and their cubs living near human settlements, they wondered whether it might be a reproductive strategy--a way of protecting their young from killer males. After all, adult male bears don't often venture near towns because humans are likely to kill them. If it was for safety, did the mothers' strategy work?

To find out, researchers from NMBU tracked 30 GPS-collared mother brown bears in south-central Sweden from 2005 to 2012. Nineteen of the mothers successfully raised their cubs, but 11 lost their litters to infanticidal males. That's in line with previous studies showing that some 35% of brown bear cubs in this region die every year, most of them from male attacks.

When the researchers examined where the successful mothers lived during the mating season, they found that they stayed close to human settlements, at a median distance of 783 meters, they report today in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B. Some bears stayed even closer. "They were clearly using the humans as a shield," says Sam Steyaert, a wildlife biologist at NMBU and the study's lead author.

The successful bear families also use clear-cut areas, where young trees and shrubs are thick. "These mothers select the densest vegetation, especially when they're close to humans," Steyaert says. "That way they can be very close to people, but the people don't know they're there," potentially minimizing conflicts. Every year between August and October, people in the region hunt and kill bears, often close to homes and villages. But bear families?the mothers and the cubs--are not targeted.

The smart mother bears seem to have figured this out. They stay closer to human settlements during the most likely time of male infanticide, the mating season. "It's surprising because it shows that female bears are smart enough to think way ahead," says William Ripple, an ecologist at Oregon State University, Corvallis, who was not involved in the study.

In contrast, the mothers who lost their cubs avoided areas with human settlements, roads, and clear-cuts, and instead stayed in areas with tree-rich bogs and forest. They kept a median distance of 1213 meters from any human habitation--exposing their offspring to despotic males in the process.

I'd guess after enough time this will start to domesticate the bears too.

This is a pov I haven't seen in the tweets interestingly.

Testosterone is linked to mating and competitive behaviour in male animals. Suppressing it might be nature's way of preparing fathers to cooperate with their partners and care for children, the researchers say. Although caring fathers are rare among mammals and most other animals, many can be found among birds -- and those bird fathers also experience testosterone dips.

Prolactin is another hormone linked to paternal behaviour in birds -- this time, doting bird dads have more of it -- and some studies have hinted at a similar effect in humans. Although we're only distantly related to birds, evolution may have used the same mechanisms to encourage fatherly behaviour in both animals. Understanding those mechanisms better might help us learn how fatherhood evolved.

There's a lot of weird Human behaviour that's more like birds. Male penguins for example are more involved with raising young. There's also a species of bird that have behaviour that's similar to 'fujoshi' in Humans where they're attracted by male birds having sex with feminine male birds. I always think about that because it's so idiosyncratic and yet it's something another species does and they're birds lol. I think there are other species with female mimics too though. But the suggestion that female birds were drawn in by homosexual mating was particuarly interesting. And there are multiple male morphs:

Territorial males are very site-faithful; 90% return to the same lekking sites in subsequent seasons, the most dominant males being the most likely to reappear. Site-faithful males can acquire accurate information about the competitive abilities of other males, leading to well-developed dominance relationships. Such stable relationships reduce conflict and the risk of injury, and the consequent lower levels of male aggression are less likely to scare off females. Lower-ranked territorial males also benefit from site fidelity since they can remain on the leks while waiting for the top males eventually to drop out.[32]

Satellite males, about 16% of the total number, have white or mottled ruffs and do not occupy territories; they enter leks and attempt to mate with the females visiting the territories occupied by the resident males.[33] Resident males tolerate the satellite birds because, although they are competitors for mating with the females, the presence of both types of male on a territory attracts additional females.[34][35] Females also prefer larger leks,[36] and leks surrounded by taller plants, which give better nesting habitat.[37]

This cryptic male, or "faeder" (Old English "father") obtains access to mating territories together with the females, and "steals" matings when the females crouch to solicit copulation.[11] The faeder moults into the prenuptial male plumage with striped feathers, but does not go on to develop the ornamental feathers of the more common males. As described above, this stage is thought to show the original male breeding plumage, before other male types evolved. A faeder can be distinguished in the hand by its wing length, which is intermediate between those of displaying males and females.[39] Despite their feminine appearance, the faeders migrate with the larger lekking males and spend the winter with them.[40] The faeders are sometimes mounted by independent or satellite males, but are as often "on top" in homosexual mountings as the ruffed males, suggesting that their true identity is known by the other males. Females never mount males.[11] Females often seem to prefer mating with faeders to copulation with the more common males, and those males also copulate with faeders (and vice versa) relatively more often than with females. The homosexual copulations may attract females to the lek, like the presence of satellite males.[41]

Also the singing is kind of like birds. And collection of shiny things maybe.

Very weird species. But not as weird as platypus.

Crows are actually very intelligent probably about as intelligent as gorillas and chimpanzees guess that explains the poems and mythology etc:

Dahlquist, a musician and handyman who runs a pet door installation business, shared a picture of the twigs on Twitter. "This isn't only generous, it?s creative, it's art," he wrote. It went viral, with more than 9,000 retweets and 33,000 likes.

But is it truly possible that crows crafted these objects and purposefully left them for Dahlquist to find?

"It's definitely not a behavior that I've ever seen before," says Kaeli Swift, an animal behaviorist who studies corvids at the University of Washington. "But it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if a crow did it."

Crows, as members of the corvid family, are highly intelligent creatures that make tools, recognize individual humans, and learn from one another. Wild crows are not known to create or display art. But they do occasionally leave behind objects like keys, lost earrings, bones, or rocks, for the people who feed them, a behavior that John Marzluff, conservation ecologist and Swift's colleague at the University of Washington, calls "gifting."

They use pedestrian crossings which is pretty funny:



They're not so great at keeping track of currency though:



This one goes for walks with this woman lol:



There's a stereotype about magpies stealing stuff:



But I think that's a myth and they're apparently scared of shiny objects lol.

[Nyctophilia]

It's Star Wars day.







I'm actually more into Auralnauts fan videos than the actual Star Wars films.



Creepio is my favourite character though of course.