"Star Trek" was always groundbreaking in diverse casting and pushing the boundaries; the original series had a pointedly multinational crew without people of color being stereotyped, and most famously even interracial kisses were featured on occasion. The next generation was not quite so daring when it premiered in 1987,One form of representation not already explored in the original series was absent, however: gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender people.It is a bit weird. It was certainly relatively normal to explore stuff like that in science fiction in general, though maybe not on TV as much until further into the 90s. I mean Ursula K Le Guin's work The Left Hand of Darkness wasn't about LGBT people or aliens but explored gender and sexuality:Still, an LGBT character could have been introduced to the main cast at any time, yet seven seasons of "The Next Generation" passed without any such representation being included. [...] Clear to 2005, when Star Trek went off the airwaves for the first time since before "Encounter at Farpoint" in 1987, there was no LGBT representation at all. Retrospectives attribute this to Rick Berman's influence as showrunner for the vast majority of this time period; apparently he did not wish there to be LGBT characters, thus making this entire era of Star Trek far more conservative than it had any right to be.
I'm sure they did explore this a bit in TNG although maybe it was a later series? I remember some episode where a character changed gender at one point (not Human,) and another character who was in love with them explained that they couldn't continue to reciprocate because essentially Humans weren't enligetened enough to see past gender but maybe one day would be or something like that.The Left Hand of Darkness was among the first books in the genre now known as feminist science fiction and is described as the most famous examination of androgyny in science fiction.[8] A major theme of the novel is the effect of sex and gender on culture and society, explored in particular through the relationship between Ai and Estraven, a Gethenian politician who trusts and helps Ai. When the book was first published, the gender theme touched off a feminist debate over the depiction of the ambisexual Gethenians. The novel also explores the interaction between the unfolding loyalties of its two main characters, the loneliness and rootlessness of Ai, and the contrast between the religions of Gethen's two major nations.
If I google it it just comes up with an episode involving Riker but I swear it was a female character so I don't know. This doesn't sound like that episode either in general so clearly they did explore this a few times but just weren't willing to involve actual Human characters...
I want to know what that episode was though I don't think I imagined it but everything I search doesn't bring it up and I'm really sure it wasn't this one though it sounds interesting.Riker enters into a dangerous liaison with a member of the androgynous J'naii race, who considers herself to only have one gender, a crime in J'naii society.
While the pair is charting the null space, the shuttle is damaged, and Soren is injured. While being treated by Dr. Crusher, Soren asks her several questions about female gender identification. While Soren and Riker work on the shuttle, Soren confesses that she is attracted to Riker and states that she has a female gender identity. Soren explains that the J'naii are an androgynous species that view the expression of any sort of male or female gender, and especially sexual liaisons, as a sexual perversion. According to their official doctrine, the J'naii had evolved beyond gender and thus view the idea of male/female sexuality as primitive. Those among the J'naii who view themselves as possessing gender are ridiculed, outcast, and forced to undergo "psychotectic therapy" - a form of conversion therapy meant to remediate gender-specificity and allow acceptance back into J'naii society.[2]They might have intended it as an metaphor but in a very literal sense it's actually an agender asexual world where being male or female is considered wrong. And ironically that's how it would be taken today by conservatives who freak out about pronouns. So I guess it's aging well?The episode was met with both praise and criticism from the LGBT community. In the case of the latter, criticism came from people who felt that it sanctioned the Spoiler: brainwashing therapy to which Soren was subjected, and others who felt that the creative staff abdicated their responsibility to explore the issue. Some thought the episode too timid, using allegory in lieu of explicitly acknowledging gay relationship, while others critiqued the scenario of a genderless world where heterosexuality was persecuted as the epitome of conservative fears.[4]
It's really going to bug me that I can't find the episode I'm thinking of lol but I cba to keep searching. Aside from knowing it wasn't part of the original series (which I never watched at all,) I can't say much about it with certainty or who the characters were involved were but I thought it might be a female character on TNG. This sounds similar but upon further research it doesn't seem to be this:
In the "Star Trek: The Next Generation" episode titled "The Host", Beverly Crusher falls in love with a shapeshifting alien named Odan, a Trill ambassador who can inhabit different host bodies, essentially making him a shapeshifter; this relationship becomes complicated when she discovers his true nature after he is mortally wounded.OK? lol.At a convention in the 1990s, Michael Dorn mocked the episode as being a ripoff of Anne Rice's The Witching Hour.[citation needed]
Anyway yeah I have no idea.
Captain Picard worked so well as a stoic, chaste, and, yes, straight type that I would never want to tamper with his sexuality much. Jonathan Frakes's Riker worked as a Kirk-esque womanizer a bit too well for me to want to change that dynamic either, [...]
Data of course barely even has a sexuality, and he represents a character arc that's straight out of classic science fiction: the confrontation between an artificial life-form and humanity. As such, layering an alternative sexuality on his character would perhaps portray it as strange or deviant in some way in subtext, and frankly is a bit too much representational baggage to saddle on the character anyway. [...]
Worf has the same issue: being a Klingon raised by humans confronting that culture at once as an insider and an outsider is enough to place on his character. [...]
You could portray a higher degree of bisexuality as something of a Klingon custom, and Worf could have indulged in it, but once again it portrays through subtext alternative sexualities as something weird and deviant, in this case literally alien.You know people can be disabled and gay right lol? Like people shouldn't see it as being 'too much' that's a bit fucked up. I'm subscribed to a YouTuber who is deaf, a lesbian, and has some other condition as well I forget. It might even be common since atypical traits tend to cluster for genetic and hormonal reasons. Like how a lot of people with alternative sexualities or who are trans/non-binary are also autistic.Geordi La Forge too already has some representational baggage, in his case that of disabled people.
Klingons are kind of hypermasculine so having a gay Klingon character would have been interesting.
So? The repsentation of butch characters on TV is very slim and there's a reason stereotypes exist because they represent a group that's common. The part where she was Spoiler: killed off would make it fall into the common Spoiler: bury your gays trope though.There's Tasha Yar, but making her a lesbian or bisexual would be just a bit too stereotypical for a (no offense intended) rather butch-seeming lady, and in the real show she was Spoiler: killed off unceremoniously midway through the first season.
Yeah OK I never really watched the show much besides a handful of episodes when I was a child and teenager and reruns came on TV but I think you probably could have made her and Tasha sapphic and then hooked them up. Or Beverly Crusher could have come out since it's kind of a common theme for older women who already have kids to come out as lesbians or bisexual like Elvira and Cynthia Nixon. This is in a hypothetical future that shouldn't care much too meaning some people would likely come out earlier although I think women coming out later is just as often because of sexual fluidity as concern about judgement.Deanna Troi being lesbian, or perhaps better yet, bisexual might have been the most obvious angle, but Betazoids (even half-Betazoids like her; for some reason they decided to make her half-human) are already stereotyped as being sensual.
I think that's also why they never wanted to cover the topic because it was impacted by politics of that time that wouldn't make much sense in universe and they probably knew it wouldn't age well.
I agree that Riker would never work as not straight though given it's a large part of his character.
Oh wait I just found another website so it was The Host episode after all lol? I found a script earlier and couldn't find that part but tbf it didn't seem to be the entire episode in the script:
I more took that to mean Humans generally can't avoid being superficial. There are bisexual people who also break up with their trans partners because they're not attracted to them anymore.Instead, Dr. Crusher was able to fall in love with a parasitic life-form and have a physical connection with the body of "someone she considered a brother" but ended things when the life form's new host body was female. Then, she blamed it on humanity's shortcomings, without acknowledging bisexuality. On top of that, the episode reeks of transphobia which, while perhaps more accepted in the 90s when there was a lack of transgender representation across media, was no less offensive and harmful. Many people in relationships transition and stay partnered because their romantic partners love them not their gender. And those who don?t stay through their partner?s transition don?t blame it on humanity -- they acknowledge they aren't bisexual, or pansexual.
Also it's not just about physical appearence but because many trans people's voice changes in a way that you don't necessarily find attractive or they change a bunch of other stuff about themselves occasionally regarding interests and such (I think that's becoming less common these days but historically people would try to fit in a lot more.) Here's a good historical example:
This makes no sense to me btw but I think it's something that's more common for trans women (historically anyway.) But if you go back to before the 90s queer/gay trans guys (who usually are more feminine,) didn't even transistion really. Nowadays trans guys are just like "I'm going to be 100% feminine [BEEP] you" and then have a war about it within the trans masc community like a post I made recently and then deleted because it was kind of harsh lol but I find these guys irritating:She stopped painting, because she considered that it was a job that she did like Einar Wegener, and like Lili, as a woman, with a new identity, she was no longer interested in continuing to paint;
I'm non-binary and I'm reasonably feminine but also not as feminine as some trans guys I've come across or that they are complaining about in some ways (I haven't medically transistioned though so they still hate me haha,) but it's still so pathetic to me when they turn it into some weird competition. Especially when they bring up stuff like 'I played video games that aren't for girls.' Who the [BEEP] hasn't played Fallout 3 or something at some point? One time I had a sixth form teacher ask me if I was in the right place and if I was studying fashion design because of my alternative clothing when I was studying a software development course. I'm white and phenotypically female and the class was mostly South Asian with a couple of white guys, a couple of black guys, 2-3 South Asian female students depending on the year. I generally find guys like this to be quite misogynistic (their behaviour contributes to experiences like I had in sixth form,) and no surprises one of those trans guys was gay either - it's a common problem in certain subsets of the gay male community.Yeah I know, plenty of them play [BEEP] like Stardew Valley, Animal Crossing, etc. And I've actively searched for other transguys with male hobbies and unless they're truscum, they very rarely have them. I'm not going to argue with you or anyone else though about male hobbies versus female hobbies because I know in 2024 if a dude plays Nail Painting Simulator then obviously the game was 100% marketed for cis man too even though we know the opposite reality. But ultimately this is why half the community can't relate to the other half because one half is actually assimilating and the other side are femboys or whatever the [BEEP] you wanna call these buzzwords.
I live in one of the highest and most accepting places for trans people to be open and proud. You're delusion if you think I've only seen these people online when I'm near two of the biggest [BEEP] capitals in arguable the US.Binary transsexual man with Traditional valuesA lot of transguys actively dress feminine, never develop any male hobbies or friendships. It's genuinely one of those things where you have to lowkey hold their hand and teach them how to be a man but they love being "boys" for some reason. The minute I ask another transguy half the time if he fucks with video games he looks at me like I just spoke Chinese. Yet I've never met a cis guy who I couldn't talk to about games for example.🤣 killed me.lol yes, gaming, the pinnacle of maleness.
Weird take. Yes hunting is male dominated. But in general [...] is correct.
Gaming absolutely is male dominated when you talk about the biggest and most popular games. Fortnite, COD, nearly all male.
The vast majority of female gamers play causal games on their phone, and even when they do play on console or PC it's games like the sims.
Nearly all cis men like shooter games.
Pretty much every cis male between 5 and 45 have bonded with other male friends over online shooters.
But it's really hard to find other trans men who like shooters let alone seriously play shooters. I've only met 2 trans guys that can go positive in my nearly 20 year quest to find other trans men to play COD with.
Yet every class I had, every job, every brother of every girlfriend, random guys at parties, dam near every guy has played cod or another shooter and the vast majority can go positive.Am I the only one that rarely sees trans women even being mentioned in this sub?
Anti masculinity definitely is a problem in the trans community though.Im with you im tired of the same crying over and over and I would like as a trans man have a place to talk about stuff, beers manybe, gym, hobbies but aparently "im too toxic" or overcompensating or whatever when I just like male stuff since im a guy and im not interested in queerness and other stuff
Plus I hate when the fools than ask questions cause they never grew up around males and have no idea and a trans girl gives them advice they have massive meltdowns. Like dude the ones than had been actually cool had been the trans girls not with teen girl drama like the trans mascsyou can just talk about gym stuff on ftm fitness
also who goes to any male subreddit to talk about? beer?
Progressive people do often have issues with either men and/or masculinity though but it often comes from negative experiences regarding devaluation of femininity among other things.
Like that guy said before:
Lol:So this seems to be the answer: the framework for transmasculine identity is that of existing as a shadow. It is banishment from any existing framework, giving trans men two options: either pass and assimilate so seamlessly that you uphold cis manhood in your attempts to achieve it, or be swept away and disposed of so you don't pose a threat. The former kind of trans men make up the large subset of self-described "truscum" and "transmedicalist" trans men, who view themselves as nothing but cis men embarrassingly born without a penis. These types often pass easily and transition young, and are very stereotypically masculine. The latter are, by definition, unseen. The closest thing to a figure of this type is the "Tumblr SJW" stereotype, who are more often depicted as AFAB nonbinary people than trans men. This may account for the proliferation of transmasculine people who, despite initially identifying as trans men and having relatively binary transitions, later proclaim themselves to be nonbinary in an attempt to distance themselves from patriarchy; the type of transmasculine people who scorn men and manhood while pursuing transition actively and presenting as male for simplicity. (Note that this is not to say that AFAB nonbinary people who transition do not exist; it is simply an observation on previously-identified trans men that declare themselves not men for clearly political reasons.) This is actually not necessary to circumvent patriarchy - on the contrary, it only reinforces manhood as concrete, oppressive, and cis. This framework, however, is collapsing. As more and more trans men assert ourselves and our manhood, it becomes more difficult to deny alternative ways of being a man. Patriarchy and manhood cannot maintain themselves without adapting to the loss of chromosomal and reproductive markers of manhood, leaving trans masculinity as the only way out. The realization of the shadow is assured; you cannot declare something imaginary forever.
I'm sure this fits in somewhere though I haven't watched this video yet (I just got suggested this video while writing this post):Vampiric transmasculinity is a joke or theory (you decide) born from discussions with [...] on the subject of these transsexual vampires. The main idea is that a trans vampire's bite would stimulate endocrine function, allowing the vampire to get hormones alongside whatever nutrition blood provides. What is interesting is that, while a bitten cis woman would not experience much abnormal from an estrogen-stimulating bite, a transmasculine vampire's target would likely be feminized. An excess of testosterone in the body is aromatized, a process which transforms it into estrogen. This may result in some form of feminization, like minor breast development. (This is what happens to Big Bob in Fight Club.) In the context of trans vampires, this means the targeted cis man goes through feminization, while the transmasculine vampire benefits from his dose of testosterone. On a broader scale, this is the future of manhood: trans men achieving masculinity as cis men lose it, in an almost vampiric exchange.
I love how everyone's insane. Except when I hate it.
It annoys a lot of people actually:
So anyway if any of those things are important to your attraction (interests, body language, vocal mannerisms,) it would be an issue.
You can't have a character that is both designed as a love interest for male characters and one that straight women will identify with. Not easily anyway. Sort of like how every male character men like is rarely the character on the show women tend to be most attracted to.Troi is already there to be a love interest for the male guest stars (as well as to have someone for the straight women in the audience to identify with). Crusher had a few romances with men over the course of the show, but deleting them wouldn't alter her characterization much.
Very unintuitive and counter productive for a species that somehow has managed to reproduce to the point of there being billions wandering around presently but there you go.
Having multiple generations would have gone over really poorly though it's not unheard of. Anecdotally I can think of a bunch of cases I've heard about including people I've talked to online and YouTubers etc. I think having a underage gay character would have gotten a lot of backlash too.Wesley Crusher is the remaining member of the main cast [...] It would be realistic in as much as LGBT orientation tends to run in families to some extent?
I'm not sure when the first underage gay character in TV/film popped up. One of the first I can think of was the film But I'm a Cheerleader but that was like right at the end in 1999 but I think it wasn't released in the US until 2000 and the UK till 2021.
When it was initially rated as NC-17 by the MPAA, Babbit made cuts to allow it to be re-rated as R. When interviewed in the documentary film This Film Is Not Yet Rated, she criticized the MPAA for discriminating against films with homosexual content. While the film has developed a cult following since its release, it was not well received by conservative critics of the time, who compared it unfavorably to the films of John Waters and criticized the colorful production design. The lead actors were praised for their performances, but some of the characters were described as stereotypical.